honda st1300 2008 model

[GRN]

I love you Charlie  , when are you coming up to visit again?

[Rocket_Cowboy]

I love you Charlie  , when are you coming up to visit again?

Take the sexual overtones out of that last comment, and then we'll talk.  

This year looks like it's in the trash. Couple of big projects at work have caused me to scrap all my ride plans for '08. I'm going insane. Possible by the end of the year again though ... October-ish would be best if anything is going to work.

[GRN]

Well at least your final drive will last a while that way    

October up this way is awesome, some deeply dumb leaf peepin' flatlander traffic to contend with, but the scenery around the big lakes in NH and ME during fall color is hard to beat. After NNESTOC and the BRC I have to teach the following weekend I may take 3 weeks and head west, then south, then east, then home... maybe we can hook up for a bowl of chili and I'll talk you into finishing out the run with me... that should be early Oct.

[Baz]

Easy fix is to just give a little twist... leave the heat (and any RT's in the immediate vicinity) behind  

Does anything happen when you do this on a ST??????

[UFO]

If you want the vibration of an in-line.  I'm just saying.

Hmmm, my FJR is pretty damn smooth at cruising speeds.

[leo7x24]

My RT makes no heat ... except for when it's brewing the espresso for me.

Seriously though, I had no heat issues with the ST. While test riding a Triumph 675 the other weekend ... THAT bike put off more heat than my ST1300 ever did.

Would you elaborate on what has been repaired or replaced on your 12RT?  Last time we spoke, a new final drive was on order with your name on it.

My 04 ST1300 has 93K.  All of it is out of state touring, mostly up and down mountains.  On the road, I have never had an issue that a tire plug didn't solve.  All I have ever done to it is tighten the hose clamps when the plastic was off for other stuff, perform standard service, and replace tupperware broken by bambi.

Living in North Central Texas, I ride in 90 to 100 degree temps, wearing Motoport Kevlar Mesh.  Last August I rode 4 hours through the Mojave when the outside air temps ranged from 105 to 113.

Any 1300 cc engine generates heat.  IMO the pre-06 FJR and C14 are the worst offenders.  The 12RT is not as hot, but the wannabe 1100 cc engine makes the bike underpowered, vibey, and ugly.  Some are going to be sensitive to the heat.  Most will find a solution (proper pants, taping headers, etc.), but some will not.

Dude ... while you're stopping for gas, I'm already 200 miles ahead of you.

Riding with other 12RT owners, my experience is the RT gets slightly better MPG but does not have superior range to the ST1300.  

We always stop for fuel because the RT is low.  The reason is the ST1300 carries about a gallon more.  The 1300 carries about 5.5 gal in the upper tank, and 2.2 gal in the tank located under the seat (to lower the CG).  In a pinch, about 7.3 is usable taking into account the volume of the fuel pump and location of the fuel pick up tube.

Even if the capacity were similar, the RT's fuel gauge is highly inaccurate and can't be trusted.  BMW is still designing the fuel gauge system and releasing software for it.  

It is also worth pointing out the 12RT's 6th gear is not more fuel efficient at legal US speeds.  6th gear comes into play when cruising above 80 to 90.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

Look what the cat dragged in. Long time no see!

Would you elaborate on what has been repaired or replaced on your 12RT?  Last time we spoke, a new final drive was on order with your name on it.

Visual inspection of the final drive indicated that replacement was not needed. I'm still on the original drive. There was no sign of wear on either the gears or the bearings. In 30K miles on my 1 year old bike, the RT has required less repair work than my ST1300 did when I sold it ... with 33K on the clock ... I've not had to replace any drive flange bearings, no coolant leaks to fix, no failed thermostats, no stripped airbox screws due to Honda certified mechanics over-torquing screws while doing factory recalls.  

Thanks for the concern though ... I have no doubt you were concerned about my well being and just just plodding for dirt to throw at BMW.

