1st Ride Buell 1125R: Various Sources (updated again)

[Schneegz]

No write-up yet, but you can watch the video here.

UPDATE: I've added four short write-ups from MCN, TWO, Superbike and RacerX in posts below.

[Johnny Monsoon]

Is Eric Buell maybe the smartest man in the US moto-industry?

Seriously, he develops a bike using a cheap and readily available engine.  It works well for his design innovations.  Then as he progresses, his company is adopted by HD.  He slips around in HD's shadow for a while, biding his time.  He says things that give the MoCo warm fuzzies like "I'll never leave the Evo engine".

Yet, here he is, now essentially divorced from the MoCo (what else about the Buell ties him to the HD line?) and developing a US made bike that now finally has some credibility with a much wider scope of the riding population.

Smart.  Very, very smart.

[TheCloser]

I am no rocket scientist, but since Buell is a wholly owned subsidiary of H-D, I would say that H-D is the one who is smart since Erik has to get their sign off on a design change of this magnitude.  

From a strategic marketing standpoint, it makes sense to grow the Buell brand regardless of who is producing the engine.   If Buell can emerge to be a more significant player in the sportbike market with the 1125R, then everyone, except the Big Four and select Italian twins, wins!  

[Schneegz]

A short write-up from MCN:

World first test report of the Buell 1125R
By Trevor Franklin

Bike tests

23 August 2007 09:52


MCN’s Chief Road Tester Trevor Franklin is currently at Laguna Seca riding Buell’s radical, all new 1125R. Check out the video of him riding the bike here plus there’ll also be Trev’s full, in-depth road test in next Wednesday’s MCN. In the meantime, this is what he’s had to say:

“The looks may be familiarly quirky Buell, but the 1125R is a revolutionary bike for Buell using, as it does, an all-new, purpose built, 140bhp motor specifically developed for the firm by Rotax, in place of the breathed on but essentially archaic push rod Harley lumps it’s used until now.’

"That said, from the saddle the 1125R is nowhere near as radical as you might expect. The riding position is more road than race (say, Firestorm rather than 1098) and although its handling and steering continues the Buell traditional of being ultra-sharp yet surprisingly stable, the overall vibe is definitely more that of impressive street sports rather than uncompromising track weapon. And that’s a good thing.

"The other ‘vibe’ is less of a good thing. The new engine, though with enough poke to match RSVs and the like (it’s nearly 50% more powerful than any previous Buell) is actually a fairly sane and sensible beast, yet with more than enough instant urge when you need it. Highlight? Gorgeously slick gearchange that’s a million miles more advanced than previous Buell efforts. Lowlights? More than a few vibes through the bars at high revs and a slightly fluffy delivery between three and 4000rpm, both of which, Buell says, will be fixed on production models.

"Whether the 1125R is beautiful or not is up to you. What’s beyond any doubt is that this bike makes Buell, for the first time, a truly credible contender…"

[bomber]

Erik Buell IS pretty darned smart, and a gas to converse with --

however, divorce from the Iron Tower is simply not in the cards -- HDI derives way top much value from Buell -- other than the profit Buell makes (small, admittedly, in comparison to other parts of their business) they got

- access to engineers that think outside the HDI box (the new sportie mill is a pretty much a Buell engine)

- a real world R&D center for new concepts

- a life fire exercise sandbox for manufacturing advances (things spotted in East Troy majikally appeared in Capitol Drive a couple of years later)

- the potential of bringing a different demographic to the brand

pretty compelling reasons to continue a relationship that has benefited both parties, I'm thinkin

[Schneegz]

And a longer report from TWO courtesy of Visordown.com:

Launch report by Bertie Simmonds

Meandering down the infamous Corkscrew is something I’ve always wanted to do. I’ll say meander as that’s about as much speed as I’m ever going to generate down one of the most famous turns in motorcycle racing.

Laguna itself is full of ups and downs, it’s kinda like Cadwell or Brands indy on
acid. Today’s track ride on the Buell has also been a little up and down - although I hasten to say more up than down.

