Sport-touring tires vs. Sport tires - thoughts? opinions? experiences?

[sharkattack]

I currently have a rear D208 that is on it's last legs, and I was thinking of replacing it with a Qualifier. I have a Qualifier front and have no issues with it, it still has some life left in it. However, I got to thinking about my tires recently when I went riding with a buddy over the weekend. He's got the Michelin Pilot Roads, and has about 4,500 miles on them. The rear still has loads of tread life left, and so does the front. However, they are a sport-touring tire, so naturally they will last longer.

When it's come to purchasing tires in the past, I've gone with the "stick with the sport (instaed of sport-touring) tires for grip that I won't have to ever question." I recently read an article about the differences between sport tires (e.g. Qualifiers) and sport-touring tires (e.g. Pilot Roads). The general concensous was that unless you are pushing the limits of the machine, you will not be coming close to pushing the limits of a modern sport-touring tire. This was so because, as the article stated, sport-touring tires of today are actually "stickier" than sport tires of just a few years ago, yet last longer.

I don't mind spending money on tires, but I don't want to spend it unnecessarily, know what I mean? My options are:

1. Just get a new rear Qualifier, and replace the front as it needs it

2. Get a new set of tires, such as the Pilot Roads, and have them last longer than the Qualifiers and still get more than enough grip.

Since a bike rides on pretty small contact patches, I've been buying sticky tires and just chalking it up to "that's the price you pay for grippy tires that you never have to question whether or not they're gonna hold mid-way through a turn." You guys that have the Pilot Roads, have you ever had them break loose on you? When they wore out, did you replace them with another set of Pilot Roads, or did you go to a sport tire?

All thoughts, opinions, suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,
S.

[garry]

I'm a fan of a sport-touring rear with a sport front. The front should be pretty well shot by the time the rear wears out and you get extra stick to avoid those pants-wetting front end slides. That said, I didn't care for the Pilot Road. Too mellow a profile for my tastes.  I like a tire with a more triangular profile: where the bike just wants to drop in a turn, not be pushed into a turn. I have not ridden the new Pilot Road (a second generation). Not even sure if they are shipping or not.

IMO, a Diablo Strada rear with a regular Diablo front is a hard combo to beat for SPORT-touring.

[atypical1]

I use Diablo's front and rear and love them but that was not your question was it?

The bottom line is that if you want more wear from your tire then you should use sport-touring tire. My limited experience with them is that they don't do it for me though. I like how sport tires feel. I like how they feel at speed and I like they way they turn. Yeah, I might not need all that grip but I do like having it and I like that they tend to be quicker to turn than sport-touring tires. Now, that is a generic statement based on a few brands and flavors. YMMV obviously.

Why not just experiment a bit with both types?

james

[Thundergod]

Metzler Z6s-- wonderful handling in all conditions. And good distance.

[dm_gsxr]

+1 on the Metzler Z6's. Just replaced front and rear. Last year's rear lasted almost 14,000 miles. While I do hit the twisties, I don't push it hard enough to break it loose and have the track bike for the stickier tires. I've heard about the sticky front vs st rear but am not 100% sure on that yet. I guess even then I don't push it hard enough for the front to get weird on me.

Just a FOG

Carl

[PhilBiker]

I've gone to full-on touring tires on my bike and don't think I'll ever use anything else.  I'm pretty much convinced that unless you're doing track days or riding at speeds that frankly are insanely stupid for public roads sport tires are overkill for street bikes.  I have yet to have any slippage rain or dry on my Metzeler Marathons.  I commute on my bike so the occasional panic/emergency maneuver is normal.

[TheCloser]

+2 on the Z6s!  

I had stock Dunlop 208s on my 2006 Buell Lightning, marginal at best,  and replaced those with Qualifiers and was NOT impressed.    They wore out at 2K and their performance was not dramatically better than the 208s.  

I decided to put BMW-K's reviews to the test and went with Metzeler Z6s and have had nothing but great things to say!  They stick!  They last!  They inspire confidence!  They look cool with the bottom of the elephant's feet being scrubbed!  

Unless I find myself wanting to do a track day, I have found the perfect STREET tires.

[1KPerDay]

IMO, a Diablo Strada rear with a regular Diablo front is a hard combo to beat for SPORT-touring.

The Pilot Road rear/Pilot Power front is a good combo also.

The new Pilot Road 2s are supposed to be the dog's bollocks. I'll try them next.

