Sport-touring tires vs. Sport tires - thoughts? opinions? experiences?

[tomek]

Plenty of answers from people who don`t even own supersport bikes.Funny.

Liter bike in less then perfect conditions ( 80 deg and sunny) will spin ST tire almost at will.I actually have Pilot Road on the rear of my R1(don`t ask me why) ,in the wet I can spin the rear in 6th gear .Even in the dry you can`t be very agressive with corner exits,or it will spin.BTW PR slides pretty well.You have to have very good throttle control to use ST tire on supersport bikes,but I would not reccomend them for those bikes,they just take the fun factor away,,,,,,,,

On the other hand ST tire ( Pilot Roads) works very well on my XX.The heavy weight alone will make them stick much better then on SS bike and I would consider using sport tires on my Honda waste of monet.They provide tons of tractions for this kind of bike.

[DFH]

Plenty of answers from people who don`t even own supersport bikes.Funny.

Liter bike in less then perfect conditions ( 80 deg and sunny) will spin ST tire almost at will.I actually have Pilot Road on the rear of my R1(don`t ask me why) ,in the wet I can spin the rear in 6th gear .Even in the dry you can`t be very agressive with corner exits,or it will spin.BTW PR slides pretty well.You have to have very good throttle control to use ST tire on supersport bikes,but I would not reccomend them for those bikes,they just take the fun factor away,,,,,,,,

On the other hand ST tire ( Pilot Roads) works very well on my XX.The heavy weight alone will make them stick much better then on SS bike and I would consider using sport tires on my Honda waste of monet.They provide tons of tractions for this kind of bike.

Good points all... dunno what 80deg F is in "real" degrees but on a cool damp day I can spin up a Pilot Road with a 85hp sports twin, let alone a litre bike with 150hp. On the other hand on a nice hot dry day, say 30degC, the PR will take full throttle in 3rd with the peg on the deck for kilometer after kilometre without turning to mush... And yes I agree the PR is a a sweet slider.

Oddly enough a guy in our riding group.. don't know him well enough to call him a buddy... happily rides a R1 on Pilot Roads in the height of summer.  

I guess the rule of thumb is if you live in a warm to hot dry environment with plenty of corners to play with then the gap between the ST and pure sport tyre is less than a cold and damp environment.

As you can see from the photo Pilot Roads keep their profile well, this tyre lasted me 7500-8000km ( about 5000 of them feudal mile thingies) and hits the markers evenly all round. The last 1000km it has lost its edge, both in grip and handling, but it is the depth of winter here.

Good news is to try the new Pilot Road 2 next...

DFH

[Thor]

Point 1.. Illogical. Put a layer of sand between a tyre and the road and they all grip the same
Point 2.. Not true. Sport touring tyres have the same load rating system as sport tyres, and its printed on the sidewall for you to compare.
            As for the suspension myth, as the Sportrider quote posted by Busy Little Shop points out Sport touring tyres are designed to work
            on a broard spectrum of bikes. Its DOT tyres that are the finniky critters
Point 3.. Firstly a 180/55 will have the same sidewall height irespective of tyre type as the sidewall of a 180/55 is always 55% of 180mm.
            Last year one of the english mags did a blind roadtest with Pilot Power Race, Pilot Power and Pilot Road tyres. Asked to comment
            why the all riders placed the Pilot Powers last behind the Race and Roads the head of Michelins motorcycle tyre division stated that
            the Roads and Race shared the same profile and the Power had a unique profile "to provide a quick turning feel to suit less
            experienced riders"
Point 4.. "They stick well in the rain.  Dunlops don't.  Metzler/Pirelli are O.K., but not great." All these companies make a huge variety of tyres,
            and such sweeping statements are plain ignorant. Sort of like me saying all folks in Minnesota/Wisconsin are bible-bashing rednecks,
            even though I have never even been to the US.

DFH

Yep, your right, I'm wrong.  What the fuck was I thinking?

[DFH]

Yep, your right, I'm wrong.  What the fuck was I thinking?

Dunno... if you had just said "I  find sport tyre X to be grippier, more compliant and quicker steering than the ST tyre Y I had on my xyz990 before, but it only gave me half the miles on primarily flat/hilly/hot/cold/wet roads before it went off and I had to chuck it" then it might have been more use. Then others with the same bike/tyre/conditions my have gained summat.

DFH

[SpeedyR]

No offense, but you say that like it's a new thing. Fact of the matter is this happened in 1986 so unless you are like 40+ years old, or riding old bikes with non-radial tires you have never even seen a non-pirelli owned metzeler tire design.

They are essentially the same tire. There are small differences, as metzies and pirellis are typically introduced about a year apart. And ALL pirelli motorcycle tires are developed by metzeler in germany. So metzeler is not a rebranded pirelli, but essentially pirelli is a rebranded metzeler.

actually you are pretty much wrong about the differences. The only tire that pirelli and metzeler make that was the same tire but "rebranded" was the old Rennsport and SuperCorsa race tires. Every other tire is different profiles and compounds. It's not that one or the other is "better" than the other, but it's more about which is a newer design. Whatever they learn in the past tire, they of course try to improve it in the next generation of tire. that may be more grip, better mileage, different handling characteristics, etc.

also all of the tires Pirelli and Metzeler make are developed in Italy. Their R&D facility is in Sicily. the radial tires are all manufactured in Germany and the bias ply tires are made in Brazil for the most part (there are a few odds and ends that are mixed around but that's the basics).

as for the question about tires, it depends upon what your needs are and what bike you are on. I've used my FJR with the OE BT020's (front cupped badly even with high pressures in them). got about 5k out of them before I removed them. I installed a Smarttire tire pressure monitoring system at this time to be able to instantly check tire pressure and temps.