Y’see, it’s been difficult to keep my mind on the bike when you’re actually
barrelling into the if-not blind, then at least ‘partially sighted’ Andretti Hairpin
which is turn two at Laguna, and secondly the Corkscrew seems to unfairly stick in your memory when this 2.24mile, 11-turn glorious piece of Tarmac has many other delights that jostle for position in your memory. You’ve got fast, blind corners, up-hill and downhill sweepers, tight turns, slow turns and - of course - the notorious Corkscrew, where you flick-flack left and right through a roller-coaster of a downhill corner.

The Buell 1125R is both a new beginning and an extension of what’s gone before for the American marque. New as (finally) we have a more powerful, liquid-cooled motor and yet all the pleasant quirks and foibles that make Buells a curious joy to ride are there: fuel in frame - check, mass centralization - check, Zero Torsional Load front brake disc - check. You get the picture.

Despite launching this machine at Laguna, speaking to Erik Buell himself and the massed Buellites, this is a sports bike for the road first, not the track. But let me say it makes a fine track bike. You could roll up at any track in the UK and this thing would take you by the hand and help you round. If you can do Laguna on this, you could do pretty much anywhere. That beautifully broad spread of power from the 2-degree liquid-cooled motor means gear selection needn’t be spot-on while you’re learning which way things are going. Buell claims 146bhp at around 10,000rpm at the crank, but I reckon the 1125R will be around 120 on the dyno. Top-end is one thing, but the way this thing makes its power is both impressive and delightful, with oomph coming from low-down all the way to the redline.

Brakes too, are superb. The new eight-pot Zero Torsion fixed caliper means less weight than a conventional dual-disc system and it works very well.

Suspension is where things get a little murky for me. Now, I do a few trackdays a year, I’m ‘vaguely respectable’ rather than ‘really rapid’, but the way the bike is behaving in the different sessions is puzzling me. In my first ‘proper’ session after pulling in with a duff battery, I’m on the ‘big-boys’ Buell, as befits my weight. But come session two I’m on one set-up for a lighter load and it’s making a big difference. The bike is porpoising from front to rear on the brakes and it’s not feeling sure-footed in Laguna’s demanding turns. Normally on most sportsbikes I can get on something with standard settings and be comfortable - hell, I’m like any of you I rarely really fiddle with suspension - but around Laguna it seems you need to on the 1125R as it seems a little sensitive to such changes. Also, many of the ther journalists are saying they’ve got a preference for the harder set-up of the ‘heavier’ bikes so that pretty soon most of the machines were being set-up this way.

In the morning Buell were saying that these machines were pre-production bikes, with perhaps only some rough welds, a muffler change and perhaps a few detail changes, but then it comes to light that they may well make suspension changes as they feel that perhaps they’ve had a bad batch of fork springs. I can forgive the bike this: this is a pre-production machine after all, but so long as the production bikes have suspension that behaves as well as it did most of the time, you’re onto a winner.

So who will buy the 1125R? Obviously Buell fans will queue up to buy this bike, which will sit at the top of the family tree when it’s in shops later this year, but what sort of machine is it?

Well, just looking at it you can see it’s ‘different’. I can tell you that it’s better in the flesh than in pictures, but you’re going to have to love the looks to buy one. Yes, it looks a bit wide at the front, but that’s because Buell has spent plenty of time in the ‘virtual’ wind-tunnel making sure it’s both slippery and protective. Oh, and you better like black, as that’s the only colour it’s going to be coming in.

By the time you read this we’ll be enjoying the 1125R’s road manners down some demanding Californian roads and I reckon it’s here that the bike will score most. This motor is effortless, it’s ergonomically comfortable and it should tackle your favourite set of twisties with ease - which is just what Erik and the team want you to do. This is a different proposition than, say, a GSX-R1000 K7. With that Suzuki say you’ll ‘Own the Racetrack’, but Buell say you’ll ‘Own the Corners’ with the 1125R and I reckon that’s about right.

Read the full report in next month’s Two Wheels Only.

