GPS for Iron Butt Rides

[With_him]

I am just curious how those in the know may respond.

[BlackValk]

For a relatively simple SS1K, it is probably not needed. You more than likely know the route you will be using, anyway. You have lots of time on a "saddle Sore" 1000 mile ride, but on a tougher ride, like a BBG (1500 + miles in 24 hours), where maintaining at least a specific minimum  "overall average speed", which includes stops, is necessary, then personally I find that function of a GPS to be very helpful to me. It should be noted that not all GPS units give an "overall average speed", only a "moving average speed" on some older units. Hope this helps a little.

BlackValk

#25568

[Rocket_Cowboy]

I think it really depends on the kind of ride you're doing.

If the goal is to do an IBA certified ride, then it's hardly a requirement but might be a "nice to have" for the stats as BV mentioned. The route is usually pretty straight forward, and the average speed/time stuff you can do in your head ... although I like to have that info just a quick glance away.

If the goal is to compete in long distance rallies like the IBR or others, then they become a little more cruical. While plenty of people have finished quite well with paper maps (and so it is still very doable without GPS), the audible prompting and re-routing when I miss a turn are incredibly useful for me.

In the end it's going to be personal preference as to when and where you feel you need it.

[UFO]

GPSs are very nice to have, but hardly required.  For long distance riding the most useful (I've found) is the average moving speed.

This is the number that is most helpful in covering X miles in a set Y time.  Very helpful.

For example:  Bunburner Gold.  1500 miles in 24 hours.  This requires a minimum average moving speed of 62.5 mph.  A GPS is very handy for monitoring this, especially if you get fatigued and want to take a short break.  And if you're well into a timed ride and your avg moving speed is well below the minimum average...you know you aren't going to make it and can just call it.

[DNA]

As others have posted - for a simple SS1K - paper worked fine.
For rallies, the first one with paper was tough - a GPS would have been the diffrence between 5 and 25 overall.  It was still fun - but a puter would have been a big help.
The secone one was much easier with one.

For a BBG - I think it would be a big plus.

FYI - I have  Quest 2 and I'd give 3 out of 4 stars.
-DNA

[BlackValk]

A little clarification of terminology: "Average Moving Speed", and "Overall Average Speed" are not the same. "Overall average Speed" includes non-moving time, and is critical to the math requiring a certain average speed over some number of hours to successfully complete a longer ride. Certain older GPS units are only capable of doing an average of your moving speed, while other "slightly newer" units give the needed "overall average speed". Many of us still use older technology units, like a Garmin III Plus (Average Speed) and Garmin GPS-V (Overall Average Speed)  units which serve our individual requirements well enough. In the example posted earlier of doing a BBG, which requires 62.5 mph for 24 hours (including stops): You may be overall averaging say, 70 mph, when you stop for fuel or food, but the "clock" is still ticking (GPS is "ON" for 24 hours) and 10 minutes later, when you leave the gas station,  your overall average may well be 68 mph or so. You get the idea. This is why the "overall Average speed" is what is needed. Use of a GPS is a subject we all have opinions on, and without doubt, those opinions will vary greatly.  Personally, I would rather have one, than do without one, but it is not absolutely essential for the average IBA ride IMHO.

BlackValk

[Huron52]

On my first ss1600 (Canadian version) I had my GPS running. What I was after was taking a picture of the screen after I finished it for my own piece of mind.   It gave me over the average moving speed, total average speed, top speed, stopped time moving time and overall time to complete.

 I suppose if you are riding in a group and a couple of stops are getting longer than they should be you could see early on you have to start making up some time by either not stopping so often or riding faster.

 At a rally where you can not plan your route before hand a GPS is very much needed as well as the paper map.

[UFO]

Yes, I was referring to Overall Average Speed, not Moving.  

[RowdyRed94]

I found it very reassuring to be able to see our averages and count down the 100-mile increments. For a BB1000, 50mph is a good minimum.

[Davo]

Also voted, fun and sometimes needed but not a must have.

However like the above post if you are doing the BBG rides they are very handy for keeping the avg times.


In that one I have to hold a 107k average, all I had to do was keep focused on making that say 107 or above. At one point at the 1700k mark I ran out of fuel (ended up being a crap load of fuel that didn't do the distance) and it got down to 93k avg while I wasted 40mins. All I had to do was pick up the pace (quite a bit) to get it back on track then slow it back rather than rushing the whole way hoping I would hit the mark.

[Huron52]

I wasn't going to post it but...... I have left my GPS in miles so that I can use it for mph when in the USofA This was done as a SS1600 The GPS is a Garmin 2610

[Davo]

Which shows why many of us choose to run a GPS, its the stats that I like. I use all mine and enter them into a spreadsheet in excel. I know what I am capable of and what I needed to do to get those figures. The actual voice directions are a good thing but its the page I and others have posted that really gets me going.

Soooo a basic older Garmin or anything like that will do the job, even a bi-cycle computer thingo will do. It take s alot of pressure off you when you know for sure what rate you are holding.

