Getting into it...

[livetoride]

So I've fallin' in love with trail and dirt riding, so much so that the trusty Bandit is for sale and I'm looking around at different types of dirt bike.

I'm looking at the TTR230 or TTR250 Yami's or the CRF250R or 250X Honda's.. Yes I definitely want a 4 stroke, and no I'm not looking for a huge 500 or 650 multi purpose bike.

Anyone have any other suggestions for bikes?
-Peter  

[hig4s]

You will probably find the TTRs to be a little tame,, easy trail only bikes.. I would suggest look at the Yamaha WR250F, Honda CRF250X, KTM 250 XCF-w, or Husqvarna TE250 enduro. All these are serious dirt bikes with tons of suspension just like the motocross racers. They actually have the same engines as the motocross racers but tuned for milder riding, with wider ratio transmissions, heavier flywheels, normal throttles instead of quick twist, and electric start.. And while there are not many Husky dealers around which can be a pain, the Husqvarna's come fully street legal. You don't really want to ride them on the road very far, but it is legal so they are great for dual sporting were it is mostly off road.

[livetoride]

Interesting... I'd not considered the Husky's but I suppose I'll poke around a bit and see... How well do they hold there value used (as thats the type I'm looking for..)

-Peter

[mtrider16]

Have you ruled out the XR250R or the XR400R?  These would be simple bikes to maintian.  There are probably other air cooled singles in the other manufacturers lines as well.  

David

[hig4s]

Interesting... I'd not considered the Husky's but I suppose I'll poke around a bit and see... How well do they hold there value used (as thats the type I'm looking for..)

-Peter

That is the big problem, with limited dealers, they don't hold their value at all.
And also with limited dealers unless one is near you, you need to be comfortable doing your own repairs. I had a 99 Husky CR125, great bike, took no more maintenance and had no more problems than any KTM or Japanese bike I've ever had, but when I sold it it got about $300 less than my son's 96 YZ125.  

If you look around you can find used in good condition, or even new last year's model Huskys for pretty cheap prices..

[marc11]

I went with a KLX250s for the simple fact that it is basically an older KX250 with plates.  It is nice to be able to ride the bike to and from the trails.  This bike is DIRT BIASED, it has the same frame and suspension as the previous generation KX250, with a softened motor.

The bike comes stock with pretty aggressive knobbies!!!  No dual sport tires here.

It is a bit heavier than an all out dirt bike at 262 pounds,but lighter than many dual sports out there.

I also considered the XR650...too big.  The DRZ, nice power, a bit heavier and less in the suspension package and some dirt only bikes.  For me it came down to wanting a full on dirt bike I could ride on the street.

The best part came yesterday, I pulled out of the woods, covered in mud and rode down the street, a town cop drove by the other way, never gave me a second look!

[speedjunkie]

I had purchased a KLR650 for my DS riding needs, but found it too heavy, too little suspension, and too little power for serious trail/woods riding.  At least for me.  So, I picked up a KTM LC4 640E, which is a DS model.  This bike is everything that the KLR isn't, and then some!  I also ride a WR250F on those same trails.  The WR will blow the LC4 away, but then again, it's lighter and even more dirt oriented.  It just depends if you want to haul the bike to the trails or ride it.  

If riding to the trails, I'd go for a KLX250 or a LC4, or a plated KTM EXC 400-450 depending on your skill level.  The Husky TE series doesn't hold it's value well, so you might pick up a used one for cheap for starters.  

If hauling, a KDX200/220 or a WR250F is about as good as it gets IMHO.  Just remember with a 2 smoke, it needs to be rung out, or the plug will foul in short order.  The Honda XR series is good too, but aren't water cooled.  Good luck and have fun!!



Mike

[Johnny Monsoon]

I'll throw in another vote for the KLX250S.  That bike flat rawks!  Every bit a dirtbike offroad (great suspension, enough power, etc) but still  most certainly roadworthy.  I really want one; and if I were giving up a streetbike, that's what I'd get for sure.  I have two TT-R125s but it does get tiresome loading and unloading them all the time; it'd be nice to just ride to the trail.  Oh, and the KLX is a better dirtbike than the TT-R125s are.

