ZZR1200 Advice?

[ohpossum]

I apologize if this ends up as a double post, first try barfed while trying to attach photos:

First post in a while,
I may have an opportunity to trade for an '04 Kawasaki ZZR1200 with low miles. I didn't know they existed until I saw the ad, but have been very impressed with the reading I have been doing.

I have had 3 Goldwings, a Benelli 650, and XJ650J and currently have Honda Shadow ACE Tourer. I've only had the ACE for about 3 months and have been able to ride about 1500 miles since purchase. I really like the bike, it's in great condition and capable of what I require, low-maintenance, dependable two-up touring. But I have noticed my lower back bothering me more while riding it, most likely due to the cruiser riding position and my poor posture habits.

I'm 6ft tall and 250lbs, wife is 5'7" and much less.

How is the ZZR for two-up, 200 mile or more days? Passenger comfort being very high on the list! She's already not fond of the "sportbike" appearance, though I'm doing my best to explain the differences.

How is fuel economy? This bike is stock as far as I can tell.

There is no luggage on this one, and I won't have a lot to spend if I can make this happen. I would most lkely start with a trunk w/backrest for the passenger's ease of mind. At the very least, a backrest (is there a backrest only option, somewhere).
Also recommendations for soft side-luggage and stays.

FYI, I've never been a very aggressive rider, so "twistability" is no a big issue. I do like the idea of having power readily available and easily moderated. Tire recommendations biased (no pun intended) toward mileage would be appreciated, as well. This one is probably still riding on it's factory issued tires and I'm sure I'll be in trouble as soon as it needs reshod ( I'm having a new front installed in the next week or two on the ACE, to the tune of about $200.00USD, Dunlop D206 is the only available type in stock sizing.)

Also if you or someone you know might be interested in the ACE, I will attept to post a pic or two, less pinstriping and luggage rack.
The ACE is a 2000 model with less than 8,000 miles and I would like to get or trade even for $5700.00 value.

Thanks!
'oh

[bahwolf]

Hey there, Ohpossum. I've logged 35,000 miles on my ZZR since I bought it new in 2003. Would probably be twice that, but I have other bikes in the stable. Only problem to date was with a broken speedo cable. Fixed it myself for 18 bucks.

Stock seat is the pits for two up. I rarely have a passenger, so it's never been an issue for me. The few times I have had a passenger for short distances, I've found them sliding forward into my back because of the slope of the seat. Most riders complain about the stock seat, too. It doesn't bother me. My longest day ever on the ZZR stands at 908 miles. That was all interstate and I was hauling ass. I've done 700 mile days at a more relaxed pace on secondary roads. 500-600 miles is more realistic, though. You'll want Genmar bar risers to help get some weight off your wrists, especially if you're not used to that type of riding position. Soft luggage mounts up easily with the exhaust down low and out of the way. (I've got Givi hard sidecases.)

She averages a pretty steady 42 mpg on gas. ON a trip with comingled twisties taken at ridiculous speeds and lively rpms and leisurely cruising (as leisurely as it gets on a ZZR1200 anyway), I average right around 39 mpg for the whole trip. I've shimmed my carb needs -- otherwise it's stock.

Avon Storms are the ticket for tires -- 6-8,000 out of the rear depending on your riding style.

What'd I miss?

There are numerous ZZR ride reports on my website, http://bahwolf.com. And, finally, http://www.zzrbikes.com is your best resource for ZZR info.

Edited to add a couple pics from last year's 5,000 miler from OKC to Banff:

[drsmig]

Bahwolf pretty much has it covered.  I put on 35000 miles on my 02 with nary a problem.  I loved it and only traded it because I found a buyer and went with a new zx14.  I did lots of two up touring on the zzr.  I had a corbin saddle with a back rest on mine.  I also had the givi saddlebags (no trunk).  I did lots of long distance tourng logging as many as 6000 miles in 13 days a couple of times and doing a 24 hour endurance rally logging in over 1300 miles in 24 hours of pouring rain.  The zzr handles it all easily.  I can highly recommend it from personal experience.  It isn't a gold wing or even an FJR for comfort though.  It is a SPORT touring bike with the sport being in capital letters.  There are a lot of aftermarket bits and pieces for it and it is a lot of fun to ride.  I ran Metzler Z6's on mine and liked them a lot.  I don't think there are many bikes out there that will offer you as much fun and value for your money.  Check out zzrbikes.com as noted above for lots more information.

[Flyer]

Those two posts have you covered.  
The ZZ-R1200 is the best kept secret in Sport-touring.
C'mon over to zzrbikes.com and we'll convince ya!

