There is a fine ethical balance between enjoying some serious curve surfing and

[forester]

There is a fine ethical balance between enjoying some serious curve surfing and respecting other motorists' (typically car and truck drivers, or "cagers" if you will) rights to drive down the road at the "smell the daisies" pace.  Should sport-touring riders establish "suggested guidelines" for those to loosely follow?  Since hardly anyone ever follows public road laws strictly (maybe 1% of the population?), and Sport-touring riders have a tendency to follow the laws even less, why not come up with our own set of guidelines?

Poll and/or discuss.

[garry]

Behave yourself around civilization. Have some safe fun out in the boonies but don't be an asshat. I will pass anytime I feel it's safe (good sight lines, no/few driveways or intersections, especially on the left) out in the boonies if it's a good road. If the road doesn't warrant making an illegal pass, I'll just cool my jets, look at the scenery, and wait for a legal passing zone. If the pace is much less than the speed limit, I'm likely to pass at the first safe opportunity.

[Sarchi]

Don't pass at 2x the motorist's speed..it freaks them out.  Do pass when you can, most people seem to get nervous seeing you in their rear view for too long.  Wave as you go by.

[Snowbird]

Behave yourself around civilization. Have some safe fun out in the boonies but don't be an asshat. I will pass anytime I feel it's safe (good sight lines, no/few driveways or intersections, especially on the left) out in the boonies if it's a good road. If the road doesn't warrant making an illegal pass, I'll just cool my jets, look at the scenery, and wait for a legal passing zone. If the pace is much less than the speed limit, I'm likely to pass at the first safe opportunity.

Well said. That's about how I ride.  

[jschmidt]

Live a little!

[forester]

Live a little!

How so?

[forester]

My thoughts regarding this were stemming from group rides I've been on in the past.  If ma & pa are out for a country drive and are in a place that has frequent curves, but are approximating the speed limit, don't you think it might be a bad thing to do from a public relations aspect to blow by them in a double yellow?

I mean, can you imagine for a minute what they think/say to their friends "those crazy disrespectful kids on those crotch rockets passed us in a double yellow section of the road, they are completely nuts"... and their friends respond, "maybe we can get Representative Smith to sponser some legislation to get those dangerous sport bikers off of the road"...

Shouldn't there be some sort of consideration of how non-ST riders are viewing our actions to ensure that conversations like the above don't take place?  Is it a smart idea to just not give a shit what they think and treat the public roads like you own them and cars as if they're moving cones in an obstacle course?

From my own perspective, I think passing on a double yellow is okay (not legal of course, but certainly practical) if someone is really poking around and no other oncoming cars are present and conditions are good, but when cars are oncoming (even if you have enough "time" to get around the pokey car), I wouldn't do it simply because I realize most drivers do not like the idea of a car heading towards them in their lane.

I think that the intensity of one rider really putting thrills first (e.g. really, limitless curve surfing/speeding without respecting other vehicles) could stand a good chance to increase the negative perception of non-riders so that it will get people talking.  I also think the frequency of occurences of rider's disrespect for the road laws that non-riders witness will also get them talking.

Non-riders talking is a potentially bad thing for our sport.  How can we ensure that these people don't go out of their way to try and buck our curve-surfing enjoyment by supporting legislation that would restrict those experiences?  

Is it possible to come to some sort of universal agreement among sport-tourers?

[jschmidt]

 How so?

You decide. That's the point really. Tight-asses rule the world because fun-loving people concern themselves with not being offensive. Fuck 'em. When riding, I use a different set of rules than the ones on signs.

[bluepoof]

I don't pass on double yellow, and truth be told, I don't much like riding with people who do.  

Has nothing to do with the painted line, though, and more to do with knowing someone who died being hit head-on from a car rounding a curve over the center line.  We have LOTS of curves in the mountain roads I ride, and there are very very few times where a rider can actually see far enough ahead to know that a double-line passing is safe.

I fully realize this event has nothing whatsoever to do with normal riders out passing Ma and Pa Kettle on a straightaway; it's just an emotional reaction at this point.  

I guess I'm a tight-ass, really, because I generally obey all posted signs (with slight modifications in the area of speed limit, but even then, I'm usually pretty close).  I totally ride like a grandma.  

[Bodhi]

I don't like passing on double yellows either. I try to ride where car trafic is light and wait for the opportunity to pass. The only time I'll risk passing on a double yellow is if the car or RV or whatever is driving way below the speed limit.

[forester]

You decide. That's the point really. Tight-asses rule the world because fun-loving people concern themselves with not being offensive. Fuck 'em. When riding, I use a different set of rules than the ones on signs.

 Man you're a tough bastage!    ...so are you a loose-ass (wide reciever maybe)?    So, what are your rules?

[forester]

I don't pass on double yellow, and truth be told, I don't much like riding with people who do.  

Has nothing to do with the painted line, though, and more to do with knowing someone who died being hit head-on from a car rounding a curve over the center line.  We have LOTS of curves in the mountain roads I ride, and there are very very few times where a rider can actually see far enough ahead to know that a double-line passing is safe.

I fully realize this event has nothing whatsoever to do with normal riders out passing Ma and Pa Kettle on a straightaway; it's just an emotional reaction at this point.  