[hig4s]

Just remember with a 2 smoke, it needs to be rung out, or the plug will foul in short order.  The Honda XR series is good too, but aren't water cooled.  Good luck and have fun!!

Mike

If a 2-stroke is jetted properly, which rarely happens from the factory, they will not foul plugs hardly ever even riding slow. I re-jetted my 99 Husky, my son's 01 YZ85 and YZ125 a couple months after getting each.. Once jetted any one of them could be slow trail ridden all day without fouling.. Matter of fact my Husky after being rejetted NEVER fouled another plug.. I use to change it twice a year anyway.

I went with a KLX250s for the simple fact that it is basically an older KX250 with plates.  It is nice to be able to ride the bike to and from the trails.  This bike is DIRT BIASED, it has the same frame and suspension as the previous generation KX250, with a softened motor.
The bike comes stock with pretty aggressive knobbies!!!  No dual sport tires here.
It is a bit heavier than an all out dirt bike at 262 pounds,but lighter than many dual sports out there.

OK I forgot about the new KLX250,, very good dual sport leaning more toward serious dirt than most dual sports. . But it is not based on the KX250,, the KX was a 2-stroke and the KLX is a 4-stroke. It is not even based on the KX250F as they are completely different engines and frames. And while 11 inches of suspension is great, and they do have the 16 way adjustments of the motocross bikes it is not quite the same suspension.. Virtually all serious dirt bikes since the 80s, when KTM put the first WP USD forks on a dirt bike, have had 12 inches or more travel. . And those tires are called trials tires, they were the standard for dual-sports back in the 70's and 80's before most manufacturers started putting on tires that were 70% to 80% designed for street.  

If you are looking for a bike that can be used daily on the street but is still almost a serious dirt bike,, the KLX is about the best you can get. It would even be good enough to do a few enduro races on it right out of the box..

[marc11]

I think you need to check your facts on the KLX250s more.

The frame and suspension is directly off a previous generation KX (I am not sure which, but more than one dealer and one write up has mentioned this).  The engine is based of the KLX300, many parts off the KLX300 bolt right on, even the 330 big bore kit.  The tires are, while DOT approved, are knobbies, not street tires with an aggressive tread, while they may be trial tires, they are the closest to knobbies I have seen on any dual sport out there.  The KLX suspension is fully adjustable front and rear with USD forks.

[photomd]

IMHO, think about how you want to use it: trial, MX track, ride on street.

Many of the bikes mentioned above will work on trails. Four strokes are great 'cause you can put-put around, however a properly set up 2 stroke will too. Once I got the jetting sorted on my CR, I put around all day. Honda's XR's are great bikes and some can take a Baja kit if you want to make them street legal.

If you want to try a track, get a CR, WR, whatever, but get a dedicated off road bike. XR's are little stressed by big jumps and dual sports will take lots of suspension fiddling to get even close. Most don't have enough adjustment to make it worth while.

If you get a dual sport, IMHO, keep in mind they are a compromise...like a sleeper sofa. It'll do both, but won't be especially good at either one. The suspension is very different off road as compared to on road as well as other things: frames, brakes, seats, weight....

Another consideration is cost. Two strokes are on the way out, so they are cheap. 125's and 250 can be had for $1000-$2000 dollars. Don't let the little bikes make you think they're slow. The only place my 250 starts to pull away is WOT at the top end. 125's corner and jump just as well as a 250.

Gettin' out there is the most important thing. Have fun. The dirt is a fun place to slide around.  

[hig4s]

I think you need to check your facts on the KLX250s more.

The frame and suspension is directly off a previous generation KX (I am not sure which, but more than one dealer and one write up has mentioned this).  The engine is based of the KLX300, many parts off the KLX300 bolt right on, even the 330 big bore kit.  The tires are, while DOT approved, are knobbies, not street tires with an aggressive tread, while they may be trial tires, they are the closest to knobbies I have seen on any dual sport out there.  The KLX suspension is fully adjustable front and rear with USD forks.

the frame and suspension are based on previous years dirt machines at Kaw, but not taken directly from.. couldn't be as engine monunting configuration from the 2-stroke MX engines, the 4-stroke MX engines and the KLX300 are completely different.  As far as the forks go, 43mm USD Kayabas are as common as snot,, You might as well say this year's YZ450 has the forks taken straight off last years KX. Just because they have the same outside does not mean they are the same.

