2-stroke enduro suggestions

[hobie1dog]

Looking into getting a big bore(450-500cc) 2-stroke dirt bike that I can convert over to a dual-purpose bike so that I can ride both street and dirt with.

Any suggestions or experience with these bikes as a DP bike?

I don't like heavy bikes, I had a XR500 Honda years ago, but it was rather top-heavy,,,I just like 2-strokes.

[Albie]

No suggestions or experience but I bet it would be fun!  

[greench440]

The last big bore two strokes were the KX 500 and CR500 but they haven't been produced for years.  Even if they did produce them, you probably couldn't get one licensed for street.  

If you haven't checked out the new big bore four strokes in a while, you will be suprised.  The new big bore KTM EXCs (450 and 525) weigh in at 250, not much more than the old KX 500.

[Studad]

I'd strongly consider the KE100.  

[garry]

Getting a plate on a two smoke dirt bike is probably close to impossible unless you live in a very rural state. I'd check with my DMV before getting too excited at putting lights/etc on a big ole dirt bike. I used to ride a Husky 500XC. That bike was a beast when it ran. Just didn't run very often.

[hobie1dog]

Been looking around and found the older Yamaha IT 465 bikes that came with tail light and headlight. I forgot about those bikes.  Also like the fact that it is air cooled so I don't need all that plumbing, radiator, etc.  The Yamaha MX400B was the most reliable and best running out of all my 12 bikes so far. ....sure wish I would have kept that one.

Found a mint condition, fully restored  1982 IT465 that just recently sold on Ebay for 1000.00    so that is what I will be looking for.

And 100cc is not going to be enough power for me.

[JohnWayne]

I'll just assume that price is no object:  Clicky

[dlrides]

CR500  Quite a few around in supermoto trim, (which I am lusting to build one). I don't know the process to legalize them, probably depends on the state. The CR500's are extremely dependable, I had four of them in my GNCC days.

[H2Orat]

  The IT was not street-legal: it was an off-road only enduro machine; not a dual-purpose "enduro" bike.  Just because it has a headlight and tail light doesn't mean that it can be licensed; they're not DOT approved.  Also, the electrical system has no battery (another DOT requirement), nor provision for one, or a horn, and turn signals and ignition key.  It was only certified for off-road use, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.  Do yourself a favor: if you need to go 2-stroke dual-purpose, buy an old (from the 70s/early 80s?) DT series machine.  Provided it's complete, you'll be able to register it with no problem, just make sure you have a valid, (preferably current) title.  You mentioned favorable past experience with a MX400: that was basically a stripped, dirt-only DT400 (IIRC, the motor was the same), and those can still be found at reasonable cost, price determined by the bike's condition.  

It's not at all uncommon for people to have distorted memories, good or bad.  I would guarantee that if you were to ride a 70's era bike, it would quickly lose it's sheen: suspension technology and frame design is light years ahead of what was available then, and though I'm also a big fan of two-strokes (having owned a series of them "back in the day"), I agree with greench440: the current crop of street-legal, real enduro race-ready, four stroke dirt bikes (KTM & Husky) are vastly superior, and deserve serious scrutiny.  Also, you'll be able to register them without any problem, and parts and service will be easier to find.  Fewer headaches all 'round!  

Good luck!  

[hobie1dog]

Yeah, I forgot about the DT400 and it having the same motor as my MX400B.  I guess I should concentrate on dual-purpose bikes.  I don't remember any more candidates in the 400cc range either.

I distinctly remember my XR500 Honda was a mutha to start and that was the main reason I sold it. The Yamaha MX400B always started on the first kick and was easy to kick over too.

[hig4s]

  The IT was not street-legal: it was an off-road only enduro machine; not a dual-purpose "enduro" bike.

Actually the old IT and the newer WR (up to about 2004) were sold as dualsports in some countries, just not in the US..  

[hig4s]

Looking into getting a big bore(450-500cc) 2-stroke dirt bike that I can convert over to a dual-purpose bike so that I can ride both street and dirt with.

Any suggestions or experience with these bikes as a DP bike?

I don't like heavy bikes, I had a XR500 Honda years ago, but it was rather top-heavy,,,I just like 2-strokes.