[ChuckBecker]

I'll third the S-T rear/sport front recommendation.  I happen to be running a Strada rear and Diablo front at the moment and it's like best of both worlds, unless you're doing track days.  I got tired of throwing out 50% perfectly good fronts...

[atypical1]

I'll third the S-T rear/sport front recommendation.  I happen to be running a Strada rear and Diablo front at the moment and it's like best of both worlds, unless you're doing track days.  I got tired of throwing out 50% perfectly good fronts...

Why would you throw out perfectly good fronts?   If you are running Diablo's front and rear (as an example) wouldn't you just replace the rear (or the front) as they wear? Why replace both at the same time?

james

[mcoyote]

My R1 (and its rider) loves its Pilot Powers. Will likely clear 6k mi without a fuss, which for me is a big deal. Awesome tires, on par with Z6's, IMO.

[av24me]

I love my Diablo Stada's front and rear, usally get about 7500 out of the rear tire and 12-13000 on the front, this is two up at times and have to say that I use the tires to the edge pretty agressively at times so traction is an important consideration when I buy tires but so is mileage, hate having to buy tires on a long trip.


I find it interesting to look at most sport bikes and find BIG chicken stripes on the sides and a flat spot down the middle, but I guess having the image and spending the money is more important.

[Windblown]

Here's the deal:

I can double the posted speed limit thru corners on a sport-touring tire.  I can maybe do a tad better with a full on sport tire, but other issues come into play which make it dangerous to do so other than grip, no tire is going to grip thru unexpected oil, gravel, or sand for example.

Now here is the clincher for me:  It takes about 1000 miles or less of highway use to destroy the profile on a rear sport tire. At that point the fact that it's a little stickier than a sport touring tire means nothing. It will handle like crap.

I like the idea mentioned above about using a sport front and sport touring rear. Never tried it but it sounds like a winning combo.  

[Kootenanny]

My experience with "sport-touring" rubber has been good.  My Firebolt came stock with Dunlop 207s, which I blew through in 3,500 km (that's Kanadian Miles ).  Put on Diablos; the improvement was instant and dramatic, and I was thoroughly impressed.  Not only were they far better tires, but they lasted more than twice as long, to around 8,000 km.  Still not satisfied, though, I next mounted Conti Road Attacks--these handled as well as the Pirellis (actually, better in some situations, like grooved pavement), and lasted even longer, to around 12,000 km.  Put another set of those on this past spring.

Next time around, I'm hoping to try out the Michelin Pilot Road 2CTs, which are supposed to use Pilot Power profile...  Till then, I'm quite happy with the Contis--they grip fine (scrubbed to the edge on both sides) and wear pretty good.

BTW, I'm another guy who changes both tires at once, front and rear.  Someone asked why anyone would "throw out perfectly good fronts?"  Well, the anser is, they AREN'T "perfectly good" anymore.  The center tread may still be there, but at least in my case the wear on the sides of the front tires was enough that I don't feel comfortable matching them with good rears.  Front grip is important, after all.  Had a friend who finally decided to change out the worn front tire on his Monster, and his comment was "It feels like a new bike!"

[jeremy556]

I get about 1800-2000 from a Power rear, 2200-2300 from a front, but I ride like a “squid.”

I have run a few sets of Pilot Roads and a couple other ST tires. Pilot Roads were just awful in every way. The front would cup so badly the bars would oscillate back and forth when turning at 50% wear, the rear would lose grip at around 75% wear and be like riding on ice, the profile from the start is terrible and you have to fight to turn the bike.

[whoaru99]

It came down to Pilot Roads and Road Attacks for me.

I went with the RA because of the sportier profile. I'm very happy with them so far, but haven't ridden on the Pilot Roads to compare directly.

I have close to 2K miles and the rear has a small but definite flat profile in the middle, still lots of tread depth left though. Seems no matter what, I haven't found a way to spend enough time on twisties to avoid or even out the dreaded flat middle.

[JoelCool]

I'm a fan of the Pilot Powers with the R1.  They last longer than the Z6s I ran, and provide amazing feedback all the way to the wear bars.  Continental R/A tended to loose their feel towards the end of life - I was never brave enough to make it to the wear bars.  I've currently got a (free) set of Pilot Sports on the bike and they are no where near as confidence inspiring.  That's ok, I needed to slow down a bit anyway.  But you can be sure I'll be switching back to Powers when these are toast.

  Did I just reply to a tire thread??????  

