Gen 5 vs Gen 6 VFR

[tourinoob]

I`m looking at a couple VFR`s..one being an 01 with 10k miles in red ($5,500) and the other is an 04 with 768 original miles (!) for $7300 (in black).

I`m dead set on a VFR for a variety of reasons, even though i have not yet ridden one (I know I know). I`ve heard (mostly here) that the pre-vtec motor is the way to go. Other than that what are the differences? And yes I am going to ride one before I buy.....maybe..

By the way do these seem like fair prices? The 04 seems like a good deal and from what I`ve noticed VFR`s hold thier value much better than other bikes...maybe its just a Nor-Cal thing!

Thanks in advance for the help!!

[tourinoob]

I`m sure this topic has been covered 1,000,000 times here, but can we do it again for the noob?

[Rogue]

5th gen vs 6th VFR......

The 5th gen weight approx. 38 lbs. LESS than the 6th gen according to Motorcyclist.

The 5th gen engine is the last of the gear-driven DOHC.  So it has that distinctive sound that can only come from gear driven cams.  Also, gear-driven DOHC rarely ever break or wear out their cam drive layout, unlike chain driven DOHC which sometimes wear out or has a malfunction in their cam chain tensioner.  The 5th gen engine, without the V-TEC also has a more linear power delivery, without the 6th gen's step when it goes into 4-valve operation somewhere around 7k RPM.  Same horsepower overall, with the 5th gen having a  2-3  horspower  advantage on average.  But the 6th gen has more torque.  Anyway, the weight gain negates most of the torque gain so both bikes are pretty much even, except in the dyno room.

The 6th Gen does have a much more stiffer chassis (hence most of the weight gain) that probably give it more handling responsiveness when pushed hard.  

That's about it.  The 6th gen is more of an evolutionary improvement over the 5th gen.  All of the things that make the VFR the great do-it-all bike that it is stays intact and fresh on both generations.  Neither has an advantage over the other.  The biggest difference is in looks.  Do you prefer a rounder bike, or a more sharp endged, stealthy looking bike?

I do think the 5th generation is easier to flick into turns and requires less effort to ride fast in the twisties due mainly to its lighter weight.  Although how much of a difference that really makes is up for debate.  I also prefer the engine sound of the gear-driven DOHC, as well as the knowledge of not needing to replace the cam-chain tensioner when that engine accumulates mileage.  Although that is probility going to be an issue for higher mileage/older bikes.  I could be wrong.....

Personally, I like the looks of both bikes.  But I REALLY like the lower weight of the 5th gen.  It's probably just a perceived advantage but 38 lbs. should be noticeable.  If given a choice between the two generations, I would be very hard pressed to choose.  At the same price and same mileage, I would choose the 5th generation.  But that will rarely be the case.  Just like in your scenario, the 6th gen will usually be more expensive and have lesser mileage.  I'd say get the 5th gen, take the difference in price and use that to farkle up your bike with upgraded shocks and forks, exhaust, powder coat the wheels, etc.  Maybe get a new riding outfit, helmet, radar detector, I-pod and so forth.  9k miles isn't much of a difference on a Honda.  Really!  Mine has close to 33k miles and the engine runs like a top and burns no oil.  They are very durable.

[Gsam]

I don't think you can go wrong with either .. but I love my red 04.

[jeremy556]

If you are in the US, there was no Black in 04, so check for other crash damage - engine cases, lower fairing stay, frame along the edge of the side fairings below the tank.

5th gen is lighter and has a better engine. 6th gen is more modern looking, has better headlights, available hard luggage, available ABS.

[Bandera]

tourinoob,

While I'm a staunch 5th gen guy I admit that the ABS availability, OEM hard bags and improved lighting on 6th generation VFRs is an improvement in design. But I'd still rather ride a good 5th gen myself.

From a maintenance perspective I've had a challenge in the last 50K miles in finding techs qualified to properly perform a 16K valve check on my machine. The excessively complicated V-tech valve adjust may never have been performed to spec on this continent yet, although many have been charged the shop rate....

Regards,

-Bandera

[jeremy556]

The excessively complicated V-tech valve adjust may never have been performed to spec on this continent yet, although many have been charged the shop rate....

The valve check is really not difficult, just time consuming. You have to remove the camshafts and install slide pin stoppers into the vtec valve lifters (buckets), reinstall cam shafts, check clearances, remove the cams again, remove the slide pin stoppers and swap out shims and vtec valve lifters (buckets), then reassemble.