Don't get me wrong I have a 2-stroke KTM250SX right now and I prefer 2-strokes for dirt, but for dual sporting now days the 4-strokes are better.  They are much better on the pavement.

KTM and Husqvarna make full racing 4-stroke enduro machines that come street legal in the US.. the KTMs come in 450 and 525cc, both weigh in at 250lbs, And the Husqvarnas come in 250 (238lbs), 450 (249lbs), 510 (250lbs), and 610cc (308lbs). XR500s were about 270lbs.  

the last 500cc 2-strokes were the Honda CR500 and the Kaw KX500 both came in at about 235lbs and by the time you add a flywheel weight and lighting coil, lights and wiring. you are up to about 250lbs.

Even if you dropped back to a 250 2-stroke,, a few companies still make them. with the on road additions it would weigh about 230lbs, they start at about 215.

www.husqvarnausa.com
www.ktmusa.com

[hobie1dog]

I guess I should give more of an explanation of why I would prefer an older two stroke.

A friend with a new Honda 4-stroke had a serious valve problem and it was just out of warranty and they wanted 1000.00 or so to put a new top end on the bike.  I can rebuild a top end on a two-stroke in my garage in one evening for a fraction of the cost.

A used DT400(whatever) can also be had for 1000.00 or so, ready to roll.  All the newer 4-strokes are going to be really expensive compared to that price.  I'm only going to use the bike 4 or 5 times in a year going on specialty trips, so I cannot justify spending any more than that for a bike.

I've had 9 dirt bikes through the years and already know that I want something over 350cc in displacement.  I also know that the suspensions back in the late 70's with 7 inches of travel was fine back then and will be fine now for what I want to do on a bike. I'm not going to race motocross, this is just going to be used for fire trails, cow paths, purely recreational riding.  Besides I'm over 50 now and I'm just not going to be flying off jumps 15ft in the air like the old days.

[Albie]

I guess I should give more of an explanation of why I would prefer an older two stroke.

A friend with a new Honda 4-stroke had a serious valve problem and it was just out of warranty and they wanted 1000.00 or so to put a new top end on the bike.  I can rebuild a top end on a two-stroke in my garage in one evening for a fraction of the cost.

Well duh, Honda's CRF shitty valve problem is well known. So don't buy the POS Honda. Buy a good 4 stroke MX'/Enduro bike like the YZ/WR 450 or even better yet the KTM 450 EXC which is already street legal. Or buy the POS Honda and put in Kibblewhite valves. If you can rebuild a 2 stroke tip end in your garage , you can rebuild a 4 stroke one. Yes, the parts cost more but the labor is what kills you.

[H2Orat]

Buy a good 4 stroke MX'/Enduro bike like the YZ/WR 450 or even better yet the KTM 450 EXC which is already street legal.

Hobie1dog is trying to keep the price close to $1000, so that rules out your suggestions above (though I agree with you about the KTM).  Given his intended usage and budget, I think pursuing a DT400 sounds like the best plan; even then, he'll be hard-pressed to find one in decent shape at that price: they're becoming increasingly sought after by classic bike collectors, who also favor 2-strokes.  Also, I've noticed that the unfortunate trend with older dual-purpose bikes is to not repair lighting/electrical problems when they occur, but to simply strip them off and make them dirt-only playbikes.  This will make finding an unrestored (therefore inexpensive) street-ready trail bike more difficult, but not impossible.  

[black hills]

I guess I should give more of an explanation of why I would prefer an older two stroke.

A friend with a new Honda 4-stroke had a serious valve problem and it was just out of warranty and they wanted 1000.00 or so to put a new top end on the bike.  I can rebuild a top end on a two-stroke in my garage in one evening for a fraction of the cost.

A used DT400(whatever) can also be had for 1000.00 or so, ready to roll.  All the newer 4-strokes are going to be really expensive compared to that price.  I'm only going to use the bike 4 or 5 times in a year going on specialty trips, so I cannot justify spending any more than that for a bike.

