07 vs 08 Ulysses

[GS1100GK]

Folks, I need your help with a tough decision.

I'm really close to buying an 08 XB12X.  Dealer wants full retail which I'm not inclined to pay.  Here is the deal on that one:

$12,005 bike
$-225 freight =11780 bike
$1041.17 accessories - top and side cases, and tall windshield at 15% off
$407.12 - title, tag, lien filing fees and install labor (labor at 15% off)
$775.74 sales tax for MD
$14,004.03 grand total

He has a leftover 07 with full bags (Buell promo is giving bags away free) and $1500 off sticker.  Here is the deal on the 07:

$10,495 - after $1500 off
$407.12 - title, tag, lien filing fees and install labor (labor at 15% off)
$654.12 - sales tax for MD
$11,556 - grand total

So the difference is $2.447.78 or so.  The 08 has heated grips ($240 option for the 07), larger diameter forks with smaller turning radius, larger oil cooler, larger crank pin with larger oil pump, and 300 additional RPM.  Also, the bike should never lose timing with a magnetic ignition pickup vs a manual one.  

The larger oil pump and larger oil cooler interest me since my thinking is the bike will run cooler because of those upgrades.  

So, what is the opinion?  Is it worth getting the 08 or the 07.  By the way, money is always an object, however I can still afford the 08.

[garry]

I would shop around for a more motivated Buell dealer and buy an 08 at a discount. I'll bet you can find the bike at $1000 off and still get the accessories at 15% off too. Can't do much about title/plate/tax fees.

[GS1100GK]

I would shop around for a more motivated Buell dealer and buy an 08 at a discount. I'll bet you can find the bike at $1000 off and still get the accessories at 15% off too. Can't do much about title/plate/tax fees.

So, do you feel the upgrades to the 08 from the 07 warrant spending the extra for an 08 then?

[littlefield]

To tell you the truth, none of the improvements would make the bike that much more fun for me to ride. You'll have to set the TPS on the 07 occasionally but if you like tinkering with bikes it's kind of fun. Having a bigger crank pin, better oil pump and higher red line is nice but how much are you going to be riding it that hard? The 08 also has a lower alternator output.

[atadaskew]

So, do you feel the upgrades to the 08 from the 07 warrant spending the extra for an 08 then?

There's a reason Buell made those upgrades!  I would opt for the 08 BUT I'd shop around to get at least some discount.  Trying to get you to pay full MSRP on the 08 is just the dealer's ploy to move the 07.  Tell him you have no interest in the 07 but want some $$ off the 08.  Once he knows that, either he makes a sale or you find a shop that will.  Just my opinion.

[garry]

So, do you feel the upgrades to the 08 from the 07 warrant spending the extra for an 08 then?

Given a choice, I'd rather have an 08 than an 07. I think Buell made some worthy upgrades. How much those upgrades are worth to you is subjective. I'm a sucker for a screaming deal on a leftover, but I'm thinking you have lots of room to narrow the gap by getting a dealer to negotiate a bit on the price of a 2008.

[GS1100GK]

There's a reason Buell made those upgrades!  I would opt for the 08 BUT I'd shop around to get at least some discount.  Trying to get you to pay full MSRP on the 08 is just the dealer's ploy to move the 07.  Tell him you have no interest in the 07 but want some $$ off the 08.  Once he knows that, either he makes a sale or you find a shop that will.  Just my opinion.

I've priced the same package at another dealer and they would take $500 off the Uly but it is a bit farther away from my house.  I'm going to try and work him a little harder (have cash in hand and see if he takes it usually works.)  

[GS1100GK]

Given a choice, I'd rather have an 08 than an 07. I think Buell made some worthy upgrades. How much those upgrades are worth to you is subjective. I'm a sucker for a screaming deal on a leftover, but I'm thinking you have lots of room to narrow the gap by getting a dealer to negotiate a bit on the price of a 2008.