[PhilBiker]

It's a great bike.  For long mileage tires I recommend the Metzeler ME880 "Marathon" model.  I have been extremely happy with them on my high mileage GPz1100.

[1KPerDay]

Michelin Pilot roads are also very good mileage wise. You won't have to worry about having lots of easily modulated power available.
Bar risers, a good seat, fork brace and a good rear shock are popular mods, though many love the Zed stock.

[Vladimir]

The Cortech sport saddlebags work well on the ZZR for soft bags.  You wouldn't be able to run the tail bag with a passenger obviously.  The straps for the saddlebags will route under the seat, I just don't normally bother.

I'll second the Avon Storms as a good tire choice, I'm running a set now and have been very happy.  I ran Diablo Stradas prior to that and they were fine, but didn't wear quite as well.

I've got Genmar risers on mine ZZR (an '05) and heartily recommend them if you want a little more upright posture. It's an easy upgrade, all of the factory cabling works fine so it's just a couple of bolts and you're done.

I've gotten used to the stock seat but that's the first thing most people upgrade.

The ZZR isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I love mine to death. It's not as refined and doesn't have the bells and whistles of other touring bikes, but it's very good at the sport side of the equation and decent enough at the touring part with a few tweaks to customize it to your own tastes.

[2wTraveler]

A buddy of mine rode one for a couple of years and really liked it...

[ohpossum]

Thanks to everyone for the input. You all affirm what I've been thinking.

I'm hoping for some bonus money from work to arrive in time and I may be able to make the trade with a little "mad" money left over.

bahwolf, there is some interseting reading on your well-maintained site.
Also I was born just on the edge of OKC in Del City. We lived there off and on several times as my father taught at the FAA Academy there. Been several years since I was in OKC. I do like the Eufala (sp) and the Arbuckle Mtn. areas, though not OKC so much. The last time there, we lived near Wheatland at South Council and 59th.
We do take 69 South frequently when trying to make time traveling to Texas, but  prefer to go through the Ozarks and Little Rock route for the scenery.

Thanks, again
'oh

[ZZR Rob]

Those two posts have you covered.  
The ZZ-R1200 is the best kept secret in Sport-touring.
C'mon over to zzrbikes.com and we'll convince ya!

Ditto, to bad they don't make it anymore

[bahwolf]

bahwolf, there is some interseting reading on your well-maintained site.
Also I was born just on the edge of OKC in Del City. We lived there off and on several times as my father taught at the FAA Academy there. Been several years since I was in OKC. I do like the Eufala (sp) and the Arbuckle Mtn. areas, though not OKC so much. The last time there, we lived near Wheatland at South Council and 59th.
We do take 69 South frequently when trying to make time traveling to Texas, but  prefer to go through the Ozarks and Little Rock route for the scenery.

Thanks for the compliments on the website. It's primarily for fans of my fiction -- leastwise for those that haven't given up on me entirely, since I've done no writing in the last 3 or 4 years other than my moto adventure blog stuff and a half dozen or so articles for RIDE OKLAHOMA magazine. As for Oklahoma, what can I say? It's a convenient base from which to stage my riding. 

You won't regret getting the ZZR, but keep in mind a couple things. First, it's not an FJR or ST and doesn't pretend to be. With 145 or so rwhp (stock), it'll blow everything short of a ZX-14 (its replacement), a 'Busa, or a liter bike off the road (though to be honest, I feel safer at 150 mph on my ZZR than I do my CBR1000RR). It's heavy. It's not fuel injected (which is only a problem when it's really cold because the bike is VERY prone to carb icing issues). And it does tend to be a bit buzzy (the risers help a lot). Suspension is ... well, adequate. Brakes are ... well, adequate (you'll notice in my photo, I've upgraded).

Despite its modest shortcomings, I can't think of anyone who has owned a ZZR and not loved it. Every time I think about trading mine in on something else, I just can't bring myself to part with it.

If I can answer any other questions, just give me a shout.

[endo]

I'm sure you'll love the bike.  I sure love mine!  My wife is encouraging me to get the Concours 1400, but I just can't bring myself to let loose of the ZZR  

[zzr pilot]

My avatar phot shows mine.

I love the bike.  I have double gen-mars, throttlemeister (soon to be cruise), Givi  E-41's on SWMotech quick detach racks (www.twistedthrottle.com), Corbin gunfighter and lady seat with backrest, etc.

The bike has run flawless in the past year and a half I have owned it.  I have about 20K miles on it in that time.  I don't have any problem with the stock suspension, but then I wouldn't know the difference.  I tend to be fairly aggressive and have been known to touch down a hard bag while zipping the twisties.

