650R or SV650? Help me

[eteller]

Hello All,
 I'm a 38yr. old experienced biker 5'7" 195lbs. who is looking for a bike to commute with and do day trips. Got two small kiddies at home, so long range touring is out for now. Had a F4i, loved the rush, disliked the ergos. Had a DR650, loved the ergos, hated the lack of rush. Had a Nighthawk 750, ehhh! needed to be a Nighthawk 1100. I have about 6k MAX to spend and I'm considering a SV650 naked, or the 650R. I'm sure I can pick up an SV cheap but I'm kinda concerned I'll tire of it. The 650R looks a little more versitle. I sat on a Versyeus at the dealer a few weeks ago and 1. it seemed big (long) like the V-stroms and 2. out of my budget. Thoughts on the 650R vs. the SV?

Ed

[MuddDawg]

My Brother has a Ninja 650 and my Brother-in-Law has a SV 650.  The SV is going to have Ergos closer to the  F4i and the Ninja 650 will me more towards the DR/KLR as far as lean angle gos.  The SV has clip-ons and the Ninja has Standard type handle bars.  You can always change the handle bars to give it a sportier ride.  I did that with my Bandit and put Superbike bars on it($23.00 delivered)  I have not ridden either, so I can't comment on the power.  

[atlantic]

Pick up a used FZ1 or FZ6.  I have an FZ1.  Great bike.  Great ergos and the power will not disappoint.  Very easy to work on and very reliable.  You can pick up a 1st gen (something like 2000-2004 model) for under 5k.

[JReazor]

The SV has clip-ons and the Ninja has Standard type handle bars.

The naked SV has handle bars and a very comfortable, upright riding position. The SV650S has clip-ons and higher pegs.

Edited to add that I've had my first gen SV for nearly 8 years and wouldn't consider getting rid of it.

[Nodaclu]

919?

Not quite a Nighthawk 1100 but in the ballpark.

Could also be had for the $6K budget.

Though I'd probably agree that the FZ1 would be a good choice here.

[Squareman357]

I've ridden both, and they both need a bit of wrist wringing to get to the meat of the power, but the 650R felt like it had more grunt to me.  I'm not a squid, but I like to do hard snatches on the throttle to see how the power comes on.  The SV couldn't power wheelie in first to save it's life with my (then) 250 pounds on it, but the 650R WILL power wheelie in first easily.  I think the power comes on a bit sooner in the powerband on the 650R.  They both felt pretty smooth for twins, but I really liked the feel and sound of the 650R.  I've seen folks replace the bars with clip-ons, but the 650R bars are comfortable and offer nice leverage, and the 650R definitely turns in quickly and likes to lean.  It holds a line fairly well.  I'm about 6'3" and 235 pounds, and the ergos on the 650R were better for me, I felt less restricted, felt like I had more stretch room. The stock seat was OK, but I was only on it for maybe 30 miles or so, not enough to really judge its distance capability, but it'll be fine on commutes less than 50 miles one way. Only things I didn't like about it were the key placement for the seat (under the left side of the rear cowling, like my ZX-14 which I also don't like) and the lack of a fuel gauge.  It does have a low fuel light that is pretty pessimistic, but if you fill up when it comes on, you'll never be stranded out of gas. I was surprised by the 650R, and if I had to choose between those two, it'd be the Kawi.

[PhilBiker]

I agree with the FZ1 and 919 recommendations.  From your description, neither of the bikes you're considering will have enough power for you.  Maybe a ZZR600 with bar risers?

[Squareman357]

I agree with the FZ1 and 919 recommendations.  From your description, neither of the bikes you're considering will have enough power for you.  Maybe a ZZR600 with bar risers?

If neither the SV or 650R will have enough power for him, why suggest the ZZR600?    It's only got about 20 HP more and actually has a little less torque (3 or 4 ft. lbs.) than the 650R, so though it has a top speed advantage, it won't FEEL like it's getting there any faster, hence no rush.

[PhilBiker]

If neither the SV or 650R will have enough power for him, why suggest the ZZR600?    It's only got about 20 HP more and actually has a little less torque (3 or 4 ft. lbs.) than the 650R, so though it has a top speed advantage, it won't FEEL like it's getting there any faster, hence no rush.

In the OP he mentioned that he liked the "rush" from his Honda F4i but didn't like the riding position.  The ZZR may offer what he liked about the F4i with different ergos.

[mikeyman]

650r owner chiming in. I have had it for just over a year. For what you are looking to do, the bike is ideal. I too looked at the SV and bought the Ninja based on look and feel. The performance of the two machines is similar. Originally, I liked the upright stance of the ninja, but after a while the "sit up and beg" scooter-style seating seemed out of place. I replaced the factory bars with ones from Suburban Machinery and the difference was night/day. The ergos are still good, but the new bars put me back in touch with the front tire and the bike handles even better than it did before.