[1KPerDay]

I have run a few sets of Pilot Roads and a couple other ST tires. Pilot Roads were just awful in every way. The front would cup so badly the bars would oscillate back and forth when turning at 50% wear, the rear would lose grip at around 75% wear and be like riding on ice, the profile from the start is terrible and you have to fight to turn the bike.

Funny... I've run 4 sets of Roads and never got cupping. I did get cupping on the Powers near the end of their life. The PR2s are supposed to combine the profile of the Roads and the Powers FYI. Not that you'll try them.

[Mike-H]

I'm a fan of a sport-touring rear with a sport front. The front should be pretty well shot by the time the rear wears out and you get extra stick to avoid those pants-wetting front end slides. That said, I didn't care for the Pilot Road. Too mellow a profile for my tastes.  I like a tire with a more triangular profile: where the bike just wants to drop in a turn, not be pushed into a turn. I have not ridden the new Pilot Road (a second generation). Not even sure if they are shipping or not.

IMO, a Diablo Strada rear with a regular Diablo front is a hard combo to beat for SPORT-touring.

Big +1 on that.... ....

[Squareman357]

My R1 (and its rider) loves its Pilot Powers. Will likely clear 6k mi without a fuss, which for me is a big deal. Awesome tires, on par with Z6's, IMO.

I run Pilot Powers on my ZX-14, easily get 6K+ out of them, and I love the stick they offer as well as the turn in. Very confidence inspiring tires.

[burnergold2B]

 I guess you have to be more specific in what it is you're looking for?

a. More mileage?

b. Better handling?

    Tires are a monstrous subject which contains several sub-areas for consideration as far as opinions are concerned; pressures run, suspension settings, suspension mods, chassis set-up, and on and on. ie., simply changing your fork/shock oil can have HUGE dividends on both mileage AND handling.  Here's my .02 of experience with both a. and b.
Mileage; the best way to get max *mileage* out of either sport or ST tires is running about 39-42 psi front and rear, depending on manufact.. At these pressures the tires have a smaller contact patch, run cooler, wear less. Handling; learn your suspension settings and start  log book notations on which settings are giving you what tire wear. I'm not familiar with your particular ride, the '01 R1, but be aware that changing brands, going from Duns to Mich, will have a different tire profile and size and therefore change the handling characteristics.

  For ST I prefer the Avon ST45/46 run at 40-42 psi. I ran those on the ST4s @ 40 psi and would get around 9K out of a rear w/o a single slip and they are awesome in the wet. Also have them on the FJR. For sport the Michelin Pilot Power. My race bike gets Michelin Power Race, the PRC front and PR5 rear. Rains for the races are Pilot Powers.    

  How adjustable is the suspension on your R1?
 

[LicketySplat]

The Z6 is the same thing as the Diablo Strada, n'est-ce pas? Which I just put on my YZF and so far I'm happy with them, but they haven't played in the rain yet.

I've always used ST tires. I can usually get 8-10K miles front and rear. My riding style is aggressive but not squidly in the turns, conservative on accel/decel. When I've crashed it hasn't been for want of traction (except brain traction I suppose). Never had a slide on dry pavement.

It really depends on your riding style I guess. Personally I have no need for full-on sport tires when what I do is sport-tour.

[carlt828]

I'll third the S-T rear/sport front recommendation.

A fourth here. Except for an occasional sport rear (for a track day or special rally), I've run that combo for about 90k miles (yeah, I change tires a lot). I was running the Avon 46 rear & 49 front until I tried a set of Pilots (road & power). I get anywhere between 5~6.5k on the rear and 6~8k on the front, depending upon how I rode during that time frame.

I've got the new 021 on the rear right now and it's better than the 020 around town. It did wiggle on me with wet tar snakes once but I'm running a Power front so that could throw it's wet handling off (or so I'm told). I ran the Z6s once. I really liked them but the front wore with odd "peaks" or "crowns" on the side of the tread and the rear showed cords on me 120 miles from home without any (visual) warning. It did start to handle REAL bad when pushed hard in sweepers right before it gave up the ghost, I just didn't know what it was telling me at the time.

Personally I'm looking forward to trying the new Pilot Roads. I ran a set of 2CT's on a weekend rally up in AR and they were the berries. Only lasted that weekend though but oh what a way to go through a set of tires.  

Oh yeah, what type of oil do you use? Dino or synthetic?  

[TuffguyF4i]

My experience with ST tires on my F4i, VFR and XX have all been good.  My 208's where destroyed at 3k miles.  Thats crap... i don't have money to waste.

I went for the Bridgestone BT's ST tire, and it works great.  I've heard good things about the Avon Storm AV56, so i'm trying that,,,,to be delievered today.

