Question to those who have served or are serving

[VAbikeguy]

I served eight years (JAN1996 - DEC2003) in the United States Army.  My first MOS was 31F (Systems Switch Operator Maintainer a.k.a. AT&T w/ a rifle) and I later reclassified to 74B (Computer Systems Analyst a.k.a. bitch boy with anything computer or network related).


In today's all voluntary military (in the U.S. that is), why would a CO join an organization who's very purpose is to fight wars for a nation?  

I agree that a CO can support the machine in some capacity, however sticking to the definition, they shouldn't do that either because its facilitating war.

[jerome_oneil]

Were that true, then COs could not serve, and they do.  Therefore, the answer to the original question, as defined by the actions of the US Armed Forces is that yes, a CO can join, and the US Armed Forces will happily use you in whatever facet they can.

No they do not serve.  People granted CO status by the military are discharged honorably.  Lots of people apply.  Most of those are told to STFU and get back to work.

[toddrod]

Have you considered....




 or  

[VAbikeguy]

People try that all the time ToddRodd.  It either doesn't work or gets them into really hot water.  Of course, there's always the fat boy program.  

[Johnny Monsoon]

No they do not serve.  People granted CO status by the military are discharged honorably.  Lots of people apply.  Most of those are told to STFU and get back to work.

I've worked with 4 CO's over the time of my 13 years of service.  One at each duty station.  That's just one out of each shop I worked in, and I'm convinced that there are many more in many other shops & offices.

Sorry, your statement doesn't hold water and is completely untrue.

[jerome_oneil]

I've worked with 4 CO's over the time of my 13 years of service.  One at each duty station.  That's just one out of each shop I worked in, and I'm convinced that there are many more in many other shops & offices.

Sorry, your statement doesn't hold water and is completely untrue.

I highly doubt they were classified as COs.  There are a lot of people that claim to be COs.  Very few are actually granted that status by the military, and those that are are discharged.  There may be exemptions for chaplains, but I know of absolutely none.

It's the same group of people that will tell you with a straight face that the Geneva Conventions prohibit the use of .50 as an anti-personnel weapon.   It's a popular myth, and they even believe it, but it just isn't so.

[Johnny Monsoon]

I highly doubt they were classified as COs.  There are a lot of people that claim to be COs.  Very few are actually granted that status by the military, and those that are are discharged.  There may be exemptions for chaplains, but I know of absolutely none.

It's the same group of people that will tell you with a straight face that the Geneva Conventions prohibit the use of .50 as an anti-personnel weapon.   It's a popular myth, and they even believe it, but it just isn't so.

Nope, we had to make special allowances for them on the deployment rotations.  In fact, one of the reasons the first one I encountered was at my first base is that it was a training base, therefore out of the deployment rotation entirely.

[Z1_NESTer]

USAF '92-'96 3EO31 (Electrical Systems Apprentice) 374th AW CES Yokota AB, Japan

I will try to tell my opinion without repeating what someone else may have already said.I didn't read every post here.

First off, I served during the biggest changes of the military. The Clinton Years. During my time is when there was a big shift in foreign policy, national security and military budgets. My view is that Clinton and his Administration fucked it all up. He was and still is one of the biggest CO's ever to command our military. So I may be a bit brash in saying this but a CO is a pussy.

I joined during the Gulf War in High School at 16 years old without my parents knowledge. I knew I needed to become a man, learn responsibility and the necessary tools to be independent later in life. I felt the need to serve my country and feel a sense of accomplishment. It was mostly what I searched for.

When Clinton reigned we had the somewhat dismantling of the CIA, Somalia, the first attack of the WTC, the failed retaliation of that attack and the softening and downsizing of the military.

For example.... My base in Japan was attacked twice by Japanese domestic terrorists with homemade rocket bombs which both successfully landed on the outskirts of the airfield with only one exploding causing very minimal damage the other a dud. When this had happened it was said it was the dismantling of our overseas CIA operations, that would normally prevent this from happening, and allowed for some terrorist activities go unchecked. Now this may not be true but it has some validity to it.

So if a CO was in the military, let him go. Give him a Dishonorable Discharge and let him pay for his own way home.

I am a proud Airmen and will not ever let anyone take that away from me. The only reason I left and not make a career is that the standards during the change was for the service men/women who more book savvy then technical and were people that would make the new face of our Armed Forces. A  softer, gentler kind of military and I was told, in no certain words, that I didn't "fit" with the new changes. So I did my time proudly and went on with my life and continue supporting our Armed Forces no matter what changes are made or what our job may be.

[SuperHans]

USN 1989 - 1995 Boiler Technician

I think you don't run into CO's as much in the Navy as other branches. I do believe being a CO is something that can happen. Peoples view changes as they get older, when you join at 18 as most people do, you still haven't formed all your opinions on life.

That being said, seem's to me that most people that suddenly become CO's  are just trying to pull a scam. I've seen these types too many times, the guy that is always trying to get out of shit.

I did come across a guy in boot camp that was afraid of guns. We had to shoot some Gov. 45's converted to .22 and he didn't want to do it. All I could think is WTF is up with this guy? Didn't he think being in the military might require him to handle a weapon at some point?

