**SPOILER Content** AMA Daytona on TV - a guide to the foolishness

[DogBoy]

So its that time of year to be frustrated by the programming schedule of the AMA roadracing opener.

Roadracing is on Thursday (tomorrow) and Saturday.

Live on Thursday is Daytona 200 (FX) Qualifying, AMA SuperSport (600) race and the AMA Superstock (1000cc) race. For reasons that escape me, none of this will be listed in TIVO or other guides as motorcycle racing. Instead the program title is "Daytona Bike Week" which is actual live qualifying and racing (no bikinis or wet t-shirt contests). Just setting your DVR (or what have you) to "motorcycle racing" won't catch any of the Thursday racing, leaving you no option but to post a long rant about the above programming.

Friday is the Supercross which is shown Friday night. AMA flattrack is on Friday, too, but I can't find a listing for when it will be broadcast.

Saturday is the AMA Superbike race and the Daytona 200 (which is Formula Xtreme).


Remember BMW is racing HP2 Sports in the 200 this year against the 600cc bikes so that should be fun.




NOTE: As always: PLEASE CHECK YOUR LOCAL LISTINGS which are subject to changes or pre-emptings for the latest news on Britney Spears.

[Gaolee]

Is Buell going to be there this year?  I expect there are going to be a couple Triumphs.  Having Triumph, Buell, Ducati, and BMW in the 200 makes for a much more entertaining race to listen to, if nothing else.

[DogBoy]

No factory Buell effort. I think there is just one Buell privateer entry.

[Jeff N]

Yup, just one Buell. A few 848s, some 675s, and three BMW HP2s.

1st practice results-

http://www.amaproracing.com/prorace/raceres/rr/qres.asp?cls=fe&snct=p8200&type=p&rnum=1&year=2008

[DogBoy]

I just added SPOILER to the thread title. Might as well make this the AMA Daytona roadracing thread.

[scott-sts]

Thanks Dogboy.  I've been scrambling through the channel guide trying to find this stuff.

[Grubnik]

Is that all on SpeedTV (NASCRAP Central)?

[Jeff N]

Is that all on SpeedTV (NASCRAP Central)?

Yup.

[rajflyboy]

who is picking up the Supercross Race on Friday night?   CBS ?  ABC?

[DogBoy]

Supercross is on SPEED. 11:30pm Eastern Friday.
click and scroll

[Mr Sunshine]

Thanks a bunch...one dvr set.  Gonna go to my backup shortly and then tomorrow at work i'll do that backup.  

[Busy Little Whiner]

Saturday is the AMA Superbike race and the Daytona 200 (which is Formula Xtreme).

Mercy AMA... when are you going stop the FX silliness and return the Daytona 200 to it's former glory???

[Busy Little Whiner]

Is Buell going to be there this year?  I expect there are going to be a couple Triumphs.  Having Triumph, Buell, Ducati, and BMW in the 200 makes for a much more entertaining race to listen to, if nothing else.

If only Triumph had picked the V4 instead of the I4 when they challenged the big 4... They
would have been a 600cc contended instead of a 675 receiving lessons in acceleration...    

[Grubnik]

If only Triumph had picked the V4 instead of the I4 when they challenged the big 4... They
would have been a 600cc contended instead of a 675 receiving lessons in acceleration...    

You do realize that's not a pic of a 675, right?  Why even ask...  It's not a v-4, so...  You really are a boring old git.

[DogBoy]

Superbike not looking so bad. six bikes and three manufacturers in about one second of each other. Really good to see Tommy Hayden on the pace.

   
1       Mathew Mladin   American Suzuki   Suzuki GSXR1000            1:35.760
2   Ben Spies   American Suzuki   Suzuki GSXR1000                    1:35.967
3   Tommy Hayden   American Suzuki   Suzuki GSX R1000             1:36.061
4   Jason DiSalvo   Yamaha Motor Corp   Yamaha YZF R1    1:36.340
5   Eric Bostrom   Yamaha Motor Corp   Yamaha YZF R1    1:36.611
6   Jamie Hacking   Monster Kawasaki   Kawasaki ZX10RR   1:36.785

Yosh Suzuki is no doubt still the team to beat but its not Ben and Mat 1.5-2.0 seconds faster than everyone else.

[Busy Little Whiner]

You do realize that's not a pic of a 675, right?  

I posted a pic of the old 600cc I4 in case it was forgotten...

[Nouroog]

650cc. Still wrong.  

[DogBoy]

That same Daytona body style was first a 600cc I-4 and later the 650cc I-4. Which is as relevant to this thread as any of Larry's posts.

[DogBoy]

Interesting stuff at Daytona about the possible winning bidder to take over AMA Roadracing.

From RoadracingWorld.com:
Schwantz And Nobles Replaced As Pace Car Crew For Daytona 200, MOTO-ST Crew Takes Over

...and more.