I've been reading up on this bike and a big complaint is the heat coming from under your right leg plus the noisy cooling fan.  The 08 comes with plastic plugs (will fit an 06-07 as well for $21) to keep the heat at bay and I could tell the difference when test riding the 08 and 07.  But, I can't help but think the bigger oil cooler and larger capacity oil pump will keep the bike cooler and reduce the times the fan comes on when riding.  Also less heat should translate to greater engine life and reduce the time the fan comes on when the bike is turned off.  That is at least what I'm thinking.

[Kootenanny]

Take this for what it's worth...

I had a similar decision when I bought a "leftover" 03 XB9R in January 05.  I could have had an 05 if I'd wanted...and there were quite a few upgrades made between 03 and 05 (including different final drive, larger diameter fork tubes, improved neutral sensor, different kickstand with no interlock, lowered passenger pegs, longer rear-view mirror stalks, and I'm sure many more that I can't remember offhand).

I've been totally happy with my 03, and I'd do it again!  Sure, the later bikes may be "better," but...I'm loving my original year Firebolt!  

[Brad1445]

I vote get the 08

[Rogue]

If you can afford the newer one, get it!  The upgrades are worth it.

If money is tight, the '07 is the better deal.  Good luck.  

[atypical1]

Miles and I had this exact same conversation last night. Tell us what you decide...

I don't know if the upgrades are that worth it but you aren't talking about a huge $$$ difference. I never noticed a problem with the turning radius but never did any tight u-turns. How much cooler would the bike run? That would be a big deal as the 07 that we tested was an oven. That might make it worth it as the rumor is that taping the pipes is a bear.

Good luck on your decision.
james

[GS1100GK]

Folks, I've posted the same thread on Badweatherbikes.com and much to my surprise the 08 gets much poorer gas mileage than the 07's.  Not sure why, but it appears to be the case.  With a bike with only a 4.4 gallon tank the difference between 36 mpg and 45 mpg becomes huge.

[Thunderbox]

There's a reason Buell made those upgrades!  I would opt for the 08 BUT I'd shop around to get at least some discount.  Trying to get you to pay full MSRP on the 08 is just the dealer's ploy to move the 07.  Tell him you have no interest in the 07 but want some $$ off the 08.  Once he knows that, either he makes a sale or you find a shop that will.  Just my opinion.

The whole reason the engine got all those upgrades was because they increased the redline and needed to upgrade the oiling performance and crank pins.  The oil cooler wa sincreased because the bike can be ridden at higher RPMs for extended periods only because the redline has been increased.  There has never been any engine problem with the XB Buells so these were not put in to correct any deficiencies.  I don't know of any complaint in these areas prior to the 08s being released.  They were done to add strength when they increased the RPM period.

The turning radius improvement is a good improvement but would I pay 2500.00 for it, no.

[sprint EX]

I'm thinking of buying a used 06, that said I would go with the 08, but come on its a Buell, no one pays sticker. At least not at the two dealers near me.

[atadaskew]

  There has never been any engine problem with the XB Buells so these were not put in to correct any deficiencies.  I don't know of any complaint in these areas prior to the 08s being released.  They were done to add strength when they increased the RPM period.  

I'm sorry, I did not mean to suggest there were problems.  Just that with the new refinements if you will, changes needed to be made.  Like as you pointed out, with the changes to the rev limit.

[atadaskew]

A bit off topic GS1000K, but I thought a while back you were looking at the Guzzi Norge?

[GS1100GK]

A bit off topic GS1000K, but I thought a while back you were looking at the Guzzi Norge?

You are exactly right!  Problem is paying $17K is a bit over my budget right now for that machine.  Lately, I've also been feeling the need to do a little fire road riding as well and the Norge would not be the best choice for that.  The XB12X would be ideal in that environment for me.  Good memory atadaskew!

[atadaskew]

Hmm, the worse gas mileage is weird for the 08.  The engine is the same, apart from a raised redline.  I'd guess the timing is the same. Maybe the map for the FI is different?  But if it was leaner it would theoretically get better mileage.
Is it just heresay or have people run the 08 back to back with the 07?  Different riding styles, tyre pressures, temperatures, quality of gas all affect fuel consumption.  Also a brand new tight motor is going to behave differently than a broken in one.

