Leather vs textile

[gtmg]

Doing a hard evaluation of what I should be wearing to be safe. I am taking a hard look at a Roadcrafter and the Olympia Phantom, but in the back of mind I know leather is safer. Some of the concerns are holes in the textiles during the accident or protective pad movement. Am I worried about nothing? Is anybody wearing leather .... not talking about 1 piece suits now but a good jacket and pants for touring. I am thinking of the more traditional look like the First Gear Scout IV and the matching touring pants.... could be any vendor like Vanson. If you wear leather what do you wear in the summer? I live in the south where it is very humid. I assume that everyone with leather carrys a rainsuit with them?? thanks for the input?

[servicerifle]

I switched to leather in February, I think.  I can wear the perf jacket down to the 30's with a Gerbing liner.  It is a little too warm in the dead of summer, though.  I'd say you can get a good 9 months out of a 2 piece leather set if you live in the south.  One of the benefits of leather is how comfortable it is once it's broken in. Far more comfy than any textile I've ever felt.  

I have carried a rain jacket with me, and pants, but with fairings you rarely need the pants...just the jacket.  Of course, I've been caught where I didn't want to stop to put the rain jacket on, but it was raining so hard that my leather jacket got SOAKED.  Luckily good leather can take that with aplomb.  It will dry out in about a day, but you can ride with it wet, it's no big deal.

Basically, with exception of the very hottest and very coldest days, I think leather is the best for street motorcycling, incuding touring.  

[Johnny Monsoon]

I very recently went leather, however still retain my textile gear.  I am not convinced that leather is any safer than textile until you start doing a lot of sliding (and folks generally leave the road quickly after a getoff).

I have mesh, more traditional 'ballistic' kevlar, and leather.  I think I'm getting away from the mesh entirely.  While it does a great job of keeping you cool, and certainly will help if you and your bike part ways, it is too difficult to expect it to avoid moving/rolling on your person; the material is just very flexible and would have to be very fitted to avoid this situation.  I very recently lived through just that event.  The jacket rolled at the forearm and the mesh took all the abrasion while the padding that was supposed to protect me rolled nicely out of harm's way.

I still have my JR Ballistic 2.0 jacket and pants.  For commuting, this is what I'll be wearing; especially in foul weather.  A good, solid, high-thread-count ballistic is going to be very good and can be constructed lighter than leather to allow for the garment to be made in such a way that it can fail to roll on your person without being too tight.  That's a product of how you lay the fabric; an option you can't exercise with leather.  My Ballistic gear is getting a bit long in the tooth, and I've seen some nicer offerings that look like they'd do a better job yet; I wouldn't hesitate to get one with leather patchwork over the abrasion points which will give you the best of both worlds.  Textiles are far easier to care for, have a longer natural life, and are more versatile than leather.

So, why did *I* go leather?  In the past, it seems like you either got great armor in textile but worried for its abrasion resistance, or you got great abrasion resistance buying leather but they'd skimp on the armor and cost at least a hundred bucks more.  For street riding, I believe armor is where it is at; you have a much greater likelihood of encountering another solid object on the road, and abrasion resistance becomes a secondary consideration.  When I went shopping for a replacement for my ruined mesh jacket, I looked at textiles.  I also looked at the leathers.  I finally started seeing offerings of leather jackets, of quality leather in appropriate weights that actually had very good armor and were equal to (and in some cases less than) what the well made textiles were costing.  When I tried at least two jackets on, I found they used someone who must have been nearly identical in dimension to me; so I essentially got a custom fit jacket right off the rack.  

The down side is that you must maintain leather.  It has a finite life; it is a natural product that has been harvested and who's protective qualities will degrade over time (just like safety glasses).  Exposure to extreme environments will accelerate the degradation of the garments, and so will rain and improper storage.  However, if you're willing to understand these things, and plan to replace them (most of us do this eventually anyway simply because we want something new) then you're going to be just fine with a leather purchase.  

