BMW 800 full magazine test

[goodhawk]

Hi.  this may be a duplicate, I posted about 4 hours ago, didn't see it listed.  Good to have STN back.
New BMW 800 - finally found a full test - English BIKE magazine, comparo with Suzuki SV 650, Yamaha 900  ( all half fairings)
a few results
Tested wet weight - BMW  206 kg    SV 650  193
tested rear wheel HP   BMW 800   84    SV 650   70   Yam. 900   71  ( ! ?)
tested  1 /4 mile    BMW   12.35    SV   13.5     TDM   13.0
average mileage   BMW  55 mpg.    SV   50    TDM   46
 
a few comments from mag  ( not exact quotes)   ' BMW seemed very nimble in side to side transitions in the sequences '( track)   'excell. engine - BMW'   ' typical  clunky BMW gearbox'   ' BMW has higher H'bars'  (also, they made a note that the BMW had a noticably high seat, maybe they got the optional high seat?)  " SV gives more smiles per mile'
the mag. testers split between the SV and BMW in preference, strongly price related.
This is key - In English mags,  BMW 800 is priced less than the GSXR 600 types.  IF  BMW U.S. brings it over with ' price gouging' . . .
I was concerned, looking at stats, that the fuel tank was a gal. too small. It seems to have excel. Injection.  55 mpg, mag said ' over 60 mpg on casual highway riding' - So that's an effective range of 180, maybe 200 miles before reserve.  good.   The 1 /4 mile time for Suzuki SV 650 looks poor, should be about 12.7 ?  maybe track was dusty, or the tester had reactions like me.  as long as the results were equalized, test comparo wise. And how does Yamaha get  71 HP  out of a 900 cc with fuel  inject and 5 valve heads???

[DogBoy]

1) BMW has already announced US prices for F800s:  $9,900 per the BMW USA website.

2) UK (Imperial?) gallons are slightly larger than US gallons so its difficult to compare mpg. What BIKE reports for tank range will be accurate but not mpg.

3) That Yamaha engine is 900 is tuned for midrange not max hp. The torque and hp curves from a dyno chart would be more useful than peak hp figures. Also, the HP numbers could be wrong as it seems like the SV 1/4 mile times are slow than reported elsewhere.

[goodhawk]

I didn't see that BMW put up it's spring list.  good grief.  almost ten thous. ? that's absurd, $1500. more than it should be. So much fer that, I'd rather have an FZ1 or speed triple, maybe even an SV 1000  or z 1000. Can't think of a Honda that's similar.
Wonder if Aprilias new 750 ( monster style) will make it over at a decent price.?
edit - list price, English  BIKE mag. ,may  06  GSXR 600 = 6800 ( pounds ?, U.S. list  about  $ 8900.)
Tri  675   7200  ( pounds )   List ,  Bike mag.   Nov.  06   BMW 800 =6000 ( pounds ?)  So what can be extra cost - shipping, I don't have a clue. large container commercial shipping, $200. per bike ?  what else, I'd guess Euro environmental sandards may be tougher than DOT. . .

[1moreroad]

455 pounds (100 pounds lighter than the VFR and just 15 pounds heavier than my 600)
A whisker better tank range than my 600
85 hp
60 lb ft of torque and lots of low end torque.
Belt drive, not chain
Real sportbike tires, not skinny stuff
Does $9900 include ABS? If so, it's $1000 cheaper than the VFR.
 
If those balancers really do smooth out the engine (I generally dislike twins and I had said I would not own another parallel twin after my EX500), I might see my next bike....
 
EDITED TO ADD: ABS is $900.  Heated grips are $235 (can you say Dual Stars).  Still would be interesting to me.  Nice to also see that the specs BMW quotes are within 2 lb ft and 5 pounds of what BIKE measured.
 
They're obviously taking a shot at the VFR.

[baldheadeddork]

They're obviously taking a shot at the VFR.

Great, now the Sprint ST can make another bike look underpowered, overweight and overpriced. Well played, BMW, well played.

