DRZ400?

[DNA]

As I sit in the office enjoying my 9.5 hours of daylight, dreaming of a new bike is something to keep me sane.

I have the ST/GT thing covered with the Sprint.  It has almost 30K miles in 2.5 years so it gets used - but no a whole lot.  I have been using it mostly for rallies and LD stuff.  With a new baby due any day, 2 things are going to be in short supply: Money and time.  Spending 6-10 hours on the bike every weekend is out - as is buying a new FJR.  So I keep asking myself, "Self, how can we have some fun - commute 45 miles on traffic congested 2 lane back roads, get in the dirt, and basically compress 10 hours of giggles in the twisties into morning commute and the occasional 3 hour Gilligan?"

I rode a KTM 450 something this year at Hatfield's and McCoys, and had 3 fantastic days.  Dirk bikes rock!  But the need to trailer several hours is a deal killer.  The SuperMotard thing looks like a blast, but I no practical experience.  Everyone else seems to like the KLR, but it seems too big and heavy to by good on dirt, and too small to tour in comfort.

What specifically am I looking for?
1) Must be fun!
2) I want to loft the front end at will, and generally be a hooligan.
3) Must have enough travel and be light enough to be decent on dirt roads, and possible easy single track.
4) Must be capable of sustained 75 MPH.  It will see highways ~1 hour max not for 10 hours (The ST will work on that).  100 MPH+ not necessary.
5) I need to carry a laptop/ briefcase, so some type bag or case is desired.
6) It should have good (or upgradeable) lights as I ride home int he dark often  
7) Easy maintenance - I am not a master wrench - this is well known.

Other bikes I have considered include the F650 Dakar, and the KTM640.  Any idea about the DR650?

Specific questions about the DRZ:Any idea of ballpark pricing on a lightly used bike? Are accessories widley available?  Are there any lightly used DRZ's or do they all get destroyed?  Is the 2 tire set thing good or more of a gimmick?  How bad would an hour on the highway be?


I look forward to comments about this bike and any others I might have missed.  I need to get educated about the whole DS thing.

[garry]

I don't think the DRZ400 is for you. I had one last year and put about $1000 in mods to it. Had it nicely set up, then sold it in a fit of stupidity. Here's why I think you need to look elsewhere:

- Not much power. With stock gearing, you can loft it in first, and second if you try, but it's not a wheelie king stock.

- If you drop the gearing for dirt use, wheelies are easy, but you'll be screaming on the highway

- An indicated 75 is about as much as it's comfy with. I put in long days (250-300 miles) on it and that's about all it's comfy with IMO. I did see 90+ indicated once when wringing its neck.

- It's a dirt bike, so it's kinda snakey/wiggly at speed, in cross winds and on the highway (turbulence from other vehicles)

- It's only a 5 speed. An overdrive 6th gear for highway use would be great.

- Tires are the limiting factor for off-road use. If you use 50/50 tires, they suck off-road if it's muddy or loose. DOT knobbies are great for the dirt, but aren't any fun on the street.

- Pro Moto Billet makes a nice rack. I'm sure you can bodge some sort of top-case on there if needed.

I'm thinking you're more of a 650 dual-sport customer. KLR is most street oriented, Honda the most dirt (of the Jap bikes) with the DR650 in the middle. Personally, I'm lusting after the KTM 525 EXC right now.

www.ThumperTalk.com has an awesome DRZ400 forum.

[Johnny Monsoon]

If you're wanting a light bike, aditch the idea of the BMW immediately; it is heavier and less dirt worthy than the KLR.

The DR650 may be an option for you; maybe the best option, however there are others:

The TE-610 will be lighter than the KLR (and just a tad lighter, I believe) than the DR650, but far better equipped for dirt, and sports a sixth gear for highway.

My pick would be the KLX250S.  While it isn't built to be a highway tourer, I have spent 2 hours straight in the (comfortable) saddle with the throttle well opened; and 75 (indicated) was no problem at all for my 170lb 5'11" self.  You endure any single on the highway to get to the dirt; that's just the facts of life.  It does just fine though; but tops out at  95mph (indicated) on flat roads with no headwind.  Legal speeds are easily attainable, and the offroad prowess of this bike is unreal.  For the money, I don't believe there's a finer bike that'll allow you to actually catch serious air, traverse mega nasty trails, and still allow you to run up and down the highway.  You can also punch out the engine with factory bits to 330cc.

Having owned (and adored) a KLR650, I would have no reservations about getting a KLX250S as a replacement.  I'd want to upgrade the tank to a larger unit, and soft luggage can be strapped on anything.

If you're looking primarily at multi-surface grin factor, the KLX250S is nearly impossible to beat.  It contains some really great offroad bits and comes in a very affordable package.

