Can a Bike have too much "soul"?

[mike in oregon]

Hey all.  I'm new here, but have horrible (wonderful) motorcycle addiction.  This is something I've been thinking about for some time.   I've had certain bikes that are more tools to get from a-b (IMO), but I seem to pay more attention to my surroundings and have more introspective rides on them-more smelling the roses, and enjoying myself in a more sedate (and safe) manner.  Examples for me were bmwf650, R1150R, HD 883 Sportster (stock pipes and jetting).  Now,  I'm not putting down these bikes at all.  They all have magical qualities and good and bad points.

Lately (past few years) I've been getting bikes that, for me, are and absolute hoot to ride, but I get soo wrapped up in their character, that most of the time I'm on them, it's all about the bike-sounds, vibes, speed. Examples -Ducati monster 800, KTM 950 Adventure, and most recently KTM 950 super moto.  These bikes, particularly the 950 sm, are like your buddy in high school that constantly dared you to go a little faster, drink one more beer.  I find more and more that I miss being able to go for a nice exploring ride without searching for a stretch of road to get to triple digits.  I guess this all boils down to that I'm getting older?? (I'm 38)  

Anyone else have oppinion or similar thoughts?

BTW, I only have my 950 sm and a new f650, and the 950 is going to be sold.

[Baz]

My Bandit continually tells me to sleep with Jessica Alba!

I am telling you there are voices!

But on the serious side, I have experianced a soul in every bike or vehicle I have owned.

[curvesurfer]

I don't think soul is the issue, but rather, the ability of the bike to provide a rewarding experience without encouraging triple-digit speeds.

If the 950SM is your kind of fun but puts your license at risk, why not try a DRZ400 SM? Owners rave they're an absolute hoot, even at modest speeds.

[Schneegz]

My Bandit continually tells me to sleep with Jessica Alba!

Bandit?  You call it Bandit?  Isn't that kind of a dog name?

[Schneegz]

This thread begs the question; if a bike can have "soul", then there must be a bike that is the James Brown - the Godfather of Soul - of bikes.  What bike, then, is the Godfather of Soul?

[Busy Little Whiner]

Anyone else have oppinion or similar thoughts?

Mr.RC45 is possessor of souls... mine and others pretending that the exotic is theirs...



 

[Orson]

bikes with 1980s paint jobs should be put to the crusher.

I mean come on...80s paint jobs are like 80s bands..A Flock of Seagulls  

[Joey Stalin]

There is no such thing as "soul" for a motorcycle. It's a mechanical device made up of metal, plastic, and rubber. Soul, at least in the automotive world, is an oft-used excuse for vehicles that don't perform as well as their competitors in most measureable ways, but still grab the heart strings of the driver. It's a typical problem that afflicts Euro snobs who won't look at anything Japanese as being anything more than an appliance, despite any performance/value/quality/styling superiorities. Thankfully this does not seem to afflict the motorcycle world as badly, with the exception of Ducati, because the Japanese make some damn good bikes that are well appreciated.

[cworley5150]

Bandit?  You call it Bandit?  Isn't that kind of a dog name?

Would that be "Sammy the One-Eyed Bandit"?

[andmoon]

A bike has soul when
it's so ugly nobody steals it
it hasn't had a bath in over 50K miles
the odometer has rolled over a few times
it runs diff. day to day depending on its mood
it knows the way home
you talk to it
.
.
.
e
t
c
.

[TheRedOnesAreFaster]

Harleys have too much soul.  It's the packed-in soul screaming to get out that makes all that racket.

[Bad Dad]

Soul??     Oh, It's got SOUL! It's a damn Soul Train

[buckeye]

I don't know if this bike has soul, but it was probably made in Seoul.  

[ChuckBecker]

There is no such thing as "soul" for a motorcycle. It's a mechanical device made up of metal, plastic, and rubber. Soul, at least in the automotive world, is an oft-used excuse for vehicles that don't perform as well as their competitors in most measureable ways, but still grab the heart strings of the driver. It's a typical problem that afflicts Euro snobs who won't look at anything Japanese as being anything more than an appliance, despite any performance/value/quality/styling superiorities. Thankfully this does not seem to afflict the motorcycle world as badly, with the exception of Ducati, because the Japanese make some damn good bikes that are well appreciated.

