"Looks like Macho Motorcycles are Out" - HD stock falling

[Rincewind]

HD sales are dropping; the stock value is dropping, and job cuts are being discussed.

http://www.axcessnews.com/index.php/articles/show/id/12288

[Bunbun]

Well that's no good.  I wonder if it really is attributable to the sub-prime fiasco or if, perhaps, the market is saturated?  Hopefully they'll get it together and maybe this is just a bump in the road.  Definitely wanna see more of Buell!

Bun

[desert_rider]

I guess t-shirt sales are slipping.  

[badger]

Well that's no good.  I wonder if it really is attributable to the sub-prime fiasco or if, perhaps, the market is saturated?

Probably a little of both.  Plus the aging out of their primary target market.  Their biggest concern is being viewed as the "Oldsmobile or Buick" of the motorcycle world.

[chornbe]

Well that's no good.  I wonder if it really is attributable to the sub-prime fiasco or if, perhaps, the market is saturated?  Hopefully they'll get it together and maybe this is just a bump in the road.  Definitely wanna see more of Buell!

Bun

It's a bump. It's market saturation. It's shifting riding styles. It's a lot of factors. And it's economy-related. It's all of it.

Harley's not going anywhere.

[Rincewind]

Article by a UK analyst relating HD's sales figures to the real estate market and loans - http://195.224.59.217/news/archives_2000/news_details.asp?id=5404

Sportsters are being pushed at reduced interest rates here in the States, and in the UK they have introduced 0% APR on Sportsters.

[steve.ski]

HD also self funded many loans on their bikes. Defaults are beginning to come down the pike. If you're in the market for a nice used HD, they'll be coming to a dealer near you soon...

[LordSmoke]

Probably a little of both.  Plus the aging out of their primary target market.  Their biggest concern is being viewed as the "Oldsmobile or Buick" of the motorcycle world.

Interesting statement since I am getting to the age that Oldsmobiles and Buicks are looking pretty good. Wonder if I will start wanting an HD soon?

[Aero]

Four Harley plants have shut down for the week due to unsold stock. I guess discounts are available if you are in the market for a new H-D.

http://www.wgal.com/news/14125424/detail.html?rss=lan&psp=news

http://www.visordown.com/motorcyclenews/view/harley_davidson_s_financial_woes_continue/1996.html



Edited to add second linky.

[fritzcoinc]

Well HD is doing a lot better than Ford and GM!
Also they may as well lay off a week, the PA plant is damm near shut down that week each year for deer season anyway! Texas is a big hunting state too, but we don't get a State holiday for it. Their sales projection for 08 is only 20k units or so less than last year. Even with all Harley's marketing BS and the tail spin maintenance program, Harley is a quality product and that will keep them around for a long while.

[Skydakine]

HD sales are dropping; the stock value is dropping, and job cuts are being discussed.

http://www.axcessnews.com/index.php/articles/show/id/12288

This may have something to do with it: Our local HD dealer has a $30,000 price tag on an Electra Glide Ultra. Across the street, the Honda dealer has a Gold Wing equipped with the same type of accessories for $20,000. Ten grand is a lot to pay for potatoes.

[highside]

I think a lot of people are cutting down on unnecessary spending. Even if they haven't lost money in the whole subprime mess, the news is scaring a lot of people into making wiser financial choices. I suspect that the entire garage ornament industry is going to be hurting.

[Skydakine]

That's a good point, but will we ever see a Harley soft tail priced the same as a Honda VTX 1800?

[chornbe]

Well, the VTX1800 ain't all that cheap. And with the Dyna series (rear twin-shock, mid-sized frame, just like the VTX) starting at $11k, I'd say prices are comparable enough that people who might have never considered a Harley before because of price are certainly able to have them on the list when (at least) web shopping.

Personally, the minute you compare walking in to the show room and the service you get over time (if you can believe what people who actually have experience tell you), owning a Harley and dealer parts/service and of course the aftermarket BLOWS away EVERYTHING Japanese bikes have to offer. If you're never going to bolt anything on and do 100% of your own service and order your own parts online, then the Japanese offerings' slight savings might be better.

There's more than just the simple purchase price to consider. I have to tell you, after the way I'm treated at the HD dealer, the availability of parts and options, I'd be seriously hard-pressed to ever go back to a Japanese dealer for my primary bike. But then, now that I've been a 2-bike garage for a couple of years, having something sporty and DIRT CHEAP next to the 'Glide is hard to beat, too.

Both sides of this stupid, silly imaginary fence have things to offer. For me, there is no fence.

[fritzcoinc]

Oh yeah! Harley parts availability is as good as it gets. I would rate Harley parts availability the same as any of the big three auto makers. And the price of straight up service parts is the same as other brands. Now if you want a chrome anything, bend over dude! Service and maintenance is easy once you get accustom to the Harley way of doing things. Special tools are pretty simple to rig up. Tons of used. The service manual would be about 1/4" thick if they took out all the statements like " ...If this operation is not carried out in accordance with these instructions loss of control of the Vehicle could result and possible personnel injure or death may occur". Honda too, I have been buying a lot of parts for my old Honda XR 650L and they have an excellent parts system. Now as for Moto Guzzi, I can not talk about parts and service without becoming deathly ill. If you ride a Guzzi you had better plan ahead. Their parts system is, in a word, silly.
Don't let the cold keep you inside.
Regards
Fritzcoinc

[chornbe]

Now if you want a chrome anything, bend over dude!

