How stupid is it to try to replace fork oil without removing the forks?

[1KPerDay]

On forks with no drain plug?

[dinolee]

Pretty stupid.    But I'm sure with duct tape, a rubber hose, and a monkey, you should be able to McGyver something up that would work reasonably well.  Not sure what you'd use the duct tape for, but the hose and monkey should be self-explanatory.

[squeezer]

Just so we're clear:  He doesn't mean that you should hose the monkey.

[mxvet57]

are you serious?  

 the best way to change fork oil is to take the forks off and dump the oil out and then disassemble the forks and clean every thing.


that does remind me some one told me that he knew some one that could change fork seals with out taking the forks apart. this argument went on for a wile un till i told him if he could do it I'll pay for the job.  I've never talked or seen him since.

[veefer800canuck]

If you could get several strong friends and INVERT the motorcycle, it would work fine.  

[1KPerDay]

 

I was thinking of getting one of those oil suction thingies or rigging up a syphon hose or something. For some reason I REALLY don't want to take my forks apart. I have a longish trip in a couple of weeks and I'm afraid I won't be able to get it back together before then. It takes me forfrigginever to get anything done. And I still have to finish the valve clearance job, replace the shock and chain/sprockets, and bleed the brakes. *sigh*

[kevin_stevens]

are you serious?  

 the best way to change fork oil is to take the forks off and dump the oil out and then disassemble the forks and clean every thing.


that does remind me some one told me that he knew some one that could change fork seals with out taking the forks apart. this argument went on for a wile un till i told him if he could do it I'll pay for the job.  I've never talked or seen him since.

Why is it a bad idea?  There's two ways of getting the right amount of fork oil in there - carefully cleaning every last bit of the old stuff out, and measuring the replacement volume and not spilling ANY - or just dumping it in and measuring the resulting level, which is more what you care about anyway.  I don't see why a suction pump wouldn't do a reasonable job of getting 95% of the old oil out.

Your statement about "the best way" can be equally true, there's no inherent contradiction.

BTW, I *have* successfully changed fork seals on my K1200RS without disassembling the forks, so yes it can be done.  Why the hell that bike even HAD fork oil in it is still beyond my comprehension, and really irritates me every time I think about the work involved.

KeS

[Raphy]

Turkey baster, rubber hose, and a stiff hose...

ask me how i know...    

[LicketySplat]

Pretty stupid.    But I'm sure with duct tape, a rubber hose, and a monkey, you should be able to McGyver something up that would work reasonably well.  Not sure what you'd use the duct tape for, but the hose and monkey should be self-explanatory.

The duct tape would be to stick to any oil remaining on the inside of the forks, and pull it out.  

[bomber]

you'll never get anywhere near all the old oil out with the turkeybaster routine (you KNOW how I know), but, as a stop-gap measure to get ya through the end of the season, it's certainly better than hosing the monkey

less entertaining, though

[Raphy]

you'll never get anywhere near all the old oil out with the turkeybaster routine (you KNOW how I know)

Tha;s for sure - but the key is to have that stiff pipe in there... even with the groove in the fork tube, i got almost 95% of the oil out... if you just use the rubber bendy tubing only, it won't reach the grooved part of the fortube  

and yes, definately less entertaining than the monkey    

[mxvet57]

Why is it a bad idea?  There's two ways of getting the right amount of fork oil in there - carefully cleaning every last bit of the old stuff out, and measuring the replacement volume and not spilling ANY - or just dumping it in and measuring the resulting level, which is more what you care about anyway.  I don't see why a suction pump wouldn't do a reasonable job of getting 95% of the old oil out.

not true. the dirt and grime collect in the bottom of the forks and that is where the compression valving is located. also remember the internals of the fork is aluminum and that is constantly braking down. some time take your forks apart and let them stand up over night and see how much crap is siting on the bench in the morning. not to mention from the comp. valve to.