Leather is hotter, and heavier but in most cases I think that if you're able to find a good jacket that fits well, it will likely provide better protection when it comes to staying put on your body.  Just make sure the armor is rated well, and don't get too caught up on brand names.  Cows don't care where their hides go.  Try jackets on and do a lot of tugging at them to ensure they're fitted well.  We all know the mantra for fitting helmets, yet few think much about how a jacket fits; most only care how it looks.

[traveler]

I own both types (Aerostich Roadcrafter 2-pc, Firstgear textile and mesh jackets and pants, Firstgear 1-pc leather suit, with zipper vents front and rear. Firstgear textile gear has upgraded armor, except for flimsy backpad.

Most of the time, at least for multiple day rides, I use and feel safe in the 'stich (with hip pads). I purposefully bought the suit snug fitting, so armor shift isn't a problem (though layering is).

Hot weather forces me to use the mesh around town and sometimes on day rides.

My leather rarely gets used, except for day rides during spring or fall, as it is too hot in summer (insufficient venting) and, being a 1-pc, a bit problematic for pit stops, if you know what I mean. It is very snug fitting and much like a true racing suit. I now wish I had purchased a 2-pc suit with full circumference zipper, as I would probably use it more frequently.

The recent addition of a Joe Rocket (Forcefield) back protector, which I can use in combination with any of my gear, gives me a bit more protection.

I am a satified user of all the above gear, though the mesh jacket could be a bit tighter fitting (arms), to minimize armor shifting. Also I am ATGATT (without exception, though that wasn't always the case, I started riding in 1970) so am a proponent of multiple types of gear to fit the occasion or weather.

As for trusting the gear, I feel most confident in the leather and the 'stich, much less so in the textile mesh stuff. But some protection is always better than none. If wearing textile, I recommend also wearing jeans and long sleeve shirt under them, for a bit more protection, without too much more discomfort.

Works for me, so far.

[ST-DocLizard1]

Textiles for me. No more raingear. Period!

Nuf said.

Doc

[jeremy556]

Just make sure the armor is rated well, and don't get too caught up on brand names.  Cows don't care where their hides go.

There are vast differences between brands of leather gear. Much of the difference is not in the leather itself, but the design, stitching, and other factors.

[RexRider]

Good quality leather gear for pretty much everything, other than colder and/or wet (a goodly part of the year, hear in Seattle...   ) riding.  When it's dark and rainy, those uber-bright textile colors (not often found in leather) can seriously help your visibility (just bought a neon lime-yellow Olympia Phantom suit for my winter commuting) to the cagers.  

[Johnny Monsoon]

There are vast differences between brands of leather gear. Much of the difference is not in the leather itself, but the design, stitching, and other factors.

Just yesterday I was down in the Old Market.  We stopped into a moto-gear place and I was looking around at some jackets with Salie.  There were plenty of jackets from various manufacturers, but one jacket that was clearly of POOR quality leather, extremely dry, lousy stitching, and would fare far WORSE than a mesh jacket was one of the most expensive ones:  Alpinestars.  Not only were other jackets of far superior design, leather quality and weight, but they were also sporting better armor and were less expensive.  Proved once again that you look at each garment individually, don't just buy a name.

[jeremy556]

Just yesterday I was down in the Old Market.  We stopped into a moto-gear place and I was looking around at some jackets with Salie.  There were plenty of jackets from various manufacturers, but one jacket that was clearly of POOR quality leather, extremely dry, lousy stitching, and would fare far WORSE than a mesh jacket was one of the most expensive ones:  Alpinestars.  Not only were other jackets of far superior design, leather quality and weight, but they were also sporting better armor and were less expensive.  Proved once again that you look at each garment individually, don't just buy a name.

OK, if you are just talking about the stuff you might find in a store, I'll agree. Most of the leathers available from the popular manufacturers are good for maybe 1-2 crashes tops. If you want the good stuff you have to order it, and it is generally 2+ times the cost, but will survive crash after crash with minimal repairs.