I used to hear that a lot, and it was a concern when I started thinking seriously about buying a Harley. But I gotta tell you, the more I learned, the more I realized it's mostly myth and street preachin' to the unwashed.

Example:

When I had my Shadow Sabre, I really wanted a *GOOD* seat for it (I have low-back disc issues and the stock seat is horrible). I decided on a Mustang Wide Touring seat with back rest. I looked around, going price, new $600-$650. I found one used for $450 shipped. I jumped on it.

Meanwhile, the Harley Sundowner "Comfort" touring seat and the Harley Rider Back rest (which fits the entire touring frame lineup since '88(?) and all the standard-style seats from Harley and much of the after market), totaled out at just over $400. New. Ultimately I ended up getting the rider back rest and a *stock* Harley Ultraglide seat for even less money. And the stock seat kicks ass!

Light bars for my Sabre were $350-$450 new from places like Cobra (shit products, by the way), MC Enterprises, etc.

New for the SG from Harley, $300-$350. Right in line.

The passenger floorboards for my street glide, $133. I would have to hack something together for the Sabre, or buy the shit cast pot-metal ones from Cobra for $200.

And that's *just* looking at the Harley parts. If you just pick a chrome or functional bit and look around, there's likely to be tons more stuff from various aftermarket makers and distributors for the Harley, while there might be one or two for anything else. And the prices are competitive and better because there is so much choice.

And the Honda Shadow line (as an example) has been around for >20 years. There should be better support in the after-market, I would think. *shrugs*







(please note: this is not a "I have a Harley so I'm defending it" post - this is just more of the reasoning among the many reasons I bought the Harley when I'd decided on a touring machine.   )

[ruffcut]

That's a good point, but will we ever see a Harley soft tail priced the same as a Honda VTX 1800?

   Will you ever get the work force at HD to take home a check like the workers in Japan take home?
 I`ll admit it`s a nice dream though.

[atadaskew]

That's a good point, but will we ever see a Harley soft tail priced the same as a Honda VTX 1800?

That's not a correct comparison.  Honda does not offer a softail type suspension on the VTX1800.  The suspension it offers mirrors that on the Dyna Glide series, which as it happens is priced in the same range.  Actually the base Harley Dyna is cheaper.  IMO this is a screaming deal, get the real thing, or for more buy a copy....
Same for the Sportster series. The 1200 series cost less than the Honda VTX1300.  People just assume Harley prices start at $17K.

[Skydakine]

Well, the VTX1800 ain't all that cheap. And with the Dyna series (rear twin-shock, mid-sized frame, just like the VTX) starting at $11k, I'd say prices are comparable enough that people who might have never considered a Harley before because of price are certainly able to have them on the list when (at least) web shopping.

Personally, the minute you compare walking in to the show room and the service you get over time (if you can believe what people who actually have experience tell you), owning a Harley and dealer parts/service and of course the aftermarket BLOWS away EVERYTHING Japanese bikes have to offer. If you're never going to bolt anything on and do 100% of your own service and order your own parts online, then the Japanese offerings' slight savings might be better.

There's more than just the simple purchase price to consider. I have to tell you, after the way I'm treated at the HD dealer, the availability of parts and options, I'd be seriously hard-pressed to ever go back to a Japanese dealer for my primary bike. But then, now that I've been a 2-bike garage for a couple of years, having something sporty and DIRT CHEAP next to the 'Glide is hard to beat, too.

Both sides of this stupid, silly imaginary fence have things to offer. For me, there is no fence.

The Harley dealers where I live in Honolulu, HI, won't negotiate down from MSRP. It's usually up from there as a base. For example, I was willing to pay the dealer prep charge, delivery charge, state sales and vehicle registration taxes on a 2006 Street Bob, but the lowest the dealer would go was $16,600.00. When I balked and said I'd come back later to see if he'd reconsider my $15,500.00 Out The Door offer, he said another customer came into the shop after me and paid $20,000.00 for the same bike.

Harley's are great bikes and I still want one. However when I walked across the street to the Honda dealer, the sales manager was willing to cut $2,000.00 of the MSRP and was willing to throw in extra accessories to get me to buy his VTX1800 cruiser. I realize it's all supply and demand. I'm just the kind of guy who likes to negotiate on anything new. My Triumph dealer cut $1,100.00 off the MSRP of my new 2006 Speed Triple. It's no Harley, but I'm happy I have my "second" bike first. I'll just have to bite the bullet one day when I have "extra" cash available for the big Harley purchase.

[atadaskew]

The Harley dealers where I live in Honolulu, HI, won't negotiate down from MSRP. It's usually up from there as a base.

Unfortunately (for bike buying reasons) that's because you live in Hawaii where you can't just easily shop multiple dealers.  On the main land Harley dealers are dealing.  At my local, Bartels (a notorious gouger in the past) the sales doods told me that they would beat any offer from other dealerships.  They know that business has cooled off and I can shop multiple dealerships.  Stuck on an island, not so much...