Rubbish.  The product of artists can have soul (James Brown, "Father of Soul").  Sculpture, paintings, music, poetry, literature.  Musical instruments, for goodness sakes.  When a human being creates something, if it is art, it reflects or embodies the soul of the person who created it.  Big4 bikes certainly can have soul, but usually the singular vision of the individual creator has been distilled out ("industrial art" as opposed to "fine art").  The Euros simply seem to have a finer appreciation for the human essence in design, the Big4 seem to be more driven by market demands and mechanical excellence.

Just 'cause I can't sing or dance doesn't mean that music and motion aren't very real.

[jstark47]

These bikes, particularly the 950 sm, are like your buddy in high school that constantly dared you to go a little faster, drink one more beer.  I find more and more that I miss being able to go for a nice exploring ride without searching for a stretch of road to get to triple digits.

If the katoom does that to ya, stay the hell away from Speed Triples!  

[Windblown]

Yes, Though I might or might not consider it "Soul".

I drive a boring A$$ truck and I don't have any idea what it's top speed is because it would still be a boring a$$ truck even maxed out, it just wouldn't be fun.

I have a Concours and don't know what it's stop speed is because it would still be a Concours even at top speed, again it wouldn't be fun on top. More than likely it would be a dangerous handful..

I have a Sprint and have a pretty good idea what it's top speed is. (And shame on me for knowing it)

I don't have a liter bike because for me it's not worth the cost to buy and insure for a perfomance envelope that I would never have any business finding.

[Leanintree]

I would say, YES... it IS possible for a bike to have too much soul.

I use as example and old friend of mine. A few years ago, he had the means to purchase a Duc 748 in red. After almost 5 years of ownership, that Duc has sat in his office for 9/10ths of it's life, and has a grand total of 750 miles on it. I see this as a bike that has more soul than it's owner. It has so much soul that he can't ride it. It has so much soul that he uses it as art, not as transport. Now it sits in his garage and still screams "SOUL!". At least when it's not screaming "You're destroying my soul!!! Ride me you namby pamby!!!".

Why must that 'soul' also come with pain and misery? Maybe that's the tradeoff...

Leanintree

[cbsnbiker]

This is the best answer I've read:  

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,1938.msg40719.html#msg40719

[bikerfish1100]

any bike that has a cold-start ritual to which only you are privvy, and prevents anyone else from successfully getting it running. yeah, that got soul.

[kendenton]

A bike has soul when
it's so ugly nobody steals it
it hasn't had a bath in over 50K miles
the odometer has rolled over a few times
it runs diff. day to day depending on its mood
it knows the way home
you talk to it
.
.
.
e
t
c
.

  I read this post and you came to mind - then I saw that you wrote it!

[bizarro]

Soul??     Oh, It's got SOUL! It's a damn Soul Train

Hmmm..... I think there is a difference between soul and attitude. I don't think I've owned a bike with real soul yet because I haven't owned a Guzzi or any running vintage bikes. Now bikes with attitude I can speak to. The RC51 that I had was full of it, so much so that I sold it because I was doing things on it that were, well, problematic. And my Speed Triple? Thoroughly antisocial. I wouldn't, however, call either of those two bikes particularly soulful.

[Bad Dad]

The Guzzi Sport 1100 I rode didn't so much have soul as..er..we'll call it, character The BSA 441 Victor, it had the soul of a jackhammer The Ducati 900SS had the soul of a, well actually a mind...a mind of it's own I get a Lil anxious  when goin out to the garage to ride the RC, the hair on the back of my neck stands up shortly after light off...Maybe it's...Soul Stirring

[Mac]

Only if James Brown reincarnates as a bike!

But what an exhaust note it would have!!
Owww! I feel good!!!

[mike in oregon]

Thanks for the replies.  It is an interesting question that, I think everyone has to answer for themselves.  I do believe that bikes have "soul".  They are designed and created by human beings, drink fuel, burn it, and belch out gas in loud or soft tones.  I have personally lost at least a month of my life in a huge spat I had w/ my old duc monster, trying to replace a broken closer spring in the head of the vert. cylinder.  I literally was biting the tires in frustration.  BUT, and this is a big butt, once she was running-oh she was the most beautiful creation known to man, who could do no wrong.  I'm nuts...I know.  There have just been too many magical moments on two wheels for me think of bikes as cold, lifeless creations.  I'm nuts...I know.

See ya

[Joey Stalin]

I just take issue with those who claim that one bike is better than another because of some claim of an intangible "soul" that the other bike just doesn't have. I see it in reverse on this forum all the time...people on this forum love to bash HD owners because their bikes are slow, overweight, underpowered, etc. But HD owners will tell you that it's the greatest bike ever due to something akin to an unexplainable soul (which is really just marketing). So if you believe in your bike of choice having "soul", then you also have to agree to the same for the much vilified Harley.

