No more ST3/ ST4 bikes?

[HexHead]

Isn't the S4RS a 999 based monster?

Yep, Michael Lock referred to it as basically a 999S without the bodywork.

[Oilhed]

You must live in the U.S. ?

I stopped by my dealer here and was quoted almost 50% more than that.  Us Canadians are still getting screwed.  The distributors in Canada are really making money these days.

Wow, I remember the days when I ordered BMW parts from Canada to save money.  No tax, no shipping and the sticker prices was less.  Damn strong EURO & $CAN

[st ryder]

Yep, Michael Lock referred to it as basically a 999S without the bodywork.

Does this guy ever run out of dumb things to say?

[atadaskew]

Does this guy ever run out of dumb things to say?

 
The only thing the Monster S4rs has in common is a detuned engine from the 999s. Frame, suspension etc is totally different. Didn't Lock notice that the S4r has a single sided swingarm compared to the dual on the 999?...

[marc11]

Does this guy ever run out of dumb things to say?

Orrrrr he was rather smart in saying it.  Listen, the average squid buys a bike based on Bling and spec sheet numbers.  So here is some 20something kid, and he hears that the S4rs is really just a naked 999 and thinks that it has to be badder, faster and cooler than the 999, right?  I mean, all that plastic has to weigh something, right?

So, off he goes to buy a naked 999 and leaves happy.  

It is also smart for all those people who buy a Tuono because it IS a naked Mille, so the S4rs is to the 999 what the Tuono is to the Mille.  No not really, but if Locke says it is, the average joe blow will not question it.

A lot of bike sales these days is about positioning and selling to multiple market segments and less segmentation.  If you can sell a sport bike as a sport bike, track bike and sport touring bike you "should" sell more of the same bike.  Not always, but in theory, that should work, this is why, IMHO we are seeing more factory supported options such as luggage, windscreens, fairing kits for naked bikes, race kits for sport bikes, etc.

His is still not impressive in my mind, but I think his comment was a bit more calculated than off the cuff stupid.

[HexHead]

His is still not impressive in my mind, but I think his comment was a bit more calculated than off the cuff stupid.

He was referring to it having the 999 engine, Ohlins suspension, radial brakes, for $6000 less than the 999S cost at the time.

Not a dumb statement at all.

[marc11]

He was referring to it having the 999 engine, Ohlins suspension, radial brakes, for $6000 less than the 999S cost at the time.

Not a dumb statement at all.

Exactly my point.  He made that comment with some thought.

[st ryder]

His is still not impressive in my mind, but I think his comment was a bit more calculated than off the cuff stupid.

I think he'd be better off with Hyosung than Ducati since he wants to cheapen the brand with watered down entry level bikes that should be left to the big four. I didn't like this guy from the second I read his analogy of Ducati being more like the Porche of bikes than the Ferrari of bikes. A a small, passionate Italian company producing a virtually hand built product, known for racing championships against the monsters of the industry and sexy red paint, compared to Porche?! Dumb beyond belief. He called a ST4sr a 999 without body work. Dumb beyond belief in the opinion of anybody who knows the difference between shit and shinola. Yes, they may both be brown and smell funny, but.... He called the 696 the most significant Ducati in the last 10 years. Dumb beyond belief. He called PT a great engineer, when Tamburini states he doesn't understand engineering. Who shall we be live? I can hardly wait until he leaves Ducati; he's a real wet blanket IMO. Get a hot blooded Italian in there who bleeds Ducati RED and knows what Ducati owners and prospective owners want. Not watered down cheap bikes, that's for phucking sure.

