Engine surge

[dm_gsxr]

Ok, now that it's colder, the Hayabusa is acting a little weird.

I've noticed lately that while steady, the engine seems to surge a little. Just enough to cause me to bounce around, not like I'm surging to 100mph or anything

Earlier this summer I put some Sea Foam in the tank (split into thirds; one third for each tank full of gas).

From a troubleshooting standpoint, it could be the injectors or one of the sensors in the air/fuel system. I cleaned the air filter at the start of the summer and I've never cleaned/replaced the fuel filter.

Just some thoughts.

Anything you can think of? It just started a few weeks ago. Now that it's even cooler, it's even more pronounced and it's all through the commute.

Carl

[mike goodwin]

How many miles are on the Busa??

Fwiw i am no fan of the way Suzuki incorporates that fuel filter to the fuel pump and you will faint when you see their asking price.
Why they just didnt do it like BMW does is beyond me.
Mine costs a whole $13.00 and take about ten minutes to change.

[dm_gsxr]

How many miles are on the Busa??

Fwiw i am no fan of the way Suzuki incorporates that fuel filter to the fuel pump and you will faint when you see their asking price.
Why they just didnt do it like BMW does is beyond me.
Mine costs a whole $13.00 and take about ten minutes to change.

65,200 miles or so. That's why I figure it's time to get it replaced. I'll check the service manual but how hard is it to replace? I know the fuel pump is in the tank so it sounds like a pain but just wondering.

It's just weird that it all of a sudden started. I was thinking it was something I was doing now that I have the Gerbing's gloves back on; loss of sensitivity an all. The 'busa's throttle is pretty light so it wouldn't take much. But I did some specific testing this morning and it's definitely the bike.

Thanks.

Carl

[mike goodwin]

The filter on those ar fairly large but still at 65k i would think it should be done.
I checked Ron Ayers online and that Suzuki filter is only $195.00.

[dm_gsxr]

The filter on those ar fairly large but still at 65k i would think it should be done.
I checked Ron Ayers online and that Suzuki filter is only $195.00.

Ow

Ok thanks for the info.

Carl

[DmCole]

is the bike stock or modified, most modified bikes the cold will affect more, especially if it is set lean already, if you have a power commander you may have to down load a different map
Most stock bikes are OK, i have ridden mine to +36*F seems to run OK,
You may want to check battery connection, I had similar problem a few months ago, the bikes would run fine for hours then start acting weird, tach would go crazy, found Battery terminal was loose(normally bike should stall, needs battery to run)

[windsorgreen1]

I've noticed lately that while steady, the engine seems to surge a little.
Anything you can think of?

Carl

check the oil for anti-freeze. No, seriously.

[dm_gsxr]

is the bike stock or modified, most modified bikes the cold will affect more, especially if it is set lean already, if you have a power commander you may have to down load a different map
Most stock bikes are OK, i have ridden mine to +36*F seems to run OK,
You may want to check battery connection, I had similar problem a few months ago, the bikes would run fine for hours then start acting weird, tach would go crazy, found Battery terminal was loose(normally bike should stall, needs battery to run)

Engine is bone stock. I've added a few electrical things over the past three years but nothing recently (heated grips and the 5 function meter at the beginning of the year).

Carl

[dm_gsxr]

check the oil for anti-freeze. No, seriously.

I just changed the oil a month ago (prior to starting this new job) and it didn't show any abnormalities but I will give it a look. I think I have a small leak in one of the gaskets since I smell anti-freeze when stopped at lights and at the end of rides but there isn't a leak on the ground. It's been doing that at least since last summer (2006) though. I figure I'll have to get that replaced one of these days but it isn't by any means a fast leak (I have to top off the coolant once or twice a year).

Carl

[Geezer]

Did this start right after you bought gas?

[dm_gsxr]

Did this start right after you bought gas?