[Mike-H]

The Z6 is the same thing as the Diablo Strada, n'est-ce pas? Which I just put on my YZF and so far I'm happy with them, but they haven't played in the rain yet.

I've always used ST tires. I can usually get 8-10K miles front and rear. My riding style is aggressive but not squidly in the turns, conservative on accel/decel. When I've crashed it hasn't been for want of traction (except brain traction I suppose). Never had a slide on dry pavement.

It really depends on your riding style I guess. Personally I have no need for full-on sport tires when what I do is sport-tour.

Yes & no.....pirelli (an Italian company) bought metzeler (a German company) so one would think they would keep a slightly newer/sticker latest & greatest compound on the flagship tire, not the satellite company tire

[throttlemeister]

No offense, but you say that like it's a new thing. Fact of the matter is this happened in 1986 so unless you are like 40+ years old, or riding old bikes with non-radial tires you have never even seen a non-pirelli owned metzeler tire design.

They are essentially the same tire. There are small differences, as metzies and pirellis are typically introduced about a year apart. And ALL pirelli motorcycle tires are developed by metzeler in germany. So metzeler is not a rebranded pirelli, but essentially pirelli is a rebranded metzeler.

[apriliabas]

Just put on Conti Road Attacks on my 2001 Futura. Very stable in the dry, even over Sheffield tram tracks, and fine in drizzle (stable at 90+ in the wet ain't bad). Not tried them in a real downpour yet. At £140 the pair, seem good value.

[GregS]

I've noted that some, if not most, sport touring tires have better wet weather tread than their sport cousins. If you ride in varying weather it's worth considering.

[jeremy556]

I've noted that some, if not most, sport touring tires have better wet weather tread than their sport cousins. If you ride in varying weather it's worth considering.

ST tires are also made to operate at a lower temperature than sport tires so they will be closer to operating temp in the rain.

[imortlfool]

I went back and forth between Z-6 and Pilot Power for awhile.  Then I found the BT021 - dual compound.  Dual compound is the answer.  Sticky on the side, lasts longer on the straight.  That is the ticket.

[carlt828]

I just came back from a rally this weekend. I got a chance to really push the 021 rear. It handled extremely well. No slip-n-slide whatsoever.  

[thatguy]

On the way to work Saturday morning I ran into this guy that usually rides a Beemer.We run kinda fast all the time and he's willing to do things in traffic even I consider risky.Well he was riding an XR650 Saturday and I wasn't in the mood for playing so I turned hard and took off.Went into a corner at way over normal speed.Dragged a footpeg on the Tuono.On Pirelli Scorpion Syncs.Well I have all the confidence in the world in these tires now 'cause if you've ever ridden a Tuono they have as much ground clearance as any full on sportbike,more than most.Nice drift on the exit but nice and controllable with an exit speed of 96 MPH.Which is wayyyyy more than I wanted but the Beemer guy did kinda back off.After he caught up. I'd do a track day on these tires now.Oh and this is two miles from leaving my house on cold tires.Might account for the drift on the way out.

[Mike-H]

No offense, but you say that like it's a new thing. Fact of the matter is this happened in 1986 so unless you are like 40+ years old, or riding old bikes with non-radial tires you have never even seen a non-pirelli owned metzeler tire design.

They are essentially the same tire. There are small differences, as metzies and pirellis are typically introduced about a year apart. And ALL pirelli motorcycle tires are developed by metzeler in germany. So metzeler is not a rebranded pirelli, but essentially pirelli is a rebranded metzeler.

No offense taken....but a lot of people don't know that.....oh ya....& yes I am over 40 & ride old bikes with non- radial tires .....

[LicketySplat]

Had the Stradas out in a little bit of rain and wet roads coming back from VIR. Maybe the roads weren't wet enough - no deep water for sure - but as far as the tires were concerned I didn't notice the roads being wet at all.   so far.

[sprintrock]

Like already mentioned Metzeler Z6's work great

[QKSLVR]

Can anyone give a review or opinion on the Dunlop D205's on a bike like an FZ1 with regard to wet & dry behaviour, traction, & mileage.

TIA and best regardz>>

ed

[Busy Little Whiner]

Which tire catagory is right for you???