[Busy Little Whiner]

650cc. Still wrong.  

I know it's not real clear but there is a 600 logo on the tail cowl...

[scott-sts]

My good friend Neil Hodgson just took the pole for the FX race.
You heard it here first (I'm in constant touch with sources at the speedway)

[Gaolee]

I posted a pic of the old 600cc I4 in case it was forgotten...

Yeah, it was a 600 to start with.  But, the triple is doing just fine in WSS for its first season.  It recorded the highest absolute speed during the race at Phillip Island and if McCoy hadn't started as far back as he was, he would have been contending at the end of the race.  This after a whole one race's worth of data and engine development.  His bike started as a stock bike, straight off the assembly line about eight weeks ago.

I don't think we need no stinkin' V4.  Fours of all kinds are headed for the dustbin of history!

[Busy Little Whiner]

I don't think we need no stinkin' V4.  Fours of all kinds are headed for the dustbin of history!

Triples either need more displacement or they need more cylinders to stay on pace with the 4 bangers...  

[DogBoy]

Good racing in both SuperSport and Superstock today. Can't wait for this weekend.

[highside]

Here is why the AMA is doomed. We are all genuine motorcycle enthusiasts, who have enough invested in the sport that we actually post about it during our free time on this forum. It is difficult for many of US to figure out what the hell is going on during any given weekend with the AMA. Hell, you really have to do a bit of homework and get lucky to even WATCH a race on TV. How the hell are they supposed to get people interested in a sport that is difficult to find on TV, and has a structure that is indecipherable even to enthusiasts?

[Orson]

How the hell are they supposed to get people interested in a sport that is difficult to find on TV, and has a structure that is indecipherable even to enthusiasts?

it's our lot in life.

we'll forever be down there with swamp racing buggies and the dirt track cars with the big wings on their roof.

[DogBoy]

Here is why the AMA is doomed. We are all genuine motorcycle enthusiasts, who have enough invested in the sport that we actually post about it during our free time on this forum. It is difficult for many of US to figure out what the hell is going on during any given weekend with the AMA. Hell, you really have to do a bit of homework and get lucky to even WATCH a race on TV. How the hell are they supposed to get people interested in a sport that is difficult to find on TV, and has a structure that is indecipherable even to enthusiasts?

Oh come on. If I can figure it out, anyone can.

[Jeff N]

it's our lot in life.

Indeed it is.

In this country, motorcycles are seen as toys used by the crazy dangerous types who don't have any sense of self preservation. There is no common understanding.

Most of the rest of the world acknowledges that motorcycles play an important part of life. It's basic transport for most people. They understand what it means. Here in the land of plenty, a cheap econobox is your basic means of getting somewhere, and everyone desires a move up the ladder to something "better", like a Hummer or some such. No one here would think of using a bike to get anywhere, lest it be a bar or a Starbucks parking lot.

[Busy Little Whiner]

Here is why the AMA is doomed.

We can only hope for someone like Kenny Roberts to take over the doom and gloom AMA..

[DogBoy]

AMA Selects Edmundson and Daytona Motorsports Group to promote several AMA pro racing series.
Link


I think this is good. Roger Edmondson loves motorcycle racing as does Jim France who, IIRC, once raced motorcycles. They've done a good job with the Moto-ST series and Grand-Am Roadracing series both of which draw lots of talent and manufacturer involvement. Edmundson did a very good job with AMA roadracing his first time around.

[scott-sts]

Here is why the AMA is doomed. We are all genuine motorcycle enthusiasts, who have enough invested in the sport that we actually post about it during our free time on this forum. It is difficult for many of US to figure out what the hell is going on during any given weekend with the AMA. Hell, you really have to do a bit of homework and get lucky to even WATCH a race on TV. How the hell are they supposed to get people interested in a sport that is difficult to find on TV, and has a structure that is indecipherable even to enthusiasts?

Back in the 80's I had to buy videotapes of the Grand Prix races from Duke video-6 months after the race.
Needless to say I am very happy that bike racing is televised.

[nycbr]

Edmonson and France are the right guys for the job.

What happened to MV Augusta this year?  

[highside]

AMA Selects Edmundson and Daytona Motorsports Group to promote several AMA pro racing series.
Link


I think this is good. Roger Edmondson loves motorcycle racing as does Jim France who, IIRC, once raced motorcycles. They've done a good job with the Moto-ST series and Grand-Am Roadracing series both of which draw lots of talent and manufacturer involvement. Edmundson did a very good job with AMA roadracing his first time around.

I agree, I think this is the best thing that could have happened. These guys sure as hell know how to promote and organize a racing series. I think this might be just what we needed.

[Mr Sunshine]

You know I can't believe that Josh Hayes was disqualified!!!!