[DNA]

Thanks guys - keep in coming.  More bikes to look into.  The KLX looks interesting.  I see a dirt bike coming soon.
Pardon my ignorance - but would a 250 have the grunt to loft my 225lb?  I really doubt I will be on the highway much.  

[hig4s]

Think  KTM 525 EXC street legal!!!  

[bluepoof]

If you're wanting a light bike, aditch the idea of the BMW immediately; it is heavier and less dirt worthy than the KLR.

I do believe the latter is a matter of opinion.  

Honestly, even though the F650GS is 20 lbs heavier than the KLR, the gas tank is under the seat, which greatly lowers the center of gravity.  I've never ridden a KLR (stupid tall bikes) but I've found the F650GS to be very capable on the dirt.  Just my opinion.

I'm not seeing why a DRZ400 would be a bad choice for DNA.    I'd agree with the assessment of a 650cc if he were doing more highway, but he said that he's not.  It seems like a DRZ400 would actually work very well.  

[Johnny Monsoon]

I do believe the latter is a matter of opinion.  

Honestly, even though the F650GS is 20 lbs heavier than the KLR, the gas tank is under the seat, which greatly lowers the center of gravity.  I've never ridden a KLR (stupid tall bikes) but I've found the F650GS to be very capable on the dirt.  Just my opinion.

I'm not seeing why a DRZ400 would be a bad choice for DNA.    I'd agree with the assessment of a 650cc if he were doing more highway, but he said that he's not.  It seems like a DRZ400 would actually work very well.  

I don't know what it is on the BMW that is heavy and high, but the COG is actually higher on the GS than the KLR.  The KLR is easier to handle offroad by a good bit.

The DRz400 is a decent bike, but it won't do highway any better than the KLX, and doesn't have nearly the offroadability, so for a few less bucks, you get a better dirt bike with a more comfortable seat and way better suspension.  The KLX is also a 6 speed (forgot to mention that earlier).

And, DNA, the KLX will indeed haul your butt around.  My bud is 6'4" and about (if not slightly more) than your weight.  He gets around just fine on it.

[cosmoose]

Think  KTM 525 EXC street legal!!!  

Do, actually.  That's the route my dad took.  Downsides include high initial cost, low oil capacity (frequent changes) and no fan on the radiator, which means it'll overheat if you're slow.  Also, he decided to install a keyed ignition, since it only came with a button.  

But, it's really light (roughly 40 pounds better than the DRZ400S), has great suspension, a heck of a motor and lots of dirt cred.  

A lot depends on what state you're in.  Dad just barely got the KTM made legal here in WI.  In Michigan, anything with a mirror, headlight and a horn could get a plate.  

All that said, I've toughed through interstate runs on 250s (and one 200), learned to ride on the KLR650, and currently have a DRZ400.  It's all about compromise.  Figure out not only what kind of riding you're going to do, but what kind of riding you want your bike to be good at.  I spend more time on the road than in the dirt, but when it gets muddy, I want a machine that'll handle well, and one I can pick up again and again.  The DRZis almost too big for hard-core dirt riding, but does easier trails comfortably and has enough motor that I'm not flaying it on my commute.  If I did a touch less dirt, I'd have a 650, but if there were trails just a little closer, I'd be on a 250.  

It took me 4 bikes to figure that out.  Hope you find the one that fits you sooner.  

Dave

[garry]

A lot depends on what state you're in.  Dad just barely got the KTM made legal here in WI.  In Michigan, anything with a mirror, headlight and a horn could get a plate.  

I think all the 2007 EXC models (at least the 450 and 525) are DOT legal in all 50 states. Note the addition of turn signals and mirrors on the KTM site.

[Johnny Monsoon]

I think all the 2007 EXC models (at least the 450 and 525) are DOT legal in all 50 states. Note the addition of turn signals and mirrors on the KTM site.

I believe you are most correct.

[bluesurf]

From the requirements listing then it seems like you want dirt bike fun (loft at will, big suspension, etc.) but won't be using it much on the trails, at least initially.  You also want the ability to cover some highway mileage, likely with minimal maintenance as those hours/miles add up.

I've seen people toss suspension, etc., upgraded KLR's through things that they probably shouldn't, and they are also very capable and comfortable of living off of for months at a time...plenty of stories out there; check out http://advrider.com.  However, the KLR isn't a hooligan machine by any stretch.

As others have pointed out, the DR-Z needs a few mods to make it a real hoolie bike and even then is slightly constrained on the highway side.  Personally, I've done thousands of mixed dirt, highway and nasty trails on one, and it's a fine bike.  The FCR carb from an E or other compatible model is the best mod to feed that engine and get overall results.  Well-kitted used models (look for '02+ to take advantage of the upgraded forks) can regularly be had for $4-4.5K.

You mentioned not really intending to put much dirt time down, but I'll wager that's going to change, and would place a bet towards a bike that can handle the highway and be ready for more than light easy trails once in a while.