I'm switching from my DOT race tires back too High Performance STREET tires after reading Sport
Riders shoot out where they sampled all the different tire categories to test how they stack up...
In summary

They gathered a lot of data during this test and learned a lot about each
tire and our own preferences for tires. Much of the objective data show
the more track-oriented tires to be superior when it comes to lap times
or speed,and certainly that is the case. However,on both street and
track that increasing performance comes with more of a requirement
from the rider. Setup is more important with the grippier tires, stability
and compliance suffer,and conditions have to be just right to access
that extra traction. Over 80 percent of our street test loop,the four
types of tires averaged within a couple mph of one another,a strong indication
that factors other than what tire you are on dictate your pace on the road.

Surprise No.1 for us was just how capable the sport-touring tires are,
especially on the street. If you're not looking for that last
10 percent of performance from your bike,sport-touring tires have
excellent traction and predictability and will provide thousands of
miles of use.

Surprise NO.2 was how good sport tires were on the track. Both
brands provided great,consistent performance,lapping an average of
just a half-second off the DOT race buns. They carded the best scores
on the street portion of the test and required little in the way of
set up to get comfortable with.

Surprise NO.3 was just how much the DOT race tires sacrificed on
the street compared with the sport and hybrid tires. Neither of our
riders felt comfortable on the majority of the test loop with the race
tires, and even though the tires have incredible grip levels and are amazingly
fun on a fast,smooth road,that performance is not worth the trade off
that must be made the rest of the time. At the race track the DOT race
tires are clearly a step above the street tires, and there is even
more of a performance gap than our lap times indicate-both our riders
felt they could go faster than they did with more set up time. Again,that is the
price that must be paid for great grip and steering from a race tire.
The final piece of the puzzle is this: To get the best performance,
you must be honest with yourself when it comes to choosing a tire.
They given you the answers. You just need to figure out what questions
to ask yourself.


SPORT-TOURING
DUNLOP D220ST AND MICHELIN PILOT ROAD
Rating Street: 78.7 Track: 75.5 Average lap time: 1:12.72

......Street v Track
General:. 7.7 7.5
Braking;. 8.0 8.0
Traction; 7.9 7.8
Steering; 7.6 7.2

SPORT
DUNLOP SPORT MAX QUALIFIER AND MICHELIN PILOT POWER
Rating Street:89.5 Track:87.3 Average lap time: 1:08.90

......Street v Track
General:. 9.0 8.9
Braking;. 8.9 8.7
Traction; 9.0 8.7
Steering; 8.8 8.4

HIGH-PERFORMANCE SPORT
DUNLOP D208GP AND MICHELIN PILOT POWER 2CT
Rating Street:89.3 Track:88.8 Average lap time: 1:08.97

......Street v Track
General:. 8.8 8.8
Braking;. 9.0 9.0
Traction; 9.2 8.9
Steering; 8.6 8.8

DOT RACE
DUNLOP SPORT MAXGP AND MICHELIN POWER RACE
Rating Street:89.4 Track:92.8 Average lap time: 1:08.447

......Street v Track
General:. 8.4 9.1
Braking;. 9.3 9.5
Traction; 9.3 9.6
Steering; 9.3 9.3

RACE SLICKS
DUNLOP KR106/108 AND MICHELIN PILOT
Rating Street: NAT rack:93.2 Average lap time: 1:08.23

.........Track
General:. 9.0
Braking;. 9.5
Traction; 9.9
Steering; 9.1


My Metzeler Rennsport High Performance *Street* tires after a Thunder Hill Track day...

[Thor]

In Minnesota/Wisconsin the roads are often covered with dirt, sand and gravel.  I've found that once a sport-touring tire starts to slide, it just keeps going.  I don't get that with sport tires.
 
Sport-touring tires usually have a much stiffer sidewall for heavier bikes.  On a sportbike, this makes the uneven roads punishing and can cause the suspension to get overwhelmed.

Sport-touring tires also have a different profile, usually flatter with less sidewall.  Sometimes that doesn't mix well with greater lean angles and bumps.

Give me smooth, clean, roads and it doesn't really matter much to me, but get out on real roads and I like how the sport tires handle.

I haven't tried the BT-021, so that may be one I should try.

I've been running Pilot Powers for awhile and I really like them.  They stick well in the rain.  Dunlops don't.  Metzler/Pirelli are O.K., but not great.  BT-012 were no fun in the rain.

[DFH]

In Minnesota/Wisconsin the roads are often covered with dirt, sand and gravel.  I've found that once a sport-touring tire starts to slide, it just keeps going.  I don't get that with sport tires.
 
Sport-touring tires usually have a much stiffer sidewall for heavier bikes.  On a sportbike, this makes the uneven roads punishing and can cause the suspension to get overwhelmed.

