Yamaha dealer says FZ1 is a slug.

[Kawboy]

I stopped in at the yamaha dealer to ask if they ordered any FZ1's. One of the staff told me he advised the owner not to get any because it's too slow. This guy rides a ZRX1200 and said when he rode the 06 FZ1 last year he was completely underwhelmed by it's performance and told me I probably wouldn't be happy with it. When I asked him if he wound it out he admitted that being a new bike he didn't want to push it too far up the rev range. He went on to tell me it's not even close to being an R1 motor. All the reviews I've read of the FZ1 say it's plenty fast with power to spare. Is this guy trying to con me into an R1 because he's got one ordered or did he really not even ride the FZ1 like he claims? I know they had one last summer because I sat on it the same day they were sending it to another dealer. I was surprised at this guys comments because I've never heard anyone describe the FZ1 as a "slug".

[garry]

I demo'd a 2006 and wasn't impressed with the motor, but it was a nice enough bike overall. Don't think I'd buy one after riding one though. Seemed to be lacking grunt for a holligan bike. No real chance to wring it out on an official demo ride, but if I wanted to wring a bike out, I'd just ride my Kawi 636. The R1 doesn't have the grunt of the other superbikes and needs to spin some revs to make silly power. I'm sure it's plenty fast if you keep the motor spinning.

[Tropical FJR]

Stock FZ-1's have a FI problem, and most of the power is too high in the rev range.

They can be made to go quite well with a few mods.

[Kawboy]

I demo'd a 2006 and wasn't impressed with the motor, but it was a nice enough bike overall. Don't think I'd buy one after riding one though. Seemed to be lacking grunt for a holligan bike. No real chance to wring it out on an official demo ride, but if I wanted to wring a bike out, I'd just ride my Kawi 636. The R1 doesn't have the grunt of the other superbikes and needs to spin some revs to make silly power. I'm sure it's plenty fast if you keep the motor spinning.

My guess is he kept it in the lower rpm range and didn't really see what it was capable of. I traded in a 636 last spring and really miss it.

[R Doug]

So far, I have 600 miles on my 07 and I'm loving it.  Before the purchase, I knew I could always put lower gearing on it to keep it in the powerband.  But, so far, all is good.  

To me, the engine starts to come alive over 4.5k and really scares the crap out of you around 6k or 7k.  

[MisterSmooth]

Too slow??  

The bike's not slow at all.  120 bhp?  You can scare yourself silly anytime.  The rider might be slow.  

[EffJay]

I stopped in at the yamaha dealer to ask if they ordered any FZ1's. One of the staff told me he advised the owner not to get any because it's too slow. This guy rides a ZRX1200 ...

Sounds like a bad case of "my bike is the best," or maybe a dealer that just wants to sell what's already on order.

My personal ride is an R1, but I have a good friend who's a serious track rat, who bought an '06 FZ-1 last year.  She can't say enough good about it.  A former Ducati racer, I'll take her word over that of a moto salesman any day.  

A salesman's agenda often isn't the same as a customer's.  No big surprise there.

[Grad]

I can't comment on the new FZs, but my '04 is anything but a slug. It has a LOT more balls than any 600 I have ever been on and isn't too far off the liter bikes.

[bluesurf]

I can't comment on the new FZs, but my '04 is anything but a slug. It has a LOT more balls than any 600 I have ever been on and isn't too far off the liter bikes.

'04's are completely different machines than the '06's & '07's.

I had an '06, and after a gearing change, throttle wire tightening (but not too much), and power commander w/light mapping tweaks then it still had sufficient snatchy fueling issues that I wasn't comfortable really pushing it hard, so it's now gone from the garage.  I understand that Yammie redid, with success this time, the stock FI mapping on the '07 FZ-1's.

It sounds like the salesman rode a stock '06 and didn't push it...no surprise, then, that he wasn't aware of the bike & engines real behavior characteristics.

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/

[Hickey]

There is a fix out there for the fuel injection on the '06 FZ1.  Ivan's Performance Products http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/index.htm has a little black box that can be spliced into the control wires that cures the abrupt on-off throttle response and adds some HP to the midrange of the FZ1.

