1125R In Person

[Rogue]

So my local dealer finally got an 1125R to stick around long enough on their showroom.

I was really surprised how this bike looks so much better in person than it does in pictures.  I didn't even notice the pods a few here seem obsessed about (any moment now Brad will post up his photo-chopped picture of an 1125R)    .   Up close and personal, the bike looks longer and lower.  The "Diamond Blue" finish on the perimeter frame, swingarm, and wheels look really nice.  It is something I have not seen before and it really looks good yet subtle.  It is a great contrast to the gloss black bodywork.  The fit and finish on the engine and dash were also very good.  No urine cups!  Instead, it has the VFR-like painted aluminum reservoirs for the clutch and brake fluids.  The triple clamp is the best I've seen in the minimalist theme within the sportbike world.  

The bike's riding position is definitely sporty but not extreme.  My Firebolt with the Helibar triple clamp is still more comfortable.  The bike is roomier in the seat than my Firebolt.  The upper fairing on the bike is pretty big and it just about covers everything from the waste up to the helmet.  I expect that fairing to provide class leading wind and weather protection.  Unfortunately, the size of that upper fairing made the bike's nose look huge especially up close.  It was like staring at a Hammer Head shark!  

That one particular model I sat on had spongy, long travel front brakes.  It felt like there was lots of air in the system.  I pointed it out to the young salesman and the prick didn't believe me, insisting it was normal.  I insisted in return that it was not and I told him to go feel the front brake lever on that Lightning next to him then tell me what is normal.  The guy changed the subject.  I also pointed out that the 1125R didn't do too well against the Ducati 848 in the latest Cycle World test.  Their 1125R exhibited Fuel Injection mapping issues.  I was surprised to hear the young salesman admit that early 1125R's left the factory with FI mapping issues and they simply download the latest mapping from Buell and that solves the problems.  I had BMW K1200S de ja vu as he was telling me this.

I didn't ride the bike as they were only offering it to serious buyers and I was not one of them.  I will test ride one someday.  I am quite impressed with the bike's looks and fit and finish.  Somedays, it may well be a replacement for my Firebolt.  However, I am disappointed with Buell by allowing 1125R's with FI issues to go out to the buying public AND press fleets.  Unless Buell does some major damage control and makes sure every bike sold has a proper FI mapping already downloaded to it, sales of their 1125R will flounder.  That would be ashame because Cycle World really liked the bike at the track and preferred it over the Ducati 848.  That's saying a lot.

[gtmg]

There is a new map out there and no bikes are supposed to be sold without it. If you actually read the article they were impressed with the 1125R except for stated electrical/mapping problems that this should solve. Big lead flag on Badweb about it.

[Rogue]

I read the whole article.  In fact, Buell techs admitted even more that a batch of 1125R's came out with bad stators and bad fuel pumps.

I think that the 1125R will be the beginning of more great things from Buell.  It is also what will shut the mouths of whining biotches who complain endlessly about the Firestorm motor of the XB.  The same whiners who then turn around and praise Guzzi's similarly "old fashioned" aircooled Vtwin.    Personally, I have no clue what these people are bitching at because I love the Firestorm engine and its personality and power delivery, especially its simplicity and low maintenance.  Although, having an extra 40 hp and even more revs definitely gives the 1125R the performance to at least stay with the competition.  And if the handling is as good as they say, the bike has a lot going for it.  Nevertheless, Buell should have gone to great pains and made sure the 1125R came out without ANY issues.  First impressions usually make or break a bike's popularity.  

[Brad1445]

lol, Rouge, thats not a photoshop picture I have posted, it's real.  It's just the angle that show just how on the cutting edge the styling is compared to others, in particular the Italian bikes.  Those wacky elves, gotta love'em.

For the record, I love the thought of owning a ROTAX engine with Buell handling. I dreamed of such a bike for years but yes even after 5 New Buells I dont think I could ever buy this one even as bad as I want it.  I can  handle Busa Ugly,  but not parts bin ugly.

[Bueller]

I found the front brake feel pretty soft as well Rogue.  It worked but was disconcerting.

[Sound Uly]

I must be one lucky SOB.  My 1125R has run perfect right from delivery in very early Jan. I am almost afraid to take it in for the remap afraid that it won't run as smooth.

This is somewhat the problem with a bike that is 'rushed' to market, and I do agree that it was rushed, in that it's almost a crap shoot whether you get one with problems or not.  I think the soft brake feel may be a trait of this bike.   I have asked the techs to take a look at it twice now and they come back with the same response "everything is good".  They work very well but take some getting used to for sure.