While most dealers are not performing the service correctly from what I have seen and heard, it certainly has been done correctly on this continent as I have done it personally and know of others that have done it as well. I checked mine at 32K miles and set all of the valves to the loosest end of the spec and don’t plan to check them again, ever. I have about 60K miles now.

[Bandera]

While most dealers are not performing the service correctly from what I have seen and heard, it certainly has been done correctly on this continent as I have done it personally and know of others that have done it as well.

jeremy556,

Good on you!

I applaud an owner who can perform complicated tasks per spec, unfortunately I doubt that Honda dealer/techs are meeting the same quality metrics.  
Not having the same mechanical skills I back away from owning machines beyond the maintenace capability of the very well vetted techs I can hire.

As a certified project manager I'm finding qualified techs who can meet the QA/QC standards on my '98 few and far between, a 6th gen machine pushes Quality into Never-Never-Land at the owner's expense and regret.  

Regards,

-Bandera

[tourinoob]

If you are in the US, there was no Black in 04, so check for other crash damage - engine cases, lower fairing stay, frame along the edge of the side fairings below the tank.

5th gen is lighter and has a better engine. 6th gen is more modern looking, has better headlights, available hard luggage, available ABS.

Very Good to know...I`m checking the bike out next week and will look for those things. And thank you all for for the help!! Gawd I hate making these decisions....

[GooseMan]

Yeah, as its been said before, the 6th gen has available ABS and hardbags. Two of the main reasons I'm looking at a 6th gen VFR myself.

I actually test rode one last nite, turns out my new neighboor has one! I've only ever ridden my Bandit 400, so the VFR was a HUGE difference. The biggest thing for me was the size of the bike, felt HUGE compared to my little Bandit. Also felt kinda sluggish/heavy in the turns...but then again, I'm comparing it to a 380 lbs 400cc naked bike, so what do I know  

I do see a VFR in my future tho  

[UFO]

I've owned both generations.  I would break it down like this:

5th gen:  lighter, more flickable, sounds sweeter, better as a "sport bike"

6th gen:  factory bags, felt more roomy even though I'm not sure it was, better as a bike to take touring.

[Nitro]

You win either way!!  

had em both..you cant go wrong !

 I found  the 6th gen handled  noticeably better stock on the roads i ride. The extra weight was offset by the handling to me.
Personally i  found the  6th ergos a hair better, maybe they look the same, but it felt diff to me.. Could take or leave the vtech as didnt bother me either way, worked just fine, cool gimmick , never a problem with it, was all noise anyway.I just geared it down a tooth and a much better bike all round.

But On my  fifth i like the engine much more, it sounds  cooler, it has no efi glitchs at any speeds, and my 00 is a bit  quicker, and  consistently much better on fuel, than my 6th.

Personally i also like the analog speedo, on the 5th, but I like being able to toggle between metric and imperial on the 6th dash,
 but really no big deal either way.

Comfort  and wind management is great on both.

Both are probably a tie for the  most comfy long distance bike I ever owned. I never woulda thought that  before i owned one, and  never once  found anything  hurt after riding them all day ( a rare thing). Cept the arms when i put the big shield on and lost my lift. My fault.
My occasional passenger actually finds it comfy back there, long as i have the backrest on,and the sticky seat cover. so they both  work great for my 2 up stuff.


My only beef with the old one is the  @#%@  carry on whenever i want to get the seat off..those $#^% rear cowl bolts are a pain!!

Myself ,dont want the hardbags so that doesnt  affect me. But a nice feature  of the 6th for those that do!!



I didnt find the valve thing a big deal either way as I do it myself, in the off season,and  just takes a lot longer on the 05..having to pay might  make me think much diff.

But  as much as i like the 5th engine better, having the cash, i would certainly go with a 6th  abs myself.
Hope to have one next year again..

 just depends on the budget..

If you have never had either, you wont  know the diff  and will be happy with either one!!

good luck!!

[Drain Fade]

I`m looking at a couple VFR`s..one being an 01 with 10k miles in red ($5,500) and the other is an 04 with 768 original miles (!) for $7300 (in black).

I`m dead set on a VFR for a variety of reasons, even though i have not yet ridden one (I know I know). I`ve heard (mostly here) that the pre-vtec motor is the way to go. Other than that what are the differences? And yes I am going to ride one before I buy.....maybe..