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60222
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61228
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60004
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59881
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56628

Supposedly the '07 model has improved fuel injection straight from the factory.  Yamaha should have gotten it right the first time, but at least there is a fix for the '06 model year.

As to the bike being a dog.  By 4000 RPMs the bike is producing around 60 ft-lbs of torque at the rear wheel.  Torque climbs to a peak of about 70 ft-lbs near 8000 RPMs.  The bike revs all the way to 12,000 RPMs producing peak power of around 120 HP or more.  All from a bike that costs less than $10,000 and weighs less than 450 lbs, ready to ride.  Doesn't sound like a dog to me.  

[bluesurf]

There is a fix out there for the fuel injection on the '06 FZ1.  Ivan's Performance Products http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/index.htm has a little black box that can be spliced into the control wires that cures the abrupt on-off throttle response and adds some HP to the midrange of the FZ1.

Sure, and I could've paid George Dean another $250-300 to custom map the power commander, but at a certain point, when the manufacturer has obviously f'd up and isn't making it right through a service remapping bulletin, then enough chasing is enough.

Great bike when dialed, but not at any cost...especially with the lack of aftermarket support.  I rolled the dice, enjoyed the bike for ~8 dry months, but it just wasn't a keeper.  Sounds like the '07, with Givi bits now available and improved stock mapping, is closer to the mark/acceptable for a modern-day bike in its class.

re: the power delivery curve, then I've never been a I4 600cc rider, but 70 ft-lbs of torque just doesn't get it done for me unless it's delivered from a good bit lower down than 8K rpm, or in the R1 case two-thirds of the way through the range.

[Red FZ1]

I would agree about the agenda issue- I had an 02 FZ1 but my 06 is so much better in handling, and feel I do not miss the low end grunt. I have played with my 06FZ1 and have got some great results- I spent some time thinking about the Ivan FCE, I even called and talked to him. The 1st thing he told me  was not to post a picture of the FCE, if I bought one. I think that is a fair request, so I went and looked, and sure enough some guy posted one. I work at a Yamaha shop so I do have the luxury of tearing into mine after work, so after looking at the picture, I went at it. here is what I have done so far

1. I replaced the FZ1 velocity stacks with R1 velocity stacks. Graves makes a kit that  costs 150 bucks. The stock version for the FZ1 are tall and these shorter R1 stacks, really help the bike in the upper RPM. I also have the Leo Vince Pipe- I also disconnected the O2 sensor

2. I cut the air dam and the snorkel out of the air box to help it breathe. That also cuts the air temperature down some and the temp sensor is showing about a 10-15 degree drop in the air box when riding

3. I went to the diagnostic mode, and moved my Primary TPS to read 18. My A tech at work says the reading can be between 15-18. the higher the number the richer it is.

4. I decided to to look at the secondary TPS, and it was moved all the way off, so I moved it the same amount I moved the Primary TPS, about a 32nd of an inch. I rode the FZ for about 200 miles and went back in and moved it another 32nd of an inch, and on the second ride, the throttle response was even better. Even less of a jerky throttle, and the bike feels even quicker.

5. After all of that I re-synced the Throttle bodies. My number 1 and 4 TB were off big time. On my 3rd test ride the bike seemed quicker, and even was pulling the front wheel off the pavement in 3rd gear. These quick changes have helped mine. I also used the shops Co monitor, and the bike is spot on.

This bike has the potential to be a monster- I just think it will take some time for folks to get in there and play with it some. That is half the fun of it. IMHO

[FJRmgm]

the major motorcycle mags all dissed the FZ1 because of the lack of low end punch so it's not somebody dreaming.

[Baz]

Slow you say?

Hmmm. Go here & click on the FZ-1 fly by video..

http://www.holeshot.com/videos/

[Kawboy]

Slow you say?

Hmmm. Go here & click on the FZ-1 fly by video..

http://www.holeshot.com/videos/

Sure didn't look slow there. I think he just doesn't want to have to get one from another dealer so would rather I buy an R1 which I don't want. Nice bike but I'm getting too old to assume the position.