I'm voting for either a KTM640 or a Honda XR650L.  Plenty of power throughout the range, luggage capability, can easily be ridden for an hour or three at a time on the highway and then handle almost everything off-road.

[DNA]

I'm voting for either a KTM640 or a Honda XR650L. Plenty of power throughout the range, luggage capability, can easily be ridden for an hour or three at a time on the highway and then handle almost everything off-road.

I think you hit it.  
KTM 640 seems to be the lust object of the season.
I had heard maintenance was high though.  Any idea if this is true - relative to the others?

[R.Markus]

I think you hit it.  
KTM 640 seems to be the lust object of the season.
I had heard maintenance was high though.  Any idea if this is true - relative to the others?

Oil changes and valve adjustments every 3000 miles.

The oil change is actually more time consuming than the valve adjustment. It has one external oil filter, one internal oil filter, two drain plugs under the engine (one with a screen and the other with a magnet), and one drain plug on the frame under the external oil filter. You have to put oil in the case and then more in the frame near the steering head, then the frame needs to be bled after the oil change.

The bike vibrates a lot so you have to constantly check hoses and wiring to make sure they aren't rubbing through...in nearly 9000 miles on mine nothing has yet, but there are a couple hoses I'm going to replace soon.

[DNA]

Oil changes and valve adjustments every 3000 miles.

The oil change is actually more time consuming than the valve adjustment. It has one external oil filter, one internal oil filter, two drain plugs under the engine (one with a screen and the other with a magnet), and one drain plug on the frame under the external oil filter. You have to put oil in the case and then more in the frame near the steering head, then the frame needs to be bled after the oil change.

The bike vibrates a lot so you have to constantly check hoses and wiring to make sure they aren't rubbing through...in nearly 9000 miles on mine nothing has yet, but there are a couple hoses I'm going to replace soon.

   That design sounds completly stupid.  On my triumph I'd be doing that every 4-6 weeks in the summer.
Is it worth it?  
Nice bike - I really like the Black ones...

[vitaminC]

   That design sounds completly stupid.  On my triumph I'd be doing that every 4-6 weeks in the summer.
Is it worth it?  
Nice bike - I really like the Black ones...

How tall are you? And seriously, that oil change is a real PITA. There's a great KTM thread pinned in the thumper section at advrider, check it out.

[R.Markus]

   That design sounds completly stupid.  On my triumph I'd be doing that every 4-6 weeks in the summer.
Is it worth it?  
Nice bike - I really like the Black ones...

Actually it is a good design, just complicated. The bike wasn't designed for easy riding and it's engineering seems a bit overkill if you aren't using it for it's intended purposes. Desert racing is what KTM does best and that is basically what the bike was designed for, all the extra filters and screens are there to keep the sand out.
 
It is more than worth it. Triumph and street bikes are a totally different animal than KTM and Husqvarna.

...oh, if it is black then it is probably a 950.

[R.Markus]

How tall are you? And seriously, that oil change is a real PITA. There's a great KTM thread pinned in the thumper section at advrider, check it out.

Yeah, height might be an issue also.

 I'm 5-08 with a 29 inch inseam...

Here's me trying to put my feet down while stopped...bear in mind that the rear is loaded down with camping gear also, so I can't usually touch that well.



This pic shows how tall the 640 is compared to the KLR:



...and that oil change isn't that bad, it takes about an hour and you can get a good look around the bike to see if anything else needs to be given some attention (like bending your handguard back into shape because it's compressing the front brake lever).

[Mac]

I have the drz 400 s and love it. I commute with it about 45-50 min one way, sometimes on back roads and sometimes slab. The big thing is gearing. Swap out a front sprocket with a 12 or 13 tooth if you're going to ride in the dirt and put the 15 back on if you're riding slab and maybe change out the rear with a 38 tooth. I have 4 front sprockets and 6 rear ones. Total cost maybe 150 bucks. The two sets of wheels thing is a good idea if you can find them. I would ride the drz more if I could just swap rims instead of having to spoon on different tires  for street or dirt riding. All in all its a very good bike.

[hig4s]

The KTMs are sweet bikes, but they are designed like real racing machines, takes a bike of maintenance, just like having a motocross machine.

If the maintenance issue is a problem I say go for the DRZ400 nice bike.. Or if you are serious that you won't be that much on the trails check out the DRZ400SM  (supermoto) same bike but slightly lowered suspension to make it better on the street.  Although it comes with street tires and you would have to change to dual sport tires or buy a second set of rims and put dire tires on them.

[DNA]

Thanks all.
As for height - I am 6'0", but it is all leg.
I was flat footing my friends big Strom last week and I could tip toe the 1150 GSA.
That was a tall bike - I hope the KTM is not that big.
With all this info - looks like my decision will largely be based on availability and what great deal comes my way.
Thanks for all the data - the DRZ with 2 sets of rims and a bunch of sprockets could work, the KTM could too.