And the frame, all the MX bikes for the last 3 incarnations have had a removeable sub-frame where the seat and rear fender mount.. the KLX250 does not.. here are the part #s for the KLX250 frame 32160-0149-458  swingarm 33001-1564-458 Shock 45014-5020 and forks 44070-1683/4-js  here is the Kaw parts link www.kawasaki.com/DefaultFrame.aspx?strContentUrl=/SITE/VIVEHICLEINFORMATION/VICHOOSEVEHICLE.ASP

If you can find any KX or KX-F that uses any of those part #s I'd like to know.

[Johnny Monsoon]

I'm not an expert on the KLX line, but I too was under the impression that it was identical to the 4 STROKE offroad-only model except for street-legal goodies and altered gearing.  It is not the same as the 2 stroke models, but I'm pretty certain it has an offroad only 4 stroke sibling.

[bluesurf]

Just remember with a 2 smoke, it needs to be rung out, or the plug will foul in short order.

Any carb'd bike that fouls easily should have its bowls cleaned and jetting examined.  A reasonably configured 2-smoker should be able to handle 4+K feet of altitude change, albeit possibly with some coughing at higher altitudes.  My 300exc does so, dragging and raging, and it's not yet quite in perfect tune.

[stk0308]

Interesting... I'd not considered the Husky's but I suppose I'll poke around a bit and see... How well do they hold there value used (as thats the type I'm looking for..)

-Peter

I hate to break it to you but if you’re looking at dirtbikes there is no such thing as holding value.  Unless they are very basic, mainly kids, bikes.  It's my observation that most adult sized dirtbikes take a huge depreciation hit on first purchase, and just keep slowly sliding down.  Mainly because their intended use.  ABUSE!  I may be oversimplifying, but if you look at motorcycles as investments you’re not going to be happy.

Now, having said that.  The first selections you gave are pretty different.  The TTR line is a trialbike/playbike line.  Air-cooled, reliable, relatively low maintenance, and safe.  The CRF250s are modern liquid cooled 4 strokes that will require a lot more care and attention, especially to the valves.  If you’re stuck on "Honda reliability" I would not suggest venturing into CRF250R or X territory.  The equivalent to the TTR is the old XR250 or XR400 and the new CRF230F.  The 230 is a development of the old XR motor, so it's a lot less high strung than the CRF250(confused yet?).  The problem with the old XR air-cooled line is no electric start.  The TTRs now all come electric start.  As does the CRF230.  Which, after dropping the bike for the 20th time in the woods and trying to restart it, will be a life saver.  As the owner of a kick only bike, I can tell you.  It can be extra frustrating to have to kick the bike to life EVERY time it stalls, falls, or just after you mean to stop.

The list hig4s gave are all great modern 4 stroke trail bikes.  But they all will need more attention than your Bandit ever did.  Just go in forewarned.  They're great bikes, modern, powerful, and well suspended.  And a recent 250 4stroke isn't really underpowered.  Unless you run a lot of sand, hills, or are over 230 lbs.  Of them the Yamaha has proven to be the most reliable.  They hit a really good design with their 5 valve motor.  The KTM is pretty new, but proving to be doing well.  The Honda went through a bad run of valves that the faithful swear either didn't happen, or was very isolated.  The Husky is an anomaly.  Very good trail bike, but the company makes people nervous.  They are owned by Cagiva.  A company notorious for going into bankruptcy off and on.  They got a huge injection of cash recent, and the past couple years have been making some really pretty good motorcycles.

For a bargain, and easy to find, you might consider a KDX200 or 220.  Yeah, I know, it's a 2 stroke, but hear me out.  It's one of the most reliable, easy going trailbikes in the past 10-15 years.  They're cheap, abundant, and tough!

[hig4s]

I'm not an expert on the KLX line, but I too was under the impression that it was identical to the 4 STROKE offroad-only model except for street-legal goodies and altered gearing.  It is not the same as the 2 stroke models, but I'm pretty certain it has an offroad only 4 stroke sibling.

