UK Satellite Tracking

[Yankee Dog]

It's hard to believe something so unpopular cannot be reversed by a public outcry or an angry electorate.

Why does it seem that the people are powerless to do anything about it?

Why doesn't one of the political parties run on a platform of reversing Big Brother?

Because it is all done for our own good.  Think of the Childern for God's sake.  

See the post above about sheep.  We are doomed.  

Yankee Dog

[sweeney todd]

It's hard to believe something so unpopular cannot be reversed by a public outcry or an angry electorate.

Why does it seem that the people are powerless to do anything about it?

Why doesn't one of the political parties run on a platform of reversing Big Brother?

Why doesn't one of yours?  Same technology.  Same scenario?

We'll see what happens but I can't help thinking practical considerations will outweigh the 'Orwellian' ideal.  It would be nice to apprehend speeders, for instance, without even taking a photo but national and local governments will be much more interested in getting errant 'road charging' avoiders if this system becomes more widespread as is vaunted.

As to the guy who is moving to France to avoid the argument (and presumably all worries ).  Get real!  Just go la la la and ignore the whole thing wydontcha?

[Orson]

Why doesn't one of yours?  Same technology.  Same scenario?

I wasn't trying to sound disparaging.

I was just wondering why it just seems to be a foregone conclusion.

In the states I'd imagine there would be auto groups lobbying Congress while there would be much hand-wringing amongst civil liberties groups about infringements on their rights....sure, it might pass in the end because the insurance companies have deep pockets and Congressmen love their yachts but not before a brouhaha.

As a road tax solution, I have no qualms. Although, doesn't the tax disc thingie collect enough? As a satellite mounted speed camera...I can't imagine enjoying a jaunt on an empty road out in the countryside, then finding a ticket in the post a week later.

That would totally suck  

[Snowbird]

Why doesn't one of the political parties run on a platform of reversing Big Brother?

Seems to me this is the best way out for any democratic nation.

At the same time also very unlikely since corporate money elects pols and the Big Brother technologies make the corporations money.

[FJR-UK]

That would totally suck

It would truely, as you say, suck.

It would, in fact, be time to give up personal transportation. What's the point of having a stupid power-to-weight ratio if you can't abuse it from time to time?

Anyway, with international terrorism and home-grown yobbery, the majority of the voting public feel all warm and cuddly knowing that Big Brother is watching over them. (It doesn't stop the crime, but boy do we catch the buggers quick! R.I.P. Jean Charles de Menezes)

As my dad likes to say, "If you don't do anything wrong, what's the problem?"

[Ant]

It would truely, as you say, suck.

It would, in fact, be time to give up personal transportation. What's the point of having a stupid power-to-weight ratio if you can't abuse it from time to time?

Anyway, with international terrorism and home-grown yobbery, the majority of the voting public feel all warm and cuddly knowing that Big Brother is watching over them. (It doesn't stop the crime, but boy do we catch the buggers quick! R.I.P. Jean Charles de Menezes)

As my dad likes to say, "If you don't do anything wrong, what's the problem?"

This is the problem, I have no qualms with ID cards and so on and so forth as I don't do anything wrong. Most countries in the world already have such a system, I just know that our Government would make such a monumental f**k up of implementing anything like this that it'd just be a waste and achieve nothing.

As for the speeding issue -  
Speeding is the only law I... ummm... dodge and it would be a shame if this vice was removed, I can see a not-too-distant future where you find that if you crash your bike you're not insured since you've been over the speed limit about an hour ago (so not the cause of the accident)

[Snowbird]

Well, one thing these new technologies will cause is appreciation of the value of older vehicles. Next time you upgrade your bike, consider holding onto the old one.

Same with older vehicles. I'm still driving my 1996 Tahoe 11 years later because I like it better than the newer ones. I will NOT buy a new GM vehicle with OnStar.... and I think they all have it now.

[Aero]

As my dad likes to say, "If you don't do anything wrong, what's the problem?"

That depends on what is defined as 'wrong'. If the government decides that any speed over 50mph is socially irresponsible I suppose we would all be wrongdoers and therefore potential recipients of speeding tickets on a daily basis. Lots of revenue for the government and presumably not so many vehicles on the roads if driving bans follow the speeding fines. Just another form of road pricing really when you think about it....