[Schneegz]

Erik Buell IS pretty darned smart, and a gas to converse with --

however, divorce from the Iron Tower is simply not in the cards -- HDI derives way top much value from Buell -- other than the profit Buell makes (small, admittedly, in comparison to other parts of their business) they got

- access to engineers that think outside the HDI box (the new sportie mill is a pretty much a Buell engine)

- a real world R&D center for new concepts

- a life fire exercise sandbox for manufacturing advances (things spotted in East Troy majikally appeared in Capitol Drive a couple of years later)

- the potential of bringing a different demographic to the brand

pretty compelling reasons to continue a relationship that has benefited both parties, I'm thinkin

All that is true, but there's more.  The average Buell owner is about 38, according to an article in the Daily Telegraph, just entering the years of the average Westerner's life in which disposable income is at it's peak.  The average Harley owner is in his 60s, nearing the end of those peak years.  Furthermore, Harley's market is pretty well saturated in the US, though it's still growing in Europe, and may grow explosively in emerging markets in the future.  Buell's market share, though tiny compared to Harley's, is growing steadily in both the US and Europe, and it'll probably grow even more with the addition of the Helicon engine.

[chornbe]

I'd really rather hear some actual rider/owner reviews from people who have lived with the bike a bit.

[1KPerDay]

You'll have to wait a good while to hear that.

[Schneegz]

One more from Superbike Magazine.

Buell launches the 1125R sportsbike in Laguna Seca

August 23, 2007 - Jon Pearson

Our man JP is at the famous Californian circuit finding out if Buell's first sportsbike lives up to the hype. And we beat Pompous Motor Cycle News' 'World First' report by seven hours. So neh!

At last, a Buell with a decent motor. The Rotax built 1125 twin cylinder lump is the biggest significant difference between this and any other Buell I've ridden. In a nutshell it has decent power, doesn't rattle your nuts off or sound like an old VW van.

No, the 1125R is a break from the norm for Buell and thank Christ. The trademark unique chassis has always been the best thing about a Buell, with a short wheelbase and fast steering. With new Showa suspension front and rear the 1125R really handled the Laguna circuit well. Buell has now done the most obvious of things and bolted in a motor to match. The Rotax-built motor has a long and strong spread of power. The claimed 146bhp seems a tad optimistic to me, I'm not sure we'll find much more than a good 600cc in-line four, but the amount of torque pulling you along was a pleasure up the Laguna hills.

The long and the short of it is the 1125R works in all the ways a sportsbike should which is refreshing to find from Buell. The odd quirk here and there shows no more or less character than most twin cylinder sportbikes, it's just an American version of things rather than Italian. The looks seem a bit odd but you kind of get used to it and, from inside, the fairing does seem to work.

Buell's claim that this is a sportsbike isn't going to hold up in the face of GSX-Rs and the like, it's much more of a road bike which you'll enjoy yourself doing one or two trackdays a year on. On the road it'll rival most twin cylinder 1000cc (ish) bikes like the Ducati Monster, KTM SuperDuke as well as the Yamaha Fazer 1000. It's also like a 2007 version of the old Honda Firestorm or Aprilia Falco. Which makes it a pretty good bike in my book. For more details check out the November issue of SuperBike.

And Laguna Seca? Well, you know, it's alright. The Corkscrew is a bit tricky. Might just about be the best track I've ridden but apart from that it's just like anywhere else really. Not.

[naustin]

I'm dying to get my hands one, and I'm really hoping somebody comes out with a kit for hard bags and a top case so I can buy one...

[Snowbird]

I'm dying to get my hands one, and I'm really hoping somebody comes out with a kit for hard bags and a top case so I can buy one...

Yeah, a sport-touring version.  

[chornbe]

Since you don't have to change the bike any to put bags on it, couldn't we just call it the touring version?

[timmybob4]

All that is true, but there's more.  The average Buell owner is about 38, according to an article in the Daily Telegraph, just entering the years of the average Westerner's life in which disposable income is at it's peak.  The average Harley owner is in his 60s, nearing the end of those peak years.  Furthermore, Harley's market is pretty well saturated in the US, though it's still growing in Europe, and may grow explosively in emerging markets in the future.  Buell's market share, though tiny compared to Harley's, is growing steadily in both the US and Europe, and it'll probably grow even more with the addition of the Helicon engine.

Don't forget having one of the largest dealer networks around (with mechanics who know what they are doing).

[naustin]

(with mechanics who know what they are doing).