BTW, I *have* successfully changed fork seals on my K1200RS without disassembling the forks, so yes it can be done.  

 i stand corrected. i was referring to inverted forks not conventional.

[jed]

If you could get several strong friends and INVERT the motorcycle, it would work fine.  

You don't even need friends.  Rev it to redline and dump the clutch in first.  It'll flip right on over!

[spinmaster]

The best way is to fill the forks with Oil Dry or kitty litter (if you're feeling cheap) to soak up the oil.  Then us a shop vac to suck it all out.  Good luck.



































(this was a joke, don't actually try it )

[1KPerDay]

 

I'm stupid, but not THAT stupid.



BTW how do you change fork SEALS without disassembling the forks? I assume you still had to remove the lowers/sliders from the tubes, right? Or is there some new-fangled 2-piece split fork seal out there?

[kevin_stevens]

 

I'm stupid, but not THAT stupid.



BTW how do you change fork SEALS without disassembling the forks? I assume you still had to remove the lowers/sliders from the tubes, right? Or is there some new-fangled 2-piece split fork seal out there?

Yes, or rather remove the tubes.  Just loosen the triple tube clamps and pull the slider up.  You can do them one at a time and not even lift the front of the bike.  Remember my case is a Telelever front end, it doesn't even have springs or damping rods in there (which is why it @#$$#% me off that I *still* had to deal with oil and leaking seals!!)

KeS

[thatguy]

If the bike has an adjustable fork it has a cartridge.You MUST get all the oil out of the cartridge or it will have the damping of an empty dump truck and you will hit something.Or you could just leave the old oil in there until the fork wears out the bushings and it all leaks out on the front brake rotors and then you'll hit something.They don't have a drain plug for a reason dammit.

[Busy Little Whiner]

BTW how do you change fork SEALS without disassembling the forks? I assume you still had to remove the lowers/sliders from the tubes, right? Or is there some new-fangled 2-piece split fork seal out there?

I do all the time... with my home made two piece fork seal driver...

[Andrew]

Not that I recommend this but

1. Remove the front wheel, so that the fork tubes can be moved individually.
2. Remove the fork caps and springs
3. Use a suction pump to remove as much oil as you can.
4. Add fresh oil to the fork tubes .
5. Push the forks up and then pull down several times (this will get the old oil to mix with the new stuff)
6. Suck out the oil, as much as you can using the suction pump.
7. Repeat steps 4 & 5 & 6 at least two more times or until the oil comes out clean.
8. Fill the forks to proper level.
9. Reinstall the springs, caps and front wheel

You may not have gotten all of the oil, but this should get you through a few more miles.

[LicketySplat]

Ummmm. I'm not sure I get this about "a few more miles..." Like, how often do y'all change your fork oil? Granted on my Sportster I had to change the fork oil every time I changed the engine oil, else there would be an awful wobble in hard corners... but on a modern bike it's good for 10-15K done right, no?

[1KPerDay]

Well, the original oil's been good for about 21K...


Actually, it was "good" for about 16K.

[servicerifle]

Come on man, stop wussin' out.  I know you want to erect some sort of pulleys and cables contraption in your garage so you can hang you bike upside down.  Just go with it!  

[dalan]

Well, the original oil's been good for about 21K...


Actually, it was "good" for about 16K.

I got you beat 1K, my ZZR now has 31k on it and the forks haven't been touched.  The seals aren't leaking and the front end still feels OK.  Yeah, bad, I know, but I just can't seem to find the time to do it.  Soon... I promise.  I also have a set of Galfer braided brake lines that I'm going to put on when I have the front apart to do the forks.

I'm afraid to see what kind of hideous sludge comes out of the forks when I do finally get around to it...    

[1KPerDay]

I'm betting mine's going to be a solid cylinder of goo...

[Thor]

I got you beat 1K, my ZZR now has 31k on it and the forks haven't been touched.  The seals aren't leaking and the front end still feels OK.  Yeah, bad, I know, but I just can't seem to find the time to do it.  Soon... I promise.  I also have a set of Galfer braided brake lines that I'm going to put on when I have the front apart to do the forks.