[bluesurf]

I would agree about the agenda issue- I had an 02 FZ1 but my 06 is so much better in handling, and feel I do not miss the low end grunt. I have played with my 06FZ1 and have got some great results- I spent some time thinking about the Ivan FCE, I even called and talked to him. The 1st thing he told me  was not to post a picture of the FCE, if I bought one. I think that is a fair request, so I went and looked, and sure enough some guy posted one. I work at a Yamaha shop so I do have the luxury of tearing into mine after work, so after looking at the picture, I went at it. here is what I have done so far

1. I replaced the FZ1 velocity stacks with R1 velocity stacks. Graves makes a kit that  costs 150 bucks. The stock version for the FZ1 are tall and these shorter R1 stacks, really help the bike in the upper RPM. I also have the Leo Vince Pipe- I also disconnected the O2 sensor

2. I cut the air dam and the snorkel out of the air box to help it breathe. That also cuts the air temperature down some and the temp sensor is showing about a 10-15 degree drop in the air box when riding

3. I went to the diagnostic mode, and moved my Primary TPS to read 18. My A tech at work says the reading can be between 15-18. the higher the number the richer it is.

4. I decided to to look at the secondary TPS, and it was moved all the way off, so I moved it the same amount I moved the Primary TPS, about a 32nd of an inch. I rode the FZ for about 200 miles and went back in and moved it another 32nd of an inch, and on the second ride, the throttle response was even better. Even less of a jerky throttle, and the bike feels even quicker.

5. After all of that I re-synced the Throttle bodies. My number 1 and 4 TB were off big time. On my 3rd test ride the bike seemed quicker, and even was pulling the front wheel off the pavement in 3rd gear. These quick changes have helped mine. I also used the shops Co monitor, and the bike is spot on.

This bike has the potential to be a monster- I just think it will take some time for folks to get in there and play with it some. That is half the fun of it. IMHO

Nice work!  There were other considerations for my selling of the FZ-1, but there's no doubt that it can be one of the most comfortable railers out there.  Someone on the FZ board fitted R1 front suspenders to one, in addition to a few of the things that you have, and just loves the bike now.

[Mookie]

I thought the snatchiness was caused by the ECU shutting down the injectors at closed throttle, then when the throttle is reopened all the fuel that got stuck in there surges out.  I'm pretty sure the Ivans box eliminates that.  

[bluesurf]

Slow you say?

Hmmm. Go here & click on the FZ-1 fly by video..

http://www.holeshot.com/videos/

Cool vid, but not really representative of what's being discussed here I think.  I can't quite get a clear still shot, but the description mentions the bike being jetted, as in carburated.  That would mean that the bike is a Gen 1, and not the FI Gen 2 that the '06 & '07's represent.  The Gen 1 FZ-1's have more low-end out of the box, and even more with the jet kit (and unconstricted pipes.)

Also, the engine is already wound up in that vid.  The thing that most people complain about, as they do/did with the '04-'05 R1's (I had an '04) is that there's a dearth of low-end grunt from a stock setup.  This low-end grunt is what a lot of people equate with "fast" from a street-riding perspective...the bikes, both of them, certainly open up like a banshee from about 7-7.5K rpm on up.

[Red FZ1]

I am pretty sure Ivan's FCE works great- and no doubt even do a better job than what I did. My guess is that the FCE affects the voltage going into the TPS's. And when you adjust the timing on those- you also effect the voltage. The big difference is he knows the exact voltage to make it perfect. He really knows his stuff. I have to go by seat of the pants, and a service manual for reference. I am having a ball working on this bike, and learning a ton of good information from folks in forums and trial and error. I am only out the time it takes to get the bike apart and back together again.

[chornbe]

I stopped in at the yamaha dealer to ask if they ordered any FZ1's. One of the staff told me he advised the owner not to get any because it's too slow. This guy rides a ZRX1200 and said when he rode the 06 FZ1 last year he was completely underwhelmed by it's performance and told me I probably wouldn't be happy with it. When I asked him if he wound it out he admitted that being a new bike he didn't want to push it too far up the rev range. He went on to tell me it's not even close to being an R1 motor. All the reviews I've read of the FZ1 say it's plenty fast with power to spare. Is this guy trying to con me into an R1 because he's got one ordered or did he really not even ride the FZ1 like he claims? I know they had one last summer because I sat on it the same day they were sending it to another dealer. I was surprised at this guys comments because I've never heard anyone describe the FZ1 as a "slug".