By the way do these seem like fair prices? The 04 seems like a good deal and from what I`ve noticed VFR`s hold their value much better than other bikes...maybe its just a Nor-Cal thing!

Thanks in advance for the help!!

Ok...let me tell you from a previous multiple VFR owner. I had a '90 and an '01....the '01 was better If your heart is set on a VFR (I have no idea why although you'll never know until you own one) then get the '01 hands down. The motor will last forever and the maintenance is still easy. Also less to break...at least that's my opinion. It's a rock solid motor and you'll have nothing to worry about, I'm sure the VTEC guys will go crazy on me but all I've heard are bad things about it...that it takes a bit to get used to and the RPM point in which it engages sucks...even the new one. I don't know about you but I'd rather get a kick in the pants when I want, not when the ECU decides to. Get the '01, you'll thank me later.
Now on to reality...the VFR is under powered and overweight...but it sure does sound good

[olorin]

The 04 was Asphalt black.

[Viffer Vern]

If you are in the US, there was no Black in 04, so check for other crash damage - engine cases, lower fairing stay, frame along the edge of the side fairings below the tank.
The 04 was Asphalt black.

+1.  I ride an Asphalt black 04.  I'm assuming that this is what you mean by black.

I haven't had the opportunity to ride a pre-VTEC model but hope to some day so I can understand the difference between the two bikes.  

Speaking for myself only,  I can say that I've had a great time on my 04.  I picked the bike up in mint condition from the original owner who put 3900 miles on it by the end of 2005.  He sold it to me for $6400 (believe it or not), including a set of Cortech saddle bags, a pair of Held gloves, and a Shoei RF900.  As if that wasn't good enough, the bike still had a year left on the extended warranty.  I think it was the best deal I have ever gotten on a bike.

Fast forward almost two years and I'm just about to turn 20K and my bike has been trouble free with the exception of an occasional sticking gas cap.  In the beginning, the throttle response was on/off like a light switch.  However, once I synched the starter valves that issue cleared up and the throttle response has been fine ever since.  I am just about to do the 16k  valve adj (you can push it to 20k) and am looking at about $525 from my local Honda dealer. I interviewed him about the details of the bike and he satisfied my concern about competence. Yeah, $500+ for a service is going to hurt a bit but I knew that before I bought the bike.  I have no regrets.

One other maintenance issue you do need to be aware of on the 6Th gen is that Honda just issued a safety recall on part of the wiring harness on 02-05 models.  Look under Honda on this board for a thread I posted earlier in the month about this.  Don't let this be a deal breaker if you are leaning toward the 6Th gen model.  Honda will get it taken care of and then it will be a non issue.  Also, if the 04 you are looking at really only has 700 or so miles on it then it shouldn't be a problem for you either.  Check the 30 amp fuse off of the battery under the seat to see if the white fuse holder Assembly is browning which is a sign of overheating.  I've had no problems with this and I run heated grips, vest, and a GPS on my bike.  

This bike is easy and comfortable to ride all day long, day after day. I rode mine across the country on a 12 day, 4000 mile trip and it surprised me that I could spend 8-12 hours in the saddle without getting kinks in my neck and shoulders.  Day in and day out it strikes a perfect balance for me.  It's a great commuter and is a blast to flog in the twisties.  Yes, it is heavy compared to a sport bike but it wears it weight well.  Part of that weight increase is for the beefy steel sub-frame that supports the undertail exhaust and the optional hard bags.  Furthermore, the 6Th gen is not meant to be a full on sport bike.  It's meant to be sport touring bike and it does a good job filling both of those roles.  It's true that you loose that trademark sound of the gear driven valvetrain of the previous generations. On the other hand you do get a nice change in the exhaust note when the VTEC kicks in.  One other note:  My VFR is bone stock.  No engine or suspension mods.  It is the first bike I have ever owned that I've been content to just ride it for what it is.  

It's all going to come down to what your preferences are but whatever generation you get you I'm sure you will enjoy owning a VFR.

[Rogue]

...In the beginning, the throttle response was on/off like a light switch.  However, once I synched the starter valves that issue cleared up and the throttle response has been fine ever since....  

Just to clarify, what Honda refers to as "Starter Valves" and/or "Starter Valve Synchronization" is actually the same as the FI Throttle Body Synchronization.  This is not a recommended service for VFR's unless the bike has issues with the FI at low speed, lumpy idle, hard starting, or throttle response.  

