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Topic: Slow leak: tire goop? Or new tire?  (Read 2253 times)

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SWriverstone
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« on: November 14, 2007, 05:39:54 AM »

Just discovered I have a slow leak in my rear Bridgestone TrailWing on the V-Strom. It's got 3800 miles, still plenty of tread left.

It's my first slow leak ("slow" meaning I put 38psi in last night and it's down to 13psi this morning), and I'm just wondering...how the heck do you find and repair a leak like that? I mean, it's not a nail in the tire (I checked) or anything else visible.

Is tire slime/goop a viable long-term way to deal with it? (I'm not thrilled with squirting that stuff in there, but if it would mean being able to put off buying a new tire, I'd try it...)

Or should I just chuck it and buy a new rear tire?

As someone once said in regards to motorcycles, "You've only got two. Don't mess around with 'em."

Scott
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« on: November 14, 2007, 05:39:54 AM »

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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2007, 05:46:35 AM »

38psi last night down to 13psi this morning doesn't sound that slow to me.  Slime wouldn't be my preferred fix.  I'd take the wheel off and inspect the tire more closely myself; it's possible there's a headless nail or a splinter of glass or metal or something buried in the tread where it's not readily visible.  I'd also "spit check" the valve stem.
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2007, 05:55:45 AM »

You married?


If not fill your bathtub, remove wheel and stick it in the tub. You'll find the leak right away. Bigsmile

 
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2007, 06:43:10 AM »

Find the leak by sticking it in a big tub of water (creek, bathtub, wash basin, whatever). Could be a bad valve stem. Mark the leak, then take it to an independent tire shop that will let you put a patch on the inside of the tire. Most dealers won't patch a tire. Remount and ride until the tire is dead. I've used Slime/etc a couple to get me home from trips, but that stuff makes a mess the next time you change a tire and *may* not be good for your rim.
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jschmidt

« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2007, 11:01:02 AM »

Get a proper inside patch, then don't give it another thought.
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2007, 11:07:27 AM »

Since there are only two tires touching the ground, I would not use slim, patch or anything else.  My life is worth the $150 for a new rear tire that I will trust.
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jschmidt

« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2007, 11:08:58 AM »


Since there are only two tires touching the ground, I would not use slim, patch or anything else.  My life is worth the $150 for a new rear tire that I will trust.
Uh... what size tires do you use, uh... btw?  Lol
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2007, 11:08:58 AM »


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JohnWayne
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2007, 12:26:51 PM »

First, before you need to tackle the "how much your life is worth" question, find out where the leak is.  Valve stem or puncture.  No slime either way.  If it's the valve stem, get it replaced.  If it's a puncture and it's in the tread and there is any substantial life left, I would plug it/have it patched every time, but then I figured out how much my life was worth a long time ago Wink
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2007, 12:41:20 PM »

Find it and fix it.  Try spraying soapy water and looking for bubbles if you don't want to pull the wheel off.

I'm not a fan of Slime-like products in tubeless tires.  Too much mess.  Makes more sense in tubed tires, where the mess is inside the tube.
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Andrew
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 04:30:18 PM »

Soapy water with a fully inflated tire should show the leak. Depending on the cause of the loss of pressure should determine the repair needed.
Small puncture in the middle of tread (plug or patch)
Valve stem/schrader valve leak = tighten valve or replace stem.

worst case it needs a new tire, the cost is cheap compared to the worst that could happen  Bigok
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2007, 05:49:01 PM »

Valve stem ... replace and ride

Tire ... there's lots of debate.  I'm no expert, so I just replace them when possible.   Then again, this can be very frustrating if you get a flat on a new tire  Sad

Look at your kids, then decide
 
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2007, 05:59:36 PM »

What is the worst that could happen?  

You have a tire with a leak.  You try to fix the tire.  The fix (somehow) does not work.  You now have a tire with a leak.  Nothing is going to explode on you.  

