2008 Honda AMA Team

[maddjack]

Duhammel and Hodgson
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Sep/070906a.htm

[keystonejenks]

What about Zemke? He's having a good season this year. Maybe I missed something.

[Gaolee]

No kidding!  Where would Zemke land.  MotoGP maybe?  SBK?

[veefer800canuck]

No kidding!  Where would Zemke land.  MotoGP maybe?  SBK?

Unf, Zemke's performance has not been enough to warrant such a move.


He'll likely be looking for a seat on another Mfgr, probably riding supersport or superstock.


Yamaha may have openings for next season. The Boz Bros and Jason DiSalvo all have their contracts due at the end of '07.

Suzuki, no way, no openings.

Kawasaki, maybe, if Hacking packs it in. He hinted at shutting it down at Road Atlanta (at least in the supersport class).


'Now be a good boy and get that podium like we talked about ...'

[Mr Sunshine]

Read this thread.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=151468

Page 13 is where it gets interesting.  

[DogBoy]

Read this thread.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=151468

Page 13 is where it gets interesting.  

That was entertaining as hell.  

[Mr Sunshine]

That was entertaining as hell.  

Yeah the WERA forum has its moments.  

[DFH]

Duhammel and Hodgson
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Sep/070906a.htm

I don't get it... factory backed domestic supersport and superbike teams should be all about fostering new talent. In nations without strong 125cc and 250cc GP bike domestic competitions their place is at the START of a career chain. Domestic supersport privateer, wins becomes factory SS rider. Wins as factory SS rider, becomes factory Superbike rider. Wins as domestic Superbike, moves to world superstock or world supersport. Wins as world SS, does WSBK. Wins at WSBK. Moves to MotoGP...

Think Vermeulen, Bayliss, Hayden, Edwards, even Doohan. All started this way.

Two washed up, old, ex WSBK and GP riders in the one team... thats criminal.

DFH

[Mr Sunshine]

DFH a factory backed team is all about winning not bringing up youngsters...so you got it backwards.

[Mookie]

I like Hogsen and think he'd make an excellent B rider/development rider and he deserves another shot at riding a factory bike.  

I just don't understand why they keep pushing for Miguel over all the young talented riders.  Sure he's great, but he's definitely over the hill and after his GP debacle and now his major injuries, I just don't understand why they don't give a young gun a shot.  It's not like they were winning races with Miguel  

[DFH]

DFH a factory backed team is all about winning not bringing up youngsters...so you got it backwards.

Not in my part of the world.... All the factory backed teams run "new-talent" as a matter of course. Have a look at all the Australian riders in WSBK, WSS, Euro Superstock, BSBK, BSS, BSStock etc and you will see they all and sucess in distributor backed teams in the domestic series then off to Europe they go. Been like that for decades

It is a chicken before the egg argument but the local factory teams need to foster new talent because the young riders only stick around for a few years anyway.

DFH

[Mr Sunshine]

Not in my part of the world.... All the factory backed teams run "new-talent" as a matter of course. Have a look at all the Australian riders in WSBK, WSS, Euro Superstock, BSBK, BSS, BSStock etc and you will see they all and sucess in distributor backed teams in the domestic series then off to Europe they go. Been like that for decades

It is a chicken before the egg argument but the local factory teams need to foster new talent because the young riders only stick around for a few years anyway.

DFH

Yeah but your riders come over to America to run the AMA because it is such a prestigis series (sorry about the spelling).

[veefer800canuck]

I like Hogsen and think he'd make an excellent B rider/development rider and he deserves another shot at riding a factory bike.  

I just don't understand why they keep pushing for Miguel over all the young talented riders.  Sure he's great, but he's definitely over the hill and after his GP debacle and now his major injuries, I just don't understand why they don't give a young gun a shot.  It's not like they were winning races with Miguel  

His GP ride wasn't really a debacle. He had absolutely zero setup time, and trying to get used to the electronics package on a modern GP bike is really tough, even for a seasoned racer.

It sounded to me like he had them disable the auto-blip for downshifts and was shifting it like a supersport bike.

None of the other 211V's sounded like miguel coming into turn 2.

Parking the bike was the smartest thing he could have done. He had a full season in the AMA to think about. No sense crashing out of last place, dicing with Kurtis Roberts and risking injury. I think he did the right thing.


Now somebody is going to bring up Tommy Hayden. Yeah, he finished 10th. Great effort. He's also a lot younger, hungrier, and willing to stick his neck in the vise for a little spotlight and maybe a GP ride in the future.


He also had the luxury of flying to Japan ahead of Laguna to test the ZX-RR, something that Miguel didn't have.

I think the first time Miguel swung a leg over the 211V was Friday. Race on Sunday.


How do you think Yates would have done if Vermeulen or Hopper were injured and Suzuki threw him on the GSVR Friday at 10 am? Mladin, maybe a bit better because he's ridden the GP Suzuki's in offseason testing at Sepang.

[arkansawyer]

When Miguel fell he was the top non team Suzuki rider in AMA SB.  Doesn't sound old and washed up to me.

[DFH]

Yeah but your riders come over to America to run the AMA because it is such a prestigis series (sorry about the spelling).

