Guzzi mess up on the Stelvio in Europe.

[Guzzipat]

The Stelvio is now available in most of Europe, bikes arrived in the UK last week. Initial reports are good, but Guzzi have shot themselves in the foot with a stupid decision, to delay production of the ABS version. It will not be available till late this year or early 2009, at least one dealer has already lost two sales, people debating between the Stelvio and BMW GS, went for the BMW because it was available now with ABS.
I want a Stelvio, not for any off road capability but because I think that an upright riding position will be better for my old knees. A combination of soccer playing and bike riding (and falling off) has left them decidedly dodgy. I also want switchable ABS, so now I have to wait till Guzzi decide to produce that model. I am not a happy bunny, being a Guzzi fan is close to masochism at times.

[farmer fred]

Man, if I were in the market, I'd pay extra to get one without ABS.

[kendenton]

I'm holding out for a Stelvio's that not so ugly  .  I luuuv Guzzi's, but the snout on that thing is worse than my Multistrada!

[atadaskew]

I'm holding out for that 4V engine to come to the US!
Whyyyyyyy do they keep me waiting?
 

[jed]

I'm holding out for that 4V engine to come to the US!
Whyyyyyyy do they keep me waiting?
 

Cause the dollar is tanking and imports for us folks get more expensiver and the margin for them Italian folks gets smaller per unit sold here.

I like the Stelvio myself.  Good job Guzzi!

[atadaskew]

Cause the dollar is tanking and imports for us folks get more expensiver and the margin for them Italian folks gets smaller per unit sold here.

BS Sir!  Ducati doesn't seem to have any problems bringing over the good stuff.  Lemme check.. yup, they're made in Italy too!

[jed]

BS Sir!  Ducati doesn't seem to have any problems bringing over the good stuff.  Lemme check.. yup, they're made in Italy too!

I'll bet we see their prices start to creep up too before long!  And I'm lusting for an 848!!!

[squeezer]

BS Sir!  Ducati doesn't seem to have any problems bringing over the good stuff.  Lemme check.. yup, they're made in Italy too!

Ever looked up Ducati's balance sheet?  I love the bikes, but that's not a company you'd want to use as a role model for how to run a business.

[atypical1]

Ever looked up Ducati's balance sheet?  I love the bikes, but that's not a company you'd want to use as a role model for how to run a business.

They have actually done pretty well lately. It is hard for a company like Ducati or MG who only make bikes (and niche market ones at that) to do as well as Yamaha, Honda, etc. The "Big 4" all make lawnmowers, cars, vibrators, etc which allow them to make bikes really cheaply. In fact they can be loss leaders on some of their products without making any kind of impact. Sportbikes are a really, really small market for motorcycles which means it is hard for anyone to get rich simply from their sales.

But, they can all learn from HD.

james

[falcofred]

Ever looked up Ducati's balance sheet?  I love the bikes, but that's not a company you'd want to use as a role model for how to run a business.
[/quote]

Hey, Ducati does pretty well for a racing team that sells motorcycles to support their racing efforts

[atadaskew]

Focus people, we are talkin' bout Guzzi here!  Where is my 4V?!!

[Guzzipat]

BS Sir!  Ducati doesn't seem to have any problems bringing over the good stuff.  Lemme check.. yup, they're made in Italy too!

After geography, you might check on production figures. Ducati are much bigger, Guzzi is currently producing a little over 10,000 bikes a year. Compared to Harley's 300,000. Guzzi are a small company, you can't compare their operation to much bigger rivals.The supply problems are largely because the popularity of the new models is outstripping the production.
America get the models last because it is a small market for Guzzi, Italy, Germany, Netherlands and the UK all sell more, so they get the bikes first.

[st ryder]

Ever looked up Ducati's balance sheet?  I love the bikes, but that's not a company you'd want to use as a role model for how to run a business.

For a company that's not a role model for good business, it always seems to have a lot of business savvy investors interested in buying it up. The Ontario Hospital Retirement fund, one would guess, is laden with fiduciary responsibilities, and are heavily into Ducati stock, and now want to be part of the privatisation buy out. Ducati has a lot of desirable business qualities going for it, regardless of its balance books, which in 2007 were very good, like its products.

[st ryder]

The Stelvio is now available in most of Europe, bikes arrived in the UK last week. Initial reports are good, but Guzzi have shot themselves in the foot with a stupid decision, to delay production of the ABS version. It will not be available till late this year or early 2009, at least one dealer has already lost two sales, people debating between the Stelvio and BMW GS, went for the BMW because it was available now with ABS.
I want a Stelvio, not for any off road capability but because I think that an upright riding position will be better for my old knees. A combination of soccer playing and bike riding (and falling off) has left them decidedly dodgy. I also want switchable ABS, so now I have to wait till Guzzi decide to produce that model. I am not a happy bunny, being a Guzzi fan is close to masochism at times.

So, you're not going AV riding? AFAIK, ABS is bad on gravel/sand etc. as it extends stopping distance. If that story about two prospective buyers going to BMW because the goose doesn't have ABS is true, they weren't that interested in the first place IMO. Why "settle" for a trite GS, when you can have a Guzzi?  