[forester]

That depends on what is defined as 'wrong'. If the government decides that any speed over 50mph is socially irresponsible I suppose we would all be wrongdoers and therefore potential recipients of speeding tickets on a daily basis. Lots of revenue for the government and presumably not so many vehicles on the roads if driving bans follow the speeding fines. Just another form of road pricing really when you think about it....

  Yeah, because the words "intent" and "purpose" have no meaning.    


Some of you people sheeple are not thinking this through very well.  "Not against a national ID"?  Maybe you'd be fine with the government inserting a tracking device in your forehead then?  Ever heard of RFIDs?  The use of such technologies applied to Gov't I.D.s can track what you eat, what you purchase, how often and on what days you go grocery shopping, and ALL KINDS of other information unnecessary for any "government" to successfully fulfill its civic responsibilities.  

Maybe you don't care if someone is able to track your whereabouts/habits.  There is only one type of entity that desires this kind of information: a hunter.  What value do you think such an entity would be hunting for?    Ponder it.

[Orson]

   Yeah, because the words "intent" and "purpose" have no meaning.    
   Ponder it.

You really should take online tact 101.

Do you have to address everyone as if they're idiots and you're here to correct their misguided attempts at muddling thru life?

Ponder that.

[Boxerdawg]

If the sat. tracking goes in operation It'll be interesting to see what creative evasion technologies evolve from it.  

[sweeney todd]

I wasn't trying to sound disparaging.

I was just wondering why it just seems to be a foregone conclusion.

In the states I'd imagine there would be auto groups lobbying Congress while there would be much hand-wringing amongst civil liberties groups about infringements on their rights....sure, it might pass in the end because the insurance companies have deep pockets and Congressmen love their yachts but not before a brouhaha.

As a road tax solution, I have no qualms. Although, doesn't the tax disc thingie collect enough? As a satellite mounted speed camera...I can't imagine enjoying a jaunt on an empty road out in the countryside, then finding a ticket in the post a week later.

That would totally suck  

I don't think it is a foregone conclusion Orson.  We are having a brewhaha as we speak and understandably so.  Apparently we are one of the most video'd nations on earth but there is no system or real integration, just a lot of city councils, shops, ammenities etc all doing their own thing.  In reality in some places (cities and towns) you may be captured on several cameras but coverage is almost non-existent in most places.

There is a big debate about speed cameras here.  They've proliferated over the past decade and the government is presently scratching it's head wondering why there is no real evidence of road casualty reductions over this period.  They've stayed around the same level as before the introduction of cameras.  Speed zealots still say it's because there aren't enough cameras but even the densest are beginning to realise that drivers/riders behaviour is a lot more complex than they had anticipated and meanwhile, police presence on the roads has declined (don't need 'em.....got cameras.... goes the argument) and drink driving/general bad driving is on the increase.

On the tracking front.  I have sat nav and a couple of mobile phones.  I believe I can already be tracked using this technology although I'm no expert?  Road charging has already started in inner London and has been proposed in several other places although there have been several local 'no' votes most recently in Edinburgh.  The government would like to see it in place for congestion reasons and also increasingly, as some sort of carbon tax.  I think their thinking is a bit muddled and there is plenty of resistance to such measures.

All the technology could be used by any future 'bad' governments to do nasty stuff to their citizens and that alone is good enough reason for me to resist some of the measures but each individual initiative is usually laden with perfectly good other reasons to object such as cost and effectiveness in the case of things like ID cards.

[forester]

You really should take online tact 101.

Do you have to address everyone as if they're idiots and you're here to correct their misguided attempts at muddling thru life?

Ponder that.

Don't you have some oil to drill or something?  

[Snowbird]

Some of you people sheeple are not thinking this through very well.

Imagine that... the "everythings ok" crowd not thinking things through.  

 

[Maltese_Wizard]

looks like you can sign a petition against this Big Brother crap, i can't see them being able to do it to be honest...  

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax

 

[Snowbird]

looks like you can sign a petition against this Big Brother crap, i can't see them being able to do it to be honest...  

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax

 

At least the Brits are petitioning their govenment. But, unlike the US, they have no constitutional right to do so. Correct me if I am wrong. A statutory right is not a substitute.

[Cpl Punishment]

Some good news. Speed cameras will be reduced in number come April. The petition against road pricing by cagers has worked. For the rest...I'm thinking of buying an Enfield...