Sport-touring tires also have a different profile, usually flatter with less sidewall.  Sometimes that doesn't mix well with greater lean angles and bumps.

Give me smooth, clean, roads and it doesn't really matter much to me, but get out on real roads and I like how the sport tires handle.

I haven't tried the BT-021, so that may be one I should try.

I've been running Pilot Powers for awhile and I really like them.  They stick well in the rain.  Dunlops don't.  Metzler/Pirelli are O.K., but not great.  BT-012 were no fun in the rain.

Point 1.. Illogical. Put a layer of sand between a tyre and the road and they all grip the same
Point 2.. Not true. Sport touring tyres have the same load rating system as sport tyres, and its printed on the sidewall for you to compare.
            As for the suspension myth, as the Sportrider quote posted by Busy Little Shop points out Sport touring tyres are designed to work
            on a broard spectrum of bikes. Its DOT tyres that are the finniky critters
Point 3.. Firstly a 180/55 will have the same sidewall height irespective of tyre type as the sidewall of a 180/55 is always 55% of 180mm.
            Last year one of the english mags did a blind roadtest with Pilot Power Race, Pilot Power and Pilot Road tyres. Asked to comment
            why the all riders placed the Pilot Powers last behind the Race and Roads the head of Michelins motorcycle tyre division stated that
            the Roads and Race shared the same profile and the Power had a unique profile "to provide a quick turning feel to suit less
            experienced riders"
Point 4.. "They stick well in the rain.  Dunlops don't.  Metzler/Pirelli are O.K., but not great." All these companies make a huge variety of tyres,
            and such sweeping statements are plain ignorant. Sort of like me saying all folks in Minnesota/Wisconsin are bible-bashing rednecks,
            even though I have never even been to the US.

DFH

[PaintSniffer]

Z6's here.  Did 2 tank fulls of gas across Gaspe' at 145 in very heavy rain....then 120+ from Quebec city down south into Vermont....100+ all the way through Vermont into MA.......100 through MA into CT.  Amazing rain tire. As much grip as this rider needs in the dry.  I have a lot of suspension work done and prefer my ride on the softer side of the spectrum.  Front is kinda scalloped now after 6000 miles and rear has a slight flat spot in center from running at full GVW.

[tomek]

Plenty of answers from people who don`t even own supersport bikes.Funny.

Liter bike in less then perfect conditions ( 80 deg and sunny) will spin ST tire almost at will.I actually have Pilot Road on the rear of my R1(don`t ask me why) ,in the wet I can spin the rear in 6th gear .Even in the dry you can`t be very agressive with corner exits,or it will spin.BTW PR slides pretty well.You have to have very good throttle control to use ST tire on supersport bikes,but I would not reccomend them for those bikes,they just take the fun factor away,,,,,,,,

On the other hand ST tire ( Pilot Roads) works very well on my XX.The heavy weight alone will make them stick much better then on SS bike and I would consider using sport tires on my Honda waste of monet.They provide tons of tractions for this kind of bike.

[DFH]

Plenty of answers from people who don`t even own supersport bikes.Funny.

Liter bike in less then perfect conditions ( 80 deg and sunny) will spin ST tire almost at will.I actually have Pilot Road on the rear of my R1(don`t ask me why) ,in the wet I can spin the rear in 6th gear .Even in the dry you can`t be very agressive with corner exits,or it will spin.BTW PR slides pretty well.You have to have very good throttle control to use ST tire on supersport bikes,but I would not reccomend them for those bikes,they just take the fun factor away,,,,,,,,

On the other hand ST tire ( Pilot Roads) works very well on my XX.The heavy weight alone will make them stick much better then on SS bike and I would consider using sport tires on my Honda waste of monet.They provide tons of tractions for this kind of bike.

Good points all... dunno what 80deg F is in "real" degrees but on a cool damp day I can spin up a Pilot Road with a 85hp sports twin, let alone a litre bike with 150hp. On the other hand on a nice hot dry day, say 30degC, the PR will take full throttle in 3rd with the peg on the deck for kilometer after kilometre without turning to mush... And yes I agree the PR is a a sweet slider.

Oddly enough a guy in our riding group.. don't know him well enough to call him a buddy... happily rides a R1 on Pilot Roads in the height of summer.  

I guess the rule of thumb is if you live in a warm to hot dry environment with plenty of corners to play with then the gap between the ST and pure sport tyre is less than a cold and damp environment.

