Dale & Tom Mel - Q for ya: Back up Batteries?

[Lawn Dart]

Dale (& Tom - but I know your a bit preoccupied right now...) I got a question for you.  After reading the Day 7 diary I've noted that around 2-3 people have killed their batteries and required a jump start, costing them priceless hours.  

I guess I just don't get it:  with all the electronic gizmo's on a bike, with all the wild road conditions, even with 800+ watt alternators, with the Fates playing games...Why don't riders mount a spare "backup" battery to their bike with a dual charger and a "one-way" switch?  One of the smaller Oddyssey AGM's only weighs what, 5-10# and isn't all that big.  Basically if the primary battery goes dead, just flip a switch and the backup battery comes online.

(PS:  This is done with huge regularity in the 4x4 off-road world although I suppose jostling around on a 4x4 trail is a quite a bit different than riding on freeways.  But still?)

(PPS:  My comments based on:  Bob Collin called in today from Colorado. He pulled off of the road to take a nap and left his 4-way flashers on. When he awoke his battery was dead. It took over two hours for the service vehicle to arrive and give him a jump. As the truck pulled away, Bob got back on the R1200RT and promptly stalled it. It wouldn't restart. By the time he got his second jump start, he had been sidelined for 5 hours.)

[squeezer]

I smell a whole new market for the farkle industry -- auxiliary battery compartments.

That idea makes a lot of sense to me.  Even easier:  carry one of those single use, plug-into-the-lighter-socket battery chargers for emergencies like this.  Anyone know if that wouldn't work on a bike?  I think all you'd need is an always hot socket.

To avoid the specific problem Bob had, I carry a separate flasher that I can set on the ground behind the bike.  Those four-way flashers will kill your battery in a hurry.

[Warchild]

Dale (& Tom - but I know your a bit preoccupied right now...) I got a question for you.

I guess I just don't get it:  with all the electronic gizmo's on a bike, with all the wild road conditions, even with 800+ watt alternators, with the Fates playing games...Why don't riders mount a spare "backup" battery to their bike with a dual charger and a "one-way" switch?  

We had an FJR rider do this exact farkle, but he had to cancel out on his IBR participation at the last minute.

Except for the Beemer electrical failure that has sidelined David Derrick (who was in 1st place at the end of Leg One - ouch!), all the electrical problems/failures we have seen have pretty much been rider-induced. The bikes have been operating within their design parameters, but if you dick up and run the battery down yourself, or failed to husband your Datel while underway, etc, etc, well....  shit is gonna go bad on ya.

We are curious why Bob felt the need to put on his flashers if he was pulled off in the typical Iron Butt motel (Rest Area). If he actually, truly just pulled off to the side of a road to sleep, I could see why he would want his flashers, but.... damn, that is not a smart move. Drunks and sleepy drivers will target-fixate on flashers that blink at a fixed rate.... not good.

That being said, I don't know if this is what Bob actually did or not, I just saying....

[discochris]

There's a guy in California - not sure if he still posts here, but his screen name was 2001Concours.  He had a legendary number of farkles on his Connie, and if I remember, he ran a spare battery in one of the saddlebags.

[JimWilliamson]

I'm of the thought that it's not the farkles that kills the batts but rather them being baked / over charged by the charging system. Either way, a second batt is a good idea - even if it's a small one with enough to get the motor started.

[Specter]

During the Cal 24 this year, my battery decided to start its' slow metamorphosis from power source to additional ballast at about 2 AM in pea soup fog on Highway 1 near Lompoc. Its demise was accelerated by the 40 degree temperatures.  It was a constant worry. Even though the bike would run fine at normal speeds, I couldn't shut it down at bonus locations and had to run a high idle to get any kind of charging while stopped. I had to abandon any additional bonuses and come to the finish an hour early. A dual setup is very tempting. I just need to find a location for the second AGM battery.

[Outlaw]

A second battery, mmmmmm why not just place the highest CCA battery that will fit. Then do a calculation of the watts being pulled by all the farkles turned on a the same time, then have Ricky stator rewind your stator to handle the needs.  

I don't run aux lighting, I only run a GPS + XM radio and some times a 12v plug for my phone to charge, so I have never experienced a Battery/charging issues.

I have had factory battery last 4-5 years without any issues. Battery maintenance is just as important as changing oil.  Keeping your connections clean, using the right size wire for the farkles, least amount of connection points etc.  Dirty battery connections are the battery/Reg/Rectifier killer. The dirt causes Resistance, which taxes the charging system.

[Lawn Dart]

A second battery, mmmmmm why not just place the highest CCA battery that will fit. Then do a calculation of the watts being pulled by all the farkles turned on a the same time, then have Ricky stator rewind your stator to handle the needs.  

I don't run aux lighting, I only run a GPS + XM radio and some times a 12v plug for my phone to charge, so I have never experienced a Battery/charging issues.

I have had factory battery last 4-5 years without any issues. Battery maintenance is just as important as changing oil.  Keeping your connections clean, using the right size wire for the farkles, least amount of connection points etc.  Dirty battery connections are the battery/Reg/Rectifier killer. The dirt causes Resistance, which taxes the charging system.