I'm afraid to see what kind of hideous sludge comes out of the forks when I do finally get around to it...    

The smell is the worst part!!

[mxvet57]

The smell is the worst part!!

  like fish oil

[dalan]

  like fish oil

What kind of fish?  I like kippers and sardines, so maybe I'll like it!  

[1KPerDay]

That reminds me... I haven't had kippers or sardines for about 10 years. Gotta get some.

[dalan]

So anyway, back on topic:  what kind of fish oil is best to use to refill the forks?  Cod liver?  Kipper juice seems to be a pretty good viscosity also.  Hmmmm....  

[Andrew]

Cotton seed oil  

[Mr Sunshine]

Just as an FYI I had considered doing this with my SV race bike.  The reason why is the need to be able to tune the damping in my forks and without clickers you do it with oil viscousity.  This would be much faster than disassembling my entire front end.  In the case of my race SV I'm not concerned about getting rid of 100% of the oil nor getting rid of junk the fork left from use cause that fork oil doesn't really stay in it for much more than a couple hundred miles.  

[GregS]

I haven't seen forks that didn't have a drain somewhere. For instance my Suzuki has a drain but to access it you must remove the axle and thus the wheel. Completely disassembling the forks is a very nice thought but not very practical unless you rarely change the oil.

[1KPerDay]

I haven't seen forks that didn't have a drain somewhere.

Well, they exist. The only nut below the GPz forks is the one that secures the damper rod assembly. Yes, if you manage to loosen it (while securing the assy inside with the factory tool or something you rig up) and remove it, the forks might sort of drain if you manage to get the assy out of the way of the hole without buggering it up, but if you're going to mess with that and with getting it all back together again properly, you may as well pull the seal retainer and dissassemble the fork properly. There's not a SEPARATE drain plug/hole from the main assembly hole, in other words. On some bikes there is.

[LENSMAN]

Assuming you have a center stand and a manual for torque settings, your best bet is still taking the forks off.  It's not that hard. You may have to make a ramp (plywood & bricks) to get the front tire off the ground. My way? Take it to the shop.

[highside]

The biggest hassle of getting the forks off in the first place is removing the front wheel. If your gonna do that anyways you might as well just finish and do it right. If you have a centerstand you can probably get away with just using a jack to raise the front end. What I used to do was I would just have a friend push down on the passenger seat to lever up the front end while I put some stands underneath to support it. With practice I could do this myself.

[LENSMAN]

Forgot to add: Go to SVrider, there is a wealth of tech info- probably have what you're looking for; also www.motorcyclistonline.com.  

Haste makes waste. Short cuts cause more problems than they solve.   That's what you'll feel like doing to yourself if your short cut doesn't work.

Changing fork oil isn't simple, I call it near to shop level work. I don't recommend installing a drain plug. It would vibrate loose after time.

[Mr Sunshine]

Changing fork oil isn't simple, I call it near to shop level work. I don't recommend installing a drain plug. It would vibrate loose after time.

Changing fork oil in an SV fork is dead simple...its just a little bit more involved than changing the oil in your engine due to having to take apart the front end.

But I race and do my own maintance...so take it for what it is worth.

[Andrew]

Changing fork oil isn't simple, I call it near to shop level work. I don't recommend installing a drain plug. It would vibrate loose after time.
[/quote
 

You are kidding, right???  

[LENSMAN]

Nope- You have to get enough clearance to slide it free. That's the tough part - getting room.

[Mr Sunshine]

Nope- You have to get enough clearance to slide it free. That's the tough part - getting room.

Hun? Getting enough room to slide it free?  Slide what free?  

[ctfz1]

Cartridge forks and many current bikes eliminated drain plugs. Aligning damping adjusters (and preload parts with same) can require instruction manual. On Gen1 FZ1 aligning travel damper at bottom of fork, and tightening rod assembly not simple (not difficult once done).