[Rincewind]

Just out of curiosity, did you consider the new Ulysses XT model?  I just finished reading the latest Rider magazine, which features the XT. The XT MSRP w/luggage was less than what you were quoted for the 08 X.  Regarding the fuel economy, they listed about 37 mpg and just over 170 mile range.

I hadn't heard that the 07's are coming with free luggage - that to me sounds like a great deal.  And if it is true that the 07's have better fuel economy, I would definitely choose that over an extra 300 RPM in the powerband.  I'm sure the 7100rpm redline is nice as the powerband can seem short, but I don't think 300 is a huge increase.

I don't know where you are in MD, but two dealers in Southern PA to consider calling would be Lancaster HD/Buell and Iron Valley HD/Buell.  

[Towjam]

I've owned an '04 12R, an '07 12R, and '07 12Ss and now my '08 XT. I can tell you without a doubt the '08 has much less fan time. In fact, it rarely comes on until you shut down.  As far as the radiant heat, the '08 does have the little side "heat shields" but your right thigh still gets cooked from the heat coming up between the airbox and seat.

Also, the accessory sockets no longer function with the key in the "park" position. The key must be in the "on" position and the kill switch set to "run". My dealer confirmed this was a change in the design but it's not accurately updated in the owners manual.

As far as the fueling, I don't notice quite as much as a stumble coming off idle, but I don't feel much difference between the '07 and '08 EFI.

just my $02  (and worth almost every penny)

[Bueller]

08

Lots of stuff not stated here.  Oil pump on a bolt mount instead o a nut that solves an inherent mid life weakness, hollow cams with oil injection.  ECM senses at something like 100x greater frequency.

Hit the rev limiter a few times (in low gears of course) and you'll kill for the higher revs.

The reduced fan time is not so good.  It is only because 'O8 has 40F higher temp before the fan cuts in because of polution laws.  The high front guard on the Uly blocks air so you need a right side scoop 06, 07 or 08 but definitely 08

[GS1100GK]

Just out of curiosity, did you consider the new Ulysses XT model?  I just finished reading the latest Rider magazine, which features the XT. The XT MSRP w/luggage was less than what you were quoted for the 08 X.  Regarding the fuel economy, they listed about 37 mpg and just over 170 mile range.

I hadn't heard that the 07's are coming with free luggage - that to me sounds like a great deal.  And if it is true that the 07's have better fuel economy, I would definitely choose that over an extra 300 RPM in the powerband.  I'm sure the 7100rpm redline is nice as the powerband can seem short, but I don't think 300 is a huge increase.

I don't know where you are in MD, but two dealers in Southern PA to consider calling would be Lancaster HD/Buell and Iron Valley HD/Buell.  

Rincewind, I did ride the XT and liked it a lot.  The extra versitility of being able to so semi-off road appeals to me so that is why I'm focusing on the X model instead.  

[GS1100GK]

Still debating.  However, took the Mrs. GS1100GK down to the dealer for the Goldie Locks test of the back seat.  We didn't get an opportunity to go for a test ride together, but I was mildly surprised that she was comfortable on the back seat.  Mrs. GS1100GK is 5'8" with long legs and she was worried about the leg room and was afraid her knees would be high in the air.  After she got on the bike I could see that her knees were actually lower than her hips which according to her is a very good thing.  After dismounting she gave me the thumbs up for comfort .  Now, I need to get her on the back for a test ride since the next test is how much air she gets.  I'm hoping my torso will provide her some protection.    

[Oilhed]

08

Hit the rev limiter a few times (in low gears of course) and you'll kill for the higher revs.

What does that mean?

[Bueller]

What does that mean?

My '07 hits the soft rev limiter at about 6,800 rpm.  It's not hard to extend the revs a bit and find that I've hit it. It is an uncomfortable sensation particularly through a corner where upshifting is a difficult option.  At the rev limit it cuts the fuel (perhaps only to one cylinder) and it feels like a breakdown in spark.  The '08s have the limit at 7,100 which is a big difference.

[Thunderbox]

My '07 hits the soft rev limiter at about 6,800 rpm.  It's not hard to extend the revs a bit and find that I've hit it. It is an uncomfortable sensation particularly through a corner where upshifting is a difficult option.  At the rev limit it cuts the fuel (perhaps only to one cylinder) and it feels like a breakdown in spark.  The '08s have the limit at 7,100 which is a big difference.