Riding with other 12RT owners, my experience is the RT gets slightly better MPG but does not have superior range to the ST1300.  

We always stop for fuel because the RT is low.  The reason is the ST1300 carries about a gallon more.  The 1300 carries about 5.5 gal in the upper tank, and 2.2 gal in the tank located under the seat (to lower the CG).  About 7.3 is usable taking into account the volume of the fuel pump and location of the fuel pick up tube.

Even if the capacity were similar, the RT's fuel gauge is highly inaccurate and can't be trusted.  BMW is still designing the fuel gauge system and releasing software for it.  

Someone needs to take the Honda blinders off.   First, the RTs you might ride with aren't my RT. I've got 11.3 gallons of fuel on board. I can out distance your ST. When you can top 450 miles between stops, maybe I'll think about correcting my previous post. Nah ... that won't happen. Just to be clear, my response was to Greg's post about his SPRINT ST leaving heat behind, thus my comment about it being a triple ... only three cylinders firing ... the Sprint is a three cylinder ... and the comment about having more range than his Sprint had speed. To be crystal clear, the stock RT is listed as carrying 7.1 gallons. The ST is listed at 7.7. Gas mileage aside, in stock trim we're talking a few tenths of a gallon, .6 tenths to be specific  ... ~20-25 miles total difference for that 6 tenths of a gallon capacity difference, assuming equal fuel economy, and you want to argue superior range? Whatever. Oh that's right, you're response will be that BMW lies on all their specs while Honda is the only manufacturer to provide honest and actual specs.  

And the fuel gauge? Really? You've had a lot of RT friends stranded out of gas and needing you to jump on that Jetson powered scoot to rescue them with a gas station run? I believe it was one of your very own ST1300 articles that documented all the caveats for the Honda's fuel gauge, and how it can't read the lower tank. 2.2 gallons is a hell of a reserve with no gauge to indicate level. Pot ... the kettle is calling.

At least we both agree that heat isn't a problem.  

[Giaka]

 believe it was one of your very own ST1300 articles that documented all the caveats for the Honda's fuel gauge, and how it can't read the lower tank. 2.2 gallons is a hell of a reserve with no gauge to indicate level. Pot ... the kettle is calling.

How does the trip computer know when there is less than a gallon left and start its count down to miles before you are out if this is the case? Is it just a BS gauge that is supposed to make you feel good? Just curious since I read the owners manual last night and thought it was a pretty cool "feature" (indicated miles left until push).

[spd2918]

How does the trip computer know when there is less than a gallon left and start its count down to miles before you are out if this is the case? Is it just a BS gauge that is supposed to make you feel good? Just curious since I read the owners manual last night and thought it was a pretty cool "feature" (indicated miles left until push).

The gauge works, but it is a little bit optimistic.  I subtract about 15 miles from the "miles to go" total.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

How does the trip computer know when there is less than a gallon left and start its count down to miles before you are out if this is the case? Is it just a BS gauge that is supposed to make you feel good? Just curious since I read the owners manual last night and thought it was a pretty cool "feature" (indicated miles left until push).

Once the fuel gauge strip is dry, it's an estimate based on your current calculated fuel economy and the expected capacity of the lower tank. On a trip, it works pretty well. Once you get into the countdown, if you start doing frequent short trips, turning the bike off and on between trips, the accuracy will be degraded.

I never saw the gauge to be optimistic, mine was always more pessimistic. I pulled into gas stations several times with the countdown gauge showing me -- miles until empty, but still never pumped more than 7.0 gallons of fuel into the tank.

[leo7x24]

My point was apples to apples, the ST has better range but slightly worse fuel economy than the RT.  If you are 200 miles down the road, it is only because you had the advantage of an added fuel cell, which anyone can do.

The ST's lower tank does have a sensor which reads to 5 liters.  At 5 liters, the reserve indicator trips; time to start looking for fuel.  The upper tank has an old school resitive fuel level sensor which does not require calibration.  This seems to be an accurate and durable system.  

