A Narrowly Focused ABS Discussion

[Clive]

No, it's not yet another "let's bicker about ABS!" invitation.  I used to think ABS was an obvious choice for a motorcycle -- it's great on a car, so how could it not be great on a bike?  Then I began to critically examine that logic.

ABS Is Priceless on Ice and Snow.  No question that this is true, and an oft-cited benefit of ABS on cars.  But of course, motorcyclists don't ride in snow and ice, so this advantage is moot for riders.

ABS Lets You Brake And Steer.  Absolutely true ... for cars, at least.  But on a motorcycle, is there really enough front-tire traction to brake hard AND swerve at the same time?  When you're braking that hard, how much traction is really left for cornering?  Can ABS really permit you the ability and the time to brake, then swerve, then brake, all without hitting whatever it is that jumped into your path?  If not, then the value of motorcycle ABS systems seems to collapse down to straight-line stops.

ABS Stops The Vehicle In A Shorter Distance.  For the most part, assuming operators of average to somewhat above-average skill, this also is true.  (I'm going to take as a given that not all car drivers are experienced roadracers, and that not all riders are experienced roadracers.)  It's probably true for clean, dry pavement, and it's almost definitely true as road surfaces worsen (moisture, sand, gravel, oil, etc.).

And that brings me to ...

In the Real World, Can ABS Stop A Motorcycle In Time?  When you are moving slowly and scanning well ahead, you have all the time in the world to bring yourself to a stop.  When something pops out of nowhere and no brakes of any kind could ever hope to stop your bike in time, then ABS is useless -- you're going to hit the something that jumped in front of you.  And so, there's a range of emergencies where the rider has to straight-line brake AND the difference between an ABS emergency stop and a non-ABS emergency stop can be the difference between crashing and not crashing.

I'm wondering how broad or narrow that range is, in the real world.

(I should say again that I'm not looking for the same tired arguments about ABS, how one should practice braking and be alert, who's a "real" rider/biker, and so on.  I'm trying to figure out where ABS can be advantageous to a motorcyclist, rather than assume it to be so.)

[UFO]

If you don't like ABS, don't get it.
If you like ABS, get it.

[atypical1]

If you don't like ABS, don't get it.
If you like ABS, get it.

No shit. How many ABS threads does one board need anyway?  

james

[Clive]

On a non-moto board, I asked if anyone had ever had an occasion where they had to stop RIGHT NOW and felt that their ABS-equipped car let them stop in time, whereas they didn't think they could've stopped in time without it.  I got a lot of responses, some dealing with winter conditions, some with swerving while braking, and only a few with just stopping in a straight line.  The benefit of ABS on a car was clear to me, but the kinds of real-life incidents people were recounting didn't seem to apply across the board to motorcycles.  Made me wonder.

If you don't like ABS, don't get it.
If you like ABS, get it.

What if I don't know whether I "like" it or not?  Did you even read the post?

[UFO]

The ABS on my FJR has only kicked in once during a panic situation.  I was coming around a blind corner and came upon a pickup backing out of a driveway.  You know how cagers are.  He saw me.  Instead of continuing to back out at a quicker pace...he stopped right in my lane.

I jammed on the brakes in panic mode, ABS kicked in, I stopped right at the side of the truck.  No sliding, gliding, fishtailing, fuss, or muss.  I believe it saved my ass that day, and paid for itself in the span of the handful of seconds it was activated.

Could I have stopped without locking up the front and rear brakes in that situation without ABS.  No idea.  All I know is the ABS worked.

[sleazy rider]

The 1150GSA I currently own has it and so will my next bike.  Last weekend I had a "situation" where a garbage truck ran a stop sign and I grabbed hand and foot fulls of brakes to avoid a faceplant into it's side.  It got stopped with 5 feet to spare from 55 mph in under 100 feet.  That convinced me.  YMMV, but it's a keeper in my stable.

[Albie]

ABS threads make me want to go stomp on a kitty!  

[Stray Cat]

ABS threads make me want to go stomp on a kitty!  

Hey.... watch it mister....  

[cbsnbiker]

It's very simple: ABS on motorcycles helps riders utilize maximum braking without locking either wheel in straight-line stops.

[county]

All those fat pig slow assed Harley's should have mandatory ABS.

[thatguy]

Honest question.What occurs if the ABS malfunctions or fails?