Really 300 rpms is a big difference, somehow I can't see it.  I seldom ever see redline the engine pulls so good from any RPM I can't see it as a big advantage.

[Bueller]

It is almost 5%.  It's 10 kph in top gear.  I'd take the 300 rpm if I could get it.

[Thunderbox]

The extra rpm would mean nothing as the torque drops drastically at that RPM on the Thunderstorm engine.  Both the new and the old engine have the same HP so the top speed is limited by that not RPM.  A simple gear change will do everything that extra 300 RPM will do.  I guess when you are talking to the guys who have other bikes 7100rpm sounds so much more than 6800rpm.

[Bueller]

The extra rpm would mean nothing as the torque drops drastically at that RPM on the Thunderstorm engine.  Both the new and the old engine have the same HP so the top speed is limited by that not RPM.  A simple gear change will do everything that extra 300 RPM will do.  I guess when you are talking to the guys who have other bikes 7100rpm sounds so much more than 6800rpm.

I used  to think the same way.  The HP may be the same. but the '08s in the club have better horses.  The 08 has slightly more peak torque.

[GS1100GK]

I used  to think the same way.  The HP may be the same. but the '08s in the club have better horses.  The 08 has slightly more peak torque.

The question is...is the increased torque noticable?

[Bueller]

The question is...is the increased torque noticable?

I think it is.  The '08s pull a little better.  

Does it matter?  Not a lot, but the '08 has a better motor - stronger, more reliable because of better oil distribution, and less maintenance - no timing and no TPS reset.

[GS1100GK]

I think it is.  The '08s pull a little better.  

Does it matter?  Not a lot, but the '08 has a better motor - stronger, more reliable because of better oil distribution, and less maintenance - no timing and no TPS reset.

I agree.

[Yankee Dog]

................. The 08 also has a lower alternator output.

How much lower?

Yankee Dog

[Thunderbox]

I used  to think the same way.  The HP may be the same. but the '08s in the club have better horses.  The 08 has slightly more peak torque.

So, I have to ask.  Why do you still have an 07 if you reccommend others get an 08.  Advice is so easy to give and dollars are so hard to part with.  You don;t even take your own advice.

[2DFlyer]

Take this for what it's worth...

I had a similar decision when I bought a "leftover" 03 XB9R in January 05.  I could have had an 05 if I'd wanted...and there were quite a few upgrades made between 03 and 05 (including different final drive, larger diameter fork tubes, improved neutral sensor, different kickstand with no interlock, lowered passenger pegs, longer rear-view mirror stalks, and I'm sure many more that I can't remember offhand).

I've been totally happy with my 03, and I'd do it again!  Sure, the later bikes may be "better," but...I'm loving my original year Firebolt!  

+1.  I'm with Koot here.  Maybe the question to ask here and at Badweb is if anyone who rides sanely is having problems with their older models that these upgrades would resolve.  Are you gonna flog an X bike the way you would an R?  Are you gonna worry about banging off the rev limiter all the time?  These are already like the best handling bikes ever so tweaks to suspension bits, while cool stuff, may not be that noticeable.  To me the most beneficial change here may be the larger oil cooler.  Anytime you can run cooler the better off the motor will be but you could probably upgrade the cooler.

I spent the day on an '06 X earlier this week.  I only got 240 miles, but was perfectly content the whole time under 6500 RPM.  Turning lock wasn't an issue even flippin uez.  46 MPG in mixed driving.  A little warmth on the right thigh that might be uncomfortable in stop and go if it were 15 degrees warmer outside.  

[Bueller]

So, I have to ask.  Why do you still have an 07 if you reccommend others get an 08.  Advice is so easy to give and dollars are so hard to part with.  You don;t even take your own advice.

Hadn't seen this.  

I don't change bikes every year is the reason.  When I bought my '07 there was no '08.  

I guess we're talking '09 now.  Hate black forks because of stone chips.  The rest of the black looks good.

[PSO]

GS1100K-What was the final decision?