Slug. That's funny. He's an idiot.

[hobbes]

Slug. That's funny. He's an idiot.

+1    

[EffJay]

1. I replaced the FZ1 velocity stacks with R1 velocity stacks. Graves makes a kit that  costs 150 bucks. The stock version for the FZ1 are tall and these shorter R1 stacks, really help the bike in the upper RPM. I also have the Leo Vince Pipe- I also disconnected the O2 sensor...

This part surprises me.  You didn't want your ECU to know if it's getting the air/fuel mixture right?

[bluesurf]

This part surprises me.  You didn't want your ECU to know if it's getting the air/fuel mixture right?

Correct.  The ECU, as programmed by the factory, is only getting the a/f mixture "right" to satisfy EPA testing.

[Red FZ1]

Effjay is right- also - the ECU and O2 sensor is part of a closed loop system- so no matter what you do to the TPS to adjust for fuel mixture- the O2 sensor will read the exhaust, and send a signal to the ECU to "lean" it up back to spec.

[UPSMAN]

The Owner of my local shop has an 06 FZ1 and has put a Graves slipon, Power Commander, and Velocity stacks. It was then put on the dyno and read 147hp at the rear wheel!!!
Its no slug!!!

[ctfz1]

I ride with a guy owns 03 ZRX1200 and 05 FZ1. He felt the 05 needed a jet kit or one tooth down on countershaft sprocket to match ZRX. 06-07 FZ1 has less low end (more top end), people are dropping one and two teeth.  See yamahafz1oa.com for "in depth" discussion. roughly 01-05 fz 125 rwhp 80 lb-ft 06-07 fz 135 rwhp 70 lb-ft zrx 115 rwhp 85 lb-ft . from memory.

[Red FZ1]

Ivan's say 157 at the rear wheel is possible- and I think mine is at about 140-145 I agree no slug here! 157 at the rear wheel is nipping at the R1

[garry]

The Owner of my local shop has an 06 FZ1 and has put a Graves slipon, Power Commander, and Velocity stacks. It was then put on the dyno and read 147hp at the rear wheel!!!
Its no slug!!!

The original post was talking about low end grunt, not peak horsepower. It'd be nice to see that dyno curve compared to stock for the region under 6K RPM. Maybe there is some significant gain there too. Or not.

[R Doug]

True... HP doesn't always convert to ft. lbs... the stuff you can feel.  

Garry, we'll have to swap seats soon.  I wanna try out the Strom and you'll have to try out the FZ when you can open it up more.  

[Joey Stalin]

Slow you say?

Hmmm. Go here & click on the FZ-1 fly by video..

http://www.holeshot.com/videos/

Besides being the wrong generation FZ1 than the one being discussed here, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be impressed? I think most bikes are capable of doing a buck.

[Baz]

Guys:

The thing to remember that the new FZ-1 just has to be ridden differently than the old FZ-1. It still has loads of HP & loads of torque, but you get there much higher up the RPM range. Does this make it a bad bike?

Ride a Gixer around town at 2500 rpm and you won't be getting any whiplash either.

[Mookie]

Guys:

The thing to remember that the new FZ-1 just has to be ridden differently than the old FZ-1. It still has loads of HP & loads of torque, but you get there much higher up the RPM range. Does this make it a bad bike?

Ride a Gixer around town at 2500 rpm and you won't be getting any whiplash either.

True dat.  And it's not like it's major surgery to change sprocket sizes either

[Red FZ1]

good point about being ridden differently. This bike likes- no LOVES to rev, ride it like that and you are good to go. I had an 02 FZ1, and it was great- to a point. But the new generation FZ has way more potential, especially in the handling alone. Most of my changes were more toward the revving side- )hence the R1 velocity stacks) the rest of the changes came from working on R1's at our shop. It is great to see other folks embracing the bike and trying to make it better instead of beating it up.