[Lawn Dart]

BMW's plays it's own game.  If you don't like it, then don't buy it.  The truth of the matter is that BMW sells more than enough bikes to stay profitable.  If they elect to charge a premium for their bikes, so be it.

[baldheadeddork]

Does "playing their own game" mean they are above criticism from we mere mortals?

And BTW, weren't you one of the people giving me shit on the old board for predicting that the non-ABS F800S would probably come in at ten grand?

[gritsngravy]

I agree the bmw is too much for the average american rider with a family, mortgage etc.   Bikes largely here in the U.S. are purchased for FUN and generally cheap fun beats expensive fun on most days.

[Busy Little Whiner]

As soon as the new BMW 800 gets here the sooner I may complete Mr.RC45s belt drive conversion...

[county]

BMW's plays it's own game. If you don't like it, then don't buy it. The truth of the matter is that BMW sells more than enough bikes to stay profitable. If they elect to charge a premium for their bikes, so be it.

 
Actually BMW plays Harleys game.  As evidenced by your quote..."if you don't like it, then don't  buy it"  
 
BMW sells image and aftermarket parts gear etc.  Much like Harley, they make a good product that has an image and identity that comes with the bike.  And has followers who just don't want to hear factual discussion of the product.
 
The most significant aspect of this 800 is the belt drive, oh how I wish there were more belt drive bikes out there.

[Chumly]

BMW's plays it's own game. If you don't like it, then don't buy it. The truth of the matter is that BMW sells more than enough bikes to stay profitable. If they elect to charge a premium for their bikes, so be it.

I am far from convinced that in Canada or even in the US, "BMW sells more than enough bikes to stay profitable".
 
I am nowhere near as confident as you claim that BMW can "play it's own game". I would argue that if BMW sold few bikes in Europe, BMW would not be able to maintain the profit margins you suggest in the US and Canada, and would not be able to "play it's own game".
 
In fact, I will go as far as saying that in certain parts of Canada and the US, BMW maintains a market presence at the expense of overall profitability, and does do for the same reasons any company might do so: maintaining marketability requires a nominal level of units sold.
 
For example, here in British Columbia Canada the one and only domestic land line telecommunications company is called Telus. Telus' cellular business is sponsored by their (government regulated monopoly) domestic land lines. Thus if Telus did not have this government regulated cash cow monopoly on domestic land lines, but had to still maintain their overpaid unionized deadwood cost structure, they would soon go out of businesses in the cellular market.
 
Have a look at the cost of an ST1300 in Germany compared to the equivalent BMW (there really is no BMW equivalent for starters) and then do the same comparison of the two bikes in the US. It's clear the ST1300 is being hobbled price-wise in Germany by duties and other restrictive (less obvious) measures, thus decreasing ST1300 sales volume, and increasing ST1300 sales prices. BMW's success lies in part on protectionism, just like Telus.
 
I also question whether "BMW sells more than enough bikes to stay profitable" and could "play it's own game" if it were not for it's auto division which is somewhat akin to Telus's cash cow monopoly on domestic land lines.
 
Many companies outside of BMW and Telus employ somewhat similar tactics, and the US and Canada are far from exempt from tax sponsorship and protectionism tactics. As a further example look into Peugeot and ask: why they are so popular in France and certain parts of Europe, but virtually unheard of in North America? It's another protectionist business model.
 
To suggest that "If they elect to charge a premium for their bikes, so be it" somehow means BMW can write it's own ticket, oversimplifies the issue greatly. Let's not forget the lack of efficacy when protectionism reared its ugly head in the US, and Honda simply made a large number of motorcycles with 700 cc engines instead of 750 cc engines.
 
For starters, read up on:
 
Taking America for a Ride: The Politics of Motorcycle Tariffs
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa032.html

[1moreroad]

Okay, quick Google search took me to Webbikeworld for stats.  Don't have the MCN 2006 sales stats handy, sorry.
 
Triumph sold 7500 motorcycles in all of 2004.  BMW sold 7900 motorcycles in September, 2006.  The companies by sales volumes are not comparable.
 