I recently just about read the VFR Service Manual looking for FI Throttle Body Sync procedures and could not find any.  It's not in the regular maintenance table either.  Nevertheless, the Starter Valve Sync is much easier to do than a standard FI TB Sync on other Fuel Injected bikes.  Thank you Honda.

[vitaminC]

I`m looking at a couple VFR`s..one being an 01 with 10k miles in red ($5,500) and the other is an 04 with 768 original miles (!) for $7300 (in black).


By the way do these seem like fair prices? The 04 seems like a good deal and from what I`ve noticed VFR`s hold thier value much better than other bikes...maybe its just a Nor-Cal thing!

Nothing really to add in the inter-genertational debate, but I will admit to trolling CL pretty regularly, and I think you can do way better price-wise than either of those...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/436624343.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/mcy/435768516.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/434318570.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/434610525.html (blue?)
etc...

Note, I'm guessing from your comment above that you're in this area (hint- fill out your profile!)

[Rogue]

With the exception of the top one, all of them are suspect.

The 5th gen is a salvage title.

The next two have been dropped.  Take it from me, a minor drop on these heavy bikes can cause more than just superficial damage.  Brackets behind fairings get bent out of shape.  Fairings get weakened and crack at pressure points.   Be careful because some damage isn't visible until you remove the fairings and look real carefully.

[vitaminC]

If a motorcycle becomes suspect after a no-speed drop, that seems like a case of quite poor engineering.

[jeremy556]

The VFR is stout. The frame and subframe do not bend nearly as easily as other bikes so they survive crashes well. Mine has a salvage title and I have personally totaled it by insurance standards a few times including a nasty 110+ mph crash on the track.

Without frame sliders the side mounted radiators are prone to damage, and the bottom fairing stay will sometimes snap the oil pan tab it is mounted on, which you need to replace the oil pan or rig something up.

[tourinoob]

Good finds Vitamin..I scan CL religiously. The 1st one I`m actually going to go look at this week, but I`m seriously digging the blue as well




Note, I'm guessing from your comment above that you're in this area (hint- fill out your profile!)
[/quote]........and done

[tourinoob]

hmmm didnt insert the quote....ehhh you catch my drift anyway

[Viffer Vern]

Just to clarify, what Honda refers to as "Starter Valves" and/or "Starter Valve Synchronization" is actually the same as the FI Throttle Body Synchronization.  This is not a recommended service for VFR's unless the bike has issues with the FI at low speed, lumpy idle, hard starting, or throttle response.  

I recently just about read the VFR Service Manual looking for FI Throttle Body Sync procedures and could not find any.  It's not in the regular maintenance table either.  Nevertheless, the Starter Valve Sync is much easier to do than a standard FI TB Sync on other Fuel Injected bikes.  Thank you Honda.

Rogue,  which manual you are looking in?  I've got the 2004-2004 VFR800/A manual and the procedure is listed in section Fuel System section on page 5-76.  

[Rogue]

If a motorcycle becomes suspect after a no-speed drop, that seems like a case of quite poor engineering.

ALL MOTORCYCLES are suspect after a no speed drop.  They all sustain damage.  Some easily visible, some not obvious.  A bike with a fairing has additional parts that can be damaged/bent/cracked.  So if you're just looking at the bike from the outside of the fairing, it seems the fairing are just scratched.  But there may be bent fairing stays and other stuff you don't know about that are hidden behind the fairing.

Vern, my Service Manual is a 1998-2001 VFR800.  The Starter Valve Sync is listed in the fuel section as well, but is NOT in the maintenance table as a regular service interval.

[Viffer Vern]

Vern, my Service Manual is a 1998-2001 VFR800.  The Starter Valve Sync is listed in the fuel section as well, but is NOT in the maintenance table as a regular service interval.

Yeah, it's not listed in my book either as maintenance item.  It should be because it's as common as a carb sync, and it make a HUGE difference in the ridability of the bike.  

I did a track day before doing the sync and I remember that it was really difficult to set up for turns due to the abrupt power delivery.  I intend to do another track day and I suspect that it will be a much better experience.

[skater69]

I just test rode a '00 VFR.  I've crossed the VFR off my list officially now.  Don't want the VTEC....my shop won't work on it....and I sure won't.  The 2000 was a nice ride but underpowered IMO......not enough juice.  No dice for me.