[R Doug]

It is great to see other folks embracing the bike and trying to make it better instead of beating it up.

True.  And, the bike is pretty much a bargin for what you get (IMHO), that you don't feel so bad spending money on some accessories.  Right now, I like it the way it is.  My only mods to accommodate how I'll be using it is a new seat and a hard luggage.  Sprockets may be next, but I'm in no rush.  

[Yamadog]

Good to see someone else enjoys the ride! I got so tired of the piling on that I just about quit posting. I love mine except for the seat; haven't solved the luggage issue yet, but considering ordering the hard side from Yam Canada.

[Red FZ1]

I just got a 16T front sprocket in the shop today- I plan on trying it out- I will let you know about it.

[Baz]

Oh and I liked the ST options available here in Canada for the FZ-1.

This bike fully equiped as seen including a topcase came to $16000.00 (Yikes) I just paid $16,200.00 for a new 2006 FJR A.

[chornbe]

Yeah, but is something that revs high as normal operating procedure really something you want to run a 5000 mile x-country trip on? Wouldn't that add to fatigue and buzz on long trips? (that's a genuine question, not beating up on the bike - all my long distance riding has been on bikes designed for it or on low-revvers, GL1100, CB750, FJR, V-twin cruiser, etc).

[R Doug]

For me, I'll take a little buzziness anyday w/ the trade off being able to rail in twisties.  

My Dad has taken his Ultra Classic, which is supposed to be designed for these things, across country.  I've ridden his bike and would take my FZ on that trip any day over the UC.

[garry]

I *really* like the way the lower fairing completes the look of the bike (in the photo a few posts earlier). The hard luggage looks great too. I wonder if people in the US can order that stuff from a Canadian dealer?

[Riceman]

And here I was thinking of adding an 06 to my garage???  THis thread has made me question my idea??  I loved, and I mean LOVED my 01....so I shouldnt get an 06 unless I want to put time and money into it.  Is that the gist of this thread?

[R Doug]

Garry, it appears you can purchase the parts from a dealer north of the boarder.  But the problem is, it ain't cheap.

Here's what I posted in the "Official FZ1 Thread,"

Yea, the Canadian web site has a bit more farkles for the FZ than the US site.  

Thanks for the heads up.

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/accessories/accessory_list.php?model=2137&category=79&group=M

EDIT:  Yamaha wants $720 for a top case, $250 for a rear carrier rack, and $623 for side cases!?  That's a total of $1593 CD or $1,370 USD.  

I can get two Givi side cases, a top case, and all the mounting hardware for about $925 USD from TwistedThrottle.com.  

Screw the factory parts.  

Riceman, I personally don't have any issues w/ my 07 FZ.  The ONLY two mods I'm looking to make right now are hard luggage and maybe a corbin seat for longer trips.  But, to each their own, eh?  

[Joey Stalin]

I don't understand why they don't offer that stuff for sale in the US. I mean, what do they think this bike is for? NOT riding long distances? What is so hard about offering the luggage for sale? Someone tell me a good reason.

[garry]

And here I was thinking of adding an 06 to my garage???  THis thread has made me question my idea??  I loved, and I mean LOVED my 01....so I shouldnt get an 06 unless I want to put time and money into it.  Is that the gist of this thread?

No. I think the gist of the thread is that the new gen FZ-1 makes its power higher in the RPM range (compared to the first gen), which makes sense given its recent R1 lineage. Ride one and see if you like it. It's a fast, capable bike, but with a different personality than the first gen motor.

[nanbil]

My hope is that Yamaha put the 07 R1 engine in the 08 FZ1—then we would have more low and mid level grunt.

[Schneegz]

My hope is that Yamaha put the 07 R1 engine in the 08 FZ1—then we would have more low and mid level grunt.

Unfortunately, that probably won't happen until the next generational redesign.