Such a shitty end to a great race for him....I would be sooo pissed if I was him.

[heinee]

You know I can't believe that Josh Hayes was disqualified!!!!

Such a shitty end to a great race for him....I would be sooo pissed if I was him.

Honda is enjoying a not-so-good weekend..Jake's debacle in the pits, Miggy misinformed about the use of a back-up bike, Hodgson's bike going incontinent at the end of the race with a podium locked up  

[traveler]

Honda is enjoying a not-so-good weekend..Jake's debacle in the pits, Miggy misinformed about the use of a back-up bike, Hodgson's bike going incontinent at the end of the race with a podium locked up  

Kind of mirrors their recent experiences in AMA superbike and MOTOGP, where they can't seem to find their asses with both hands. Oh, and lest we forget, their less than stellar results over the past few years in F1. They have totally lost the plot, from a factory standpoint. If not for teams like Ten Kate in WSB, they wouldn't have won squat, with the exception of their 600rr successes here. And now cheating?

What would Mr. Honda do?

[heinee]

What would Mr. Honda do?

I think that's the answer..there isn't a  Mr. Honda..  

[keystonejenks]

Honda is enjoying a not-so-good weekend..Jake's debacle in the pits, Miggy misinformed about the use of a back-up bike, Hodgson's bike going incontinent at the end of the race with a podium locked up  

I had to just see if I missed something. I guess he was talking about Miguel getting black flagged not Hayes. It's a shame what happened to Zemke. He was looking really strong. I was pulling for him and then that pit BS happened.

[bluepoof]

Dammit, our Tivo didn't record the 200 (the one I wanted to watch; what with the HP2s and all) and instead recorded the snoozefest that was the Superbike race.  

When the hell did the 200 become Formula XTreme and not Superbike?

I hope this season isn't just one big Suzuki spooge again.  

[Jeff N]

When the hell did the 200 become Formula XTreme and not Superbike?

About 4 years ago. There's a rumor that it'll revert back to Superbike next year.

[bluepoof]

About 4 years ago.

 Shows how long I've been ignoring the AMA races!

[DogBoy]

You know I can't believe that Josh Hayes was disqualified!!!!

Such a shitty end to a great race for him....I would be sooo pissed if I was him.

Just crushing news for Josh Hayes. I feel terrible for him.

[jed]

What happened to MV Augusta this year?  

FBF couldn't come up with enough money to run it.  The factory decided to focus on WSBK.  Scassa is riding for the factory.  Matt Lynn is now riding a CBR1000 in AMA superbike for Corona.

[keystonejenks]

Just crushing news for Josh Hayes. I feel terrible for him.

 
Man, this blows.

[scott-sts]

I lifted the following off of Soup and it pretty much sums up my feeling regarding the Daytona 200:

The stars not participating in the great race hasn't escaped the new owners of the series. When asked about Superbike's future in the Daytona 200 at the Friday news conference, Roger Edmonson said that Superbikes would be the class racing the 200 next year. That's because, he joked, changing it for tomorrow was too soon.

 

[highside]

I lifted the following off of Soup and it pretty much sums up my feeling regarding the Daytona 200:

The stars not participating in the great race hasn't escaped the new owners of the series. When asked about Superbike's future in the Daytona 200 at the Friday news conference, Roger Edmonson said that Superbikes would be the class racing the 200 next year. That's because, he joked, changing it for tomorrow was too soon.

 

Aren't the new owners of AMA racing the very same people that banned superbikes from the 200?

[DogBoy]

Aren't the new owners of AMA racing the very same people that banned superbikes from the 200?

No. Jim France is kind of the red-headed stepchild of the France family. Neither he nor Roger Edmundson work for International Speedway Corporation (ISC) who operate the Daytona International Speedway. Jim France and Roger Edmondson operate Daytona Motorsports Group (DMG) and I believe their offices are in the same building as NASCAR but neither of them would have had the power to decide what motorcycles races at DIS...until now. DMG obviously has close ties to NASCAR due to family but they are not part of NASCAR or International Speedway Corporation

Daytona International Speedway management (ISC) is who insisted on the change to FX from Superbikes for the 200.

I'm curious to see who the return to Superbikes will work and what Dunlop (or other tire manufacturers) have to say about it. I'm also curious to see what Ben Spies and Eric Bostrom think. IIRC, they both suffered tire failures on the banking at top speed (though the incidents were a few years apart) and had the opportunity to slide down the track at 180mph.

While it would be cool to have the top names and bikes in the premier race, I'll live with the existing set up to avoid the carnage.

[Jeff N]

Tires are always a concern at Daytona. On the big bikes they sometimes spin on their rims, fall apart, expand so much they get interference from the chassis. We could ask Barry Sheene, but he's dead.

