K&N Oil Filters - Who Uses Them?

[Busa@11K]

I used one the last time I changed the oil/filter on the Busa.  Well, I went to take it off and it was on there so tight that I ended up damaging the so called "nut" (which is just heavy sheet metal) so bad that I had to take a long punch and spear the filter to loosen it.

The filter seemed to lock on over time, and that built in "nut" can't really take much torque from what I've seen.

Anyone else find it hard to remove a K&N filter?  What tool do you use that gives you removal success using the built in nut?  I didn't have a 6-point box end wrench, and maybe that would have worked.  Will buy one for next time ... hopefully that will work to remove the filter without destroying the "nut" and having to harpoon the damn thing to loosen it.  

[ksann]

I use them on my Guzzi. Since the filter is in the oil pan, it is obviously slippery, so the nut makes it a breeze.

But, on the other hand, my filters gasket is always exposed to plenty of oil on all sides, so maybe that is why it is easy to remove.

Are you lubing up the face of the rubber gasket prior to installing?

When I had my 'busa I was using factory filters, so i can't comment.


Overall, I am really happy with the K&N filter.


ken

[kevin_stevens]

I had always had fine success with the K&Ns, until the last change on the ZX-14.  Kawasaki specifies 20ft-lbs+ torque on the filter, and I had the same trouble as you trying to get it off.  I stripped two flats off the nut with a 12-pt box-end wrench.  Fortunately a careful application of vise-grips lubricated with copious profanity got a solid enough grip to loosen it, but that's the end of that experiment.  I'm back to Wal-Mart filters, a cap wrench, and a 1/4 turn past hand-tight.


KeS

[Busa@11K]

Are you lubing up the face of the rubber gasket prior to installing?

Yes, but doesn't seem to help.  The K&N filter says to torque to 7 ~ 9 ft-lbs ... that's not much.  I can't get a torque wrench on the filter, so there's no way to actually torque it on.  I'm willing to bet that 9 ft-lbs is alot less turns than what the OEM call out of 2 turns is.  

Suzuki's use a 1 mm thread pitch on their oil filters, so they call out 2 full turns from O-ring contact.  When I installed the K&N I used 1-3/4 turn and that seemed pretty tight.  What happens is the metal case bottoms out on the engine seat, and any more torque beyond that really locks it on.

Maybe the way to do it is tighten it until the filter's case just seats on the engine ... that would essentially just be compressing the O-ring to full extent.

[Busa@11K]

I had always had fine success with the K&Ns, until the last change on the ZX-14.  Kawasaki specifies 20ft-lbs+ torque on the filter, and I had the same trouble as you trying to get it off.  

Wow ... 20 ft-lbs is alot of torque for an oil filter.  If you look on the K&N case it calls out a torque value.  It's in Nm, but if you convert it comes out to 7~9 ft-lbs.

[kevin_stevens]

Wow ... 20 ft-lbs is alot of torque for an oil filter.  If you look on the K&N case it calls out a torque value.  It's in Nm, but if you convert it comes out to 7~9 ft-lbs.

Yes, I know, and no idea why they want it that high.  Not gonna happen again.

KeS

[atypical1]

I put mine on hand tight and remove them using a socket. You don't really need to crank down on your oil filter.

james

[Busa@11K]

I put mine on hand tight and remove them using a socket. You don't really need to crank down on your oil filter.

james

True ... but a filter installed too loose isn't good either.  Leaking oil that could get on the rear tire is kind of a bad thing on a motorcycle.  

You're right ... it doesn't take much torque to keep the filter on and sealed.  The K&N has the torque spec stamped on the side of 8~12 N-m, which is only 6~9 ft-lbs.  That's not much at all.  Too bad I can't get a straight shot on the filter so I could use a torque wrench, but will have to guesstimate the torque with my calibrated hand instead.

[Hoss]

I just used the torque wrench with a scocket. Nice straight shot in with the 675, makes everything nice and easy.

[Busa@11K]

I just used the torque wrench with a scocket. Nice straight shot in with the 675, makes everything nice and easy.

Any idea how many turns 9 ft-lbs gives after initial O-ring contact?  What's the thread pitch on the filter you used?  Did you correlate turns with torque when you installed the filter?  So many questions ...  

[whoaru99]

I've never torqued an oil filter to a specific value and I've never had one come loose or leak/drip.

For me, it's as tight as I can get it by hand. But, then again, I can get a hand on mine and a decent angle on it - some may not be able to.