Also as Blackvalk says, I am only interested in the Overall Average Speed and Total Time. Get the overall avg right and the rest just happens.

Edited for one more point.
The Garmins allow you to alter the fields showing on the page in my post above. Its a personal thing but after many rides I have come to the ones shown on mine. I do not need to know the time of day (my bike has a clock) top speed, elevation etc.
I do need to show most of what I have and in that order, vertical center line is the important stuff.

[With_him]

These are great.  Thanks for the input, keep it coming.

[Tony T]

I agree with everyone above; nice to have but not an essential piece of equipment.

Mine is mainly used just like everyone stated, for the overall moving average. But instead of looking at the total distance traveled I look at the distance to final destination. That way I can better judge if I’m up to finishing the ride or if I need a hotel / motel for the night. That also enables me to do the math in me head to double check the reading I’m getting and make a guess to my TOT. (Time-over-target.)

[With_him]

So do most of you not really use it for navigation purposes?  Is sounds like as some have described, it is more of a hyper-accurate speedo for distance.

[Mr Sunshine]

So do most of you not really use it for navigation purposes?  Is sounds like as some have described, it is more of a hyper-accurate speedo for distance.

Well when you need to turn the GPS will popup and let you know that your turn is coming up.  So the distance to the next way point is more important to me.

But my GPS is a Garmin V.  I really need to suck it up and get the GPS I want (one of the 27xx models with XM radio [but after hearing XM is starting to suck I'm thinking um...Siruis])

[Tony T]

So do most of you not really use it for navigation purposes?  Is sounds like as some have described, it is more of a hyper-accurate speedo for distance.

Only when I’m lost.

On most rides I have my route written down on a piece of paper and placed in the map pocket crammed in the top half. That will enable me to see and read a paper map to follow along. The GPS doesn’t always give me the route I want to take so I’ll tend to use my own directions instead.

[Davo]

We are all familiar with the little voice that says "off route, recalcuating"

[Rocket_Cowboy]

So do most of you not really use it for navigation purposes?  Is sounds like as some have described, it is more of a hyper-accurate speedo for distance.

Like I said ... depends on the ride. If I'm out doing a timed/mileage ride, aka SS1K, BBG, Coast-to-Coast ... I'm typically not using it for nav purposes, but rather tracking time and calculating overall average speed and moving average speed. For rally purposes, I'm using it to navigate from one bonus or checkpoint location to the next.

[Hulked Up]

Interesting discussion.  I'm looking to get a GPS in the coming year.  I've done a couple of IBA rides and a rally, but could have really benefited from the GPS.  On paper, I would do rough computations of a time I should arrive at a specific destination and that's helpful for knowing if I'm on schedule or not, but the overall average speed would be better.  

The GPS would have also helped me avoid getting lost in Boston and could have bumped me up a place or two in the rally standings.

[Vic Ape]

I don't have a GPS yet and I have done a few IBA rides and done quite well in a few rallys (I won the sport-touring class in the MN1000 last summer). For me, at least for the rallies, my laptop is much more critical. I plan my route on the laptop, then write each bonus location on a notebook (1 per page) then simply flip the page to go to the next. I keep the notebook in the map pocket of my tankbag. I would still love to get a GPS, but it is more of a want than a need.

Lee

[goto]

Since my lovely wife   got me one for Christmas, I am gonna give it a go.  I have used MS streets and trips since 2003, but between it not knowing that some rodes are restricted to Park Vehicles only (in Zion) and having the printed pages fly outta my tank bag (the clear part on the top with velcro closure).... I never print out enough details which has been fine until this last summers trip to Crater Lake.  I added about 150 extra miles in 24 hours to my trip, and only 40 of them were any fun at all.

[Elseanno]

So do most of you not really use it for navigation purposes?  Is sounds like as some have described, it is more of a hyper-accurate speedo for distance.

Just doing the 1K in 24 is pretty easy with a plain old map.

GPS makes a world of difference when doing rallys. It's a whole other ball of wax. Imagine trying to find oddball places and things all over the countryside while still trying to hit check points during specific time windows... Doing in excess of 1K in 24 while riding in any/every direction in search of points. GPS makes that a lot more doable. I still like a large paper map to see the whole area though. (typically, a rally will be at least most of one state, and it's not uncommon that they are in two or three states. )

Elseanno

[TimothyPilgrim]

I have a Garmin eTrex Legend which is a little older now, but still very useful. With full mapping and statistical capabilities, it's aided me on many a trip (car, bike and plane). One of the best features it has is the backlight. On a trip down south one day I arrived after dark in a land I'd never been before. Although I always carry an assortment of maps, I couldn't read them on the highway at night since I've got no lighting. Well, I did stop near an overpass once under a streetlamp. The backlight on my GPS was indispensable in bringing me to my final destination. I'd merely plotted the end point before I left in the morning and said "go to" that point. No matter which route I chose along the way (dictated by maps and what locals suggested I do), the GPS was what got me there in the end, just in time to share a cold one with my friends.