 

[Clive]

The average Buell owner is about 38, according to an article in the Daily Telegraph, just entering the years of the average Westerner's life in which disposable income is at it's peak.  The average Harley owner is in his 60s, nearing the end of those peak years.

When it comes to models on the showroom floor, I'd think HD would care about the average age of the potential buyers of its bike lineup, not the age of bike owners.

[Snowbird]

Since you don't have to change the bike any to put bags on it, couldn't we just call it the touring version?

Have you ever noticed how nice factory hard bags fit, look, go on and off, and allow passengers easy access to their seat? I have and don't buy anything they're not on.  

[garry]

Sounds like the ergos will be sporty, but more relaxed than your typical sportbike. Assuming I can live with the looks, this could be the replacement for the Ninja bike next year. I believe I read that production isn't starting until October, so it'll be a while before we can sling a leg over a production bike. I've always been intrigued by Buells and this could be the one. Almost pulled the trigger on a Uly. Hmmmm.....

[chornbe]

Have you ever noticed how nice factory hard bags fit, look, go on and off, and allow passengers easy access to their seat? I have and don't buy anything they're not on.  

That is my *one* regret about the CBR/F4i. I know, I know... "it's a sport bike". Damnit... if I can't carry stuff, there's little point. I even told myself several times that it's just a weekend weapon for the twisties and bopping around. Yeah, uh huh. Meanwhile I've put more daily miles on it than on the FJR since buying it.

[Bueller]

Is Eric Buell maybe the smartest man in the US moto-industry?

Seriously, he develops a bike using a cheap and readily available engine.  It works well for his design innovations.  Then as he progresses, his company is adopted by HD.  He slips around in HD's shadow for a while, biding his time.  He says things that give the MoCo warm fuzzies like "I'll never leave the Evo engine".

Yet, here he is, now essentially divorced from the MoCo (what else about the Buell ties him to the HD line?) and developing a US made bike that now finally has some credibility with a much wider scope of the riding population.

Smart.  Very, very smart.

Hi Johnny,

With the 2008 Models I see Buell has a big commitment to the Thunderstorm, and I don't see anything behind the back except that the Rotax engine for the Buell must rate as one of the best kept secrets for the last century.  You say that it is Buell with the surprises, but what is the significance of the missing B in X1125R?   . I really can't imagine any conspiracy here.  There is a precedent here with HD using Porsche to develop the V-rod engine.  It makes good commercial sense.

I don't see that the engine was a premade either. It's a 70 degree V.  I can't think of any other bike with that.  (Hope it sounds better than a 65 degree).

It's a shame to lose the XB9R, I think they filled a market gap, but its Buell with the purse not me.

I agree with smart.  If Buell are really smart though they will sell Buell accredited riding lessons through every dealer.  I can see the X1125R developing a reputation as a killer bike.

[phoenix]

the specs are probably on one of those links, but I'll just post 'em here:

MSRP $11,995
Dimensions U.S. Units
Overall Length  78.6 in.
Overall Width 28.2 in.
Seat Height:  
Standard  30.5 in.
Wheelbase 54.6 in.
Tires:  
Type Pirelli®  
Front Diablo Corsa III (model)
  120/70 ZR-17 (specifications)
Rear Diablo Corsa III (model)
  180/55 ZR-17 (specifications)
Fuel Capacity 5.6 gal.
Reserve Fuel Capacity 0.8 gal.
Weight:  
Dry Weight 375 lbs.
Gross Rating 850 lbs.
Load Capacity 395 lbs.
Engine U.S. Units
Engine Liquid-cooled 1125cc Helicon® V-Twin  
Valve Train DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder, finger follower design & shimming  
Bore x Stroke:  
Bore 4.055 in.
Stroke 2.658 in.
Displacement 68.7 cu. in.
Compression Ratio 12.3:1  
Fuel Delivery Dual 61 mm down draft throttle bodies, DDFI III fuel injection  
Exhaust Tuned, tri-pass resonance chamber with integral helmholtz tuning and mass-centralized mounting  
Torque 82 ft. lbs. @ 8000 RPM
Horsepower  146 HP @ 9800 RPM
Primary Drive Helical Gear, 0.554:1 (36/65) ratio  
Final Drive  Constant path, 14 mm pitch aramid-reinforced Goodyear® Hibrex® belt with Flexten® Plus technology, 2.593:1 (70/27) ratio  
Clutch Wet, multi-plate, Hydraulic Vacuum Assist (HVA) Slipper Action Clutch, hydraulic clutch lever effort
Transmission 6-speed, straight cut gears  
Chassis U.S. Units
Frame Aluminum frame, fuel in frame  
Front Fork 47 mm Showa® inverted forks with adjustable compression damping, rebound damping and spring preload  
Rear Shock  Showa® coil over monoshock with adjustable compression damping, rebound damping and spring preload  
Wheels:  
Color Diamond Blue  
Front 6-spoke, ZTL™ cast aluminum (type)
  3.5 in. (diameter)
  17 in. (width)
Rear 6-spoke, cast aluminum (type)
  5.5 in. (diameter)
  17 in. (width)
Brakes:  
Front ZTL™-type brake, 8-piston, fixed caliper, 375 mm single sided, inside out, stainless steel, floating rotor  
Rear Two-piston, direct mount caliper, 240 mm stainless steel, fixed rotor