I've had 9 dirt bikes through the years and already know that I want something over 350cc in displacement.  I also know that the suspensions back in the late 70's with 7 inches of travel was fine back then and will be fine now for what I want to do on a bike. I'm not going to race motocross, this is just going to be used for fire trails, cow paths, purely recreational riding.  Besides I'm over 50 now and I'm just not going to be flying off jumps 15ft in the air like the old days.

CRF450's are well know for valve problems. Stay away from them and you should be fine with a 4 stroke. I too prefer 2 strokes and if you really want one look for a KTM300exc. not quite big bore power, but very nice and much more controlable in the dirt. They sold street legal versions in other countries so all the parts should be available to convert it. They also made a 360, but I'm not sure for how many years? Good luck.

P.S. for what you want I would seriously consider a KTM520.

[hig4s]

I guess I should give more of an explanation of why I would prefer an older two stroke.

A friend with a new Honda 4-stroke had a serious valve problem and it was just out of warranty and they wanted 1000.00 or so to put a new top end on the bike.  I can rebuild a top end on a two-stroke in my garage in one evening for a fraction of the cost.

A used DT400(whatever) can also be had for 1000.00 or so, ready to roll.  All the newer 4-strokes are going to be really expensive compared to that price.  I'm only going to use the bike 4 or 5 times in a year going on specialty trips, so I cannot justify spending any more than that for a bike.

I've had 9 dirt bikes through the years and already know that I want something over 350cc in displacement.  I also know that the suspensions back in the late 70's with 7 inches of travel was fine back then and will be fine now for what I want to do on a bike. I'm not going to race motocross, this is just going to be used for fire trails, cow paths, purely recreational riding.  Besides I'm over 50 now and I'm just not going to be flying off jumps 15ft in the air like the old days.

Truthfully 4-strokes are not that much harder to do a top end on,, and yes they cost more but less than half what a dealer will charge, If you can do a 2-stroke in a day, you should be able to do a 4-stroke over a weekend.

But price,, yep, you have to go a little older for that, the real problem is most places it is very hard to impossible to make any 2-stroke street legal.  Also modern 450 4-strokes make tons more hp than the old XR500 you talk about, it was about 38hp, XR400s were 32hp.. Modern 125 2-strokes make about 35hp. Modern 250 4-strokes make about 39hp, Modern 250 2-strokes make from 46 to 50hp. The 450s make about 52 to 55hp,, the old KX500 made 56hp and the CR500 made 60hp. The difference between older trail and dual-sport 4-stroke bikes, and modern 4-stroke racing engines is night and day..

And I to am now over 50, and no longer do and big jumps, I find it hard to believe you would consider an old school bike with 7 inches of travel acceptable after riding anything modern.. I mean, both my street bikes have over 5 inches of travel.

If you are really sure you want a big bore two stroke,, look for a 96 KX500, you should be able to find one in decent shape for about $1500. Add a flywheel weight to tame the beast and go from there.

[hobie1dog]

Latest developement  I was talking about used dirt bikes at work and one of the guys says that he has a 96 Honda CR250 that he wants 500.00 for because it lost the spark and he doesn't want to mess with it, so I'm going over tomorrow and take a look at it.  I have an enclosed trailer so I could always start out with this and for this price keep it as an extra bike.

[knobby]

Hey...going back to your original question...if you do really in fact want big bore 2-stroke for DP, I think you should try the CR500. It will cost you a few bucks, but the finished project would be nice. I've been considering that for a while with mine. I have a CR500 motor in a 2001 CR250 frame, and I love it. I have no problem taking on the trails here with a 13oz flywheel weight, and quiet spark arrestor. All I need is the lighting kit, and make it pass an inspection, and I'd be good to go. Ease would also depend on the state your doing this in of course.  You may be able to find some info on CR500RIDERS.COM website, but I suggest browsing only, as the site is kind of strict on the rules of actually posting. If you don't own a CR500, they don't let you post. Otherwise, very informative on anything regarding the CR500.  I still may do it to mine someday, but I'm spending the $$$ elsewhere planning for a wedding.  

[hobie1dog]

knobby:  thanks for the information.  Sounds like a great plan.  I did see an Ebay auction where a 500 motor was put in a 250 chassis.