. the KX250F was a co-produced bike designed by Suzuki, it is the same as an RM-Z250, The new KLX250 was designed by Kawasaki, just get a close up picture of them side by side.

[Phat Twin]

I hate to break it to you but if you’re looking at dirtbikes there is no such thing as holding value.  Unless they are very basic, mainly kids, bikes.  It's my observation that most adult sized dirtbikes take a huge depreciation hit on first purchase, and just keep slowly sliding down.  Mainly because their intended use.  ABUSE!  I may be oversimplifying, but if you look at motorcycles as investments you’re not going to be happy.

Now, having said that.  The first selections you gave are pretty different.  The TTR line is a trialbike/playbike line.  Air-cooled, reliable, relatively low maintenance, and safe.  The CRF250s are modern liquid cooled 4 strokes that will require a lot more care and attention, especially to the valves.  If you’re stuck on "Honda reliability" I would not suggest venturing into CRF250R or X territory.  The equivalent to the TTR is the old XR250 or XR400 and the new CRF230F.  The 230 is a development of the old XR motor, so it's a lot less high strung than the CRF250(confused yet?).  The problem with the old XR air-cooled line is no electric start.  The TTRs now all come electric start.  As does the CRF230.  Which, after dropping the bike for the 20th time in the woods and trying to restart it, will be a life saver.  As the owner of a kick only bike, I can tell you.  It can be extra frustrating to have to kick the bike to life EVERY time it stalls, falls, or just after you mean to stop.

The list hig4s gave are all great modern 4 stroke trail bikes.  But they all will need more attention than your Bandit ever did.  Just go in forewarned.  They're great bikes, modern, powerful, and well suspended.  And a recent 250 4stroke isn't really underpowered.  Unless you run a lot of sand, hills, or are over 230 lbs.  Of them the Yamaha has proven to be the most reliable.  They hit a really good design with their 5 valve motor.  The KTM is pretty new, but proving to be doing well.  The Honda went through a bad run of valves that the faithful swear either didn't happen, or was very isolated.  The Husky is an anomaly.  Very good trail bike, but the company makes people nervous.  They are owned by Cagiva.  A company notorious for going into bankruptcy off and on.  They got a huge injection of cash recent, and the past couple years have been making some really pretty good motorcycles.

For a bargain, and easy to find, you might consider a KDX200 or 220.  Yeah, I know, it's a 2 stroke, but hear me out.  It's one of the most reliable, easy going trailbikes in the past 10-15 years.  They're cheap, abundant, and tough!

stk0308 hit it dead on guys.  I've looked into a few dirtbikes in the past, and the most reliable I've had so far was an older generation XR250R.  Thing was bullet proof, REALLY!!!  I beat the snot out of that thing and besides bearing, tires, brakes and oil, it was solid.  

I got the fever for more power after riding my buddies WR250F a bunch, wicked fun bike to ride.  Suspension is dead on for most people, and if you tweak the motors a bit with timing chain changes, better air filters/jetting and grey wire mods, the bike will outperform your riding abilities regularly.  The magic button/ e-start is invaluable for any rider, wish I had it on my 2000 WR400F.  Being the size of Saquatch, kicking it over has never been an issue .  Be warned that the 5 valves are great motors... but need to be checked regularly, especially with the titanium valves.

I looked at the CRF250X/450X, really nice bikes, but I did hear about the valve/motor issues.  Newer bikes also had really soft clutches.  Great machine, I've always liked Honda quality.  Give em' a couple more years, and they'll iron out all the faults with the CRF-X's.   I just bought my son a CRF100, nice little machine.

KTM's are really nice bikes also, see alot of em' in Turkey runs all over New England.  Suspension is the best out there from the factory, motors are really good, too.  Closest to street legal you can find besides the Husky.  My friend is a Husky dealer, rode the 250, and I can honestly say its a really nice bike.  Cult bike IMHO.

My regular riding buddy has the 2004 KDX200 2 stroke.  Excellent bike for the money.  Great suspension, a stones throw away from being street legal depending on your state of residence, and just as reliable as my old XR was.  If you can find one used for a good price, snatch it up.  Even if you are planning on a bigger, better 4 stroke.  You won't be disappointed.