[atadaskew]

Guzzi is small but they are owned by the Piaggio group who are huge.  I would have thought that the Piaggio investment would have expanded production and quickened models to market by now.
Any news on when the 4V motor is going to make it to the Norge?

[Guzzipat]

So, you're not going AV riding? AFAIK, ABS is bad on gravel/sand etc. as it extends stopping distance. If that story about two prospective buyers going to BMW because the goose doesn't have ABS is true, they weren't that interested in the first place IMO. Why "settle" for a trite GS, when you can have a Guzzi?  

The ABS on the Stelvio (and the Norge) is switchable. If it was a choice between always on ABS, or none ,I would choose none.  I don't see any issue or disadvantage with ABS that can be switched off.
 
The two people who enquired about Stelvios were interested enough to ride their existing BMW's 50 miles to a Guzzi dealer. They were looking at replacing them with Stelvios but wanted ABS.

[DFH]

The two people who enquired about Stelvios were interested enough to ride their existing BMW's 50 miles to a Guzzi dealer. They were looking at replacing them with Stelvios but wanted ABS.

50 miles..... man that shows commitment. At least for a pair of poms.

I can see it now, riding in formation through the early spring lanes, all kitted out in matching adventure riding kit, smiling knowingly at each other as they share the rugged experience of all terrain touring, riding over the mini-roundabouts with gay abandon.......  

Guzzi have not messed up. They have got demos to dealers in time for people to ride them as your season approaches, make a purchasing decision and place a deposit. If Guzzi had held back the bikes until a third party supplier got there act together to supply an optional extra then that would have been a mess up. No demos means no sales.

So if you really want a Stelvio and are not just having a whinge, ride the non ABS demo to see if it rides as good as you want it to, check to see if it soothes you creaky knees and provides the comfort you need... then place a deposit on an ABS model.

DFH

[st ryder]

The ABS on the Stelvio (and the Norge) is switchable. If it was a choice between always on ABS, or none ,I would choose none.  I don't see any issue or disadvantage with ABS that can be switched off.
 
The two people who enquired about Stelvios were interested enough to ride their existing BMW's 50 miles to a Guzzi dealer. They were looking at replacing them with Stelvios but wanted ABS.

Ducati's ABS on the now extinct ST series is also able to be turned-off if the rider wants more control for sportier riding. I wasn't aware the ABS on the GS is also able to be, in BMW terminology, "depowered."

[Guzzipat]

50 miles..... man that shows commitment. At least for a pair of poms.

I can see it now, riding in formation through the early spring lanes, all kitted out in matching adventure riding kit, smiling knowingly at each other as they share the rugged experience of all terrain touring, riding over the mini-roundabouts with gay abandon.......  

Guzzi have not messed up. They have got demos to dealers in time for people to ride them as your season approaches, make a purchasing decision and place a deposit. If Guzzi had held back the bikes until a third party supplier got there act together to supply an optional extra then that would have been a mess up. No demos means no sales.

So if you really want a Stelvio and are not just having a whinge, ride the non ABS demo to see if it rides as good as you want it to, check to see if it soothes you creaky knees and provides the comfort you need... then place a deposit on an ABS model.

DFH

You are real big on stereotypes aren't you, painting a picture of people you have never met and know nothing about.
As for the preaching, I have been riding Guzzi's for 12 years and bikes for 49 years, I have learned a little. The test ride on the Stelvio was booked 2 weeks ago before one came into the country, so you kind advice is superfluous. Not surprising as it was based on assumptions not facts. I know how to buy bikes.

 Guzzi didn't need to wait for any third party supplier to "get their act together", the Brenbo units were already available and were already supplied with the Norge, all that is required is a simple computer adjustment. That is Guzzi's responsibility not Brembos. So again your assumptions were wrong.

[DFH]

You are real big on stereotypes aren't you, painting a picture of people you have never met and know nothing about.....

and

It will not be available till late this year or early 2009, at least one dealer has already lost two sales, people debating between the Stelvio and BMW GS, went for the BMW because it was available now with ABS.

You were part of the above debate, were you? Know for a fact they were going to buy a Stelvio and have evidence they actually have bought a GS because of the ABS availability?  Or are you painting a picture of people you have never met and know nothing about yourself?

 

Guzzi didn't need to wait for any third party supplier to "get their act together", the Brenbo units were already available and were already supplied with the Norge, all that is required is a simple computer adjustment. That is Guzzi's responsibility not Brembos. So again your assumptions were wrong.

How do you know its a computer issue?

And my real question is, why such a negative post in the first place.
What would be much more interesting is a post of your actual test ride experiences, especially in light of your vast and unique experience..

DFH

[Guzzipat]

and



You were part of the above debate, were you? Know for a fact they were going to buy a Stelvio and have evidence they actually have bought a GS because of the ABS availability?  Or are you painting a picture of people you have never met and know nothing about yourself?

 

How do you know its a computer issue?


DFH

I have never met the riders involved, the information comes from the dealer, who I have known for over 20 years.