The Sprint ST weighs 100 pounds more than the BMW.  It has a chain drive.  It gets hot under the seat (maybe a benefit for riders who live north of me?).  It costs the $1000 more.  Like other Triumphs it had its introductory teething problems (leaky bags).  Yep, sounds like a slam dunk to me.
 
The Sprint is not all that.  It's a viable choice among several good but not great bikes.

[county]

Stats schmats, BMW is the Yuppie Harley.  Large on image, short on substance for the dollar.
 
However, used models are frequently a good value.

[Orson]

BMW is the Yuppie Harley.

lol...hadn't heard that one before:lol:

[Dichotomous]

for the price of the Bimmer you could get an sv650, put a full system exhaust, K&N air filter and shop tune to get it up to over 75hp, throw GSXR suspension on it, switch to belt final drive, and buy your riding gear too.  then you'd have a better cornering bike that weighs much less, accelerates the same with gearing ratio worked out, sounds wickedly awsome, and gets the same gas milage.  but it does require a little work on your part, so straight out its not the same.  but then again you could pick up an SV1000 still for less, and resticker it as a 650, and have a good ol' sleeper right there

[Chumly]

Okay, quick Google search took me to Webbikeworld for stats. Don't have the MCN 2006 sales stats handy, sorry.

Triumph sold 7500 motorcycles in all of 2004. BMW sold 7900 motorcycles in September, 2006. The companies by sales volumes are not comparable.

The Sprint ST weighs 100 pounds more than the BMW. It has a chain drive. It gets hot under the seat (maybe a benefit for riders who live north of me?). It costs the $1000 more. Like other Triumphs it had its introductory teething problems (leaky bags). Yep, sounds like a slam dunk to me.

The Sprint is not all that. It's a viable choice among several good but not great bikes.

Nope, you are confused my friend, there is no such thing as a Sprint ST1300. I was of course referring to the Honda ST1300 not the Triumph Sprint ST @ 1050 cc's. Not only do you have the wrong brand and model of bike, your price comparison appears to be as per US specs and not on German soil as per my references, plus you don't even say what BMW you make in comparison to the ST1300. Recheck your specs!

Again:

Have a look at the cost of an ST1300 in Germany compared to the equivalent BMW (there really is no BMW equivalent for starters) and then do the same comparison of the two bikes in the US. It's clear the ST1300 is being hobbled price-wise in Germany by duties and other restrictive (less obvious) measures, thus decreasing ST1300 sales volume, and increasing ST1300 sales prices. BMW's success lies in part on protectionism, just like Telus.
 
I also question whether "BMW sells more than enough bikes to stay profitable" and could "play it's own game" if it were not for it's auto division which is somewhat akin to Telus's cash cow monopoly on domestic land lines.

[1moreroad]

And if I was replying to you, you'd have a point.  I was replying to a previous poster about the Triumph Sprint.  The post is about the F800, like the topic says.
 
You are right, the ST1300 is in a different category altogether.  It's heavy and a little sporty.  It's got one of the longest tank ranges and one of the larges GVWRs of any bike on the road.  But at 700-ish pounds, it is NOT a lightweight sport-touring bike.  
 
The BMW F800 is taking aim at the VFR in price and appears to be a viable alternative for buyers without preconceived notions of BMWs (or any other brand).

[Chumly]

Oh, your post followed mine and you did not quote your poster, so I exhumed!

[icepic]

The BMW has sounded quite good to me untill I read this post. After that and a quick review of the BMW website I'm leaning towards a Buell Firebolt for the next bike. I like the idea of belt drive and but would rather have the added HP of the Buell. Just need to do the test ride thing.

[cbsnbiker]

One nitpick:
 

Triumph sold 7500 motorcycles in all of 2004. BMW sold 7900 motorcycles in September, 2006. The companies by sales volumes are not comparable.
 

When was that in relation to the Triumph factory fire?

[cbsnbiker]

Goodhawk, do you have a link to the article? I didn't find it in a (brief) search.

[goodhawk]

Sorry, I bought the mag. at a book store - barnes & noble - current issue, English  BIKE  mag.