I guess I'm a tight-ass, really, because I generally obey all posted signs (with slight modifications in the area of speed limit, but even then, I'm usually pretty close).  I totally ride like a grandma.  

My emotional reaction is that I would probably pass you.  
...but seeing as how I'm not a total asshole (maybe just 50%), I would do it in a passing zone.  

[TalkingHead]

I only have two comments: 1. Passing on a double yellow is fine provided the car you see in the distance isn't a state trooper. 2. The comment about not passing cages at double their speed is a good one, most people carry cell phones now.

[bluepoof]

My emotional reaction is that I would probably pass you.  
...but seeing as how I'm not a total asshole (maybe just 50%), I would do it in a passing zone.  

Fine by me!  If I see other riders coming up quickly behind me, I pull over onto the shoulder and wave them past. Just because *I* ride like a grandma doesn't mean everyone has to!

[forester]

Fine by me!  If I see other riders coming up quickly behind me, I pull over onto the shoulder and wave them past. Just because *I* ride like a grandma doesn't mean everyone has to!

   I wish more vehicle operators would do that!

[Stripes]

I will tend to pass on a double yellow if I can see there are no cars coming, especially when I know once I twist the throttle I'll be around the car in about a second and a half or so. I only will pass on a double yellow when I can see that the road conditions are in good order as well. Most everyone I ride with will pass on a double yellow, but if they wish not to, the group will slow down just a little so when the rider has a legal or safe chance to pass, they can catch up. I also do not pass on double yellows when I am leading a group larger than 3 or 4 bikes. Other than that I try to make my ride as enjoyable as possible, and if I piss off a few drivers in their cages, oh well, as long as it's not a cop!!!

[Dichotomous]

in VT the double yellow does not mean "do not pass" it means "passing is not recomended"  so its legal to pass the guy going 40 in a 50 as long as its clear and you are not speeding.  what does this mean to me?  means I make that line my B17cH!!!  huzzah!  
well ok not really, but if someone is being a dork in their speed I'll pass them if its PLENTY clear and I know its clear and all is well, otherwise I flash my lights and have a whole bunch of fun with the horn button.  BTW this comes from living on a commuter route and commuting 45 miles a day and 20miles of that is on a 50mph road where people drive 40 most of the time, so the horn and highbeams get plenty of work.  (I dont tailgate though, tailgating is invasion of safe space, not just annoying them into pulling over, in fact I throw things at people that tailgate me)

[kevin_stevens]

I don't pass on double yellow, and truth be told, I don't much like riding with people who do.  

Has nothing to do with the painted line, though, and more to do with knowing someone who died being hit head-on from a car rounding a curve over the center line.  We have LOTS of curves in the mountain roads I ride, and there are very very few times where a rider can actually see far enough ahead to know that a double-line passing is safe.

I don't disagree with the principle, I follow my own guidelines of not passing if I can't see the road clear for the distance of the pass.  Problem is that the double yellows are often so conservative that strictly honoring them virtually precludes passing on a lot of the two-lanes locally.  You just end up with stacked-up traffic.  I have begun treating double-yellows as warning signs, that the engineers think there may be an unexpected passing hazard.  It's also interesting that there are areas that are NOT safe to pass during the day that ARE at night because of headlights being visible.

On a similar topic, it's hard to consider speed limits absolute from a safety perspective when they post a single maximum speed for all conditions.  I remember when growing up in Houston that a lot of roads had separate day/night speed limits, haven't seen one of those since.

KeS

[Snowbird]

We have LOTS of curves in the mountain roads I ride, and there are very very few times where a rider can actually see far enough ahead to know that a double-line passing is safe.

The curves where I usually ride are more sweeping, so I pass (if "safe")... but in you case (tighter curves) I do not.

I also do not pass on double yellows when I am leading a group larger than 3 or 4 bikes.

Agreed. Smaller groups ar better in this regard.

Problem is that the double yellows are often so conservative that strictly honoring them virtually precludes passing on a lot of the two-lanes locally.  You just end up with stacked-up traffic.

Yup.

otherwise I flash my lights and have a whole bunch of fun with the horn button.

I don't warn them... they just notice they were just passed. Warning them gives certain asses the opportunity to try something stupid to block you. The previously  initiated usually see me coming and allow me to cruise by... I never make a high rpm full throttle pass. Sorta like this:

I will tend to pass on a double yellow if I can see there are no cars coming, especially when I know once I twist the throttle I'll be around the car in about a second and a half or so

Watch for driveways and intersections... if present wait. (As previously stated.)

And, if the law is reading... No, I never pass on the DY, why?

[atypical1]

Is it possible to come to some sort of universal agreement among sport-tourers?

Funniest line ever!

I consider myself pretty safe but I do ride at a pretty good clip. I will definitely pass on a DY if it is safe to do so and if the slower vehicle won't move over for me. I always wave and someone who let's me by. That shows a lot of common courtesy on their part and I truly appreciate it (especially when lane splitting!).

I think there is a big difference between passing on a DY that is around a blind curve and a DY in an area that has good visibility. I absolutely agree on the DY's being ultra conservative. Even a mildly powered bike has enough power to make some pretty quick passes.