How do I know it is a computer issue ? Because I know that ABS is already fitted to the Norge, there are no delivery issues from, brembo. The reason for lack of ABS models, I was told, is that they don't sell well on the Italian market, which is 30% of Guzzi sales, so they decided to delay the ABS launch and concentrate on the standard models.

Why a negative report ? Because I love Guzzis and think the Stelvio is going to be a big seller. I think holding back on the ABS version was dumb and will cost them sales. I was also pissed off because I wanted a Stelvio for a summer tour, now it will be 2009 before I get the ABS version. My plans for that year involve flying and borrowing a bike, so it also means I won't get to do a lot of riding on it when I do buy it. When you are informed by Guzzi that there will be an ABS version and base your plans on that, then they change their minds. In the circumstances I have every right to be negative about that decision.

I will do a report when I get the test ride, it was due last Thursday but was cancelled because of registration delays. I don't have the time for a long test ride now for a couple of weeks, I want at least 4 hrs on the bike. The report may or may not be on this forum. If it is a negative report I will put it somewhere else, you don't seem to be able to handle any criticism of Guzzi.

As for your snide comments about my "vast and unique experience" It is long, but hardly unique, in terms of off road riding it is very small.
 Why a simple criticism of Guzzi should cause such an over the top reaction from you, I don't know. Don't you think you may have overreacted just a tad ? Guzzi aren't infallible, nor are they beyond criticism, nor am I some sort of idiot who goes round deliberately slagging off the manufacturer of my own bike for no reason.

 

[DFH]

I have never met the riders involved, the information comes from the dealer, who I have known for over 20 years.

So... I cannot have a little fun with stereotypes to try to raise a smile on the collective Guzzi crowd because I will commit the sin of

painting a picture of people you have never met and know nothing about.

somehow its OK to commit the same sin to 'dis the business decisions made by the people at Guzzi....    

How do I know it is a computer issue ? Because I know that ABS is already fitted to the Norge, there are no delivery issues from, brembo. The reason for lack of ABS models, I was told, is that they don't sell well on the Italian market, which is 30% of Guzzi sales, so they decided to delay the ABS launch and concentrate on the standard models.

Who told you? Someone who is close to the decision making and production scheduling process....? Is it not possible that Guzzi, like all other bike builders big and small, builds in batches. Is it not possible that ABS Norge production was completed 6 months ago, that Guzzi have been building 8V Grisos since then. Is it not possible that in that intervening period that the supplier of one of the components of the ABS system cannot supply Guzzi until the second Stelvio batch? Do you know for a fact that your scenario is true? Or did you just cobble together a series of assumptions based on half truths and published them on the 'net to bolster your self importance.

Why a negative report ? Because I love Guzzis and think the Stelvio is going to be a big seller. I think holding back on the ABS version was dumb and will cost them sales. I was also pissed off because I wanted a Stelvio for a summer tour, now it will be 2009 before I get the ABS version. My plans for that year involve flying and borrowing a bike, so it also means I won't get to do a lot of riding on it when I do buy it. When you are informed by Guzzi that there will be an ABS version and base your plans on that, then they change their minds. In the circumstances I have every right to be negative about that decision.

So let be get this straight... because someone who may or may not have the real information about the delivery schedule Guzzi has for the ABS Stelvio tells you a story that does not dovetail with your summer holiday plans then its time hop on the 'net and tell the world how badly things have turned out.... have a look at the problems Triumph Street Triple 675 buyers in the UK are having. People are waiting 6 to 9 months for delivery after paying a deposit And I get slagged for perpetuating cultural stereotypes..  

As for your snide comments about my "vast and unique experience" It is long, but hardly unique, in terms of off road riding it is very small.

... just pointing out the irony of getting into a dick swinging contest about age and experience on a Guzzi list

I will do a report when I get the test ride, i The report may or may not be on this forum. If it is a negative report I will put it somewhere else, you don't seem to be able to handle any criticism of Guzzi.

Oh get over yourself... honest first hand impressions are always welcome. The rest of the baggage I can do without.



DFH
 

[Guzzipat]

So... I cannot have a little fun with stereotypes to try to raise a smile on the collective Guzzi crowd because I will commit the sin of  somehow its OK to commit the same sin to 'dis the business decisions made by the people at Guzzi....  

DFH
 

I will make no further comment on your posts on this issue, it must be very boring for others. You seem to have got your knickers in a twist about something or other, I don't really care what.

[DFH]

I will make no further comment on your posts on this issue, it must be very boring for others. You seem to have got your knickers in a twist about something or other, I don't really care what.

Thank you for taking the time to comment on your desire not to comment... and an extra thank you for kicking it all off and engaging us all for days in a dialogue you did not care about...

DFH  

[Durangoman]

No ABS and no heated grips,,,, whats up MG?

[sagerat]

Given you can get heated grips on the Norge and the Breva, you'd think that would be a no brainer for the Stelvio.

Guzzipat - Take a deep breath.  Looking forward to your Stelvio review as it's always fun to read about Guzzi test rides, good, bad, or indifferent.