I use Avon Storm STs for tire, EBC brake pads and Rotella synthetic oil.  She has never disappointed me and every time I think of trading her in for a newer model, I just can't do it.  I will most like add to the stable than replace her when the time comes.

You have to check out www.zzrbikes.com for information.  Great groupd of people and very knowledgeable about this awesome bike!!

[droptine]

Most def. agree with previous post. The bike is sweet. I have a 04 I picked up last year after looking around awhile. I was out of riding for quite afew years while raising the family. The oldest is off in the military, a senior at home and two not much younger. The day I rode it home I thought why did I wait so long. I really like the sportiness (get up and gone). I have added a tank bag and will be looking at soft bags in the morn. at the cycle show, just like most a little at a time. I to am looking for tires, Quick question is it nessesary for the valve adjustment a 7500 and does the passengers use the backrests availible out there or is it a rarely used addon. Go for it on the ZZR, not a commom bike and it can run with pretty much anything out there. Good insurence rates as well.

Later, Mike  

[MarcS]

My avatar phot shows mine.

I love the bike.  I have double gen-mars, throttlemeister (soon to be cruise), Givi  E-41's on SWMotech quick detach racks (www.twistedthrottle.com), Corbin gunfighter and lady seat with backrest, etc.

A couple of weeks before I bought my ZX14, I tried to buy a ZZR1200, with a check in hand, only to arrive at the seller's house as someone else was loading it into a pickup truck. I would have still been looking for/trying to buy a ZZR1200 (or, admittedly, a Blackbird) except that I found a very good deal on a ZX14.

I think used they are the best value out there for a seasoned sport-tourer.

The Concours 14 is great too -- my dad has one and I have put a few miles on it. It's basically exactly what you'd expect of the child whose mother is the Conc1k and the father the ZX14.

[omsbitaro]

It is powerful from low rpm and fast. I replaced it with Honda ST1300. I miss power of ZZR. Longest distance a day I did was 550 miles, but usually it caused pain in my buttock after 200 miles. As somebody said, in cooler weather carb icing occurs. I once dropped mine because of it. In winter I always put HEET in gas tank for every fill up.

[Scrogg]

I'll add another vote for it. I found a good deal on an 03 with low miles (5k). It was my second bike and my first sport/sport-touring bike. I doubled it's mileage from the previous 4 years in about 2 months  

Everything to say about it has already been said, you will be hard pressed to find a better value for your sport-touring $$

[zzr pilot]

.... Quick question is it nessesary for the valve adjustment a 7500 and does the passengers use the backrests availible out there or is it a rarely used addon.

My wife likes the backrest and if you are going to be doing long distances, it makes a good strap down spot for tail bags or tent rolls.

Many people have the valves checked at 7500 mile service, while others do not.  I know one owner that put 25K miles on his before checking his valves and they were all still within spec.  I guess it depends on you...

[birdrunner]

plan on upgrading the seat for 2-up.  A tail trunk (eg GIVI) make an excellent back rest for the wife plus it's sooooo handy for stuffing things.

The bike is very similar to my Blackbird, which I've taken my wife for tens of thousands of KM's of trips.

I wouldn't hesitate to get the ZZR or another Blackbird in an instant.  They're the best SPORT-touring bargains out there.    (Naturally I'd give the nod to the Honda first for refinement/engine, but the ZZR gets the nod for suspension).

[zzr pilot]

(Naturally I'd give the nod to the Honda first for refinement/engine, but the ZZR gets the nod for suspension).

The ZZR engine is much stronger than the 'bird.  And besides, with the 'bird you have to deal with those annoying liked brakes.

*The above statment is biased as I truly luv my Zed!!!

[Heath3n]

The ZZR engine is much stronger than the 'bird.  And besides, with the 'bird you have to deal with those annoying liked brakes.
*The above statment is biased as I truly luv my Zed!!!

I agree with the Zed having the stronger engine...I did like the linked brakes of the XX I owned though.

[birdrunner]

The ZZR engine is much stronger than the 'bird.  And besides, with the 'bird you have to deal with those annoying liked brakes.

*The above statment is biased as I truly luv my Zed!!!

The two engines are almost the same HP,  the ZZ's engine only seems to make more HP because it shakes like a cement mixer.  

Of course if you're only riding it to the bar, you might not notice

[Heath3n]

The two engines are almost the same HP,  the ZZ's engine only seems to make more HP because it shakes like a cement mixer.  
Of course if you're only riding it to the bar, you might not notice

And jealousy rears it's ugly head!  