[Marin Phil]

First, yes, leather is natural-but dead natural.  So, you must "treat" it at least every couple of months-to maintain softness and water-resistance.  No leather is really waterproof-even the new BMW stuff-for full h2o proof you gotta use the gore-tex liner.  Why do Superbike and MotoGP wear leathers.  Leather will slow you down really fast-getting back into the race as opposed to high melting point textile-which will slide much farther.  Those boys want to remount and get back into the race.  There are a few textile one-piece suits that are track rated.  If you are going 2-piece-leather or textile-again high melting point stuff-there should be a way to connect the top and bottom.  You don't want the jacket, or pants for that matter, to ride up/down while you are going for the wild ride.
I am a bit of a jacket hoe, with many textile, textile/gortex membrane-quality stuff.  I also use leather jackets.  On the long trips its textile jacket and pants-both with goretex and armor.  I don't stop for the rain or cold. + and - for both.  N yes, i sometimes ride in jeans-steel J Rocket ones.   Helmet, gloves and rider boots are nonnegotiable.  JMHO...

[ryanr256]

Doing a hard evaluation of what I should be wearing to be safe. I am taking a hard look at a Roadcrafter and the Olympia Phantom, but in the back of mind I know leather is safer. Some of the concerns are holes in the textiles during the accident or protective pad movement. Am I worried about nothing? Is anybody wearing leather .... not talking about 1 piece suits now but a good jacket and pants for touring. I am thinking of the more traditional look like the First Gear Scout IV and the matching touring pants.... could be any vendor like Vanson. If you wear leather what do you wear in the summer? I live in the south where it is very humid. I assume that everyone with leather carrys a rainsuit with them?? thanks for the input?

My gear consists of a Vanson Lightning jacket, Vanson Traveler pants, Vanson Rocket gloves, Chippewa Rally boots.

All leather.

Yes, I'm a Vanson whore.

The jacket and pants are perfed and I do actually own a mesh jacket, but 99% of the time I'm in leather. It took a while for the jacket and pants to break in and being a motorcycle cut the jacket is a bit uncomfortable off the bike. But on the bike I've got no issues. Both the jacket and pants have an adjustable waist which gives room for growth or can accomodate weight loss.

I carry a rain suit.

I'm not an ultra high mileage tourer, but even if I were I'd be in leather. I don't find it too uncomfortable in the hot and humid days of summer here.

-Bob

[Johnny Monsoon]

...but will survive crash after crash with minimal repairs.

No, it won't.  That's a myth about leather.  Once you split the top grain open, you essentially ruin it.  You can replace a panel if you have room to avoid re-stitching in the previously stitched areas and also have enough room to re-roll those stitching areas.  Otherwise you'll have a very unreliable garment.

There's no difference between the leathers a company uses to ship off and the leather quality they use for custom stuff; it all rolls off the same drums.  

Been in leather working for the last quarter of a century; I've heard a lot of the snake oil folks like to toss around concerning leather.

Marin Phil is exactly right with the 'dead natural' comment, and likewise with the necessity of treatments (and properly storing, etc.) of those products.  They are not as convenient as textiles, but it is true they do offer some benefits textiles don't.  You must decide how much work you are willing to put into your gear.  For some, leather may be entirely inappropriate while for others it is the only suitable option.

[jeremy556]

No, it won't.  That's a myth about leather.  Once you split the top grain open, you essentially ruin it.  You can replace a panel if you have room to avoid re-stitching in the previously stitched areas and also have enough room to re-roll those stitching areas.  Otherwise you'll have a very unreliable garment.

There's no difference between the leathers a company uses to ship off and the leather quality they use for custom stuff; it all rolls off the same drums.  

Been in leather working for the last quarter of a century; I've heard a lot of the snake oil folks like to toss around concerning leather.