What's that about kids?
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2007, 06:56:37 PM »

Find the leak and then make your decision regarding repair or not.Use a spray bottle with soapy water in it.Check the valve stem.Check the bead on both sides.Then begin with the treaded portion.Do all this after a slow visual inspection.You'll find it.
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2007, 07:16:37 PM »

you have to find the leak before the fix. I've had leaks in a new Z6. Damnit. Pulled the screw out, put Slime in, rotated tire, rotated tire, left with puncture on bottom and came out in the morning to a fully inflated tire. After a few days the slime gels and stays in place mostly. I warned the shop about the slime when I took it in to replace the tire after a screw went through the sidewall. I'll play with tread, not sidewall. Just my .02.

oh, and patching the tire didn't work, that's how I ended up sliming it.
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2007, 07:16:37 PM »


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jschmidt

« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2007, 07:20:58 PM »


you have to find the leak before the fix. I've had leaks in a new Z6. Damnit. Pulled the screw out, put Slime in, rotated tire, rotated tire, left with puncture on bottom and came out in the morning to a fully inflated tire. After a few days the slime gels and stays in place mostly. I warned the shop about the slime when I took it in to replace the tire after a screw went through the sidewall. I'll play with tread, not sidewall. Just my .02.

oh, and patching the tire didn't work, that's how I ended up sliming it.
I'll bet it was plugging that didn't work, right? A proper inside patch is virtually foolproof.


I'm not a fan of Slime-like products in tubeless tires.  Too much mess.  Makes more sense in tubed tires, where the mess is inside the tube.
Just a point of order, you can't use slime in tubes; tubeless tires only. I verified this when I foolishly failed to take their word for it.
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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2007, 02:19:26 AM »

I had a small stick puncture my rear tire right in the middle of the tread.  I put a plug in and it still leaked slowly.

I put in some slime and that fixed the leak and I put another 4000 miles on the tire before I changed it.

I experienced no problems, but as always YMMV
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2007, 09:08:33 AM »




Is tire slime/goop a viable long-term way to deal with it? (I'm not thrilled with squirting that stuff in there, but if it would mean being able to put off buying a new tire, I'd try it...)

Or should I just chuck it and buy a new rear tire?




The world is full of warnings... like stick to 4 wheels because two wheels will kill you...

1 Submerse the tire in water to pin point your leak...

2 If you use slime... you'll regret the mess come tire change...

3 I recommend rope type plugs as opposes to the inside mushroom type plug...

Here's all the poop on wether to plug or not...

Minor tire repair is limited to an area of three quarters of the
normal section width. The maximum diameter of penetration damage
and/or cracking at the base of the injury should be no greater than
3mm. The repair patches must not overlap. If a tire is deemed suitable for
repair (by a professional) then follow the instructions provided by the
manufacturer of the repair material.

For permanent repair,it is only recommended that small punctures
restricted to the tread area be repaired, using a rope type plug. The
current condition of a tire is important in determining whether a tire
is suitable for repair. Some damage limits include: if the tire has
reached its minimum tread depth as indicated by the TWI (tire wear
indicator); ply separation, separation of inner liner and or cutting
of ply cords by penetrating object; brittle or cracked rubber caused
by exhaust heat; broken or bent bead wire, damaged bead zone; damage
caused by under-inflation; softening or swelling of rubber due to oil
or chemical attack; punctures too close together; damage or previous
repair of a puncture outside of area specified for suitable repair.


My screwed Rennsport... boo hoo


My plugged Rennsport that covered 2K miles and not in moderation either...
keep it a secret but it's seen over a buck 40 more than once...


Inside the Rennsport for proof that the rope type plugs stay intact whereas
my mushroom tyre plug started to come unstuck


I'm using the BMW tire repair kit with the rope type plugs


Nylon Rope type plugs found at any auto parts store...


I don't recommend the mushroom type plugs...



What the Manufactures say about tire repairs:

Metzeler quote: "According to the specific regulations of different
country governments, a  general recommendation regarding tyre repair
cannot be given. For your  country, please refer to your distributor.
In case a repair is permitted,  METZELER is only recommending the
repair of small punctures restricted to  the tread area using a
mushroom head type plug. The repair of a punctured  tubeless tyre by
means of fitting a tube is not permitted" .


