2-stroke enduro suggestions

[hobie1dog]

Looking into getting a big bore(450-500cc) 2-stroke dirt bike that I can convert over to a dual-purpose bike so that I can ride both street and dirt with.

Any suggestions or experience with these bikes as a DP bike?

I don't like heavy bikes, I had a XR500 Honda years ago, but it was rather top-heavy,,,I just like 2-strokes.

[Albie]

No suggestions or experience but I bet it would be fun!  

[greench440]

The last big bore two strokes were the KX 500 and CR500 but they haven't been produced for years.  Even if they did produce them, you probably couldn't get one licensed for street.  

If you haven't checked out the new big bore four strokes in a while, you will be suprised.  The new big bore KTM EXCs (450 and 525) weigh in at 250, not much more than the old KX 500.

[Studad]

I'd strongly consider the KE100.  

[garry]

Getting a plate on a two smoke dirt bike is probably close to impossible unless you live in a very rural state. I'd check with my DMV before getting too excited at putting lights/etc on a big ole dirt bike. I used to ride a Husky 500XC. That bike was a beast when it ran. Just didn't run very often.

[hobie1dog]

Been looking around and found the older Yamaha IT 465 bikes that came with tail light and headlight. I forgot about those bikes.  Also like the fact that it is air cooled so I don't need all that plumbing, radiator, etc.  The Yamaha MX400B was the most reliable and best running out of all my 12 bikes so far. ....sure wish I would have kept that one.

Found a mint condition, fully restored  1982 IT465 that just recently sold on Ebay for 1000.00    so that is what I will be looking for.

And 100cc is not going to be enough power for me.

[JohnWayne]

I'll just assume that price is no object:  Clicky

[dlrides]

CR500  Quite a few around in supermoto trim, (which I am lusting to build one). I don't know the process to legalize them, probably depends on the state. The CR500's are extremely dependable, I had four of them in my GNCC days.

[H2Orat]

  The IT was not street-legal: it was an off-road only enduro machine; not a dual-purpose "enduro" bike.  Just because it has a headlight and tail light doesn't mean that it can be licensed; they're not DOT approved.  Also, the electrical system has no battery (another DOT requirement), nor provision for one, or a horn, and turn signals and ignition key.  It was only certified for off-road use, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.  Do yourself a favor: if you need to go 2-stroke dual-purpose, buy an old (from the 70s/early 80s?) DT series machine.  Provided it's complete, you'll be able to register it with no problem, just make sure you have a valid, (preferably current) title.  You mentioned favorable past experience with a MX400: that was basically a stripped, dirt-only DT400 (IIRC, the motor was the same), and those can still be found at reasonable cost, price determined by the bike's condition.  

It's not at all uncommon for people to have distorted memories, good or bad.  I would guarantee that if you were to ride a 70's era bike, it would quickly lose it's sheen: suspension technology and frame design is light years ahead of what was available then, and though I'm also a big fan of two-strokes (having owned a series of them "back in the day"), I agree with greench440: the current crop of street-legal, real enduro race-ready, four stroke dirt bikes (KTM & Husky) are vastly superior, and deserve serious scrutiny.  Also, you'll be able to register them without any problem, and parts and service will be easier to find.  Fewer headaches all 'round!  

Good luck!  

[hobie1dog]

Yeah, I forgot about the DT400 and it having the same motor as my MX400B.  I guess I should concentrate on dual-purpose bikes.  I don't remember any more candidates in the 400cc range either.

I distinctly remember my XR500 Honda was a mutha to start and that was the main reason I sold it. The Yamaha MX400B always started on the first kick and was easy to kick over too.

[hig4s]

  The IT was not street-legal: it was an off-road only enduro machine; not a dual-purpose "enduro" bike.

Actually the old IT and the newer WR (up to about 2004) were sold as dualsports in some countries, just not in the US..  

[hig4s]

Looking into getting a big bore(450-500cc) 2-stroke dirt bike that I can convert over to a dual-purpose bike so that I can ride both street and dirt with.

Any suggestions or experience with these bikes as a DP bike?