Nope, only after the colder weather kicked in. I've filled the tank several times (probably twice a week) in the past month. I generally fill the tank at the same two places; the local 7/11 or down on Broadway where I get my snacks for Wednesday's game night (about every other week).

Carl

[Bueller]

It may be the oxygen sensor.  When these start to go the bike is OK while you vary the revs, but surges and chugs when you try to hold a constant speed.  They also tend to fail with colder weather.

[dm_gsxr]

Hmm, that's a possibility I guess. A quick look in the manual doesn't show one. There's a Air Intake Pressure, Throttle Position, CKP, CMP, Air Intake, Engine Coolant, Atmospheric Pressure, and Tipover sensors.

I'll have to pull the fuel filter though and see if it's cruddy.

Carl

[windsorgreen1]

I just changed the oil a month ago (prior to starting this new job) and it didn't show any abnormalities but I will give it a look. I think I have a small leak in one of the gaskets since I smell anti-freeze when stopped at lights and at the end of rides but there isn't a leak on the ground. It's been doing that at least since last summer (2006) though. I figure I'll have to get that replaced one of these days but it isn't by any means a fast leak (I have to top off the coolant once or twice a year).

This is what happened to my buddie's ZZR-1200. He smelled anti-freeze once in a while , no leaks. When the temps got colder he got the surging like you explain  & only once the bike had started to warm up. Kawi found that the bike had a porous head & that that gasket wasn't making a tight fit. This is why I suggested that you check. Hope this isn't the case for you

[Bueller]

Hmm, that's a possibility I guess. A quick look in the manual doesn't show one. There's a Air Intake Pressure, Throttle Position, CKP, CMP, Air Intake, Engine Coolant, Atmospheric Pressure, and Tipover sensors.

I'll have to pull the fuel filter though and see if it's cruddy.

Carl

With injection you usually have an oxygen sensor in the exhaust.  When you are running steady it works in closed loop mode to help the injection set the mixture.  When you accelarate you go to open loop mode which runs the mixture rich.  Do you have a wire coming out of the exhaust anywhere?

It may not be this, just something to try.

[dm_gsxr]

I think I solved the problem, weird as it was.

Tightened the chain

I check the chain about once a month or so and back when I rode to work regularly I'd lube it every Friday. I started a new job after working from home for a year so I've been getting back into the habit of lubing. I'll do the foot check of the chain once in a while and it's been looking ok if a little loose. Last night (being the beginning of the month), I actually bent down to check it and it was a lot slacker than I thought it was so this morning I took up the slack. The ride to work was pretty smooth with just a little "surging". But yesterday I took the SV to work and had the same amount. I expect the little bit I feel is road deformities. Add in that I'd softened the shocks a little a couple of months back and it's all good.

The oil looks fine though and thanks again for the advise.

(It was also partly Goldy's incident with the chain and the pushrod that had me checking as I would normally have checked it on Saturday vs Tues night ).

Carl

[motoguy128]

With injection you usually have an oxygen sensor in the exhaust.  When you are running steady it works in closed loop mode to help the injection set the mixture.  When you accelarate you go to open loop mode which runs the mixture rich.  Do you have a wire coming out of the exhaust anywhere?

It may not be this, just something to try.

Most first generation FI bikes do not have them.  My F4i did not and most of the other FI bikes around 2001-2003 did not.  Most vehicles tend to run rich when the O2 sensor starts to fail.  The sensor allows the engine to run extra lean for emissions and economy.  SO if it's not working properly, the ECU defaults to a richer map.

[Bueller]

Most first generation FI bikes do not have them.  My F4i did not and most of the other FI bikes around 2001-2003 did not.  Most vehicles tend to run rich when the O2 sensor starts to fail.  The sensor allows the engine to run extra lean for emissions and economy.  SO if it's not working properly, the ECU defaults to a richer map.

A friend had a problem a couple of weeks ago which is why I suggested it.  If it fails completely that's one thing but if you have an intermittent failure then it surges and jerks on constant throttle. He rescued the sensor for the time being by securing the wires to stop them vibrating where they come out of the sensor.