[1moreroad]

Yeah, but is something that revs high as normal operating procedure really something you want to run a 5000 mile x-country trip on? Wouldn't that add to fatigue and buzz on long trips? (that's a genuine question, not beating up on the bike - all my long distance riding has been on bikes designed for it or on low-revvers, GL1100, CB750, FJR, V-twin cruiser, etc).

Depends.  A small displacement engine will probably have smaller amplitude vibes so they may not be as noticeable.  Motorcyclist said that the Buells have a sweet spot around 75 mph where the engineers' managed to cancel out most vibes (on a paint shaker of an engine, no less).

Also depends on the bar weights, how thick/dense the rubber foot pegs and grips are, and the rider's sensitivity to the vibes.  A friend's hands always fell asleep within 100 miles on his Triumph Sprint, so he would have to stop every 75 miles or so for 10 minutes.  Not the kind of behavior you would want if you wanted to ride cross country in spite of having a bike that supposedly would be an excellent choice for such a trip.  BMW-K's RS -- supposedly an excllent long distance machine -- made my right hip ache after about an hour of sitting on the bike.

What about your old F4i?  How bad were the vibes?

[chornbe]

I doubt I'd have taken it across the country. It was buttery smooth for the rides I did, but I didn't do 10-hour saddle days, either. *shrugs* Honestly, dunno.

[Riceman]

No. I think the gist of the thread is that the new gen FZ-1 makes its power higher in the RPM range (compared to the first gen), which makes sense given its recent R1 lineage. Ride one and see if you like it. It's a fast, capable bike, but with a different personality than the first gen motor.

My 01 was quick, comfortable, and IMO, pretty nice looking.  I'm not necessarilly a speed freak, but I do like quick, and some of the talk on this thread does worry me.  Also, I'm gonna have to find a way to "sell" the wife on a second bike...and I'd hate to get it home and have immediate buyers remorse???

[Baz]

I *really* like the way the lower fairing completes the look of the bike (in the photo a few posts earlier). The hard luggage looks great too. I wonder if people in the US can order that stuff from a Canadian dealer?

There is no doubt that you could purchase this stuff off of a Canadian dealer. Call any dealers parts department & have your visa ready.

The only times I have ever had any trouble getting stuff out of the U.S. was in the instance of people like Givi, where they have given exculisive rights to a Canadian dealer. The U.S. dealers agree not to compete, and won't ship to Canada, but I have lots of friends in the U.S. & just have things shipped to their place, and either I pick it up, or have them bring it across the border. In the case of larger stuff, I get hit with the Canadian goods & service tax, but as the prices in the U.S. tend to be a little cheaper, it all works out.

As Yamaha does not seem to be making the stuff widely available in the U.S. it's also possible that you may be able to buy the parts special order from a U.S. dealer.

[Hickey]

The way I look at it the FZ is mellow in the bottom half of the RPM range and exciting in the upper half.  No, it won't have the tree stump pulling torque of a big V-twin all the time, but power is never more than a shift or two away.

Bikes are a compromise.  The FZ uses a R1 engine since it was easily available to Yamaha, light, and potentially powerful.  But an engine designed from the onset to produce big HP and a lot of revs isn't also going to have bottomless pull in the lower RPMs.  There are plenty of bikes out there that do offer mountains of low end torque.  So it isn't like we don't have options.

To those that can live with the FZ compromises and are willing to rev it to get maximum performance, the overall package is a great set of features at a reasonable price.  But like many things in life, it is better to love the bike for what it is and understand what it isn't, than be disappointed with a poorly considered purchase.

[FJRmgm]

+1 to this ---> "The problem is not that its a 'slug' or even slow, but that the torque and power comes high in the rev range. "

Friend of mine just bought a new FZ1 and I talked to him yesterday and his complaint is the bike is lame and weak below 9,000 rpms - not what he wanted at all.

He wanted low-end torque and thought all liter bikes, except for the sportbikes, had it.

He is so disappointed in the bike he is seriously thinking of selling it.

[nanbil]

Yamaha tried to distance the FZ1 from the FJR by making it a super-sport standard rather than a do everything standard.  I would love to see their sales figures; my best guess is that sales figures for the new FZ1 are way below expectations.  I love to look of the new bike, but because I like some low-end torque can never see myself buying one.