After the reserve, there are no other sensors and the trip computer estimates take over.  As Honda says, the estimates are based upon counting fuel injector pulses for the prior 20 minutes.  It seems like most bikes in this class attempt to perform similarly in this regard.  

My article says to trust the fuel gauge and reserve warning, and don't rely upon trip computer estimates.  The article was written to provide a more detailed explanation of how the system works and why the trip computer estimate is not accurate.

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=1009113

I posted because IMO, the ST gets more bad press than it deserves.  Prospective buyers should spend some time getting familiar with the issues each model has, and understanding the significance of the problems.

Take the ST coolant leaks for example.  Over time, the rubber hoses set under the clamps.  Because a constant tension hose clamp or clip is not used, eventually a leak may develop at the hose fitting; usually at one of the four worm-drive clamps for the two water joint hoses.  If the clamps are checked and tightened proactively a few times during the first 12-18 months of ownership, there won't be a leak.  Proactively means while the owner or shop is doing other service.  Of course Honda could and should address the issue.  But even when this problem crops up, the amount of coolant loss is not measurable and a leak does not force an owner take immediate action.  And you don't need a diagnostic computer or this month's version of firmware to (hopefully) fix it.

All models have issues.  My neighbor sold his 12RT after having his front brake rotors replaced twice (including the wheel once), having an engine oil seal leak which required replacement of the clutch, and loosing a final drive which left him sitting by the side of the road.  His oil level warning system, fuel gauge, brake pad wear warning system and temp gauge never worked accurately, but he abandoned efforts to get them repaired.  The fuel gauge went through some sort of 1/2 day recalibration process twice.  After 20K, he was convinced his expensive Telelever suspension was shot.  There was also some EWS issue athough I don't know the details.  He wasn't pleased with his dealer's ability to troubleshoot and fix problems either.   Probably his experience is not unique.

My own opinion is that as these models fall out of warranty, the BMW 12 series will eventually earn the reputation as the most un-engineered, unreliable, expensive to own/maintain series ever.  We won't know for sure for a while, because BMW is still designing and fixing this series, even though it first started shipping three or four years ago.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

Cool. Don't see how you interpreted my comments about heat being a non-issue as a prompting for a ST1300 vs RT debate, but whatever. Either way, don't be a stranger. Hopefully this doubling of your post count is a sign that you're going to start participating over here?

[GRN]

 

[Baz]

hehehe.....Looks like a my bike is better than yours thingy  

[GRN]

My point was apples to apples, the ST has better range but slightly worse fuel economy than the RT.  If you are 200 miles down the road, it is only because you had the advantage of an added fuel cell, which anyone can do.

Leo, lighten up man. Your comment isn't apples to apples because Charlies comment about 200 miles down the road was a bust on the range on my SPRINT... this all reads to me like you have an axe to grind from other days, on other boards...  

[Giaka]

How is the ST1300 heat compared to the old Concours?

Im able to answer my own question now. The temps the last couple of days have been 85 to 95 and the ST is NOT as hot as the old concours. I think being able to lower the shield and get airflow helps but I am just not feeling the same amount of heat radiating up from the handlebar area or on my legs that I do on the concours.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

Im able to answer my own question now. The temps the last couple of days have been 85 to 95 and the ST is NOT as hot as the old concours. I think being able to lower the shield and get airflow helps but I am just not feeling the same amount of heat radiating up from the handlebar area or on my legs that I do on the concours.

But does the ST wheelie better than the old Connie? I think that it does.

[ST1300Rider]

But does the ST wheelie better than the old Connie? I think that it does.

Charlie..... I'm surprised at you. You know that shaft drive bikes can't wheelie.    

[spd2918]

But does the ST wheelie better than the old Connie? I think that it does.

More low end grunt, so Yes.  If I have the wife on the back or heavy stuff in the top case I lift it without too much work.  But she hates that.