Unlike Brad, I like this bike because the styling IS ugly and controversial!    Oh, and it has unbelievable power and handling!

Cheers!

Ron

[atadaskew]

Holy crap Ron you own a BMW R12000GS!  Was that made special for you?
I read the test comparing the 848 to the 1125.  The 1125 makes a lot of powah (it is a much bigger motor than the 848), but they said that for racers the 848 is faster on the track, as borne out by Canet's times, while for normal peeps it would be the 1125, cuz it has more torque.
The 1125 did have a lot of reliability issues, as well as heat and vibe issues.  Think about it, if this factory prepped for the magazines bike runs like this, imagine how much worse the regular bikes are that customers get. Really seems to be a beta tester bike for now.
Personally I would never get a first year bike from any mfg, having suffered through that mistake once before with a dearly departed Suzuki.

[Sound Uly]

Holy crap Ron you own a BMW R12000GS!  Was that made special for you?

No but I sure have customized it on the rocks a few times. Cute!  I can't believe no one called me on that one sooner.  It's only been on my sig line that way for 5 or so months now.  

Fixed now though.    

[DannyZRC]

those lap times in the review were at the horse thief mile.

I humbly disagree with it being used to evaluate the relative racetrack performance of the 1125r and the 848.

[Kinger]

I rode the 1125 at the local dealer last weekend.  I liked the power and handling.  The bike I rode didn't appear to have any FI issues.

The dealer had put on an after market pipe, don't recall which one.  It was loud.  Not a bad loud, but piss your neighbors off at 6 a.m. loud.  I did like the slipper clutch.  Downshifts were really smooth.

The ride was aggressive, but comfortable.  Once used to the bike, I could ride it all day.

Now, put this motor in my S3 and I would be really happy! :Dp

[falcofred]

I attending a Buell Inside Pass track day at VIR on May 19th. I'll be on my Daytona 675, but 1125's will be available for demo rides on the track. It will be interesting to compare the 1125 big twin to the 675 high revving triple.

[Rogue]

The 1125 makes a lot of powah (it is a much bigger motor than the 848), but they said that for racers the 848 is faster on the track, as borne out by Canet's times, while for normal peeps it would be the 1125, cuz it has more torque.

They also said the 1125R was easier to ride fast at the track by none racers than the 848 is.  

[atypical1]

Yeah but Horse Thief Mile? Not exactly a suitable track for those bikes. Try Big Track or Streets and then evaluate them.

james

[atypical1]

No urine cups!  Instead, it has the VFR-like painted aluminum reservoirs for the clutch and brake fluids.  

You've officially become the Larry of "urine cups".  

james

[Rogue]

You've officially become the Larry of "urine cups".  

james

I don't have that many ignoring me......yet!  

[atadaskew]

They also said the 1125R was easier to ride fast at the track by none racers than the 848 is.  

Which is why I wrote "but they said that for racers the 848 is faster on the track, as borne out by Canet's times"

[Rogue]

You said the 1125R is easier to ride fast on the track by none racers because "it has more torque".  

The article said nothing of that sort.  It's just easier to ride fast by none racers.

Are you arguing for argument's sake?  

Goodnight.

[atadaskew]

?  If I was mistaken by adding the torque bit, then I stand corrected.  I just read the article in the store and then put it back!
I think that we can agree then what they said was that for racers the 848 gave better times, for non racers it was the Buell.
 
Dammit, now I'll have to buy that issue!

[Rogue]

Well the Ducati DID win the comparison.  

I knew that would happen.  The 1125R needs more work, probably another 6 mos or so of development time to iron out the rough spots.  I also think Buell needs to test side by side with Ducati's and BMW's because this is the market they compete it.  They're no longer just a niche competitor but now competing against big names.  Releasing a bike that is 80% complete is not an option.  Look what happened to the Firebolt....it took them another 2 years to get it completely right.

Having said that, I still like the bike's looks especially in person.  For some weird reason, it just looks better than the pictures suggest.

[atadaskew]

Having said that, I still like the bike's looks especially in person.  For some weird reason, it just looks better than the pictures suggest.

It does.  And I think it would look better in any other colour apart from the black.  A wikkid metallic orange or red would go great with that blue frame.  This is not a bike for wallflowers!  Give it paint to match it's performance!