I don't like heavy bikes, I had a XR500 Honda years ago, but it was rather top-heavy,,,I just like 2-strokes.

Don't get me wrong I have a 2-stroke KTM250SX right now and I prefer 2-strokes for dirt, but for dual sporting now days the 4-strokes are better.  They are much better on the pavement.

KTM and Husqvarna make full racing 4-stroke enduro machines that come street legal in the US.. the KTMs come in 450 and 525cc, both weigh in at 250lbs, And the Husqvarnas come in 250 (238lbs), 450 (249lbs), 510 (250lbs), and 610cc (308lbs). XR500s were about 270lbs.  

the last 500cc 2-strokes were the Honda CR500 and the Kaw KX500 both came in at about 235lbs and by the time you add a flywheel weight and lighting coil, lights and wiring. you are up to about 250lbs.

Even if you dropped back to a 250 2-stroke,, a few companies still make them. with the on road additions it would weigh about 230lbs, they start at about 215.

www.husqvarnausa.com
www.ktmusa.com

[hobie1dog]

I guess I should give more of an explanation of why I would prefer an older two stroke.

A friend with a new Honda 4-stroke had a serious valve problem and it was just out of warranty and they wanted 1000.00 or so to put a new top end on the bike.  I can rebuild a top end on a two-stroke in my garage in one evening for a fraction of the cost.

A used DT400(whatever) can also be had for 1000.00 or so, ready to roll.  All the newer 4-strokes are going to be really expensive compared to that price.  I'm only going to use the bike 4 or 5 times in a year going on specialty trips, so I cannot justify spending any more than that for a bike.

I've had 9 dirt bikes through the years and already know that I want something over 350cc in displacement.  I also know that the suspensions back in the late 70's with 7 inches of travel was fine back then and will be fine now for what I want to do on a bike. I'm not going to race motocross, this is just going to be used for fire trails, cow paths, purely recreational riding.  Besides I'm over 50 now and I'm just not going to be flying off jumps 15ft in the air like the old days.

[Albie]

I guess I should give more of an explanation of why I would prefer an older two stroke.

A friend with a new Honda 4-stroke had a serious valve problem and it was just out of warranty and they wanted 1000.00 or so to put a new top end on the bike.  I can rebuild a top end on a two-stroke in my garage in one evening for a fraction of the cost.

Well duh, Honda's CRF shitty valve problem is well known. So don't buy the POS Honda. Buy a good 4 stroke MX'/Enduro bike like the YZ/WR 450 or even better yet the KTM 450 EXC which is already street legal. Or buy the POS Honda and put in Kibblewhite valves. If you can rebuild a 2 stroke tip end in your garage , you can rebuild a 4 stroke one. Yes, the parts cost more but the labor is what kills you.

[H2Orat]

Buy a good 4 stroke MX'/Enduro bike like the YZ/WR 450 or even better yet the KTM 450 EXC which is already street legal.

Hobie1dog is trying to keep the price close to $1000, so that rules out your suggestions above (though I agree with you about the KTM).  Given his intended usage and budget, I think pursuing a DT400 sounds like the best plan; even then, he'll be hard-pressed to find one in decent shape at that price: they're becoming increasingly sought after by classic bike collectors, who also favor 2-strokes.  Also, I've noticed that the unfortunate trend with older dual-purpose bikes is to not repair lighting/electrical problems when they occur, but to simply strip them off and make them dirt-only playbikes.  This will make finding an unrestored (therefore inexpensive) street-ready trail bike more difficult, but not impossible.  

[black hills]

I guess I should give more of an explanation of why I would prefer an older two stroke.

A friend with a new Honda 4-stroke had a serious valve problem and it was just out of warranty and they wanted 1000.00 or so to put a new top end on the bike.  I can rebuild a top end on a two-stroke in my garage in one evening for a fraction of the cost.

A used DT400(whatever) can also be had for 1000.00 or so, ready to roll.  All the newer 4-strokes are going to be really expensive compared to that price.  I'm only going to use the bike 4 or 5 times in a year going on specialty trips, so I cannot justify spending any more than that for a bike.