[vguy]

I've owned both generations.  I would break it down like this:

5th gen:  lighter, more flickable, sounds sweeter, better as a "sport bike"

6th gen:  factory bags, felt more roomy even though I'm not sure it was, better as a bike to take touring.

I have noticed that the Skipper kept his 5th gen.  

[bill rowland]

I work in sales at our local dealership.Bought a 98 vfr new off the floor, have done the most common mods to the bike .Pipe, filter, ect.But always wanted a little bit more.So I invested in Racetec gold valves,and springs, Ohlins in the back. I must say it transformed the handling of the bike.But the kicker was when I had the bike dyno tuned by Mike Velasco here in the nortwest.Before 100rwhp, after 108.It now has over 62k trouble free miles on the od.The valves have been checked every 20k miles, never have they been out of adjustment.Ill put it up against any sport tour on a 5k mile trip.

[kyzrex]

I've found a fairly local dealer (only about 100 miles away) that has 2 leftover 2006 models on sale, 0 miles on both.  One is white, other is black...either one is 7499.00.  I think I'm gonna check these out next week and probably pull the trigger.

[traveler]

I've found a fairly local dealer (only about 100 miles away) that has 2 leftover 2006 models on sale, 0 miles on both.  One is white, other is black...either one is 7499.00.  I think I'm gonna check these out next week and probably pull the trigger.

That's a lot of bike for the money. I doubt you'll be disappointed. They're beautiful in either color.

As for me, I'm still happy with my 2000 VFR, with over 75,000 miles.

[Viffer Vern]

I've found a fairly local dealer (only about 100 miles away) that has 2 leftover 2006 models on sale, 0 miles on both.  One is white, other is black...either one is 7499.00.  I think I'm gonna check these out next week and probably pull the trigger.

I'd jump on that.  Is it asphalt black like the 04's?  If so you will like the color over the long run.  I've done a lot of riding in the rain and well, mud on my black bike and all and all it still cleans up really nice.

BTW, what part of the country do you live in where they have left over models laying around like that?  That deal would be gone before you even knew about it in CA.  Great find!

[rauchman]

I'd jump on that.  Is it asphalt black like the 04's?  If so you will like the color over the long run.  I've done a lot of riding in the rain and well, mud on my black bike and all and all it still cleans up really nice.

BTW, what part of the country do you live in where they have left over models laying around like that?  That deal would be gone before you even knew about it in CA.  Great find!

The 06's have a metallic flake black....almost gun metal grey but darker.

[tripledigits]

I just test rode a '00 VFR.  I've crossed the VFR off my list officially now.  Don't want the VTEC....my shop won't work on it....and I sure won't.  The 2000 was a nice ride but underpowered IMO......not enough juice.  No dice for me.

I sold my '02 VFR for precisely that reason.  It was a great bike in every respect but power.  I do some freeway commuting, and the bike doesn't have the grunt in 6th to contend with traffic.  I did like the ABS, ergos, looks and handling.  VTEC was an unnecessary and complicated feature.  Bought a Blackbird to replace the VFR and have never looked back.

[MuddDawg]

I sold my '02 VFR for precisely that reason.  It was a great bike in every respect but power.  I do some freeway commuting, and the bike doesn't have the grunt in 6th to contend with traffic.  I did like the ABS, ergos, looks and handling.  VTEC was an unnecessary and complicated feature.  Bought a Blackbird to replace the VFR and have never looked back.

So why didn't you just ride 1 gear down?

[traveler]

So why didn't you just ride 1 gear down?

Exactly. When I ride the local freeways, I'm usually in 4th or 5th, to be able to dodge all the idiots. Hurts fuel economy, saves lives.

[kyzrex]

I'd jump on that.  Is it asphalt black like the 04's?  If so you will like the color over the long run.  I've done a lot of riding in the rain and well, mud on my black bike and all and all it still cleans up really nice.

BTW, what part of the country do you live in where they have left over models laying around like that?  That deal would be gone before you even knew about it in CA.  Great find!

update on the 2006 vfr's.....called the dealership yesterday and got the "out the door" price.....add 637.00 dollars for fees and other charges!  I don't mind paying resonable costs...but 250.00 for dealer prep?  Who's preping it?  Al Ludington?  Only the black one is left...sspowersports, clarksville, indiana