 

[EffJay]

Yamaha tried to distance the FZ1 from the FJR by making it a super-sport standard rather than a do everything standard.  I would love to see their sales figures; my best guess is that sales figures for the new FZ1 are way below expectations.  I love to look of the new bike, but because I like some low-end torque can never see myself buying one.

I guess I just don't understand this "lack of torque" thing.  I ride an R1 when I'm 1-up, and I don't notice any "lack of torque."  Seems to me, it's just a matter of bein' in the right gear.  And theFZ1 is "detuned," to provide even more midrange torque than the R1.  

[chornbe]

I guess I just don't understand this "lack of torque" thing.  I ride an R1 when I'm 1-up, and I don't notice any "lack of torque."  Seems to me, it's just a matter of bein' in the right gear.  And theFZ1 is "detuned," to provide even more midrange torque than the R1.  

Yeah, but compared to something like the FJR or the Gen-1 FZ-1, lots of folks think it's lacking in the low end. Coming from a torquey cruiser, the FJR is pretty phenomenal when it comes to slamming the torque down on the street.

[EffJay]

Yeah, but compared to something like the FJR or the Gen-1 FZ-1, lots of folks think it's lacking in the low end. Coming from a torquey cruiser, the FJR is pretty phenomenal when it comes to slamming the torque down on the street.

Just different strokes.  My other bike is an FJR, and I've owned a big V-twin, so I appreciate what you're sayin'.  

I wouldn't put a tractor engine into a naked sport bike, though, and still expect it to be sporty.  I'd give it a sportbike engine, and learn to ride it the way it was meant to be ridden.  Seems like it's a matter of mismatched expectations.

[nanbil]

... learn to ride it the way it was meant to be ridden.  Seems like it's a matter of mismatched expectations.

Yes, I agree.  I also believe that is why the new FZ1 has been panned by the motorcycle press—it's a street bike with an engine that needs to be spun at high revs to have power. I believe that most street ridders would rather have power in the lower to middle of the rpm range than only in the upper range. I think that Yamaha reallky blew it on this bike.  Too bad, because I really wanted one.

[XLR8]

I had a 03 and I test rode an 06.

The second gen FZ1 is a fantastic motorbike for those who know how to shift gears and wind it up a bit. Really, that's all you have to do and it doesn't take much. Is it really so difficult? I'd easily own another FZ1 again but I like my FJR so much I'll probably just keep buying those now and wear em out.

[Thor]

I remember a time, not that many years ago, when every sportbike sucked ass in stock form.  You could get 15 to 25 horsepower and move the torque curve almost anywhere you wanted it without spending a lot of money.

Now we get pissed when it is a few hp/torque down at low rpms.

Stop reading, start riding, and look at the aftermarket.  I think we are going to see more and more bikes coming from the factories this way to meet emissions and sound.

The aftermarket just has to readjust and get us back to solving problems and satisfying needs instead of just providing bling and race parts.

[JamesG]

The problem with that is that where you used to only need some jets and a slip on pipe to make a noticable difference, now with EFI and EXUP style exhaust vavles you have to spend hundreds on Power Commanders and full systems...

[XLR8]

The problem with that is that where you used to only need some jets and a slip on pipe to make a noticable difference, now with EFI and EXUP style exhaust vavles you have to spend hundreds on Power Commanders and full systems...

But it's so cool when my neighbor stops by and I have a laptop connected to my FJR.

[Joey Stalin]

It's quite simple. A new model should appeal to the owners of the old model. That is your customer base. The old model had low end torque. They liked that. The new model does not have low end torque. They don't like that. Sure you can get some horsepower if you rev it high, but the customers don't want that.

I can't think of ever hearing a complaint about the first gen being down on power.

[JamesG]

There was some bitching about it not making as much HP as the R1.  
Yamaha fixed that.
Now they are whining because its too much like the R1.
 

[mcoyote]

Well, FWIW, the R1 engine does need some rev to get going -- it has a 13k RPM redline, after all. Even if the FZ1 is a "torque-oriented" derivative, I can imagine that it needs so twist to be in its own.

