Strange which bike question....

[1moreroad]

Okay, so if you wanted a good handling street bike capable of doing dirt and gravel roads, would you pick a Suz DRZ400SM or a Buell Ulysses?  These are numbered county roads with road signs and everything, but they have no pavement, only dirt with 0" - 3" of gravel along with occasional ruts (but not too many).  My sportbike does the hard packed dirt well enough but the front end gets really, really scary in gravel.  Besides weight, number of cylinders, and cost the Uly and the DRZ are darn near identical.  Seriously, the Buell maintenance and moderate (compared to, say, a Duc Hypermoto or any KTM) cost are attractive.

There is supposed to be a little off-roading and trail riding around here, but I have no one to ride with and no experience beyond mountain bikes, so I'll be putting that off for a while.

I could put either bike on the track once or twice a year and have enough fun with handling even though I will give up top speed compared to what I'm used to.  There is a kart track about 3 hours from here with open motard practice days for just $50 compared to $200+ for Barber days.  The Uly is much more tour-able which counts to me 2 - 3 times a year, but I read about where guys take their 400s and that looks like fun, too.  I can be on the TAT less than an hour after leaving my house.  DRZ-S wheels install right onto the SM.  I know the SM gives up less than 1.5" of suspension travel to the S.  I'll ride an SM and an S back to back if the dealer has both.

You can suggest a KLR or other 650 thumper, but I've ridden one just enough to put it on the bottom of my list without quite crossing it off completely.  The KLR had weird, generally uncomfortable vibes to me.  5 minutes on the DRZ might tell me the same thing, but I'm hoping smaller displacement = lower amplitude vibes.  I've also spent many, many hours knocking out bicycle centuries and hope that I can acclimate to a DRZ saddle.  The majority of my rides will be under 2 hours anyway.

I really have to stop trolling around message boards and find time to ride the dang things.  I had planned to put off the decision until after my July CO trip, but I could supposedly get a new, unregistered 2006 Uly with full hard luggage for $10k + TTL and some 0% financing deal before negotiating.

All ideas welcome.... (yeah, yeah WeeStrom -- I'll try to look at one at the same time as the DRZs if a salesman will let me take out three bikes for test rides)

[R.Markus]

If Krismark will let me take her  (well, hers after tomorrow) Uly out I'll let you know how it handles in the gravel.

You do realize the Uly and the DRZ are totally different bikes, right?

If you're going down to one bike and you still want to do parts of the TAT and road tour...the Buell will do that easily.

If you want to do a lot of shorter rides (like you said you were going to) and want a bike that may go a little further off road, plus do the TAT well than the DRZ might be a better option.

I say sell whatever you have now and get both.

[falcofred]

No comparison between these bikes.
The Buell is a street bike that will do some rough roads. It has a 17" front wheel which are the same diameter as your sport bike, so the front will be nervous in the gravel, but the higher and wider handlebars will make it easier to handle.
The DRZ SM also has 17" wheels and street tires which are not designed for gravel, but it's a much smaller machine. And also has wider bars.
The DRZ seat is not for long distances, not even comfortable for short rides, it's  a dirt bike saddle.
If you want a bike for the gravel, you need  a dual sport with a 21" front wheel. The DRZ400S is good for this, but the gearing limits it for any highway riding, a DR600 or Honda XL650 would be a good choice, readily available used, and get great mileage.

[R.Markus]

Yeah, I forgot about the 17 inch fronts on both bikes.

Get a standard DRZ. You can find pretty street oriented tires for a 21 / 18 combination, but your choices are extremely limited for knobs on 17 wheels.

[DogBoy]

I love my DRZ400Sm but I wouldn't have it as my only bike. Too narrow focus. That said, its the bike I ride most of the time. I'm not even sure when I rode the YZF last. Maybe in January?


Dual sports are cheap to own/insure/maintain and those SM track days are super cheap. Any reason you don't want two bikes?

