2008 Concours.....ABS or nonABS? and some other little questions

[FBRR]

I too chose to NOT get ABS.

[GTS_Rider]

I too chose to NOT get ABS.

Just a gut feeling?

ABS will take over and kill your arse?

More info please...

[FBRR]

GTS_Rider,
I've ridden for 30 years. While I'm not anti-ABS or technology, there are limitations of ABS on a bike. I wouldn't think of NOT having ABS on a car. There are several KEY differences between cars and bikes as it relates to ABS. ( And I have "explored" the ABS brake preformance of bikes on a "pad" with skids installed. The skids allow you to panic brake on many different types of braking surfaces under "controlled" ABS activation.)

 Difference between cars and bikes:
Car are use year round on expected and unexpected ICE covered roads, as well as rain. ( yes, I know we ride bikes in rain, but I don't do so if the temperature will be near freezing!)
The biggest difference between a car and a bike ( for me ) is the fact that cars have four ABS sensors and Bikes have two! It is more difficult to detect "false-traction" events with only two sensors for ABS software. ( and again, yes I have access to first hand discussions with folks that do the ABS software!)
Under most conditions the lack of the extra sensors is not an issue. So most folks will never experience anything but PROPER ABS function and the system will help those folks.
The instance when "two-wheel ABS" can be an issue is "rough road" detection. While this state can be quickly "learned" with four sensors, it is more difficult to "decide" for the ABS controller with ONLY two INPUTS. If/When that happens, if the system is the
un-linked variety ( and this is one reason many bike ABS systems are "linked". Mnay folks on bikes ONLY USE one brake at a time. Most only use the front, but some only use the back. ) is if it is a "false-detect" on a rough surface (ie. boken concrete or simply too many pot holes and the wheel is bouncing ) that braking force from that wheel is now " modulated" by the ABS controller and the braking force GOES AWAY. I think it is one or two of the BWM application that has this very issue. There was at least one report of someone hitting a fuel pump coming to a stop and the ABS on the front wheel "released".
  While this is a very "isolated" incident, and many folks swear by ABS on a bike, after 30 years of riding ( without ABS ) I know what to expect from my brakes UNDER ALL conditions. I also try to anticipate WHEN my brakes preformance will be EFFECTED.
Wet weather, dirt, PANIC situtations etc.

And agian, while I've read the "there was nothing I could do" and ABS saved me the first TWENTY minutes I had it" threads. I beleive there is plenty one can do before YOU REACH the point of NEEDING ABS. If you "depend" on ABS to save you on a bike, Just my opinion but you need to ride MORE DEFENSIVELY and think ahead. As this is a primary ( thinking ahead ) requirement for RIDING a MOTORCYLE, I don't want a "fall-back" ABS system to protect me from not "thinking defensively" FIRST!!

[GTS_Rider]

... I also try to antsipate WHEN my brakes preformance will be EFFECTED.
Wet weather, dirt, PANIC situtations etc.

...I don't want a "fall-back" ABS system to protect me from not "thinking defensively" FIRST!!

Hey, I'm with ya brother on some points. I too think I'm a master of anticipation (and we're not talking ketchup here). Hey, I've only got 24 years in the saddle to your 30, but I'm equally sure of my abilities to predict and avoid a potential impact.

Still, anticipating a "PANIC" situation is not possible. If you were able to anticipate, it would not be a panic situation.

On your other point I quoted '...I don't want a "fall-back" ABS system to protect me from not "thinking defensively" FIRST!!' .

I don't know what to say. Ok, let me say this..., back in highschool daze I used to always drive my car sans seatbelt. My reasoning was that:

1.) I knew I didn't have my seatbelt on.  
2.)Since I already knew #1 as a fact, I would do much better at avoiding the impending impact or rollover since I already knew, *not* avoiding it likely carried a penalty of death or serious bodily harm.

Hey, I know, what a stupid thought. Accidents happen whether you have a seatbelt or not. If you wreck without one you're much more likely to get f'd up in the process. You're going to do you best to avoid impact regardless of whether you have a seatbelt or not.

Just because you think you're being super careful does not mean you don't need a seatbelt. Unexpected *shit happens*...

Yeah, I know, motorcycles don't have seatbelts. As far as I know, ABS is the closest match, as far as something that can potentially save your ass in a panic situation...

p.s.