Outlaw,

The question isn't about stator issues or battery maintenance.  I'm on an R12GS with a 600 watt alternator (my RSL had a 780 watt alternator).  I have an Oddyssey AGM battery - what, 700cca?  It's a monster.  I don't have any charging concerns nor do I have issues with the battery - hey, it's only a few months old.

Neither of which will help me if I kill the battery leaving farkles on or running a headlight on batteries only.  Further, even the BEST of batteries can suffer a failure.  To add insult to injury, with electronic ignitions and fuel injection many bikes cannot be bump started at all.  

The idea with a back up battery is just that:  a backup.  It's not supposed to replace a properly designed charging system - it's a "bail my ass out when I screw up" system.  Go 24 hours without sleep and push 1500+ miles and mistakes happen.

[Outlaw]

Outlaw,

The question isn't about stator issues or battery maintenance. I'm on an R12GS with a 600 watt alternator (my RSL had a 780 watt alternator).  I have an Oddyssey AGM battery - what, 700cca?  It's a monster.  I don't have any charging concerns nor do I have issues with the battery - hey, it's only a few months old.

Neither of which will help me if I kill the battery leaving farkles on or running a headlight on batteries only.  Further, even the BEST of batteries can suffer a failure.  To add insult to injury, with electronic ignitions and fuel injection many bikes cannot be bump started at all.  

The idea with a back up battery is just that:  a backup.  It's not supposed to replace a properly designed charging system - it's a "bail my ass out when I screw up" system.  Go 24 hours without sleep and push 1500+ miles and mistakes happen.

I can see you'd probably never have an issue under normal conditions, but as you said mistakes happen. But lets see how many AH (amp hours) does your battery hold, not CCAs  lets say you have 60 AHs. If you left all your lights on and a gps, radar detector, xm radio saying your lights draw 200 watts or 16.6 amps roughly and the other farkles Draw we'll say a total of 2 amps  it would take over 3 hrs to drain the battery That's one hell of a mistake.

I see the point of the Bail my ass out when I screw up. Can't argue that point!  But you have a great system so my point was coming from a system that isn't up to the same potential as yours.  + I didn't take in the fact that things got left on. I was looking at it from a maintenance issue or should I say lack of.

[Cal24Master]

Dale (& Tom - but I know your a bit preoccupied right now...) I got a question for you.  After reading the Day 7 diary I've noted that around 2-3 people have killed their batteries and required a jump start, costing them priceless hours.  

I guess I just don't get it:  with all the electronic gizmo's on a bike, with all the wild road conditions, even with 800+ watt alternators, with the Fates playing games...Why don't riders mount a spare "backup" battery to their bike with a dual charger and a "one-way" switch?  One of the smaller Oddyssey AGM's only weighs what, 5-10# and isn't all that big.  Basically if the primary battery goes dead, just flip a switch and the backup battery comes online.

(PS:  This is done with huge regularity in the 4x4 off-road world although I suppose jostling around on a 4x4 trail is a quite a bit different than riding on freeways.  But still?)

(PPS:  My comments based on:  Bob Collin called in today from Colorado. He pulled off of the road to take a nap and left his 4-way flashers on. When he awoke his battery was dead. It took over two hours for the service vehicle to arrive and give him a jump. As the truck pulled away, Bob got back on the R1200RT and promptly stalled it. It wouldn't restart. By the time he got his second jump start, he had been sidelined for 5 hours.)

I shut off all the electronic components when I get off the bike.  I've never had a problem.

Tom

[Indy Raven YZF]

I thought I saw once a device for a car that would cut the battery connection if a big enought draw occured when the car was off.  I know a lot of newer cars have the device to shut off your lights if you leave them on.  If something like that could be fabbed for a bike, it would reduce some of your problems.

[desert_rider]

If anyone is interested in doing this, shoot a message to ST-N'er: Cale_Cat   He had a switch from an RV company under his seat and it would charge the bike's battery to capacity then automatically switch to an Oddessy battery in a Pelican Case on the back of the bike.  So it kept both batteries charged.  I saw the set up at the WCRM and it was very neat and slick.

[BobW]

K,
would the RXXXX P bike's dual set up not bolt up on these other R bikes? The very thing you guys are discussing is one of benefits some Motor Officers I know gives thumbs up on the BMW. That and nice handling, easy to wheelie, good brakes, clean lines........those are some anal guys when they talk about what works. Push starting the KZ1000 after sitting with the police lights on etc., was not their idea of fun. Like you posted, no pushing to start the new bikes.

Also in discussing pro/cons type of electrical systems/batteries with large amp draw on police vehicles, there was found to be a "common" "dead" gel battery concern(Optima). A car with all the lights and radios etc., on while at idle for long periods of time at crashes, crime scenes etc., would not re start when driven from location and parked. All the equipment outstripped the HO alternators and large CCA gel batteries and they then had to use an extensive recharge cycle to revitalize the battery. It was pointed out that the old "wet" batteries would take a jump and easily recharge while driving. One of the reasons so many LED's are being implemented was to lower amp requirements.

Just food for thought, YMMV.

Ride safe,
Bob