[1moreroad]

Thanks for the responses.  At the end of the day I'll probably wind up with a DRZ400S because it will be the cheapest of all bikes I've considered.   That SM with the USD forks and a more settled street ride just makes me 

No comparison between these bikes.
The Buell is a street bike that will do some rough roads. It has a 17" front wheel which are the same diameter as your sport bike, so the front will be nervous in the gravel, but the higher and wider handlebars will make it easier to handle.
The DRZ SM also has 17" wheels and street tires which are not designed for gravel, but it's a much smaller machine. And also has wider bars.

See, they're not so much different with respect to gravel roads.   I understand what you're saying, but with my background (all sportbikes) and my anticipated riding (right now all roads, some of which happen to be gravel for 20 miles), either bike might fit my needs.  I'm sure I can pick up the Uly if I drop it since I've picked up my 600 with a full tank of gas set up for a 2 week tour.  As R.Markus says, the SM might be the better bike seeing as how I'm anticipating 1 - 2 hour rides once or twice a week with mostly street connected by gravel stretches instead of 10 - 12 hour rides once a month like I used to do in Los Angeles.  No harm in switching to an S if I find myself covering more and more hard core dirt, although for a newbie like me, 10" of suspension travel on the SM will work for a while.  On dirt, even the SM will outride my capabilities for a while.

Get a standard DRZ. You can find pretty street oriented tires for a 21 / 18 combination, but your choices are extremely limited for knobs on 17 wheels.

I've done enough looking a lot at thumpertalk, a little on BARF and advrider, and over at ebay and Motostrano and some of the on-line store sites to look into wheels and tires.  A used set of 21"/18" S wheels runs about $300-ish and a nice Excel/Talon set new runs $1100 with tires.  A 310 mm rotor for the S wheels runs about $100 new.  Change the front sprocket to a 14, run a 41 tooth sprocket on the rear SM wheel and a 44 tooth sprocket on the S wheels.  Same chain will fit both.  The swap takes 30 minutes -- which sounds reasonable given my experience pulling the wheels off my sportbike.  Many folks also run Distanzias on the SM wheels for commuting so that may be another option.

$500 and I have the superior street bike and still a decent gravel road bike.  The SM costs $500 more out of the gate, too, of course.  I keep reading about underpowered dual sport brakes, though, so the SM has an edge with the 310 mm rotor.  The brakes on the KLR I rode were almost scary, so any brake upgrade is a good thing, IMO.

The DRZ seat is not for long distances, not even comfortable for short rides, it's  a dirt bike saddle.

The Uly popped up for just this reason.  Still do gravel roads (but lose any possibility of more serious off-roading) but maintain the ability to do long weekend rides out to the Ozarks and Smokies.  There are plenty of folks who do 300 miles a day on DRZs, so maybe it is an acquired taste?

If you want a bike for the gravel, you need  a dual sport with a 21" front wheel. The DRZ400S is good for this, but the gearing limits it for any highway riding, a DR600 or Honda XL650 would be a good choice, readily available used, and get great mileage.

I rode the KLR which is supposedly the smoothest of the big thumpers.  I didn't like the vibes.  Just like smaller displacement 600 I4s make less vibes than larger displacement 1000+ I4s, I'm hoping the same is true for the DRZ v. the KLR.  The DRZ is out depending on my opinion of the vibes.

I keep scanning Craigslist and Cycletrader for the Memphis area (please don't help since I probably won't pull the trigger for 2 months).  There are new 2006 and 2007 DRZs for just $400 - $500 more than private sellers want for their used bikes with a few thousand miles.  Private sellers seem to want premium prices for their bikes these days.  S's are listed for $4700 and SM's for $5300, almost $1000 off MSRP.  As an example, a neighbor showed me his DRZ200.  He wants almost $2000 for a bike with rust on the frame, forks with no damping, and dry rotted tires.  WTF?  He told me he bought it used 5 years ago for just over $2000 or something and has only put a few hundred miles on it (probably with the same fork oil and tires), so he wants what he paid for it.