[Green01SprintST]

Screw a bunch of torque wrench misery!  Tighten until the gasket touches and add about a half turn to 3/4 turn, all by hand.  The difference in gasket crush caused by the variance in thread pitch among different manufacturers is marginal; remember we are only talking ~half a revolution here.  If you try half a turn and it leaks remove the filter, clean everything up and try again with 3/4 to 1 full turn.  It ain't rocket science.  BTW, Purolator Pure One filters are half the price of K&N's and IMO are a better filter.  They just don't have that spiffy nut.  

[ksann]

 BTW, Purolator Pure One filters are half the price of K&N's and IMO are a better filter.  They just don't have that spiffy nut.  

Agreed, but on some bikes, that spiffy nut makes it much easier.




ken

[atypical1]

And it can be safety wired for you really anal bastards...

james

[sprint_st]

Screw a bunch of torque wrench misery!  Tighten until the gasket touches and add about a half turn to 3/4 turn, all by hand.  The difference in gasket crush caused by the variance in thread pitch among different manufacturers is marginal; remember we are only talking ~half a revolution here.  If you try half a turn and it leaks remove the filter, clean everything up and try again with 3/4 to 1 full turn.  It ain't rocket science.  BTW, Purolator Pure One filters are half the price of K&N's and IMO are a better filter.  They just don't have that spiffy nut.  

+1    Used a K&N for the nut on my ST but the threads are cut very porely.  Took it to spec and because of the poor threads it still wasn't seated properly and had a major oil leak when I started the engine.  First and last time I torqued an oil filter. Tried a second one thinking it was just one bad filter and the threads were bad on that one too.  Now all I use is the Purolator Pure One.  If you do a web search there is a comparison of oil filters out there somewhere and the Purolator One came out great, others like K&N and Fram didn't do so well.  Those Scott lifetimes sucked big time.

[Busa@11K]

The threads on the K&N I used were pretty decent.  It spun on by hand very smoothly up until the O-ring contacted the engine case.

Here's an update with some tech info for other users of a K&N oil filter on their Busa.

I was able to use a 6-point 17 mm socket with a long wobble extention on the K&N filter by removing the plastic fairing around the oil cooler to get better access, and then I could use a torque wrench to tighten the filter.

I left the grease lube on the O-ring that comes on the K&N filter.

The K&N filter has a torque spec printed on the case of 8 ~ 12 N-m, which is equal to 6 ~ 9 ft-lbs.

Torque vs. Filter Turns Data
6 ft-lbs gives 1-1/4 turns
9 ft-lbs gives 1-1/2 turns

I noticed that at 1-1/2 turns (9 ft-lbs), the outer circumference of the filter's case is not contacting the engine case and has maybe 0.5 mm clearance.  If the filter was turned 2 full turns then the filter case would be contacting the engine case (filter thread pitch is 1.0 mm), but it would be pretty tight and most likely hard to remove later down the road.

So if you're using a K&N oil filter on your Busa I would recommend tightening 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 turn after initial O-ring contact on the engine case.

[Busa@11K]

Now all I use is the Purolator Pure One.  If you do a web search there is a comparison of oil filters out there somewhere and the Purolator One came out great, others like K&N and Fram didn't do so well.  Those Scott lifetimes sucked big time.

Anyone know what the number is of the Purolator One for a Busa?

[sprint_st]

Anyone know what the number is of the Purolator One for a Busa?

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterXRef.html
This is a good ref on filters.  The Purolator 14610 and 14612 both usually fit with one being just about an inch longer than most stock filters.  They fit a lot of bikes FJR, Triumph 955i and 1050 triples, R1's, ST1300's, etc, etc.  Guys on Triumph forums use them extensively as do lots of FJR guys.

[Busa@11K]

Look at footnote [2] at bottom of this link ... the ones that have 20 mm x 1 mm threads are what most Suzuki's use.  The link doesn't recommend any of the filters listed in Ref [2].  

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterXRef.html

I don't think Purolator makes a PureOne oil filter that has the 20 mm x 1 mm thread.  

[R Doug]

I use the K&Ns all the time, especially on my 675 because I don't need to remove any body panels to remove the filter w/ the nut on the end of it.  That said, there was one time I too stripped the nut on the end of my K&N and ended up punching a screwdriver through the darn thing to get it off.

Since then, I've learned one thing about removing K&Ns w/ the nut on the end of it... always use some degreaser and clean the nut off first.  It's worked everytime for me since then.