I've never been in a panic situation where abs saved my ass. I've never even tripped it except on purpose. More importantly, I've done serious hard braking maneuvers short of locking the tires and the abs never got in my way...

[FBRR]

GTS,
As I said, I think ABS will help alot of folks. Panic situations happen. Accidents Happen. I know I am not perfect for prediction. But all that said, I can count TWO incidents when I have had a "near miss" in the last 6 years. ABS would not have helped in either case and my "normal" brakes worked good enough under PANIC mode that both times I stayed upright and MISSED the "panic" problem. I won't go into detail but ONE of those panic situtations the Throttle got me out of the "jam" not brakes. My statement about not having ABS was more in line of " I don't want the first thing I think of to be BRAKE, just because in my mind I HAVE ABS."

The second point I made was this. Software is only as good as the folks "thinking" of a PROBABLITY. Prehaps I am too close to how software is "invented" and it's limitations. But just because "softeware/computers" can ACT faster than a HUMAN under some conditions, said software is still only as GOOD as the folks writing the program. And as I pointed out, 98% of the time that software/computer does exactly what it should. On a bike I prefer to depend on my "defensive" operation and KNOW what the braking system will do every time. For many here they face far more PANIC situations than I do. I do not commute to work, and I seldom ride in URBAN areas. My trips are planned to  use secondary "low traffic" roads.( perhaps that is why I have only had two "close encounters" in the last six years. If I rode Expressways or commuted on my bike I would probably make a different decision.)
One other area where two sensors vs. four is an issue ( just for information ) is when one wheel is OFF the GROUND. ( see wheelie! I know "we" would never do THAT!!!
But it is a limitation for the ABS controller to define.)

You asked why I chose to not have ABS, and those are my reasons. I'm sure others have a good reason to chose ABS on their bikes.

Also as the C14 DOES not have a linked system, it is wise to "cover" both brakes every stop, just in case. ( even if you are only "using" the front brake.)
Cheers..

[todao]

there are still a number of holdovers to the earlier days of ABS where it really interferred with braking.  ABS is now smoothly integrated into the braking system such that it improves emergency braking, for some, significantly, since even experienced riders may hit the rear brake in a panic too hard and down she goes.

Spring for the ABS.  The downside is a little more money (so what you're spending a heapful anyways) and weight (so what's a few more pounds on the Concours?).  The upside is improved safety and emergency braking confidence.

[GTS_Rider]

...For many here they face far more PANIC situations than I do. I do not commute to work, and I seldom ride in URBAN areas. My trips are planned to  use secondary "low traffic" roads.( perhaps that is why I have only had two "close encounters" in the last six years. If I rode Expressways or commuted on my bike I would probably make a different decision.) ...

Ok, I see your point. I can't see where you ride from your profile, but I lane-split the most insane sections of L.A. freeways (ok, they're actually all insane, I'm refering to the most traveled, 405/10 and 405/101 intersections). I actually don't do it so much anymore, but I used to put down 1,200 miles a month. In anycase, I can see we're miles apart as far as potential for an ABS Save. Also, even in lane-splitting mode it's more about diving out of the way and screwing on the throttle than it is about 'panic braking'....

Like I said, ABS has never saved me, nor has it ever fooked me. If I ever do get a save I'm guessing it will be cross town traffic where some jackass pulls a left in front of me or shoots out from a sidestreet into my path with no warning, and not Frwy traffic where everyone is moving in the same direction.

Hey, motorcycling is a gamble itself. There's a ton of ways you can crash where abs would not do shit for you (don't make me list them, but I've done them all ). I'm just from the camp that believes abs *can* save your arse, and otherwise under normal brake operation, you'd never even know it was there.

[r2t2]

I too have been riding for 30+ years... And I love the ABS. I don't ride like the ABS allows me to be sloppy, but I ride like I normally do. I find that in most normal and "near" panic situations, the ABS is non-intrusive. And yes it saved me... In a sand covered road then jinked to the right and then became a very steep hill. It caught me unaware and the monkey on my back made me grab a fistful of brake. The ABS kept the front brake from locking and saved me from the lowside that would have undoubtedly followed. So far, ABS - 1... Monkey - 0...