Since I'm looking at the Uly, I should probably look at the Husqvarna TE610 like Mookie rode down to Mexico.  Originally the price put me off, since it is $7400 compared to DRZ400Ss advertised at $4700.  I know it's the better all around bike (except for those vibes), and Fletcher's Cycles is about 1.5 hour ride from here....

[1moreroad]

I love my DRZ400Sm but I wouldn't have it as my only bike. Too narrow focus. That said, its the bike I ride most of the time. I'm not even sure when I rode the YZF last. Maybe in January?

That's what killed the KLX250S in my mind, even though there is one sitting on a showroom about 6 miles from here.

The DRZ with the 3x3 mod and rejet has about the same power to weight ratio of my old EX500, so I'm thinking (hoping?) it will be enough.  Throw on a Clark tank + maybe $250 of protection, and it will go anywhere I'd be willing to go by myself for as long as I could ride.  With the police presence and the slower drivers around here, a bike with a supposedly vibration-free sweet spot at 65 mph would not be a bad thing.

On the KLR acceleration was not an issue even though it was very leisurely above 50 mph.  Vibes were just too big for me.  It is not quite crossed off my list, but it's close.

As usual, I'm looking for a single do-everything bike that probably doesn't really exist.

[DogBoy]

Mookie rode a Husky SM610 rather than the TE610 - although I'm sure there were many times he was wishing he had the TE610.

[1moreroad]

Mookie rode a Husky SM610 rather than the TE610 - although I'm sure there were many times he wishing he had the TE610.

Even better -- something about the SMs -- better handling/less weight than a 600, better riding position for gravel roads, some guy crazy enough to tour on one, top speed getting close to 100 mph is fast enough -- just makes me go    It probably wouldn't have been on my radar screen without Mookie's tour.

The fact that I can get 60 mpg, get lots of miles out of a Distanzia for commuting, get lower insurance costs on a newer bike (insurance on brand new DRZ400SM is 3/4 cost of insurance on a 7 year old ZX6R -- again, WTF?), and direct swap dirt tires if I ever want to try dirt riding is just icing on the cake.

[DogBoy]

BTW, I'll save Monsoon some keystrokes. Get an XRR. Its the best thing since sliced bread and does everything better than any other bike. EVAR!!!!


My DRZ has a full pipe and jet kit, 3x3, etc. I only get 40 mpg riding it pretty hard. I know some people report 50 or 55 but I've never done better than 40 mpg.  The bike is slow. Its got enough power to keep me entertained up to 70/75 mph but after that it really stops pulling. Mine is geared tall with a 39 tooth rear sprocket and is smooth at an indicated 75 mph and ten times smoother at all rpm than any two-stroke dirt bike in my limited experience with dirt bikes. However, it handles great. Its not stable. The bike moves around a bit, especially in 70mph+ sweepers, but still gives plenty of confidence and is very entertaining. I can't explain how it can be so slow and so much fun, it just is.

I've only ridden my DRZ for a few 200 miles days in the hills around here. Its more work than a regular street bike everywhere except the tightest canyons so 200 SM miles feels like 400 regular street bike miles to me. I just did 150 miles this morning without getting off the bike and I survived the seat just fine. Its not comfy but not unbearable. I would consider a seat upgrade for longer days.

[1moreroad]

BTW, I'll save Monsoon some keystrokes. Get an XRR. Its the best thing since sliced bread and does everything better than any other bike. EVAR!!!!

Even without a V4?

And I'm not plating an off-road DS, so no to the XRR.

My DRZ has a full pipe and jet kit, 3x3, etc. I only get 40 mpg riding it pretty hard. I know some people report 50 or 55 but I've never done better than 40 mpg...

Thanks for the review.