As you can see from the photo Pilot Roads keep their profile well, this tyre lasted me 7500-8000km ( about 5000 of them feudal mile thingies) and hits the markers evenly all round. The last 1000km it has lost its edge, both in grip and handling, but it is the depth of winter here.

Good news is to try the new Pilot Road 2 next...

DFH

[Thor]

Point 1.. Illogical. Put a layer of sand between a tyre and the road and they all grip the same
Point 2.. Not true. Sport touring tyres have the same load rating system as sport tyres, and its printed on the sidewall for you to compare.
            As for the suspension myth, as the Sportrider quote posted by Busy Little Shop points out Sport touring tyres are designed to work
            on a broard spectrum of bikes. Its DOT tyres that are the finniky critters
Point 3.. Firstly a 180/55 will have the same sidewall height irespective of tyre type as the sidewall of a 180/55 is always 55% of 180mm.
            Last year one of the english mags did a blind roadtest with Pilot Power Race, Pilot Power and Pilot Road tyres. Asked to comment
            why the all riders placed the Pilot Powers last behind the Race and Roads the head of Michelins motorcycle tyre division stated that
            the Roads and Race shared the same profile and the Power had a unique profile "to provide a quick turning feel to suit less
            experienced riders"
Point 4.. "They stick well in the rain.  Dunlops don't.  Metzler/Pirelli are O.K., but not great." All these companies make a huge variety of tyres,
            and such sweeping statements are plain ignorant. Sort of like me saying all folks in Minnesota/Wisconsin are bible-bashing rednecks,
            even though I have never even been to the US.

DFH

Yep, your right, I'm wrong.  What the fuck was I thinking?

[DFH]

Yep, your right, I'm wrong.  What the fuck was I thinking?

Dunno... if you had just said "I  find sport tyre X to be grippier, more compliant and quicker steering than the ST tyre Y I had on my xyz990 before, but it only gave me half the miles on primarily flat/hilly/hot/cold/wet roads before it went off and I had to chuck it" then it might have been more use. Then others with the same bike/tyre/conditions my have gained summat.

DFH

[SpeedyR]

No offense, but you say that like it's a new thing. Fact of the matter is this happened in 1986 so unless you are like 40+ years old, or riding old bikes with non-radial tires you have never even seen a non-pirelli owned metzeler tire design.

They are essentially the same tire. There are small differences, as metzies and pirellis are typically introduced about a year apart. And ALL pirelli motorcycle tires are developed by metzeler in germany. So metzeler is not a rebranded pirelli, but essentially pirelli is a rebranded metzeler.

actually you are pretty much wrong about the differences. The only tire that pirelli and metzeler make that was the same tire but "rebranded" was the old Rennsport and SuperCorsa race tires. Every other tire is different profiles and compounds. It's not that one or the other is "better" than the other, but it's more about which is a newer design. Whatever they learn in the past tire, they of course try to improve it in the next generation of tire. that may be more grip, better mileage, different handling characteristics, etc.

also all of the tires Pirelli and Metzeler make are developed in Italy. Their R&D facility is in Sicily. the radial tires are all manufactured in Germany and the bias ply tires are made in Brazil for the most part (there are a few odds and ends that are mixed around but that's the basics).

as for the question about tires, it depends upon what your needs are and what bike you are on. I've used my FJR with the OE BT020's (front cupped badly even with high pressures in them). got about 5k out of them before I removed them. I installed a Smarttire tire pressure monitoring system at this time to be able to instantly check tire pressure and temps.

Next I put on a set of Diablo Corsa tires. I was going on a long weekend ride with a few friends and wanted the most grip I could get. I was riding two up with gear, the other people I was riding with were on a Mille R and 748. tires worked great on the trip and I didn't think they would last much longer but they ended up lasting about 4500 miles. At the time I was commuting 150 miles a day on the bike, so the miles went by pretty quickly. After the Diablo Corsa I put on the Diablo Strada (the new E spec rear tire). kept the pressure high and they were great. I got just over 10k miles out of the rear and just over 14k out of the front. that also included two track days  (one at Barber one at Jennings). On the track I just use the FJR for two up riding, I have other bikes to use by myself.

after the Stradas were toast, I put another strada on the rear and a diablo front on. Only have a few thousand miles on these, but so far so good. no track days on these.

in general if you are looking for a good mileage tire and want decent grip but aren't doing track days, I'd say the latest sport touring tires are a good match. if you want more grip and dont' care about mileage, the sport tires today are better than probably 90% of the street riders. and if you are doing track days and pushing your tires, you aren't asking people on a sport touring forum what works best, you already know where to find those answers.

also in general the average product life cycle in sport tires is about 2 years these days. so there's always something better on the horizon. I liked the diablos a lot when they came up, but the Metzeler M3 has more grip and longer life. sometimes you can have your cake and eat it too!