The good...
Cheap to buy. Bought mine used with 2500mi for less than 5k.
Cheap insurance. I pay 38/month for full coverage.
Gas mileage is usually near 50mpg (a bit less when I give it the spurs).
Great handling. Very flickable and confidence inspiring.
Decent power out of the box. Good amount of grunt down low in the rev range and easily keeps up with traffic and more.
You can fit it with Givi hard luggage for some light touring.
Not too many of them out there. Won't see one every 2 miles.

Down sides....

The seat is hard and gets uncomfortable after an hour or so. I plan to change saddles in the near future.
The stock bars are a bit too high for my taste. I changed them.
The exhaust note is a bit muted for some. I don't mind it, but then there are LOTS of aftermarket choices.
It is not an I4 supersport, although it looks like one. Not a problem for me...not what I was looking for anyway.

The SV is a good bike too. You can't lose either way. It comes down to which one you like better.

[McRider]

I assume the original poster is comparing the standard SV650 to the Ninja.  I have ridden the SV and own the Ninja.  Both bikes are so similar in ergos and power that I think the choice should be made on looks and availability.  A used SV will probably be easier to find and if you go back enough years, you can probably get one pretty cheap.  In my opinion, though, the fairing of the Ninja, which hides the plumbing bits and adds wind protection, was the selling factor for me.  

[eteller]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to be getting something here in about three weeks, and alot comes down to availability and condition, plus I really don't want anything with clip-ons. My F4i had about the best ergo's you could get for a sport bike and I still got numb hands after an hour, that's scary when you can't feel you're brake fingers. That definetly leaves out the SV650S. A 919 would be great (gotta love Honda quality) but their really scarce around here. I looked at a FZ6 last week, could get it cheap, but a squid had it, and I doubt it ever saw an oil change. I've heard bad things about FZ1's injection, plus it might be a little out of my price range. I'm gonna look at a Speed Triple here in a few days, not sure what my insurance would do though. I paid about $200 a year for comprehensive on the F4i, not sure if it would be alot worse with a hooligan liter bike.


Bikes on the short list:

1. 650R
     pros: Fairing, hard luggage, cheap to insure,new technology
     cons: price? not enough oomph? two up?
2. Suzuki Bandit 1200
    pros: two-up, lots of grunt, cheap
    cons: finding one that's not beat
3. Speed Triple
    pros: HOOLIGAN bike!!
    cons: HOOLINGAN bike!! (need a lawyer) insurance? price? service costs
4. SV650
     pros: cheap, light, cheap to insure,fun
     cons: lack of oomph? two-up? no fairing
5. 919
     pros: engine, tourability
     cons: can't find one used, two up?

When I say two-up I mean with some luggage and medium sized wife. Oh well, guess i gotta hit craigslist, ebay, etc. Anyone know of any above for sale in the Mid-Atlantic?

Ed

[Dichotomous]

6 of one, half dozen of the other.  the bikes are very similar.  I have heard a rumor that some 650R's had frame issues, so you might want to research into that in case its a serious problem or they have fixed it or if it were isolated.  they are both middle weight bikes with more usable torque and engine than most middleweight sportbikes, and they both have a similar feel as far as ergos, though they are a tad different, the differences are small enough between them that you can take care of it completely with a different set of bars.  
find one thats local, low milage, looks nice, feels nice, and forget whether its an sv or a ninja.  a 919 wont be as practical for commuting, would do better with a passanger, and I hear the exhaust gas makes you smell funny afterward (as do most tailexhausts)

[Squareman357]

Have to add, after seeing your recent post, I'm not sure either of them is going to be good 2-up with luggage.  Single rider with luggage is doable depending on rider weight (I'm about 235), but 2-up with luggage is going to tax the power of either of those, as well as potentially the max load limits.  I don't think I'd pick either of those is serious 2-up ability was one of the requirements.  An occasional ride, sure, but touring, not so much.

[PhilBiker]

Have to add, after seeing your recent post, I'm not sure either of them is going to be good 2-up with luggage.  Single rider with luggage is doable depending on rider weight (I'm about 235), but 2-up with luggage is going to tax the power of either of those, as well as potentially the max load limits.  I don't think I'd pick either of those is serious 2-up ability was one of the requirements.  An occasional ride, sure, but touring, not so much.

+1

[eteller]

Well I've found Craigslist and Cycletrader offer me alot more choices than I first thought. I'm going to include the VFR800 (with helibars) and the ZRX12R to my list. Can't do anything till the end of the month, so I have some time to zero in better on what I want.