Dunlop quote: "Any puncture or injury to a tire's tread area obviously
affects performance  and safety. Proper repair is critical. The
puncture must be repaired on both  the inside and the outside of the
tire. Because all parts of a tire are  engineered to function as a
single unit, any repair must take that into  consideration. Only
small, straight-through 3/16" diameter or less punctures  in the tread
area may be repairable, if no secondary damage has occurred."

NOTE: A tire repair can be properly made only if the tire is removed
from the rim; a thorough internal inspection is carried out; and the
repair is  made from the inside out. A repair must fill and seal the
injury, i.e.  vulcanized plug and patch. Only specially trained
Technicians are qualified  to repair a tire. Do not attempt to repair
it yourself.

Dunlop Safety Advisory, Speed Rated Tires: Repaired tires must not be
used in excess of posted speed limits, in race or other competition.
Speed  ratings are not valid for repaired, re-treaded, under-inflated
or  overloaded, excessively worn, damaged or altered tires. "



Bridgestone quote: Riding on an improperly repaired tire is dangerous.
An improper repair can  cause further damage to the tire. It may
suddenly fail, causing serious  personal injury or death. To be safe,
go to your local dealer for proper  tire repairs.

Before having a tire repaired, tell your local dealer if you have used
an aerosol fixer to inflate/ seal the tire. Aerosol fixers could
contain a  highly volatile gas. Always remove the valve core outdoors,
away from  sources of excessive heat, flame, or sparks and completely
deflate the tire  before removing it from the rim for repair.

* Never repair a tire with less than 1/32nd inch (0.8 millimeters)
tread remaining. At this tread depth, the tire is worn out and must be
replaced. * Never repair a tire with a puncture larger than 1/4 inch
(6.4 millimeters)  in diameter. Such tires cannot be properly repaired
and must be replaced. * Repairs of all tires (radial and non-radial)
must be of the plug and  inside patch type. Using plugs alone on any
type of tire is not a safe  repair. * Never repair a tire with a
puncture or other damage outside the tread  area. Such tires cannot be
properly repaired and must be replaced. * Any tire repair done without
removing the tire from the rim is improper. * Tubes, like tires,
should be repaired only by a qualified tire service  person. * Never
use a tube as a substitute for a proper repair.

A tire's speed rating is void if the tire is repaired, retreaded,
damaged or abused, or otherwise altered from its original condition.
Thereafter, it  should be treated as a non-speed-rated tire.


Michelin quote: In case of a flat, take the tire to your Michelin®
motorcycle tire dealer.  Only a professional tire technician has the
expertise to properly inspect a  tire for damage and determine its
repairability.
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2007, 09:59:34 AM »

I'm not familiar with that specific "mushroom" style plug - the kind we use have a similar base, but they have a wire that extends up through the plug section.  It does appear that the outside of the plug was trimmed too closely to the surface of the tread and that allowed it to be pushed back inside the tire over time.  I cannot say for-sure why it failed just based on a photo.

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that for a patch/plug to be properly installed, the puncture must be very close to 90º to the surface of the tread.  Odd angles of penetration will make it impossible to repair safely.

I've repaired lots of tubeless, radial motorcycle tires, and the only failure that I've ever had was with one of those "rope" style repairs.
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SWriverstone
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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2007, 10:15:38 AM »

Hmm...I work on my own bikes a lot...but then again, time=money, and I don't have a lot of time to be messing around with tires underwater or with spray bottles to find the leak (and for some reason, trying to find a leak does NOT sound like a "fun" wrenching job!)

I've been wanting some Metzler Tourances for the Wee...so I think I'm just gonna buy 'em, have the shop mount 'em, and be done with it! (But I'll hang on to my TrailWings as backups...)

Still, thanks much for all the info (especially that encyclopedia on tire repairs Larry!)

Scott
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2007, 10:39:37 AM »


Still, thanks much for all the info (especially that encyclopedia on tire repairs Larry!)


You're welcome Scott...
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