[heinee]

I think there is one "small" item that needs to be addressed that hasn't been brought up yet. The surface of the Daytona banking needs to be redone. In NASCAR turns 3&4, there are some serious rolling bumps now. Even the neck-car guys are complaining, and not just this year. It's an issue that they have been quietly bringing up in the past few years, but it's now becoming so bad, the cars are getting bounced off line while everyone is door to door.
If you watch the telecast, the rear of the bikes are bouncing around and getting really loose as the riders are streaking along the banking  
Hopefully there are plans in the near future for the banking to get resurfaced and the bumps ground down.

[Busy Little Whiner]

You know I can't believe that Josh Hayes was disqualified!!!!

Such a shitty end to a great race for him....I would be sooo pissed if I was him.

Mercy that really hurts Josh... but I don't blame Kevin Erion for wanting to trim weight...
I4's crankshafts are a lot heavier than a V4...

[highside]

No. Jim France is kind of the red-headed stepchild of the France family. Neither he nor Roger Edmundson work for International Speedway Corporation (ISC) who operate the Daytona International Speedway. Jim France and Roger Edmondson operate Daytona Motorsports Group (DMG) and I believe their offices are in the same building as NASCAR but neither of them would have had the power to decide what motorcycles races at DIS...until now. DMG obviously has close ties to NASCAR due to family but they are not part of NASCAR or International Speedway Corporation

Daytona International Speedway management (ISC) is who insisted on the change to FX from Superbikes for the 200.

I'm curious to see who the return to Superbikes will work and what Dunlop (or other tire manufacturers) have to say about it. I'm also curious to see what Ben Spies and Eric Bostrom think. IIRC, they both suffered tire failures on the banking at top speed (though the incidents were a few years apart) and had the opportunity to slide down the track at 180mph.

While it would be cool to have the top names and bikes in the premier race, I'll live with the existing set up to avoid the carnage.

Help me out here then. If they aren't the same group, then how can the guarantee that there will be a superbike race at Daytona next year? If the people who made the decision wouldnt let AMA run superbikes there, why would that change now just because of a change in managment? The bikes are still way fast for that track, and all of the safety concerns are still there. The Daytona guys dont want to see a 200 MPH motorcycle crash into their wall, or god forbid a furball that takes a few bikes out on the banked section. Banning superbikes at the 200 was a rational decision. Its certainly a matter for debate, but I wonder if a simple change in the names at the top of the letterhead is a legitimate reason to revisit the issue.

[DogBoy]

No one knows how "Superbike" will be defined next year. Its up to the new management (which really is more than a change of names at the top of the letterhead). They can promise superbikes in the 200 but we don't really know what that means.

[highside]

Man, I'm gonna be pretty dissapointed if AMA Superbike doesnt end up with faster machines than this years FX class.  

[highside]

I lifted the following off of Soup and it pretty much sums up my feeling regarding the Daytona 200:

The stars not participating in the great race hasn't escaped the new owners of the series. When asked about Superbike's future in the Daytona 200 at the Friday news conference, Roger Edmonson said that Superbikes would be the class racing the 200 next year. That's because, he joked, changing it for tomorrow was too soon.

 

/thread rez.

We found out today how they planned on getting Superbikes back to Daytona: by simply redifining the "supoerbike" as a 600CC machine with horspower and weight limits to ensure competition (ala restrictor plates). AMA Superbike racing is now dead and buried.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=32070

According to DMG's presentation, there will be four classes of racing in 2009: Daytona Superbike, LiterBike, MOTO-ST and a specialty racing series -- the Red Bull AMA U.S. Rookies Cup was given as an example.

Daytona Superbike will be the premier class and will race twice on a typical weekend, once on Saturday and once on Sunday. It will have a rule structure designed to “promote parity and competition” among Twins, Triples and four-cylinder machines, allowing participation from the maximum number of brands from around the world. DMG’s presentation states that 10 manufacturers (Aprilia, BMW, Buell, Ducati, Honda, Kawasaki, KTM, Suzuki, Triumph and Yamaha) currently offer a motorcycle eligible for the class.

So yeah, when they said they would bring Superbikes back to Daytona, what they meant to say was that they would make the United States the laughing stock of the Road Racing world by turning our "premier" series into supersport, and making it look a little more like Nascar.

[stromgal]

According to the new race managers, the Riders are most important, followed by the Sponsors, followed by the Marque. Shades of NASCRAP.  I had hopes for the new guys, but those are diminishing...

[LicketySplat]

No one knows how "Superbike" will be defined next year. Its up to the new management (which really is more than a change of names at the top of the letterhead). They can promise superbikes in the 200 but we don't really know what that means.

DogBoy gets the gold star  

[tomek]

Do we have members in Daytona ????????

Can some run up to friendly drug dealer and check on prices of pot,,,,,,,,,,,,,might be on short supply,,,,,,,,,DMG is using that by track loads,,,,,,,,