[Johnny Monsoon]

BTW, I'll save Monsoon some keystrokes. Get an XRR. Its the best thing since sliced bread and does everything better than any other bike. EVAR!!!!

A SM'd XRR is a badass ride (smoother than a KLR and lots more power).  A kicker-only may not be your thing though.  Honestly, I wouldn't recommend the XRR for you.

Honestly, the first bike that jumped to mind was a Versys.  As I continued to read, I modified my thought; I think a Ninja650 would be a great bike for you.  Really.  They do really, really well on gravel (and since you haven't really given me any reason to think that you are actually going to need extra travel in your suspension, I think it would suit you extremely well).  The geometry is nice and capable; it doesn't get squirrely on gravel like many street bikes do.  I think it is worth looking at.  Plus, it's also a really good street bike.

[JamesG]

Pray to the spirit of Soichiro Honda that the new Transalp comes to America?

[R.Markus]

I rode the Uly in the dirt a bit on Sunday. It's a LOT better than I thought it would be (and it has a ME880 rear on it  ). The riding position isn't as dirt oriented as my 640 (duh), but it is really close. It doesn't have much ground clearance, though.

[Albie]

Pray to the spirit of Soichiro Honda that the new Transalp comes to America?

Uh yeah, cause that's just what's needed here, another overweight, underpowered, pathetically dull Honda.  

[R.Markus]

Uh yeah, cause that's just what's needed here, another overweight, underpowered, pathetically dull Honda.  

Pretty much my opinion of the new Transalp when I see pics of it.

[2WheelTiger]

Uh yeah, cause that's just what's needed here, another overweight, underpowered, pathetically dull Honda.  

Can I have an AMEN my brotha?!?!?!

[1moreroad]

I've test sat a Uly and a KLX250S (not really on my list, but they had one at the local dealer).  Officially the Uly seat height is about 32", about the same as my sportbike.  The KLX250 is almost 35" with a lot more sag I'm sure.

Here's what I don't get -- I can barely tippy toe the Uly with both feet and it feels HEAVY not moving.  I can flat foot my sport bike, and I can easily get the balls of both feet down on either a KLR or the showroom KLX.  I can comfortably ride a KLR and pull up to stop lights or put a foot down in gravel no problem.

Is that other people's experience -- that a Uly feels taller and more top heavy than most dual sports or sportbikes in a parking lot setting?

[VIVID1]

These are numbered county roads with road signs and everything, but they have no pavement, only dirt with 0" - 3" of gravel along with occasional ruts (but not too many).  

The roads out by you had the deepest and largest gravel I have seen anywhere. At times it wasn't even that fun on my XT  




I vote for the DRZ if you want it for gravel and dirt  

[R.Markus]

I've test sat a Uly and a KLX250S (not really on my list, but they had one at the local dealer).  Officially the Uly seat height is about 32", about the same as my sportbike.  The KLX250 is almost 35" with a lot more sag I'm sure.

Here's what I don't get -- I can barely tippy toe the Uly with both feet and it feels HEAVY not moving.  I can flat foot my sport bike, and I can easily get the balls of both feet down on either a KLR or the showroom KLX.  I can comfortably ride a KLR and pull up to stop lights or put a foot down in gravel no problem.

Is that other people's experience -- that a Uly feels taller and more top heavy than most dual sports or sportbikes in a parking lot setting?

I didn't have that problem with the Buell...it may be because I'm used to the seat height of the KTM (which also has a wider seat than the KLX). I also didn't find the Buell very top heavy, but again, I've gotten used to a tall bike with a nearly 7 gallon gas tank.

The seat width is what you're experiencing with the Buell...it's wider, a lot wider, than the KLX seat. The extra width doesn't let your legs drop striaght down like ont he KLX.

Really...seat heights and other numbers on paperwork don't really mean much when test sitting on bikes. As you noticed, seat widths, factory sag (usually set too light), and weight (and how it carries it, i.e it's center of gravity) all play a big roll on what feels comfortable and what doesn't.