Ok , so this is a sponsor bike, but still I think it looks better than the dowdy black:

[scott-sts]

If I bought an 1125R and had it suffer the problems noted in the only two reviews i've read, i'd be pretty pissed.
The 848/1125R comparisson is interesting.  One bike continues the tradition put in place by it's larger sibling and the other pretty much floundered.
IMO, the biggest reason Buell has had an uphill struggle pretty much since day one is the nagging little "Problems" that seem to come with reading evaluations and tests and from comments from Buell owners.  If the bikes worked perfectly (like 98% of all Japanese motorcycles) they would sell more motorcycles-period.  
It's not the Harley engine or dealer network-it's the nagging problems that prevent people from embracing the brand.    

[kevin_stevens]

If I bought an 1125R and had it suffer the problems noted in the only two reviews i've read, i'd be pretty pissed.
The 848/1125R comparisson is interesting.  One bike continues the tradition put in place by it's larger sibling and the other pretty much floundered.
IMO, the biggest reason Buell has had an uphill struggle pretty much since day one is the nagging little "Problems" that seem to come with reading evaluations and tests and from comments from Buell owners.  If the bikes worked perfectly (like 98% of all Japanese motorcycles) they would sell more motorcycles-period.  
It's not the Harley engine or dealer network-it's the nagging problems that prevent people from embracing the brand.    

I dunno, it's pretty much always been the Harley engine for me.

KeS

[atypical1]

I dunno, it's pretty much always been the Harley engine for me.

KeS

 

Me too.

james

[scott-sts]

OK, fine. But...
What if you never heard a negative thing about a Buell.  Nothing but positive reviews and never any mechanical issues.
Be honest...
Would you care as much that it has a Harley engine?

[DannyZRC]

about a year ago I was feeling excited about adding a sportier short haul bike to keep my GS and DR company.

I have a very high opinion of buell reliability, regardless of how well supported it is by fact I will say straight up that "I believe buell motorcycles and especially the XB series to be a fundamentally reliable motorcycle".

I test rode an STT, could definitely feel the buellness in the handling department and that zero lash belt drive, very good stuff.

but, despite the fact that I surprisingly found the 'harley shake' thing very cool and engaging at lights etc, that engine 100% killed any notion I had of acquiring an XB buell, a bike I was very prepared to like.

that's just my data point, ymmv

[Rogue]

When the Firebolt first came out in 2002, I just fell in the love with the bike's looks.  I promised myself I would get one someday.  However, the mixed reviews I read turned me off.  I say mixed because it was generally not liked in the US but it was well received in Europe.  The bike did have some early issues but it came mostly from the belt durability.  Although stories of unreliability were there, it had more stories of reliability from the powertrain.  However, it wasn't until 2006 when I finally got mine because at that point, the bike was fully developed.  

The bigger motor came out in '04.  The much improved tranny, lighter clutch, and 100k mile belt drive came in 2006 and that was enough to get me to buy the bike.  It also helped that my Hayabusa had accumulated lots of miles and needed to be replaced or kept for life.  Finally, I did get to test ride a Firebolt beforehand and all the negative reviews I read simply didn't manifest itself on the bike I rode.  In fact, I enjoyed the immediate power delivery.  I still do.  I try to put into words how intoxicating the bike is to ride but I've given up.  You either like it, or you don't.  If you like it, you will love it!  

After two years of ownership and 15k miles, I would have to join the ranks of owners who rave about the bike's overall reliability and durability.  I know that's not many miles on a bike.  But quite frankly, if this motorcycle is going to be unreliable, it would have done it a long time ago.  So far, only ONE bolt fell off during a ride.    It was my fault as I didn't put loctite during re-assembly of a moving pivot where the offending bolt fell out. But the bike has held together so far.  It has only seen the dealership once--for the TPS sensor reset.  That's it.

I think the 1125R will have the same reliability and durability of the Firebolt.  The teethig problems with the FI will get worked out in short order.  Buell isn't the first to have these kinds of problems with new model launches.  If I remember correctly, Yamaha, BMW, & Benelli has had similar issues with new bike model releases.  Unfortunately, these early problems won't help the bike's popularity among its enthusiasts.

[kevin_stevens]

OK, fine. But...
What if you never heard a negative thing about a Buell.  Nothing but positive reviews and never any mechanical issues.
Be honest...
Would you care as much that it has a Harley engine?