My suggestions are as follows.

1. WR250F
2. KTM250 EXC
3. CRF250X
4. KDX200

Best of luck in the woods.  Fight for your right to ride offroad by getting involved, we are loosing more and more riding areas every day.  If we loose our rights to ride, we all suffer.

[CBRXXBLACKBIRD]

I have to agree trail and dirt riding is a blast I can't wait to look for another bike I sold my ATK 7 months ago and still regret it.

[White Lightning]

I just bought a 2000 yamaha wr400f a week ago friday.  Other than having to kick start it is a great bike, and I got it relatively cheap.  It needs the grey wire mod and air filter mod done on it, bone stock it is more than enough bike for me, I wiegh about 235.

[hig4s]

I just bought a 2000 yamaha wr400f a week ago friday.  Other than having to kick start it is a great bike, and I got it relatively cheap.  It needs the grey wire mod and air filter mod done on it, bone stock it is more than enough bike for me, I wiegh about 235.

did you know that WRs also have a 3/4 stop in the throttle so you can never get the engine WOT,, if you decide to mod it, , I would mod that or switch to the MX throttle first as an intermediate step.  

[White Lightning]

did you know that WRs also have a 3/4 stop in the throttle so you can never get the engine WOT,, if you decide to mod it, , I would mod that or switch to the MX throttle first as an intermediate step.  

Will have to keep that in mind.  I'm not going to mod it until I feel I have reached a little closer to the bike's potential.  At the moment is is far more than I need.  Bouncing off trees starts to hurt in your mid thirties

[johne]

I have a TTR250 and most of the posts' hit it right on the head. The TTR is VERY tame and the CR line would be a handful to someone new to dirtbikes or just getting back into it after a long absence. I just wanted something for the trails cause at 47 yrs young I have no need for double jumps and tabletops. For the 3 years I've had this bike it's been nothing short of durable, fun and reliable. Plenty fast (for me anyway) and no need to kick start it if I fall off (which I've done several times). Hell, it doesn't even have a kick starter !!
        Sometimes while I'm riding it I think it would be nice to have the WR450 but then I come back to reality and realize I'm not Ricky Carmichael. I got the wife a TTR125 and my son a PW80 at the same time so we all have fun in the trails. Good luck with your choice.

[black hills]

  Just remember with a 2 smoke, it needs to be rung out, or the plug will foul in short order.  The Honda XR series is good too, but aren't water cooled.  Good luck and have fun!!



Mike

You obviously haven't ridden a modern 2 stroke? My KTM300exc has great lowend, is harder to kill than a 4 stroke, never has fouled a plug (I jetted it properly) and most importantly starts right up after a fall, unlike those four strokes!!  Although for a beginner I think the power delivery on a 250 fourstoke will be easier to handle. I would go with the KTM, WR250F or CRF250. Get the suspension properly set up, or better yet revalved and you are set.

[Johnny Monsoon]

You obviously haven't ridden a modern 2 stroke? My KTM300exc has great lowend, is harder to kill than a 4 stroke, never has fouled a plug (I jetted it properly) and most importantly starts right up after a fall, unlike those four strokes!!  

I dunno, I drop my TT-R125 ALL the time!  It always starts right up, thankfully!

Johne, I've been very surprised to see how much more powerful the TTR-125 has gotten as it breaks in!  Holy cow!  Not a powerhouse by any means, but PLENTY of power to ride the bike to its limits (which I keep pushing).  Fun stuff!

[black hills]

I dunno, I drop my TT-R125 ALL the time!  It always starts right up, thankfully!

You are lucky, some of the guys I ride with have a terrible time starting thier CRF450's and YZ450's after a crash?? Although with emmisions problems I will most likely be forced to go to a 4 stroke before long too.

[bluesurf]

You obviously haven't ridden a modern 2 stroke? My KTM300exc has great lowend, is harder to kill than a 4 stroke, never has fouled a plug (I jetted it properly) and most importantly starts right up after a fall, unlike those four strokes!!  Although for a beginner I think the power delivery on a 250 fourstoke will be easier to handle. I would go with the KTM, WR250F or CRF250. Get the suspension properly set up, or better yet revalved and you are set.