Only the ones that had a tilt at the world scene and did'nt make the grade.... Mladin, Gobert ( all of 'em), Scott Doohan. Supports my theory that the guys doing the hiring and firing in the AMA factory teams pay more creedence to that old Ellis Is quote "send us your tired, your week, your downtrodden....   or something like that.

Still in all seriousness how can the world expect to see the next Schwantz, Edwards, Rainey etc with this policy. Apart from Nicky Hayden name any other world class competitor from the US that had any factory seat in the AMA series in the last 15 years? Hopper did it the hard way as a privateer remember.

Just food for thought...

DFH

[LicketySplat]

Apart from Nicky Hayden name any other world class competitor from the US that had any factory seat in the AMA series in the last 15 years? Hopper did it the hard way as a privateer remember.

Oh geez, did Edwards go up that long ago? I feel old. As for Anthony G. and Ben B., their lack of greater success on the World scene had more to do with the same issues that have plagued them in AMA than with anything intrinsic to the AMA. And if you really mean "any" factory seat, don't forget Corser and Bayliss.

Also, Ulrich's team is about as "hard way privateer" as Jordan's. No, it's not the factory, but it's not you and your mom and dad in a van, not by a long shot.

IMO what you're talking about has more to do with the AMA being such a well-paying series (salaries and sponsorships obviously, not the pathetic purses). Young riders stay here because, well, how many 17 year olds want to turn down a sure thing of several hundred thou' and a good shot at a pretty prestigious championship, versus dragging their parents' (possibly nonexistent) bank accounts all to h*ll and gone on a long shot? Conversely, what older rider wants to turn down a sure thing of several hundred thou' and a good shot at a pretty prestigious championship, versus dragging the wife and kids and their own worn out bodies all to h*ll and gone on a long shot? The life of a World Championship rider is exhausting before you even add in the "real" parts like training and racing.

(Just by way of a parallel example, look what's going on now with the F1 drivers coming to settle in NASCAR. Same thing: really good money on half the hassle. When you're talking AMA vs. FIM, it's more like *better* money for most riders, on a *tenth* of the hassle.)

Once the younger rider has been here long enough to get a little nest egg and a little piece of small-pond glory, it's really too late for them to go World Championship racing. They don't know the paddock cultures, the languages, the tracks. They're 15 years behind their competition, and it's rare for anyone to make that transition successfully. Heck, Edwards has admitted that he stayed in Superbikes way too long to make the transition to GP. Like people were telling him when he *was* young enough to go GP racing.

You've got to do it young or not at all. And when someone, young or old, has a choice between a factory ride in AMA, versus going World Championship racing on a shoestring and an uncompetitive bike, they have to (a) really, really, REALLY want the World Championship glory and (b) have enough money from other sources to be able to justify turning the AMA money down. That combination is pretty rare in any sport.

Hopper didn't "come up" through AMA the way the AMA factory riders did. When he was 17 or 18 or whatever it was, he had the same choices they did, and he chose the long shot. It's looking now like his sacrifices are starting to pay off. I have to admit I'm not a fan of his, but he's done it right. After Hopper (or Hayden back on a competitive bike and a supportive team), America's best hope right now is the kids coming up through the Red Bull Rookies' Cup, or just maybe Steve Bonsey will show something he hasn't yet.



Okay, last edit, I swear.

The AMA is such a well-paying series because the USA is such a major market for motorcycles. No, we don't sell the most units, but we sell big expensive bikes, which translates to a plurality of dollars/euros/yen/yuan for every manufacturer in the world. So.... you want to see more Americans successful in World Championships? Make sure they get paid less in AMA... quit buying motorcycles!  

[Mr Sunshine]

His GP ride wasn't really a debacle. He had absolutely zero setup time, and trying to get used to the electronics package on a modern GP bike is really tough, even for a seasoned racer.

It sounded to me like he had them disable the auto-blip for downshifts and was shifting it like a supersport bike.

None of the other 211V's sounded like miguel coming into turn 2.

Parking the bike was the smartest thing he could have done. He had a full season in the AMA to think about. No sense crashing out of last place, dicing with Kurtis Roberts and risking injury. I think he did the right thing.


Now somebody is going to bring up Tommy Hayden. Yeah, he finished 10th. Great effort. He's also a lot younger, hungrier, and willing to stick his neck in the vise for a little spotlight and maybe a GP ride in the future.


He also had the luxury of flying to Japan ahead of Laguna to test the ZX-RR, something that Miguel didn't have.

I think the first time Miguel swung a leg over the 211V was Friday. Race on Sunday.


How do you think Yates would have done if Vermeulen or Hopper were injured and Suzuki threw him on the GSVR Friday at 10 am? Mladin, maybe a bit better because he's ridden the GP Suzuki's in offseason testing at Sepang.

And what about Chaz Davis?  He did pretty good too and wasn't even informed about the ride until Friday evening at dinner.

[Scottyfizz]

Josh Haye's should be on the Honda superbike.

[maddjack]

Josh Haye's should be on the Honda superbike.

[Scottyfizz]

 

It's time for Josh. Hell I met Miggy at Raod America in 1990. Isn't he about 55 years ols now?