I've had 9 dirt bikes through the years and already know that I want something over 350cc in displacement.  I also know that the suspensions back in the late 70's with 7 inches of travel was fine back then and will be fine now for what I want to do on a bike. I'm not going to race motocross, this is just going to be used for fire trails, cow paths, purely recreational riding.  Besides I'm over 50 now and I'm just not going to be flying off jumps 15ft in the air like the old days.

CRF450's are well know for valve problems. Stay away from them and you should be fine with a 4 stroke. I too prefer 2 strokes and if you really want one look for a KTM300exc. not quite big bore power, but very nice and much more controlable in the dirt. They sold street legal versions in other countries so all the parts should be available to convert it. They also made a 360, but I'm not sure for how many years? Good luck.

P.S. for what you want I would seriously consider a KTM520.

[hig4s]

I guess I should give more of an explanation of why I would prefer an older two stroke.

A friend with a new Honda 4-stroke had a serious valve problem and it was just out of warranty and they wanted 1000.00 or so to put a new top end on the bike.  I can rebuild a top end on a two-stroke in my garage in one evening for a fraction of the cost.

A used DT400(whatever) can also be had for 1000.00 or so, ready to roll.  All the newer 4-strokes are going to be really expensive compared to that price.  I'm only going to use the bike 4 or 5 times in a year going on specialty trips, so I cannot justify spending any more than that for a bike.

I've had 9 dirt bikes through the years and already know that I want something over 350cc in displacement.  I also know that the suspensions back in the late 70's with 7 inches of travel was fine back then and will be fine now for what I want to do on a bike. I'm not going to race motocross, this is just going to be used for fire trails, cow paths, purely recreational riding.  Besides I'm over 50 now and I'm just not going to be flying off jumps 15ft in the air like the old days.

Truthfully 4-strokes are not that much harder to do a top end on,, and yes they cost more but less than half what a dealer will charge, If you can do a 2-stroke in a day, you should be able to do a 4-stroke over a weekend.

But price,, yep, you have to go a little older for that, the real problem is most places it is very hard to impossible to make any 2-stroke street legal.  Also modern 450 4-strokes make tons more hp than the old XR500 you talk about, it was about 38hp, XR400s were 32hp.. Modern 125 2-strokes make about 35hp. Modern 250 4-strokes make about 39hp, Modern 250 2-strokes make from 46 to 50hp. The 450s make about 52 to 55hp,, the old KX500 made 56hp and the CR500 made 60hp. The difference between older trail and dual-sport 4-stroke bikes, and modern 4-stroke racing engines is night and day..

And I to am now over 50, and no longer do and big jumps, I find it hard to believe you would consider an old school bike with 7 inches of travel acceptable after riding anything modern.. I mean, both my street bikes have over 5 inches of travel.

If you are really sure you want a big bore two stroke,, look for a 96 KX500, you should be able to find one in decent shape for about $1500. Add a flywheel weight to tame the beast and go from there.

[hobie1dog]

Latest developement  I was talking about used dirt bikes at work and one of the guys says that he has a 96 Honda CR250 that he wants 500.00 for because it lost the spark and he doesn't want to mess with it, so I'm going over tomorrow and take a look at it.  I have an enclosed trailer so I could always start out with this and for this price keep it as an extra bike.

[knobby]

Hey...going back to your original question...if you do really in fact want big bore 2-stroke for DP, I think you should try the CR500. It will cost you a few bucks, but the finished project would be nice. I've been considering that for a while with mine. I have a CR500 motor in a 2001 CR250 frame, and I love it. I have no problem taking on the trails here with a 13oz flywheel weight, and quiet spark arrestor. All I need is the lighting kit, and make it pass an inspection, and I'd be good to go. Ease would also depend on the state your doing this in of course.  You may be able to find some info on CR500RIDERS.COM website, but I suggest browsing only, as the site is kind of strict on the rules of actually posting. If you don't own a CR500, they don't let you post. Otherwise, very informative on anything regarding the CR500.  I still may do it to mine someday, but I'm spending the $$$ elsewhere planning for a wedding.  

[hobie1dog]

knobby:  thanks for the information.  Sounds like a great plan.  I did see an Ebay auction where a 500 motor was put in a 250 chassis.