+1......I absolutely love my 300exc, aka: the hero bike.  There's nothing that I can do to kill that bike, starts up with one kick 90% of the time when warm, takes every bump like it doesn't exist, etc.  They are simply amazing bikes, ones that make heroes out of mere mortal riders.

[black hills]

  They are simply amazing bikes, ones that make heroes out of mere mortal riders.

Exactly why I love mine. I have never ridden a better bike in the woods. I can't imagine how bad I would suck with a lesser machine

[livetoride]

Wow,
Thanks all for the insights and tips.. I've expanded my search to the WR250 (yamaha) and the XR series honda's )as well as looking for used TTR's.. I'm worried about the bike feeling "tame".. I've got a bad hip and until I get that replaced it's easy to moderate trails for me.

Anyway,
All is on hold until I find a buyer for the Bandit..

-Peter

[f9mountainman]

Finance a new 2007 KTM 450EXC. Street legal in all 50 states and it supposed to be right up there with the best of the non street legal bikes. I don't have one myself, but from what I have read, they are great bikes. They also have electric start.

[bluesurf]

Finance a new 2007 KTM 450EXC. Street legal in all 50 states and it supposed to be right up there with the best of the non street legal bikes. I don't have one myself, but from what I have read, they are great bikes. They also have electric start.

That's one more cool thing about KTM two-strokes; they don't *need* electric start

My brother has a 450exc.  Great bike, but not for tight woods trails.  Open things up a bit more and that bike is right at home.  The underseat fuse connecting the starter died on one trip and we spent 15-20 minutes trying to get that beast kicked over....same with another friends 525 on a different ride.  http://ktmtalk.com is a great resource for those interested.

btw - ktm used to put "cyc" on the mso instead of "for off-road use only" so were easily plateable in a lot of states....street-legal 2-stroke dirt bikes are completely out-of-hand....near-perfect "single backpack of food from the grocery store" machines.

[f9mountainman]

The EXC is not a 2 stroke, I am sure you know that, but that is what the 2nd part of your seems like you are saying. There are far more things than just riding to the grocery store, that a street legal dirt bike is good for.

The WR's are also great bikes. I have a WR 400, and it is a great bike. Easy to kick start and a blast to ride. Good luck with your search for a new toy.

[hig4s]

The EXC is not a 2 stroke, and there are far more things than just riding to the grocery store, that a street legal dirt bike is good for.

Which EXC are you talking about, Older 200, 250, and 300 EXCs  are 2-strokes The new 250, 450, and 525 EXCs are 4-strokes.

[f9mountainman]

The 450 in which I posted about.

[bluesurf]

The EXC is not a 2 stroke, I am sure you know that, but that is what the 2nd part of your seems like you are saying. There are far more things than just riding to the grocery store, that a street legal dirt bike is good for.

I'm uncertain how you got that impression, since I didn't mention the 450exc in direct context to any 2-stroke data.  The new paragraph (context change) was specifically to differentiate the fact that the 450exc/525 machines are so much more difficult to kick over (obvious: it's why they *have* the extra weight of electric start, and part of the reason that they're not quite as sweet tight trails bikes as the 300exc, etc.)  It appears that you may have become confused because I didn't specifically state "ok, now we're talking about 4-strokes."

And yes, there are obviously more things than just riding to the grocery store that a street legal dirt bike is good for, but imo the quick grocery store run on a street-legal 2-stroke is among the best for a quick hoolie run.    In fact, I think that I'm out of coffee beans....

[f9mountainman]

Sorry Bluesurf. After re-reading my post, I came off as a total A-hole. That was not my intetion at all. I was simply trying to state the fact that the 450 was a 4 stroke so there was no confusion for the guy who started the thread incase he was thinking of looking at one.

[bluesurf]

Sorry Bluesurf. After re-reading my post, I came off as a total A-hole. That was not my intetion at all. I was simply trying to state the fact that the 450 was a 4 stroke so there was no confusion for the guy who started the thread incase he was thinking of looking at one.

No worries, Colowyo, and thanks for the post.  I was just kinda wondering how we got to point C so quickly!  

btw - the coffee bean run was great fun, hehe.