I'll just direct you here:
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/honda-cbr1100xx-vs-kawasaki-zzr1200-15400.html

[droptine]

I rode both the Honda and Kawi on the same day one after the other when I was looking to buy. I remember the first thing I said when I got back to the dealer. I told him that the ZZR-1200 would walk away from the Honda. It's like any thing else, solely up to the one with cash in hand. I am not biases by any means but I was sold on the Kawi. Just ride is what it boils down to (safely).

[1KPerDay]

I've ridden them (XX and ZZR) back to back and the ZZR has noticeably more low and mid-range, though the XX is smoother. Top end... meh... both are shoulder-socket-pullers.

I feel the XX handles better, at least the one I rode.

[birdrunner]

The ZZR was developed to compete with the XX.  Kawi put the Honda in their sights when they developed it.   I guess imitation is the sincerest for of flattery.



FWIW,  When I got my XX, I was also considering a ZZR.   The Honda came in the color I liked.  

[dalan]

ZZR1200, hell yeah!

Hard luggage, custom seat, and you're good to go.



That is all.  

[ohpossum]

Hey,

Thanks again for all the posts! Unfortunately, I won't be able to afford the extra $2,000.00 at this time.

However, when I dropped the ACE T off to have the front tire replaced, there was a "new" bike on display outside.

A 1996 Triumph Trophy 1200, dark blue, side cases, 45,xxx miles. It was traded in by a passer-through experiencing charging troubles.

Their asking price is $3,995.00. One of the managers is supposed to let me know how they would trade. I think the Shadow is worth more and hopefully can get them to include 2 new tires, new battery, and maybe a top case. It also has a Corbin seat.

Keeping my fingers crossed, my wife didn't seem too opposed to the thought of it, I showed her a picture of one on the 'net.

Waiting for better weather,

oh'

[1KPerDay]

You can get a ZZR1200 for 4 grand if you look around.

[ohpossum]

I don't doubt I can locate a deal somewhere. However, I pretty much have to stay in the local (25-75 miles) area.  This in turn has more bearing on what are deals or not, for me, anyway.

If money were not an issue, I would jump all over this ZZR, as it appears that it's likely still on it's original tires and extremely well taken care of.

The Trophy, though a bit higher in mileage than I would like, is definitely on my wish list. And it was hard to believe it was there when I rode in the other evening.

Thanks again,

oh'

[emillard]

I've ridden them (XX and ZZR) back to back and the ZZR has noticeably more low and mid-range, though the XX is smoother. Top end... meh... both are shoulder-socket-pullers.

I feel the XX handles better, at least the one I rode.

What he said.  

I have both.  The ZZR is a torque monster no doubt and has much better wind protection for longer rides.  However, the XX is 50lbs lighter, handles better, and is smooth as glass.  

[Heath3n]

What he said.  

I have both.  The ZZR is a torque monster no doubt and has much better wind protection for longer rides.  However, the XX is 50lbs lighter, handles better, and is smooth as glass.  

Just my .02 cents. I have owned both bikes as well and I feel that the ZZR handles noticably better than the XX did. I will agree the XX was smoother and less buzzy though. But I definitely prefer my Zed to the bird I had. The Zed's also more comfy IMO. You really can't go wrong with either of them though.  

[Fast Blue]

I've had my ZZR since june 03
 adjusted the pilot screws - added Holeshots and a K&N
New front sprocket - rear down two teeth to a 42 and a chain.
It has approx 63,000 km
I went on an epic western journey last year  19 days 6,400 miles - the bike ran flawlessly. - And yes I still ride on the stock seat - I like it - the warden sometimes not so much after a couple of hours. I will be looking into making some changes on that.

This bike has been bullet proof - very pleased that I own one - the only one around for miles and miles.

[atadaskew]

The ZZR was developed to compete with the XX.  Kawi put the Honda in their sights when they developed it.   I guess imitation is the sincerest for of flattery.

The XX was developed to compete with the ZX11. Honda put the Kawi in their sights when they developed it.  I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[1KPerDay]

  PWN3D

[BradleyRas]

Great choice in a super sport tourer. My Zed has 45000 miles on the clock, my friend Tony has 65000 with nary a problem.

I have nothing else to add that hasn't already been said.  

[windsorgreen1]

Great choice in a super sport tourer. My Zed has 45000 miles on the clock, my friend Tony has 65000 with nary a problem.

I have nothing else to add that hasn't already been said.  

Had an 04 that I bought in new June of 05. I put six k on it in 3.5 months & then went over the handlebars cuz in essence I rode while very tired. I miss it.