Marin Phil is exactly right with the 'dead natural' comment, and likewise with the necessity of treatments (and properly storing, etc.) of those products.  They are not as convenient as textiles, but it is true they do offer some benefits textiles don't.  You must decide how much work you are willing to put into your gear.  For some, leather may be entirely inappropriate while for others it is the only suitable option.

Hang around the pits in racing for a while and you will see the A*s, MotoGP, etc leathers get thrown away after each crash when they come apart and the Vanson, Syed, Barnacle Bill leathers get reused for many years and dozens and dozens of crashes.

I have had cheap leathers that I threw away after each crash. My current Syed suit has survived a number of worse crashes with only a bit of restitching and a couple of patches.

[highside]

I use both. I wear leather if I have a reasonable expectation that the weather isnt going to turn to absolute crap while i am riding. In Seattle that pretty much means that I wear textile in the winter for any ride that lasts for more than an hour or so.  I greatly prefer leather as I find it more comfortable, but it isn't great in extreme rain or cold.

[Johnny Monsoon]

Hang around the pits in racing for a while and you will see the A*s, MotoGP, etc leathers get thrown away after each crash when they come apart and the Vanson, Syed, Barnacle Bill leathers get reused for many years and dozens and dozens of crashes.

I have had cheap leathers that I threw away after each crash. My current Syed suit has survived a number of worse crashes with only a bit of restitching and a couple of patches.

Cows is cows bro.  However I'll say you're correct if you're speaking only on terms of the grade of leather and thickness.  You *could* get thin, low-grain leather, I suppose, but that's easy to identify.  You can't simply assume that ANY manufacturer will make a good garment (especially with even big brand names actually being made in Taiwan, China, etc.).  

At the end of the day, a good inspection of your potential garment is going to be required.  Good leather is like porn, tough to talk about and describe but recognized instantly once seen.

[Boone]

Sorry for being the guy that is posting without reading the thread, but don't count out Motoport's Kevlar offerings.  The guy there (forgot his name) will work with you to get your EXACT measurements so that he can make a product that is custom fit specifically for you.  I have a pair of the stretch kevlar pants, which are awesome for touring (except on the hottest days - you might want the kevlar-mesh for those).

The downside is that they take a little while to produce - however, get your order in now and they'll be ready way before spring.

[WBill]

One nice thing about a good leather jacket is that it looks better for when you're not riding.  My textile togs are pretty bulky with their armor, and I tend to leave them on the rack unless I'm riding.  My leather jacket is from Fox Creek.  It's a quality garment, with thick hide, and has vents for warm weather.

[JonS]

Leather is my first choice, but for cold and/or wet, textile is better. I really don't see a hard and fast rule on which is better. As far as longevity is concerned, leather wins. My 25 year old Fieldshear leather jacket is still good and fits better than ever. If it had modern armor I would wear it regularly. As it is, my leather is AGV. The pants and jacket zip together, full circumference. Good stuff!

[RickC1957]

Hmmm I was touring CO/UT/AZ this summer...in Page, AZ it was 110....I was wearing full leathers....only place I was hot...was at gas stops...and the back of my right calf...in the afternoon...the sun was beating down and it felt like my calf was roasting on the pipe. I'll wear leathers until it drops under 40 degrees. I know leathers are way safer than any textile.

[Ant]

Leathers are far more comfortable than textile once they are broken in]. I bought my first set of leathers (2 piece) and my first thought was "oh god what have I bought". Once they've softened up though they are great.
As for safety I'm not qualified to answer that question but my mind tells me that leather is better
Heat isn't a problem until you're sat cooking in stationary traffic or you get off the bike to get petrol or something, as long as there is air flow then you ought to be fine. In colder weather I've started wearing my rain suit, not because it is raining but just because it is a good wind break and that is the primary cause of being cold (well it is for me anyway). YMMV of course.


Plus leather looks cooler