Nikwax Question (for DantesDame or anyone else who knows the answer)

[Iceburg98]

So I just bought a new FirstGear jacket at the MC show last week. It is of the textile with leather shoulders/elbows variety. Basically this is going to be part of my all-season commuting gear, and I wanted to make it a little more waterproof. I don't need it fully waterproof since we don't get all that much rain here in SoCal, but I have been caught out by the occasional shower in the winter months...

Which Nikwax product would be best for this type of jacket? Is there one I can just spray/wipe onto the fabric? Is there one I can just use on the whole jacket with no ill-effects on the leather? The only stuff I know of is the kind you have to "wash in" to the garment, but that doesn't sound like a good idea for the leather...

Thanks!

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I agree that the Wash In doesn't sound the best for leather, although I have washed stuff with leather trim before with no adverse effects. Waterproofing it will be easy: just spray it down with TX Direct Spray On. The hard part will be getting it clean before you need to reapply the waterproofing (probably next year, after plenty of bugs have sacrificed themselves to the bike gods). I'm not familiar with just how much leather you have on your jacket, but maybe check with the mfg and ask them how they recommend cleaning it.

If you want to treat the leather as well, you'll need something called "Leather Cleaner" - I know it doesn't say anything about waterproofing leather, but it will, to a degree. It'll also clean it up nicely.  

[Iceburg98]

Cool - thanks for the reply!

I saw that stuff on the Nikwax website, but wasn't sure if that was what I wanted or not...

edit: I could probably just hand wash the fabric part, then reapply the spray, and use the leather cleaner spray on the leather panels...

[tag2501]

Aerostitch sells a spray-on Scoth-Guard leather waterproofing.  I've used it on my Fieldsheer jacket with no issues so far.  It des make the surface a little slippery, and maybe cuts the breathe-ability a bit (just supposing here - can't really tell a difference).

[Iceburg98]

I might look into that - breathability of hte leather/fabric isn't really an issue, since the jacket has more than enough zippered vents to let the air flow through...

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Just sticking up for the Nikwax stuff (well, it's my job, after all  )... Nikwax has no chemicals, whereas there are nothing but chemicals in stuff like Scotchguard. I will not deny that SG does a great job at waterproofing, but there are two major drawbacks: 1) its bad for you and 2) it doesn't last very long.

Because Nikwax is wax based (clever, aren't we?), it is more pliable and will bend and flex with the fabric. Chemical-based waterproofing tends to be more brittle and will break/flake off much more quickly. JAT  

[Iceburg98]

Cool - I'll try to hunt down some Nikwax then...

I also saw the stuff on the website for leather/fabric hiking boots - how does this differ from the TX Direct, and will it work for my application?

BTW - this is the jacket in question - as you can see, it's mostly textile, but it does have those leather patches over the "impact areas" http://www.motorcyclecloseouts.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=50-2824

Although I got mine cheaper and with no shipping   Gotta love MC shows for deals...

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Cool - I'll try to hunt down some Nikwax then...

I also saw the stuff on the website for leather/fabric hiking boots - how does this differ from the TX Direct, and will it work for my application?

You could use the Fabric & Leather Proof, but it would be tedious as hell to apply. It comes with a quarter size (?) sponge top applicator meant for small surfaces like boots and gloves. I still recommend the spray applications mentioned before.  If you were looking to save a bit of money however, you could always get the Aqueous Wax (boot waterproofing) and use it on the leather patches of your jacket as well as your boots. Still a pain to apply, but you don't have a lot of surface to cover

[Rob (from Hoosierville)]

I'll keep the Q & A moving right along  

DantesDame -

Being a wax based product, by what means does the NikWax waterproof? One could assume that when used on a Cordura type fabric, it would fill in all the little voids between fibers (like waxed cotton); or on a more molecular scale I suppose it could just coat the exterior of of each individual fiber, reducing the surface energy and eliminating any tendency to "wick" (I'm assuming the latter). This said, wouldn't either mechanism disrupt the breathability of a GoreTex type fabric beneath the Cordura?

The reason I ask is I'm planning to use the seasonal downtime offered by winter in Hoosierville to remove a heavy coating of road grime and bug DNA from my 'Stich Darien gear. I've always treated the Cordura side with Scotchguard following washing in the past fearing adverse impact on the GoreTex from anything else (this despite the Aerostich suggestions).

Thanks in advance for your reply. Huge thanks in advance for a super detailed reply that an anal retentive, gotta prove it to me engineering type (guilty ) can really get their arms around!

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Thanks in advance for your reply. Huge thanks in advance for a super detailed reply that an anal retentive, gotta prove it to me engineering type (guilty ) can really get their arms around!

  Let's see what I can do...

As it was explained to me, in an analogous way: Nikwax does not create a solid layer on the surface of the fabric to keep the water out. Instead, it works on a molecular (?) level to wrap itself around each fiber. Think about it like your screen door: it keeps the mosquitos out, but it still lets air pass through. Well, Nikwax makes each fiber just that much fatter to keep those nasty rain drops out, but doesn't completely seal out the air (and water vapour that you're expelling) that wants to pass through.

This is also why there are so many different types of Nikwax waterproofing products: waterproofing something like softshell, which already has an extremely tight weave, is much different than proofing something like fleece, which has a lot more space to fill between those fibers. Its not a marketing ploy to get people to buy different bottles; there really is a difference in the level of effectiveness that you'll get  

This doesn't prove anything, I know; it just tries to explain 'why' it works, not 'how'. If you want a laboratorie's reply, then write to inquiries@nikwak.co.uk.  That's where they keep the guys in white coats  

[Rob (from Hoosierville)]

Thanks for the reply. I'll fire off a question to the folks in white coats.  

[Iceburg98]

Well, I found the TX Direct spray on, but REI didn't have the leather cleaner, so I just got the Aqueaous Wax... It shouldn't be too bad since there's not all that much leather I need to work with....

Does the jacket have to be wet to apply this stuff? The leather one says to clean the leather and then apply it while the leather is wet - can I just put it on the dry leather since I haven't worn it yet? Also, does the fabric have to be wet for the spray to work? It says to lay the "wet fastened" garment out then spray it  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Does the jacket have to be wet to apply this stuff? The leather one says to clean the leather and then apply it while the leather is wet - can I just put it on the dry leather since I haven't worn it yet? Also, does the fabric have to be wet for the spray to work? It says to lay the "wet fastened" garment out then spray it  

Whatever you're applying Nikwax to should be at least damp. "Why" you ask? Nikwax is waterbased, so if the surface you're applying it to is already damp then it will soak in among the fibers that much more thoroughly and it will spread around more evenly. So evern brand new, out-of-the-box stuff should at least be damp. If you can't get it damp, then there's no need for Nikwax because if the water rolls off, so will your Nikwax.  

The Leather Cleaner is harder to find, as not a lot of stores carry it. Some moto shops do, as do some equestrian shops, but they are few and far between. If you really want to give it a try, try www.altrec.com, as they carry all Nikwax items, including larger sized bottles  

[Iceburg98]

So will sponging down the jacket before applying be enough?

[Mrs. DantesDame]

So will sponging down the jacket before applying be enough?

In theory, yes. But it depends on how wet the sponge is and how receptive the surface is to the water. The surface doesn't have to be soaked, but it should be wet enough that you wouldn't want to wear it    I like to treat mine just after I've pulled it out of the washer