[knobby]

knobby:  thanks for the information.  Sounds like a great plan.  I did see an Ebay auction where a 500 motor was put in a 250 chassis.

Just be carefull. Make sure it is done correctly. This is mine...not the prettiest out there, but performs top notch.
Just needs lights....someday maybe.

[tonyjuliano]

Husky 500...



My dad told me I was going to hurt myself very badly, he was right.

[Capirex]

Just be carefull. Make sure it is done correctly. This is mine...not the prettiest out there, but performs top notch.
Just needs lights....someday maybe.

Nice.  

[H2Orat]

  Not to be a spoiler, but you all need to put away the fairy dust!  Hobie1dog, you really need to talk to your state's DMV before you do anything.  Again, if it were a matter of just throwing lights on an MXer and running it through inspection, everyone would do it.  These aftermarket light kits are not DOT approved, and the bike will never pass current emissions (that's why you need to go with a vintage DP bike if you're hell-bent on going 2-stroke: it's been grandfathered in).  Depending on your state, you might have to get emission testing done, since your model was never DOT approved for street use; this will be triggered by the VIN: it will raise all sorts of alarms at the DMV, and open the door to serious bureaucratic scrutiny and many ensuing headaches, not to mention insurance companies!  Motorcycle manufacturers spend a lot of time, effort and money in order to get their products to comply with a long list of DOT standards and requirements.  Talk to someone who has ever tried to register a gray market vehicle; it's not easy!  You're setting yourself up for a potentially miserable experience, doomed to fail.

I hope I'm wrong, but people are leading you to think that this would be a great Saturday morning project!  You may be lucky and live in a state that works with you and facilitates the process, but I wouldn't bet on it!  

Hig4s responded to my comment about the Yamaha ITs not being street-legal: he says that both it, and the later WR models were sold in other countries as a dual-purpose bikes.  So what?!!!  Unless you plan on living in those countries, it doesn't matter!  If anything, maybe hig4s should ask himself, "Why wasn't it approved by the US government for sale as a street-legal motorcycle?"  It doesn't matter how the rest of the world treats a model; here in the US, if not approved by the Feds for street use, you're basically confined to off-road use only.  

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but someone had to say it!  Again, I hope you're somehow able to live your dream, and if you succeed, please let the rest of us know.  For someone who doesn't want to spend much money, this could become pretty expensive!  I just think that you need to go into this thing with both eyes wide open; at this point they're not: do some research before you jump into something you may really regret.  That's my .02, I'm done!

Good luck!  

[knobby]

I do have to agree with you there, but it's not "fairy dust" here in CT. Like I said, the ease of it depends on the state that you live, and hopefully anyone looking to do a project like that would investigate the required work involved first.  And yes, you can get a DOT approved lighting kit. A friend of mine here just set up his '05 CRF450R for the street/dual purpose with no problem. Just have to do the work to get it done right. And you have to do it right, or don't do it all. Some places it will take more work, and more money. This would be my interest, but not necessarily yours, so look into yourself carefully before jumping on a project.
If it's raining, I just put on my rain hat. Parade still goes on here dude.  

[black hills]

What are the emmissions requirements??? I would think you could easily get a 2 stroke to pass as long as you didn't have to run it very long (haul it there and back). run it at 100:1 and lean it out a lot. As long as you only ran it for a few minutes it should be alright, or not????

[knobby]

What are the emmissions requirements??? I would think you could easily get a 2 stroke to pass as long as you didn't have to run it very long (haul it there and back). run it at 100:1 and lean it out a lot. As long as you only ran it for a few minutes it should be alright, or not????

Couldn't tell you here in Ct.  There is no testing for bikes here.

[hobie1dog]

They are not tested in NC for emissions....don't have to have turn signals, only need a mirror on the LH side, overall pretty loose on the standards.

On my project bike I got it inspected with a mirror duct taped to the handlebar grip that the guy at the parts counter gave me so that it would pass.