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/07/07/2008-buell-1125r-liquid-cooled-rotax-v-twin/

[November]

Nice video. I'd love to see Buell continue to gain in the market share as they improve. Would be nice to see more on the road (I think I've seen one ever on the road (a Blast) and I live in Houston.   ).

Don't forget having one of the largest dealer networks around.

Only if they actually add Buell to the dealerships. Due to our own ignorance my husband and I went into a HD dealership near our home intending to take a look at a Uly. When we walked in a salesman approached us but when we asked where the Buells were he said there's only one place in Houston that sells them and it's on the north side of town. He had a chuckle and said, "There's a reason we don't sell them."  

Like Garry I'm intrigued by Buell and would love to go look at the bikes, take a seat, and possibly a ride, but it seems they are very separated from the HD dealerships.

I guess that just gives us a good reason to head over to the north side of Houston.  

[bomber]

Large Delaership Network?

Potentially, you bet!

In reality, er, ehem, uh, not quite so large.

As others have observed, not all HD dealers carry Buells -- I'll go further and say not all HD dealers should be allow to service HDs, much less Buells. There's bolting on accessories, and there's service a bike. not at all the same thing. Which leads to . . .

Techs that know what they are doing? Er, ehem, again -- there ARE dealerships with good Buell Techs, no doubt.

They are thin on the groundm though -- factor in the new mill, and the picture gets really interesting.

Me, I'm a Buell fan -- love my tuber, while none of the XB line quite does it for me -- I'd love to see Buell continue to expand, and make money faster than the law allows.

As always, their success is limited mostly by two things:

1 those that choose their rides from spec sheets, rather than riding

and

2 the destribution network -- enough has been written and said about that, no need for me to add to it

[1moreroad]

Fuel Capacity 5.6 gal.
Reserve Fuel Capacity 0.8 gal.
Weight:  
Dry Weight 375 lbs.

I think the Aprilia Falco comparison is interesting.  If this has decent tank range (i.e., NOT Falco or VTR1000), then I would be very interested.

Sounds like the ergos will be sporty, but more relaxed than your typical sportbike. Assuming I can live with the looks, this could be the replacement for the Ninja bike next year.

If you're looking for something just a little different, F4i or ZZR600.  Supposedly the new CBR600RR has less aggressive ergos, too.

[Schneegz]

When it comes to models on the showroom floor, I'd think HD would care about the average age of the potential buyers of its bike lineup, not the age of bike owners.

I don't remember the exact wording of the article, but I took it to mean that the average Buell buyer is 38, while the average Harley buyer is in his 60s.  Besides, even if the author meant owner and not buyer, the difference is academic at most.  If the average Harley owner is over 20 years older than the average Buell owner, then it is also highly likely that the average Harley buyer is over 20 years older than the average Buell buyer.

[Johnny Monsoon]

Is Eric Buell maybe the smartest man in the US moto-industry?