Tim

[Cal24Master]

From personal experiances in the past....  I would certainly NOT post any information like GPS screen shots on public internet forum.  Anyone here have any idea who is out there looking at these posts?  The internet is not secure.  If there is anyone out there you would NOT like seeing information like that, I would not put it up there.

[Davo]

In answer to that have you any idea how easy it is to turn your gps off, have a nice sleep and then turn it back on to complete the ride  

You get the same result, now thats what I could have done ossipher...... or not, want to try and prove it.

[With_him]

I just bet those that posted are a wiz with photoshop or other such items.  I mean some of the posts may show that the average speed it over the local limit, but being that we are all well adjusted adults I am sure that no-one on this board would willfully exceed the limit.

We may doctor up some images to make it look like we did for cool points but we would never actually exceed the posted limit.  

[Davo]

Oh heaven forbid, you are absolutely correct. photoshop, yeah thats what we did alrighty  

[basco]

A GPS is not a requirement but it helps.  I could not imagine using a paper map on a IB but if your slabbing it on a freeway, you don't need it. If you are mixing a 2 lane road in the trip and you have not familiar with the road then I would say its almost an requirement

[Bounce]

A little clarification of terminology: "Average Moving Speed", and "Overall Average Speed" are not the same. "Overall average Speed" includes non-moving time, and is critical to the math requiring a certain average speed over some number of hours to successfully complete a longer ride. Certain older GPS units are only capable of doing an average of your moving speed, while other "slightly newer" units give the needed "overall average speed". Many of us still use older technology units, like a Garmin III Plus (Average Speed) and Garmin GPS-V (Overall Average Speed)  units which serve our individual requirements well enough.

Even really "old tech" Garmins like the original Street Pilot (monochrome) do both the moving and overall average speeds (and a lot more). Even when a route isn't complex (like a rally) the stat display is very useful for getting a better swag on ETAs, etc.  Not a "requirement" since many winners of the IBR have, and continue to win with just paper maps and determination.

[Michael J]

Echoing what has gone before - invaluable on rallies to see how you're doing as to getting back to the finish before the clock stops. I also program in the bonus locations and usually select a new destination after each location rather than do a complete route.

On non-IBA rides, it's a great way to collect mountain passes, the location of photos and other spots that I want to remember. I have just started collecting tracks and uploading them into Google Earth - I can now easily re-ride my favorites  

Great toy!

[BlaSTr]

I carried a Garmin 276C GPS on my baby-step SS1K primarily to give me a better gauge of mileage (my ST1300A speedo and odo are off) traveled, average speed, stop times, and a record of my route. I didn't need it but it was nice to punch in unplanned stops (like 53F weather 2 hours in when the start temp was a delightful 70F).

BlaSTr

[blakebird]

I'm a map guy. I spend a fair amount of time using them when picking a route, and enjoy referring to them while I'm on the road. I get a mental image of the overall picture and it's segments, etc.
By the time I'm on the road, I usually can find stuff from memory pretty well. Not many times I've wished I had GPS to get me unlost.
Sometimes finding the right place to fold one is the worst part of using a paper map.


I'm also a huge gadget guy, so I'm surprised that bug hasn't sunk it's teeth in yet.

I suspect it's the same "fear" of constantly updating technology reducing my superbly researched buying decision to ashes.... that kept me from upgrading our old Win98 POS until 6 mos ago.

[helodoc]

I use a Garmin 2730. Valuable tool. It can find a gas station, motel, food anywhere along your route. It has XM and MP3 to help with those boring bits. When riding distance events it is amazing at finding those obscure bonus locations. Though you do have to think beyond the GPS. It can get confused and direct you in circles, and sometimes the accuracy of the speedo is suspect. Last year on the Northwest Passage Rally, the GPS claimed my top speed was 298MPH. I reset the thing and after the next leg it said my top speed was 2100mph. I don't remember breaking MACH, but maybe the guys behind me might have felt the shock wave.

[jwhite518]

As the others have said, the GPS is never "necessary" but the glorified speedo is very helpful for a BBG. For a 1K it's just a helpful toy.

One thing I like about the GPS is how it helps to "plan the ride, ride the plan." Before you set out on your ride, you can plot out every turn and every gas stop, making sure you have one on the proper side of the highway, has a good onramp, it's open 7/24, has PAP, etc. Then on ride day you just execute. For me it adds to the feeling of accomplishment. Not only did I meet the requirements of the IBA ride, I also planned a good plan and managed to follow it.

[Slonishku]

Another great benefit, to me, is reassurance during rallies. The Cal 24 Rally Bastard has a habit of placing you squarely in the middle of BFE in the middle of the night on highways with no signage whatsoever. Right at about that time when the voices in your head would almost have succeeded in convincing you that the best thing to do would be to backtrack 45 miles just to be sure that this is the correct road. With the GPS in front of you, you have a nice warm glow of reassurance. (a la THey Might Be Giants "Birdhouse in Your Soul").

I have a 2610. It has numerous obvious shortcomings, but I like having it along.