Here's a great article I clipped from Ducati MS site. The author knows what Ducati is or should be. Lock does not:

http://www.portfolio.com/culture-lifestyle/goods/cars/2007/12/17/Ducati-Comeback#    

[atypical1]

I think he'd be better off with Hyosung than Ducati since he wants to cheapen the brand with watered down entry level bikes that should be left to the big four. I didn't like this guy from the second I read his analogy of Ducati being more like the Porche of bikes than the Ferrari of bikes. A a small, passionate Italian company producing a virtually hand built product, known for racing championships against the monsters of the industry and sexy red paint, compared to Porche?! Dumb beyond belief. He called a ST4sr a 999 without body work. Dumb beyond belief in the opinion of anybody who knows the difference between shit and shinola. Yes, they may both be brown and smell funny, but.... He called the 696 the most significant Ducati in the last 10 years. Dumb beyond belief. He called PT a great engineer, when Tamburini states he doesn't understand engineering. Who shall we be live? I can hardly wait until he leaves Ducati; he's a real wet blanket IMO. Get a hot blooded Italian in there who bleeds Ducati RED and knows what Ducati owners and prospective owners want. Not watered down cheap bikes, that's for phucking sure.

Here's a great article I clipped from Ducati MS site. The author knows what Ducati is or should be. Lock does not:

http://www.portfolio.com/culture-lifestyle/goods/cars/2007/12/17/Ducati-Comeback#    

So, I would hardly call Ducati the Ferrari of bikes. MV Agusta might be the Ferrari of bikes. Ferrari makes cars that the vast majority of people can only dream of owning whereas Ducati makes a product that is absolutely affordable. I know that makes many Ducatisti cringe but it shouldn't. We are absolutely riding a bike that is unique but it is not as exclusive as a Ferrari.

One of us drank a little too much kool aid...


james

[Oilhed]

He called the 696 the most significant Ducati in the last 10 years. Dumb beyond belief.     

What?  

[st ryder]

So, I would hardly call Ducati the Ferrari of bikes. MV Agusta might be the Ferrari of bikes. Ferrari makes cars that the vast majority of people can only dream of owning whereas Ducati makes a product that is absolutely affordable. I know that makes many Ducatisti cringe but it shouldn't. We are absolutely riding a bike that is unique but it is not as exclusive as a Ferrari.

One of us drank a little too much kool aid...


james

Yes, in terms of world GP championships won, and exclusivity by way of exuberant price, MV Agusta is probably a better comparo than Ducati to Ferrari, but that's not saying calling Ducati the Ferrari of bikes is not as accurate as calling it the Porche of bikes for all the reasons I stated above, starting with them both being Italian, both famous for racing victories/championships, both known for sexy red machines, etc.

As for Ducati exclusivity, I believe they are some of the more exclusive bikes by way of their L-twin layout, trellis frame, desmodromics and Italian pedigree, certainly not by price, anybody can buy one, unless of course we're talking D-16 or 1098R, so yes, they can be exclusive by way of price as well.  

"Kool-aid Kool-aid, tastes great, Kool-aid Kool-aid, can't wait..."

[st ryder]

What?  

Before the ECMA bike show he stated that Ducati was going to unveil a bike that they somehow managed to keep secret, and that it is Ducati's most significant model in ten years. Long after the dust settled, and Ducatisti exhaled their breath after waiting for something earthshattering, it became evident he was talking about the 696.

(Rant begins )

He wants Ducati entry level bikes, and sees them as significant. People feel he "knows America." I disagree if this is the type of bike he feels will help Ducati. I feel they should offer great bikes at reasonable prices and use a "good, better, best" approach. More or less what they've been doing. I don't think entry level Ducatis will sell until they go to 12K service intervals, since one can buy any number of bikes that cost less to buy, will perform better, and cost less to service. For entry level bikes, where economy is *the* feature, Ducati makes less sense than a similar big four model. *But,* when you have a little extra money, and want something that offers a little "more" in intangibles, *then* Ducati makes sense from a value perspective. Value equals price and quality. An entry level bike for those for whom price is a barrier that costs twice as much to maintain as a similar product makes no sense to me. I bought Ducati because I am okay with the sometimes higher maintenance costs, in exchange for the riding pleasure it gives me because it has the ability to deliver a thrilling ride, whereas a "beginners" does not have the beans to deliver the same level of satisfaction.  YMMV.