[cole]

Soul is something that is different for everyone and Biko. I can understand an HD ownere saying it has soul.
For me my last bike lacked soul a 2005 fjr , As good as it was it bored most of the time to ride it . My current bike r1200s has brought back something that I have not experienced in a long time the feel of the motor that way it accelerates and even the way the bike rocks to the right at idle when giving it gas.

[Penforhire]

To me, "soul" in a bike means quirks and/or malfunctions.  With that definition in mind, yeah, a bike can have way too much soul.  Such as stranding you on the side of the road too often.

[ChuckBecker]

To me, "soul" in a bike means quirks and/or malfunctions....

That's a quirky definition.

[ChuckBecker]

I just take issue with those who claim that one bike is better than another because of some claim of an intangible "soul" that the other bike just doesn't have. I see it in reverse on this forum all the time...people on this forum love to bash HD owners because their bikes are slow, overweight, underpowered, etc. But HD owners will tell you that it's the greatest bike ever due to something akin to an unexplainable soul (which is really just marketing). So if you believe in your bike of choice having "soul", then you also have to agree to the same for the much vilified Harley.

Agreed, and I wouldn't say that "soul" makes up for an otherwise infuriating, unreliable, disappointing bike.  As for Harleys, perhaps some do have soul, in others I only see a marketing committee.  And FWIW (probably not much at this point) I consider the SV650 a pretty soulful bike.

[Dr Gil]

...be still my heart!  

[Bryan]

"soul" I have seen it, about 10 to 15 Norton 850 Commandos running down a small Scottish road and crossing a stone bridge creating lots of great noise, then the middle age beer bellied riders with the well worn leathers, dismounting with cigarettes hanging out one side of their mouths, rosy cheeks and brylcreamed hair. With hands like hay grapes and sausage fingers, smiling coughing and shaking hands with my friends and I. shaking their heads and slapping our backs as they chuckle amongst themselves while discusing the latest Japanese bikes we are riding.

 As the sun shone on the Commandos on that frosty morning, the "Made in England" statement on the frame tubes brightly stood out and caught my eye.

 Alas that was when the rider defined the bike and not the bike defining the rider, the world has changed, no bike has soul I feel its the guy or gal that is on the bike that gives out the soul.

[ogomer]

if after a good ride, it takes you ten minutes to get the grin off of your face, then it has soul. If when you are walking into the house, you have to turn around and look at it one more time, then it has soul. If it is an Aprilia, it has soul.

[curvesurfer]

I just take issue with those who claim that one bike is better than another because of some claim of an intangible "soul" that the other bike just doesn't have. ... if you believe in your bike of choice having "soul", then you also have to agree to the same for the much vilified Harley.

I certainly wouldn't suggest that a bike with "soul" is better than one without. Perhaps more satisfying to own for some folks, but not necessarily better. And I agree this extends to Harleys, too.

There *are* intangible qualities in some motorcycles, and not all of them are driven by marketing. Perhaps it's provided by history, or heritage, or racing pedigree, or maybe a sense of identification with the folks who build them, or a strong representation of an idealized way of life.

Ducatis, for example, are built by Italians, a culture with a rich history of motosports, design, and lust for life. Ducati builds one thing: motorcycles, and to some degree they do it to support their racing programs. An association with this history and passion provides a sense of soul for the bikes of Ducati owners.

Harleys fall into a similar category, built by a company that only builds motorcycles, has a long racing history, and is an icon for the fringe-of-society, freedom-of-the-road, guns-and-babes lifestyle.

True, Ducati and Harley spend a lot on marketing, but Guzzis share some of the same qualities of both Ducati and Harley, yet has no marketing presence whatsoever. BSAs and Nortans stir similar feelings, and those companies are defunct.

Suzuki and Honda, for all their technical prowess and racing success, don't offer the same cachet.

One test of soul is whether owners of a certain brand or model seek each other out to share the experience of ownership. There are tons of Harley clubs and "Ducati nights" and celebrations of old brit iron. But you'll see few GSXR rallys because, while these bikes are marvels of engineering, their owners simply don't feel the same way about them.

For some, the pure, cold, techinical superiority of a Big 4 Japanese bike is enough reward. But others prefer machines that are often less competent, more expensive, and/or less reliable. On paper, it makes no sense. Trying to quantify soul seldom does.