[Oilhed]

For those of you saying BMW is this or Harley is that you must consider pre '90's or post '90's.  Pre '90's Harley's were unreliable, WERE!  Pre '90's BMWs were indestructable, WERE!
 
I would buy a new Harley without a second thought if I could afford it.  If I wanted a bike I could ride for years and thousands of miles for a reasonable price I would buy a used '80's BMW.  Maybe early '90's.

[Lon]

Stats schmats, BMW is the Yuppie Harley.  Large on image, short on substance for the dollar.
 
However, used models are frequently a good value.

Wait, I know! You mean that the Honda ST1300 ABS at $15,499 is $1500 cheaper than the R1200RT because it has significantly more substance!  That's why it weighs 150lbs more?

Actually... I really was just joking here; I can't find any other competitively-priced BMWs.  The RT is the exception to the rule.  For example, the beautiful Yamaha FJR1300A costs over $5,000 less than the K1200GT

I own a BMW.  I bought it used, and I still think that the bang:buck ratio was out of whack.  I like my bike anyway, and I don't really care so much about the initial cost anymore (used, it was a way better deal than new).  That said, given the price of new BMWs, the chances of me ever owning a new one are close to zero...

[Prubert]

I priced out a F800ST with Luggage, ABS, Heated Grips, Centerstand and the On-Board Computer at it came to $13,400.  About 1K more over a VFR with ABS.

I would have to ride one to see how they ride....

[Rogue]

The BMW has sounded quite good to me untill I read this post. After that and a quick review of the BMW website I'm leaning towards a Buell Firebolt for the next bike. I like the idea of belt drive and but would rather have the added HP of the Buell. Just need to do the test ride thing.

The Buell Firebolt plays to a different audience.
 
Much sportier than the F800, even in its "sport" form.
 
The F800 does have features not found in the Buell. The option of heated grips, 12V socket(s), ABS, and much easier to mount bags on because the factory already designed them in. PLus, the buyer has the option of sport or tourer. So there's something there...sadly, I think the F800 will be lost in the NA market. Over here, a sensible motorcycle just doesn't sell well. It needs to have street credibility, look sexy, come in bright colors, lots of power, etc. And in the absences of that, it needs to be cheap. The BMW is in a price range that competes against many other motorcycles that look sexier, are faster, and easier to access (more dealers). It will however, make a good entry level bike for a high end seller like BMW. I'll bet though that BMW will sell more of their Roadsters than the F800.

[jsanford]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. SVs and Viffers may be this and that.

Saw a fire engine red one at the IMS last week. It's the only bike at the show I sat on three times. It's the only bike at the show I looked for the location of the oil filter to make sure it wasn't someplace stupid.

The bike fit me perfectly. The mirrors, gauges, etc. are all in just the right places.

It has a luggage rack for my Givi sidecases, engine guard, heated grips, ABS.

And I already own a red jacket.

[dflow]

Wait, I know! You mean that the Honda ST1300 ABS at $15,499 is $1500 cheaper than the R1200RT because it has significantly more substance! That's why it weighs 150lbs more?
 
Actually... I really was just joking here; I can't find any other competitively-priced BMWs. The RT is the exception to the rule. For example, the beautiful Yamaha FJR1300A costs over $5,000 less than the K1200GT
 
I own a BMW. I bought it used, and I still think that the bang:buck ratio was out of whack. I like my bike anyway, and I don't really care so much about the initial cost anymore (used, it was a way better deal than new). That said, given the price of new BMWs, the chances of me ever owning a new one are close to zero...

I agree with Lon. The prices of BMWs have been out of reach. It is hard to justify when there are many other good options available. I have owned BMWs exclusively for 20 years now but haven't seen the value in it lately. I'll most likely keep what I have now and add other makes from here on. BTW, I have a '99 R11SA and have been considering restoring my '84 R100. Where I go from there is anyones guess.

[ctfz1]

Cult bike that can be expensive, some offer fun over performance, some just manage to become annoying. Like the Siamese in a certain film. You can find a home on BMWs or a rack. Best bought used from someone who spent more time on accessories than rides.