[hobie1dog]

   Not to be a spoiler, but you all need to put away the fairy dust!  Hobie1dog, you really need to talk to your state's DMV before you do anything.  Again, if it were a matter of just throwing lights on an MXer and running it through inspection, everyone would do it.  These aftermarket light kits are not DOT approved, and the bike will never pass current emissions (that's why you need to go with a vintage DP bike if you're hell-bent on going 2-stroke: it's been grandfathered in).  Depending on your state, you might have to get emission testing done, since your model was never DOT approved for street use; this will be triggered by the VIN: it will raise all sorts of alarms at the DMV, and open the door to serious bureaucratic scrutiny and many ensuing headaches, not to mention insurance companies!

I don't think so.  the DMV can only go by the laws and in NC they are pretty basic.  As in lights, the book says that it has to be a bright white light.  I put PIAA driving lights in the duct vent openings of the CBRF4i bodywork and the inspectors commented on how bright they were for only being 1 1/2" in diameter.

 Motorcycle manufacturers spend a lot of time, effort and money in order to get their products to comply with a long list of DOT standards and requirements.  Talk to someone who has ever tried to register a gray market vehicle; it's not easy!  You're setting yourself up for a potentially miserable experience, doomed to fail.

I don't think so again.  I just went to the Yamaha dealer who did my inspection on my street bike to ask them if there were any issues with converting a dirt bike over to the street.  As long as it has a headlight, tail light and license plate light, brake light, and a LH mirror.  You do have to claim a certain mileage. I had just installed a Veypor digital gauge so all my stock instrumentation was gone.  The just wanted to know how many miles were on the bike.

I hope I'm wrong, but people are leading you to think that this would be a great Saturday morning project!  You may be lucky and live in a state that works with you and facilitates the process, but I wouldn't bet on it!  

Hig4s responded to my comment about the Yamaha ITs not being street-legal: he says that both it, and the later WR models were sold in other countries as a dual-purpose bikes.  So what?!!!  Unless you plan on living in those countries, it doesn't matter!  If anything, maybe hig4s should ask himself, "Why wasn't it approved by the US government for sale as a street-legal motorcycle?"  It doesn't matter how the rest of the world treats a model; here in the US, if not approved by the Feds for street use, you're basically confined to off-road use only.  

That's why I may end up with a Dual Purpose bike anyway.  I do know that it is possible to take a dirt bike and get it licensed and inspected in the state of NC as one of the guys at the shop did it.

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but someone had to say it!  Again, I hope you're somehow able to live your dream, and if you succeed, please let the rest of us know.  For someone who doesn't want to spend much money, this could become pretty expensive!  I just think that you need to go into this thing with both eyes wide open; at this point they're not: do some research before you jump into something you may really regret.  That's my .02, I'm done!

Good luck!  

[H2Orat]

  Hobie1dog, I'm happy for you that you're able to pull it off in your state: there's no way in hell I could do the same in Maryland (I've spoken with a local mc inspection guy, since I've long entertained the idea of doing the same thing myself: I did say I also am a 2-stroke fan!).  I realize that while the DOT standards are universal in all 50 states, it's up to each state to determine the criteria by which a vehicle can be licensed for street use.  That's why I wrote "You may be lucky and live in a state that works with you and facilitates the process,"   It sounds like NC (and from what knobby says, CT) is very easygoing in that respect; I only wish Maryland was!  As Garry mentioned, I think it helps a lot if you live in a rural state (though that doesn't explain why CT is so flexible!), and with MD's high density, the DMV (actually, here it's called the MVA) runs a much tighter ship, and according to Garry, PA does too!

Again, I hope you didn't misinterpret the intent of my posting: I wasn't trying to crush your hopes; rather it was to make you realize the potential pitfalls to undertaking what would (here in MD) be an ambitious project, and to get you to research it before diving in, that's all.  Knowing how easily you can convert an off-road bike in NC, I suggest you consider spending a little more, and try to get a more recent bike.  My reasoning is that later models were water-cooled, and as you know, they run much better at sustained speeds (ie. no pinging!) than their air-cooled counterparts; this would really help in the street mode, more-so than in the dirt, though it would also mean less hp loss due to heat buildup.  Also, the suspension would be much better, and probably, the bike would be lighter!  The downside would be that the seat height would be considerably higher, something you need to consider.