[dm_gsxr]

Ok that wasn't it. The oil looks fine. Could it be a slipping clutch? When I was heading out to West Virginia last year, I found a neutral between 5th and 6th. It's happened several times since then.

Just trying to figure this out.

Thanks.

Carl

[maddjack]

Slipping clutch should show different signs than surging,slippage would really show under hard accelleration and on slower hills ect.Sounds to me like O2 sensor or fuel starvation under partial throttle.,What color are the ends of the spark plugs?

[dm_gsxr]

Slipping clutch should show different signs than surging,slippage would really show under hard accelleration and on slower hills ect.Sounds to me like O2 sensor or fuel starvation under partial throttle.,What color are the ends of the spark plugs?

Ok, I'll check the plugs. Simple and easy thing to do right now

Carl

[Frantik1]

Ok, I'll check the plugs. Simple and easy thing to do right now

Carl

Update????

[windsorgreen1]

Update????

bumpity

[dm_gsxr]

Sorry for the delay here

I ordered the clutch plates and the tool to properly change the plates. Took a couple of weeks because the bozo's at the local dealer didn't have my number. I called them to find out what was up.

Anyway, before I started, I posted another note over on the local bike site and someone there mentioned syncing throttle bodies. I did a google search and found:

Common symptoms of unbalanced cylinders is rough idle and low load surging, as well as slight hesitation while accelerating.

That seems to match the symptoms perfectly. So I made an appointment with a local bike shop for Tuesday.

Saturday I replaced the spark plugs (looked pretty good) and cleaned the air filter (I have a K&N). The air filter was pretty cruddy with dead bugs and stuff.

I put the airbox back on the bike and on Sunday I oiled the filter and put back on the bike. Unfortunately the poor 'busa fell off the rear stand when I was done. The FI light came on and stayed on after that. I figured it was a tip-over switch. The guys at the shop suggested I needed to turn the key on and off after it falls over or the FI light will stay on.

On Tuesday I rode the bike to work. FI light on. It sounded a little throatier but it was still slightly surging. They were nice enough to drive over with their trailer, pick up the bike and then come over later to pick me up and take me to their shop.

(I also had them replace the rear wheel bearings with sealed bearings and ordered a replacement rear sprocket since it's in bad shape; I'll be replacing them today or tomorrow.)

They said they found out what the FI light problem was. I neglected to put the connectors back on the sensors *doh* Apparently the airbox wasn't all the way on the throttle bodies on the right side. I'm 100% sure I had it pushed all the way down before I screwed it in. Maybe it popped off on the tipover.

Anyway, when I left the shop, I rolled up to the stoplight and could see a long line of cars (two lanes) coming my way. I know there's a nice long runway (I mean "merge lane" ) so just as the first car entered the intersection to the left, I turned left and accelerated. I didn't feel any hesitation and by the time I got to the end of the merge lane, I was 7 or 8 car lengths in front of the first car.

So it felt a lot better

Yesterday and today I was particularly sensitive to how the bike operated. I _think_ I felt a slight surge while on the freeway yesterday but that's the only time I felt the problem I was feeling before and it might have been me vs the bike (my suspension is a tad mushy; I have to fix it).

So I'm pretty sure synchronizing the throttle bodies fixed the problem. I didn't replace the clutch as it didn't seem necessary however I have the gear for when it's time.

Carl

[FastCat]

The synchronization of the throttle-bodies (or carburetors on older bikes) is directly related to the valve-clearance... when was the last time you checked that?  

[dm_gsxr]

The synchronization of the throttle-bodies (or carburetors on older bikes) is directly related to the valve-clearance... when was the last time you checked that?  

March I think it was. Maybe April. I took it to a shop to replace the front springs with Progressive and had them check the valves as well. I was told three of them needed to have the shims replaced but the others were still in spec.

Carl