Ed

[McRider]

Have to add, after seeing your recent post, I'm not sure either of them is going to be good 2-up with luggage.  Single rider with luggage is doable depending on rider weight (I'm about 235), but 2-up with luggage is going to tax the power of either of those, as well as potentially the max load limits.  I don't think I'd pick either of those is serious 2-up ability was one of the requirements.  An occasional ride, sure, but touring, not so much.

Well, it depends on rider and passenger size and weight.  My wife and I both weigh about 140 lbs and have no trouble touring two-up on the Ninja 650.  

[eteller]

195lbs. for me and 150lbs for da wife. Two up is not a huge deal as the wife is not too interested in bikes, and we have little ones that would need a sitter in order for us to go riding.

Ed

[Johnny Monsoon]

I adore both of these bikes; amazing machines!

Between the SV650N and the 650R, I cleanly give the nod to the Ninja.

However, if you're mulling the SV650S and the 650R, well, it becomes more of a question of mission.  Certainly, the 650R will be more versatile, but not quite as sporting.

Without knowing a whole lot about you personally and just judging by your post, I'd tend to point you toward the 650R.  While it isn't quite as sporting as the 'S', and does have a weak rear shock, it is plenty sporting.  I love the R's engine as well; just fantastic... sneaky fast!

[JReazor]

and we have little ones that would need a sitter in order for us to go riding.

  Isn't that what bungee cords and luggage racks are for?

[eteller]

givi car seat?

[PhilBiker]

I'm going to include the VFR800 (with helibars) and the ZRX12R to my list.

ZRX12 heh heh.  Love it.

[SalsaShark]

Mulling through these posts reminds me of the list of bikes I've owned/ridden...

My .02 for what it's worth

1. 650R - My better half owns one and I'd be lying if I were to say I haven't enjoyed sneaking out on it. I currently own a zx14 and it's fun to get on a smaller bike for short trips. While I haven't had a chance to get out and put any serious miles on it (because I value my life, and she would kick my arse!), I'm anxious to get the blessing to take it into the mountains next summer.

2. SV - My riding buddy is on his second. He bought one, traded it for a z1000, then recently sold the zed to go back to the SV. It's a great light weight street fighter competent bike. For day trips (0 - 300 miles), this bike is a blast to ride.

3. 919 - This was my first sportbike. Everything mentioned in this post is correct except I found it to be a great commuter bike. I found that the bike lacked on the sportier end of things. The frame seemed to bne squishy and the suspension was not the best in the twisties. I had no idea about this until I got my XX, then it became clear that the 919 was best in town, not in the mountains. It also makes you stink! I got rid of the bike years ago, but I swear that my textile still smells from the exhaust.

4. Given your criteria, I would lean heavily toward the VFR. This is a do everything, have fun, rock solid bike with great looks, wind protection, power, handling, blah blah blah... This is the bike that I'm constantly trying to get my brother in law to buy... well that or a futura but those are a bit difficult to come by anymore.



Another thought... Have you looked into the Sprint ST? You can pick up an 05 for around 6K. I bought one of these previous to the 14 and loved it! Great ride, comfortable touring (go figure), no significant power loss two up, easy handling around town. There's one in the classified for $6.5K here... just a thought

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,16931.0.html

[eteller]

Yeah, the VFR might fit the bill, as I would not be as likely to get bored with it. The Triumph is an idea except they are hard to find around here, somewhat exotic for service (although i do 99% of my own work), and a little heavier than what I want. Here's a realistic breakdown of the usage the selected bike will see:

75%- daily 15min commute (on the Blue Ridge Parkway)
23%- weekend fun rides, mainly less than 3hrs.
2%- weekend fun rides 6+ hrs.

Of course I would love to reverse those #'s but wife and work have a way of killing a man's dreams, unless you're Valentino Rossi or Bill Gates. So using the above as a buyers guide almost anything WILL work, it's just will it keep me entertained.

Ed

[PhilBiker]

75%- daily 15min commute (on the Blue Ridge Parkway)

[eteller]

Got a bike!! After rethinking my REALISTIC usage of said item, I bought a 2002 Yamaha YZF600R 9k mi. . It was cheap, nice ergos, needs a little cosmetic work, which is fine because i needed something to do, and I doubt I'll get bored with it. The shop owner I got from is a friend of mine and he threw in a Leo Vince pipe, oil and filter and a new back tire. No if the weather would get out of the 20's I could work on it!!!

[PhilBiker]

I've heard very good things about those YZF600 bikes.  Enjoy.  And change your profile!

[FJRmgm]

After rethinking my REALISTIC usage of said item, I bought a 2002 Yamaha YZF600R 9k mi.

good choice - friend of mine has one and he rides it to work every day.  Nice looking bikes.