[FJRmgm]

most people want that powerful feel that only low-end torque can supply and if the doesn't have it, it doesn't do it for the rider.

Sounds like the new FZ1 doesn't have it.  At least according to my friend who just bought one.

[dleclerc]

Is it just me or for the last 3 years or so every magazine, and a large percentage of riders have been saying, begging, pledding that they wanted a manufacturer to build standard/naked truly based off of a Racereplica, by simply stripping it and making it more comfortable but keeping the engine as is.

Now that Yamaha has done there is an uproar about low end power, when the bike is design to be comfortable enough to tour yet, be a hayday in the canyons and right on your buddies 1000cc Repli Racer rear end.

I hoping to buy one this spring, cut windshield down, but a corbin seat and sport bags to put on some serious miles, and a bigger sproket to get a little more pick up down low, and I'll have the perfect bike for what I'm looking.

So I guess as said before different tastes. Yamaha has the FJR if you want the more touring oriented huge torque down low, that can still be fun in the twisties. If you want something closer to a sport bike you have the FZ1, and can still tour.

[R Doug]

OK, so I made it out yesterday and today and put about 250 miles on my FZ1.  The roads are still a mess around here with cyders all over the place, so I was just happy to be out.  

For the little time I made it out today, I just putted around (behind traffic mostly) in 3rd gear at 30 mph.  At each straight I had a chance to pass, I rolled on the gas in 3rd from 30 mph and easily reached 100 after one shift up to 4th.  I don't know about the journalists who have rode this thing, but it has plenty of get up and go for me.  I'm talking about 30 mph in 3rd with the engine at 3k rpm.  All I did was roll on the throttle, and she took off like a bat out of hell.

I'm not trying to defend my bike, per se.  This is just an observation from a new owner of one.  Heck, when I purchased the thing, I totalled expected it to be a dog in the low RPM range.  

[spitfiremk21]

Give Ivan a call. Slap on the goodies he recommends and VIOLA!! This bike is now nasty. You can thank the tree huggers for the way the stock bike runs. I have read other forums and other bikes such as the ZX14 have to get rid of the choking crap that they have to put on them to keep the tree huggers happy.

[EffJay]

For the little time I made it out today, I just putted around (behind traffic mostly) in 3rd gear at 30 mph.  At each straight I had a chance to pass, I rolled on the gas in 3rd from 30 mph and easily reached 100 after one shift up to 4th.  I don't know about the journalists who have rode this thing, but it has plenty of get up and go for me.  I'm talking about 30 mph in 3rd with the engine at 3k rpm.  All I did was roll on the throttle, and she took off like a bat out of hell.

It's not common knowledge, but the '07 R1 has two ignition maps.  It's to provide more control in first and second gear, and balls-to-the-wall from third gear on up.  Here's how it's explained in the current issue of Motorcycle Consumer News:

"Ignition curves in the first two gears have been slightly retarded to lessen abrupt power delivery.  Once shifted into third gear, the second map deploys, and maximum power becomes available across the rpm range from third through sixth gears. While performing top speed tests, this became very apparent as the R1 would rev to redline in third and fourth gears as quickly as it spanned first and second, despite the increasing loads and adroodynamic drag coefficients."

My experience with my own '07 R1 agrees with this.  In first and second, you can crank it wide open, and still stay in control.  This is especially nice coming out of a tight first- or second-gear curve.  Starting in third, gear, it goes nuts when you twist the grip.  Think "traction control."

If the new FZ1 is set up the same way, this might be what the unknowing are calling a problem.  Instead, it reflects the R1's refinement as a road racer.  That may be why you perceived no lack of torque in 3rd gear.

[Baz]

Give Ivan a call. Slap on the goodies he recommends and VIOLA!! This bike is now nasty. You can thank the tree huggers for the way the stock bike runs. I have read other forums and other bikes such as the ZX14 have to get rid of the choking crap that they have to put on them to keep the tree huggers happy.

Just remember that the choking crap they put on them is to keep the rest of us from choking!

Soon we will be legislated off the road. You know emissions tests on motorcycles are coming.