[Snowbird]

No shit. How many ABS threads does one board need anyway?  

james

Hey, c'mon. Everyone is busy riding and post count is down.  

[Snowbird]

And that brings me to ...

In the Real World, Can ABS Stop A Motorcycle In Time?  When you are moving slowly and scanning well ahead, you have all the time in the world to bring yourself to a stop.  When something pops out of nowhere and no brakes of any kind could ever hope to stop your bike in time, then ABS is useless -- you're going to hit the something that jumped in front of you.  And so, there's a range of emergencies where the rider has to straight-line brake AND the difference between an ABS emergency stop and a non-ABS emergency stop can be the difference between crashing and not crashing.

I'm wondering how broad or narrow that range is, in the real world.

Well, you know... "if ABS can save even one life, then everyone should have to pay for it whether they like it or not."   

But, what if the life is of some worthless scum? I mean, who are we to play God?   

See the other current ABS thread for my real opinion. I think your question hits the nail on the head.

I'm personally glad my FJR has ABS because of the role I bought it for: longer rides when I might be tired, riding under adverse conditions, etc. Plus, it is HEAVY.

[shil]

ABS Lets You Brake And Steer.  Absolutely true ... for cars, at least.  But on a motorcycle, is there really enough front-tire traction to brake hard AND swerve at the same time?  When you're braking that hard, how much traction is really left for cornering?  Can ABS really permit you the ability and the time to brake, then swerve, then brake, all without hitting whatever it is that jumped into your path?  If not, then the value of motorcycle ABS systems seems to collapse down to straight-line stops.

Doesn't the ABS automagically use whatever traction there is?  Using the traction that's left over from cornering for braking, rather than the other way around?

[Clive]

Doesn't the ABS automagically use whatever traction there is?  Using the traction that's left over from cornering for braking, rather than the other way around?

I guess I just always assumed, but I'll ask, too: ABS won't keep the front tire from washing out if you hit the braked while heeled over, right?  I kind of blindly expected it wouldn't prevent traction loss, but I honestly don't know for sure ... and it's certainly not something I was going to try on my ABS-equipped bike.  Anyone?

See the other current ABS thread for my real opinion. I think your question hits the nail on the head.

I actually just posted in your thread.  If I have the correct mental image now, you stopped to the side of the SUV but, had she not stopped, your braking distance would have been about a foot or so too long (boom!).  And that was with ABS.

I just think back on my own thousands of miles and the few really close calls I've had.  Far and away, I was alert, predictive, and proactive (like most here, I'd bet) and ABS would never have been triggered.  From the crash reports I've read and the crash videos I've seen on youtube, the rider had too little time to do any meaningful braking before the impact.  (Ignoring the fact that the time to have done something -- slow down, be more alert, and the like -- had already passed.)  And then there's the bit in between those two ends of the spectrum ... a bit of undetermined size.



I'm bike-shopping.  My wife, whose approval I need for a moto purchase with family funds, is big on ABS.  I love her, and I also like both having sex with her and sleeping in a bed.  I already collected up the list of 2006-2008 motorcycles that have or offer ABS.  It ain't a long list, and frankly, the bikes on that list don't exactly prompt a pup-tent event.  Before getting into the viability of convincing her that ABS isn't worthwhile, I first need to make that decision for myself.  This thread is where I am in that process.

[Fourstring]

I'm bike-shopping.  My wife, whose approval I need for a moto purchase with family funds, is big on ABS.  I love her, and I also like both having sex with her and sleeping in a bed.  I

So ABS helps you get laid?  Why don't they just say THAT in the ads?  I'd buy three!

[Albie]

Hey.... watch it mister....  

All right, all right........  I'll go stomp on a puppy. There, feel better?  

[Clive]

So ABS helps you get laid?  Why don't they just say THAT in the ads?  I'd buy three!

"Just grab a handful!"

Although perhaps it's that I stop more quickly ...  

[DogBoy]

All right, all right........  I'll go stomp on a puppy. There, feel better?  

Hey!

[black hills]

Can't comment on ABS on bikes as I have never tried one. But in a car I wish you could trun it off sometimes. I'm sure it helps in most cases, but on shear ice it sometimes works best to be able to lock the wheels, get it pointed in the right direction, then regain traction. It's more fun anyway!!