Let us know how your project goes, and post pics of the final result!

Good luck!    

[hig4s]

 
Hig4s responded to my comment about the Yamaha ITs not being street-legal: he says that both it, and the later WR models were sold in other countries as a dual-purpose bikes.  So what?!!!  

the so what is some of these bikes get imported by people with money that just want something different, and once they are in the US with fully street legal titles from other countries the local DMVs often don't question or inspect they often just issue a new street legal title for that state..  So,, 1. if lucky you may be able to find one here in the US for sale, or 2. if you buy a 2-stroke wr250 Yamaha actual made lights, turn-signals, lighting coils, mirrors and all the stuff to make it a real dualsport. Just a matter of finding a parts distributor that will order them.

[robrm250]

by the time you spend $1000 on the bike you will spend another $500 plus on wheel bearings,swingarm bearings,piston and jug bored,chain and sprockets,fork seals,street tires and you will need this on a bike the age you will be looking at.A baja designs street legal kit with stator around $500 to $1000 if you can find one for the year you are looking at and if you you want super moto rims and tires another $1000.I think you should save your money and find a used supermoto DRZ 400 or stay on the fairy dust and dream.

[imneverlast]

I own a Mint MX400B and it's Killer- No distorted memorries here, LOL  - true it's Not street legal but it will Fly, this bike was and is a champion.

   I also own a XT500 thumper, - i realize this topic is old but i seems that some of you posters have dismissed the great times that were had on these bikes back in the day as dilusional because it surely could not have been as great as you remember.

  I ride the beasts still and I can gaurantee you , those times do not end if you still have the monsters you remember.

  The XT500 is a Killer machiene for the street.

[shiney]

The biggest obstacle is the title. I think most all the Japanese mfgs. have off-road only or something like that on the title. I know KTM does not so it is easier to license. Just what I have seen.

[R.Markus]

Yeah, my 300EXC is titled as a motorcycle. When I get the clutch straightened out I'll get it plated.

In a lot of states it doesn't matter what the title says, it's dependabt on whether the VIN complies to something the BMV recognizes as a plateable vehicle.

[Max Wedge]

It really does vary state to state. Do some research and maybe check out some local forums to find some one that has done it.

It might be possible to do it in an easier state, and then transfer it.

Michigan is easy. Form TR54, get an officer to verify it, and off to the secretary of state. The old title said for "off-road use only" right on it. My KLX cost $700 to convert, but I added some stuff that wasn't completely neccessary.

[bikerider]

Texas is easy as well.

I recently bought this KDX220R already plated:



It passed inspection on Saturday. Mirror was removed for yesterdays ride.

[BentAero]

Interesting how this thread was resurrected from the dead -nearly two years later from it's start. I'm also interested to hear from the original poster, Hobie1dog, if he ever got it done, as NC is one of those states that it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to get a title and license plate on a 'converted' dirt bike. You'd think this was the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia the way the Legislature has locked down 'converting dirt bikes'

Even if you manage to 'fool' the woman at a NC DMV office and she gives you a license plate, the States computer system will kick out the VIN as "unlicensable" 4 to 6 weeks later, and they'll ask for the plate back as it is now revoked.

The only way to get a titled/licensed two-stroke in NC, is to buy it already titled from another state, like Texas, Tennessee, Michigan or similar state and bring that title to the NC DMV. Only then will it be honored. I have two friends who have done that. A Husky WR250 from TN, and a Honda CRF250X from Texas.

[H2Orat]

Wow, almost two years later and no word or pics from Hobie1dog!  Maybe it wasn't quite the simple weekend project he envisioned, and I have to admit I'm feeling somewhat vindicated...  

Cheers!

[hobie1dog]

I've bought 3 VFR's since I posted this up, so I'm still looking for the right bike.

[shawn and gwyn]

my first bike was a realy nice DT-400.. 78 i think..  spooky bike to learn to ride on.. but was alot of fun.

shawn

[R.Markus]

I've bought 3 VFR's since I posted this up, so I'm still looking for the right bike.

If you haven't found the right bike yet, may I suggest you stop buying the same one over and over.