[kkesler]

-1 on the Z6.  Wore out quite quickly on the front of my ST1100, and I didn't like it as well as the Z4 it replaced.  Also have some Z6s on my busa and don't like them there, either.  Bike just doesn't feel planted on these tires, and no amount of suspension fiddling helps.

Now that I have that off my chest, just how different is the Strada from the Z6?  Anyone else with feedback on the 'stone 021?

[slowduc]

regarding the sport front and st rear combination in colder weather or rain:
(garry, i know you ride in colder temps than me there in SW PA)

how does this handle when it gets a little cold?  does the sport tire get slippery in the winter (or rain for that matter), or does it hold up well enough to be used safely year round?

i can't say i use the edges of my tires (mmm, chicken strips!), but i think the extra braking and cornering confidence of the stickier front would be nice... however, i'm not interested if that front end confidence disappears once the temperature drops to near freezing.

[tomek]

regarding the sport front and st rear combination in colder weather or rain:
(garry, i know you ride in colder temps than me there in SW PA)

how does this handle when it gets a little cold?  does the sport tire get slippery in the winter (or rain for that matter), or does it hold up well enough to be used safely year round?

i can't say i use the edges of my tires (mmm, chicken strips!), but i think the extra braking and cornering confidence of the stickier front would be nice... however, i'm not interested if that front end confidence disappears once the temperature drops to near freezing.

Latest generation sport tires are not that temp sensitive like they used to be (michelin H2 comes into a mind   ),they provide more grip then ST rubber pretty much in any condition unless you go really,really fast in the rain, drainage system ( thread design) comes into a play then.Typically ST is better in this area.

[kevrider]

Why not just experiment a bit with both types?

that's the move.  we can tell you what we think but you'll never know what works best for you unless you try different things.  

that said, i like to match my tire brands front and rear.  profiles and construction may differ between brands.  so if i were you, i'd keep the Qualifier front and get a Dunlop ST tire on the rear.  if that experiment is a dismal failure, try the same thing (sport/st combo) with a different brand.  if that fails, you know you're a sport tire guy.  if it works, you can experiment with different brands and you'll save money in the long term.  

i run a Metz M1 front & Z6 rear.  that is what works for me.  ymmv.

[Lawn Dart]

-1 on the Z6.  Wore out quite quickly on the front of my ST1100, and I didn't like it as well as the Z4 it replaced.  Also have some Z6s on my busa and don't like them there, either.  Bike just doesn't feel planted on these tires, and no amount of suspension fiddling helps.

Now that I have that off my chest, just how different is the Strada from the Z6?  Anyone else with feedback on the 'stone 021?

I'ts a funny thing, tires is.  Kinda like oil, there's no one BEST oil...just as there is no one BEST tire.  It all depends on too many things, not the least of which is the seat of your pants.

Z6's - I absolutely loved them on my RSL.  Sadly, getting them for my GS is nigh on impossible given the tire sizes.  The Z6's were my "go-to" tire and wore very well for 6,000 tough miles a set.

Conti RA's - I loved them in the dry and loathed them in the rain.  IMO, they just plain flat out were the least confidence inspiring tire I've ever ridden on in the wet.  I slipped and slidded all around up at WCRM 3 that I swore I wouldn't buy them ever again.

Prologue on the RA's - damned if they aren't the only company making a STREET tire in my GS sized rims.  I've run them a second time - know what?  They still suck in the wet.  

So, tires - a hugely personal thing.

[RexRider]

+2 on the Z6s!  

I had stock Dunlop 208s on my 2006 Buell Lightning, marginal at best,  and replaced those with Qualifiers and was NOT impressed.    They wore out at 2K and their performance was not dramatically better than the 208s.  

I decided to put BMW-K's reviews to the test and went with Metzeler Z6s and have had nothing but great things to say!  They stick!  They last!  They inspire confidence!  They look cool with the bottom of the elephant's feet being scrubbed!  

Unless I find myself wanting to do a track day, I have found the perfect STREET tires.

z-6 user here.  I've done two track days on mine, plus a year's (not as much mileage as I wanted...) worth of commuting/weekend rides, and they've been excellent.  Good stick, good feedback, and solid mileage.  I'm considering the BT021's though, given the rave reviews they's gotten...