Next I put on a set of Diablo Corsa tires. I was going on a long weekend ride with a few friends and wanted the most grip I could get. I was riding two up with gear, the other people I was riding with were on a Mille R and 748. tires worked great on the trip and I didn't think they would last much longer but they ended up lasting about 4500 miles. At the time I was commuting 150 miles a day on the bike, so the miles went by pretty quickly. After the Diablo Corsa I put on the Diablo Strada (the new E spec rear tire). kept the pressure high and they were great. I got just over 10k miles out of the rear and just over 14k out of the front. that also included two track days  (one at Barber one at Jennings). On the track I just use the FJR for two up riding, I have other bikes to use by myself.

after the Stradas were toast, I put another strada on the rear and a diablo front on. Only have a few thousand miles on these, but so far so good. no track days on these.

in general if you are looking for a good mileage tire and want decent grip but aren't doing track days, I'd say the latest sport touring tires are a good match. if you want more grip and dont' care about mileage, the sport tires today are better than probably 90% of the street riders. and if you are doing track days and pushing your tires, you aren't asking people on a sport touring forum what works best, you already know where to find those answers.

also in general the average product life cycle in sport tires is about 2 years these days. so there's always something better on the horizon. I liked the diablos a lot when they came up, but the Metzeler M3 has more grip and longer life. sometimes you can have your cake and eat it too!

[kkesler]

-1 on the Z6.  Wore out quite quickly on the front of my ST1100, and I didn't like it as well as the Z4 it replaced.  Also have some Z6s on my busa and don't like them there, either.  Bike just doesn't feel planted on these tires, and no amount of suspension fiddling helps.

Now that I have that off my chest, just how different is the Strada from the Z6?  Anyone else with feedback on the 'stone 021?

[slowduc]

regarding the sport front and st rear combination in colder weather or rain:
(garry, i know you ride in colder temps than me there in SW PA)

how does this handle when it gets a little cold?  does the sport tire get slippery in the winter (or rain for that matter), or does it hold up well enough to be used safely year round?

i can't say i use the edges of my tires (mmm, chicken strips!), but i think the extra braking and cornering confidence of the stickier front would be nice... however, i'm not interested if that front end confidence disappears once the temperature drops to near freezing.

[tomek]

regarding the sport front and st rear combination in colder weather or rain:
(garry, i know you ride in colder temps than me there in SW PA)

how does this handle when it gets a little cold?  does the sport tire get slippery in the winter (or rain for that matter), or does it hold up well enough to be used safely year round?

i can't say i use the edges of my tires (mmm, chicken strips!), but i think the extra braking and cornering confidence of the stickier front would be nice... however, i'm not interested if that front end confidence disappears once the temperature drops to near freezing.

Latest generation sport tires are not that temp sensitive like they used to be (michelin H2 comes into a mind   ),they provide more grip then ST rubber pretty much in any condition unless you go really,really fast in the rain, drainage system ( thread design) comes into a play then.Typically ST is better in this area.

[kevrider]

Why not just experiment a bit with both types?

that's the move.  we can tell you what we think but you'll never know what works best for you unless you try different things.  

that said, i like to match my tire brands front and rear.  profiles and construction may differ between brands.  so if i were you, i'd keep the Qualifier front and get a Dunlop ST tire on the rear.  if that experiment is a dismal failure, try the same thing (sport/st combo) with a different brand.  if that fails, you know you're a sport tire guy.  if it works, you can experiment with different brands and you'll save money in the long term.  

i run a Metz M1 front & Z6 rear.  that is what works for me.  ymmv.

[Lawn Dart]

-1 on the Z6.  Wore out quite quickly on the front of my ST1100, and I didn't like it as well as the Z4 it replaced.  Also have some Z6s on my busa and don't like them there, either.  Bike just doesn't feel planted on these tires, and no amount of suspension fiddling helps.

Now that I have that off my chest, just how different is the Strada from the Z6?  Anyone else with feedback on the 'stone 021?

I'ts a funny thing, tires is.  Kinda like oil, there's no one BEST oil...just as there is no one BEST tire.  It all depends on too many things, not the least of which is the seat of your pants.

Z6's - I absolutely loved them on my RSL.  Sadly, getting them for my GS is nigh on impossible given the tire sizes.  The Z6's were my "go-to" tire and wore very well for 6,000 tough miles a set.

Conti RA's - I loved them in the dry and loathed them in the rain.  IMO, they just plain flat out were the least confidence inspiring tire I've ever ridden on in the wet.  I slipped and slidded all around up at WCRM 3 that I swore I wouldn't buy them ever again.

Prologue on the RA's - damned if they aren't the only company making a STREET tire in my GS sized rims.  I've run them a second time - know what?  They still suck in the wet.  

So, tires - a hugely personal thing.

[RexRider]

+2 on the Z6s!  

I had stock Dunlop 208s on my 2006 Buell Lightning, marginal at best,  and replaced those with Qualifiers and was NOT impressed.    They wore out at 2K and their performance was not dramatically better than the 208s.  

I decided to put BMW-K's reviews to the test and went with Metzeler Z6s and have had nothing but great things to say!  They stick!  They last!  They inspire confidence!  They look cool with the bottom of the elephant's feet being scrubbed!  

Unless I find myself wanting to do a track day, I have found the perfect STREET tires.

z-6 user here.  I've done two track days on mine, plus a year's (not as much mileage as I wanted...) worth of commuting/weekend rides, and they've been excellent.  Good stick, good feedback, and solid mileage.  I'm considering the BT021's though, given the rave reviews they's gotten...