Seriously, he develops a bike using a cheap and readily available engine.  It works well for his design innovations.  Then as he progresses, his company is adopted by HD.  He slips around in HD's shadow for a while, biding his time.  He says things that give the MoCo warm fuzzies like "I'll never leave the Evo engine".

Yet, here he is, now essentially divorced from the MoCo (what else about the Buell ties him to the HD line?) and developing a US made bike that now finally has some credibility with a much wider scope of the riding population.

Smart.  Very, very smart.

See, you guys aren't getting my point, exactly.

Sure, he's going to be part of the MoCo, but in name only.  I mean, really, what else is related?  It used to end at the engine, but now that's been replaced.  The Buell bashers that harped on the Evo powerplant won't even have that argument anymore, and let's face it, that's the most founded (and realistic, I think) argument for NOT buying a Buell up to this point.

[Schneegz]

A much longer write-up from RacerX.com.

[Clive]

I don't remember the exact wording of the article, but I took it to mean that the average Buell buyer is 38, while the average Harley buyer is in his 60s.  Besides, even if the author meant owner and not buyer, the difference is academic at most.  If the average Harley owner is over 20 years older than the average Buell owner, then it is also highly likely that the average Harley buyer is over 20 years older than the average Buell buyer.

With some Googling: the average HD buyer seems to be around 45, give or take a couple; the average Buell buyer is reported as being just under 40.

[Schneegz]

With some Googling: the average HD buyer seems to be around 45, give or take a couple; the average Buell buyer is reported as being just under 40.

Apparently the disparaty isn't as great as that article made it out to be.  

[Clive]

Apparently the disparaty isn't as great as that article made it out to be.  

Well, the HD age over the last 10+ years has been rising while the Buell age has been holding relatively steady -- maybe the article was trending things out?

[Snowbird]

That is my *one* regret about the CBR/F4i. I know, I know... "it's a sport bike". Damnit... if I can't carry stuff, there's little point. I even told myself several times that it's just a weekend weapon for the twisties and bopping around. Yeah, uh huh. Meanwhile I've put more daily miles on it than on the FJR since buying it.

Like the rest of us, you're torn between touring and sport. But, that's not such a bad thing.  

[VAX]

Like the rest of us, you're torn between touring and sport. But, that's not such a bad thing.  

I'm not torn, I'm in nirvana.

[Schneegz]

A very short snippet from Raptors & Rockets.

[Mastros2]

Nice video, agree with the point that the Thunderstorm is not dead yet.  With the changes, it looks to be a better bike than year's past. And with the price drop, more people will look at them.  
Thanks Erik!  Way to go!

[ventur4th]

I was at Laguna this past Monday, finishing up some work involving the Monterey Historics, and saw the Buells there.
First, I did ask and they said no I couldn't ride one.
Sitting on one found the ergos to be a bit more aggressive than my Sprint ST. The triple clamp doesn't look like it would lend itself to risers.
Fit and finish were good.
The looks are something only a mother could love - but that's why I've always liked the Buells.
Speaking with the R&D manager was interesting. I asked about distribution and if Buell would sponsor their own dealerships and was told that they would continue to be sold at the HD shops. HD techs will be sent to training to learn the new motor. In response to questions about other versions/models with the Rotax, he said not at this time. Nor was there plans to go racing with this platform.
While the U.S. moto journalist crowd was out road riding, the Buell factory guys were getting track time on a couple of the bikes. These are fast bikes - they accelerated and drove out of corners hard and looked like they were on rails all the time.
Availability is scheduled for November and the suggested retail is 11,999.
It's an interesting bike and makes my short list for next years purchase.

[goodhawk]

Looks hot to me - not so much the visuals, ( side rads /air scoop kinda funky) >the specs - something I would design for my use - excel power ( for me, even 'too much') , comfy ergos, I'm sure if need be Helibars wold fit , top suspen.,brakes - even a large 5.6 gal tank, I'd guess it must have 200 mi + range before res.
probably moved to # 1 on my short list for purchase next summer, the BMW R 1200 S , then Tri Tiger 1050 ( with lowering Kit)
with the note that actually buying first year prod. is something of a gamble . . .could I actually be buying a BUELL ?
great job Eric