[Strom Nasty]

13 years in.  First 5 as a Military Policeman.  All others, Field Artillery officer.  

Someone who doesn't want to pull the trigger but still wants to serve their nation is okay by me.  As long as they are put in the appropriate job.  

Once they are in and "decide" that they are CO's is another story.  Do your time and get out or deal with the whole investigation thing and then be told to do your time and get out.  Really, not much of a choice.  BTW- In my 13 years in the Army I have not met one CO personally.  I've heard that the stories about PVT so and so in other BDEs or BNs but never personally ran across one.  I don't think CO's are as prevelant as some others do.  

BTW- LT Watada is a disgrace to his uniform and to the officer corps.  I'd like to kick him square in the nutsack.  

[ninjadad66]

United States Air Force, going on 22 years now; 2R1X1 (Production Control), I've deployed twice and looking to my third this coming January.

I don't think you should join the military if you have "CO" beliefs, for you know at any given time you may be called to give your life for your country. After the Vietnam war, the U.S. Military had no issues with "CO" until Desert Storm kicked off, and then you had thousands who claimed "CO" and tried to beat feet when there country called them to duty.

It's possible for one to gain a "CO" belief once the've joined, but it's at that time that they should get out of the military.

It dosen't matter what carreer field you're in, at any given time you can deploy.

[Johnny Monsoon]

It's possible for one to gain a "CO" belief once the've joined, but it's at that time that they should get out of the military.

I completely disagree with this statement.  If people are willing to volunteer their manpower to help the overall mission, despite whatever their beliefs, the military can utilize them; and further, with the retention issues and manpower shortages, that manpower is critical.

In the end, you could say that a non-smoker should never, ever work for a cigarette company, or a non-smoking marketing specialist should never accept work for a tobacco company.  The truth of the matter is that the company (or military) gets what they need, and the individual's needs are likewise met.  If there's a special agreement between the two that need to be made, and both parties are agreeable to it, then it is mutually beneficial.

[ninjadad66]

I completely disagree with this statement.  If people are willing to volunteer their manpower to help the overall mission, despite whatever their beliefs, the military can utilize them; and further, with the retention issues and manpower shortages, that manpower is critical.

In the end, you could say that a non-smoker should never, ever work for a cigarette company, or a non-smoking marketing specialist should never accept work for a tobacco company.  The truth of the matter is that the company (or military) gets what they need, and the individual's needs are likewise met.  If there's a special agreement between the two that need to be made, and both parties are agreeable to it, then it is mutually beneficial.

But that's just it, the overall mission is inclusive of "WAR".  If you claim "CO" and beat feet, you're not helping with the overall mission. If you're a "CO" when war breaks out, then you should be made to suck it up (Stop Loss), I'm sorry if you don't want to have a part in killing today, you should of left when you developed the new outlook on life. This is war people, not collecting butterflies.  

"CO" by all means is your right, but the military should not be your profession. When you take that oath, you agree to defend your country against all enemies.

The non-smoker chooses to stay at that job, and dosen't beat feet when they find out the product being made is going to a smoker. But once a "CO" finds out a war is on the horizon they want to leave even though they new up front war is a possibility, that's not right IMHO.

[SteveG]

   US Navy 1988 - present.  Engineering. (was an MM, now an LDO).

I do believe people’s opinions can change over time based on events and what have you.  However, if you are TRUELY a conscientious objector, then you should get out when you realize it.  Not be WEAK and wait until deployment to throw that flag.  That is the problem I have with the  AF LT.  He is abandoning the people he claims to want to lead, and will force someone else (who may just be coming back from rotation) to go in his stead.  It is cowardice, pure and simple.  If he had these strong opinions before, he should have acted on them then.  

[SteveG]

I think most of our military, at the present time, is absurd at best.  During the late '80s and early '90s they had a serious force drawdown.  That left only the least suited people to lead in the military.  They, of course, gained rank and became the movers and shakers.  The amazing fuck-tardary that exists in the military is beyond comprehension at the current time.  I've seen these idiots repeatedly force out the brightest and most dedicated of new recruits because they are so inept, socially retarded, and completely void of common sense.  In the face of all that, I can see the stream of COs becoming bigger and bigger.

Johnny- I generally just stand by and let you talk about how fucked up the military is, but I am going to have to reply to this one.  You may be talking about your little slice of the AF, but don't paint the whole military with your view. The AF and the Army did RIF(force out) people.  The Marines and the Navy did not.  They offered cash incentives for people to retire early or get out with severance pay.  I am one of the people that didn't get out with the draw down.  I agree that there can be people in charge that are jacked up sometimes.  That happens everywhere, not just the military.  But I will take offense to the fact that you question why MOST of us stayed.  I stayed because I love my job, and I am damn good at it.  The people who get out at various times all have their reasons.  I applaud anyone who serves whether they get out at 2 years or 30 years.  I take great pride in the fact that I help to defend my country.  One thing from your post that I absolutely agree with is that I feel I defend everyone.  Normal, CO, gay, straight, flag burning, liberal, neocon, whatever, even people on bulletin boards who like to pretend they know everything about the military because of thier limited view of one section of it.