Yes.  Even understanding that it does get reasonable performance, that *type* of power delivery just turns me off.  I describe it as like driving an electric can opener.  "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr shift rrrrrrrrrrrrr"

I had a 1989 Z51 Corvette as an autocross car, with the torque-monster L98 350 small block in it.  Redlined at 4700 rpm, not much point in revving it above 4200.  It was an awesome race car - *the* C4 Corvette to have.  Hated driving the thing around on the street.  Rrrrrrrrrrrr shift rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  Coming from a LT1 Camaro with breathing mods and a 6300rpm redline that it bounced happily off of, I had to get rid of that L98 after one season.  Went to an LS1 C5 Corvette, happy again.

I *know* I'd be miserable with that Evo motor.  And every time the special rear cylinder PC cooling fan came on I'd think "what a cheap piece of crap hack job".  Sorry.  But now they've put a REAL motor in the Buell - well, I'm already registered for their demo track day at Willow Springs this November.

KeS

[Rogue]

I have a 1991 Corvette with the L98 350.  I think it redlines at 5500 RPM if I remember correctly (gotta check later).  The engine is hooked up to an autobox so shifting is a non-issue.  I modded it a bit--opened up airbox w/K&N, Corsa Cat-back exhaust.  Not that the engine weezed near redline but now that it breathes better, it easily revs up there and has a good top end hit.  Nothing like the LT1 or the LS1/2 though, but still great fun to drive.  Lots of torque off the line and tons of midrange for corner exits.  Plenty fast enough around here.  I got it up to an indicated 155 out in the desert one time.  The low redline never really bothers me.  

Back to bikes....if you're thinking the Buell 1125R is going to be like a Japanese bike, think again.  The engine has finger followers so it won't be as quiet as a directly actuated DOHC valvetrain.  I think it still has that cooling fan you speak of.  So I don't believe it will have the smoothness and polish of your ZX14.  But it won't be anywhere as crude as your V11 either.  Do you still have that bike?  

[kevin_stevens]

I have a 1991 Corvette with the L98 350.  I think it redlines at 5500 RPM if I remember correctly (gotta check later).  The engine is hooked up to an autobox so shifting is a non-issue.  I modded it a bit--opened up airbox w/K&N, Corsa Cat-back exhaust.  Not that the engine weezed near redline but now that it breathes better, it easily revs up there and has a good top end hit.  Nothing like the LT1 or the LS1/2 though, but still great fun to drive.  Lots of torque off the line and tons of midrange for corner exits.  Plenty fast enough around here.  I got it up to an indicated 155 out in the desert one time.  The low redline never really bothers me.  

Back to bikes....if you're thinking the Buell 1125R is going to be like a Japanese bike, think again.  The engine has finger followers so it won't be as quiet as a directly actuated DOHC valvetrain.  I think it still has that cooling fan you speak of.  So I don't believe it will have the smoothness and polish of your ZX14.  But it won't be anywhere as crude as your V11 either.  Do you still have that bike?  

I don't expect it to be a Japanese bike.  I expect it to have a powerband.    I traded the V11 for a 748 track bike.  BTW - you made some remark earlier in this thread about the Firebolt having a similar type of engine response to the Guzzi - not mine, anyway.  Mine really started at 5K and pulled strongly to wherever the rev limiter was around 8.75 or 9K (tach never kept up - Moto Guzzi put the "vague" in Veglia!).  If it had died off at 7K or so I'd have hated it too.

Not sure why a watercooled bike would have a rear cylinder fan, I'm going to have to kick the tires on that one.

KeS

[atypical1]

I am obviously not expecting it to be a Japanese bike either. I really don't like a really smooth motor (boring comes to mind) but I was just really turned off by the "Thunderstorm" motor. The vibes just drove me batty and I didn't like the engine characteristics in general. The rest of the bike was pretty well thought out and I really wanted to like the bike.

OTOH, I also really wanted to like the GS but don't care for the riding position. Put that GS motor into the Buell frame...or the 1100DS motor...or that Rotax motor and we have a different situation on our hands.

james

[Bueller]

Yes.  Even understanding that it does get reasonable performance, that *type* of power delivery just turns me off.  I describe it as like driving an electric can opener.  "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr shift rrrrrrrrrrrrr"

It is far from an electric can opener.  It is really raw bike, and the sound when you open it reminds me of a race worked small block.  This is no velvet Honda.  You know you are riding something different.  It comes with Firebolt handling except perhaps a little slower and a bit more solid.  The sound when you open it is awesome.

[kevin_stevens]

It is far from an electric can opener.  It is really raw bike, and the sound when you open it reminds me of a race worked small block.  This is no velvet Honda.  You know you are riding something different.  It comes with Firebolt handling except perhaps a little slower and a bit more solid.  The sound when you open it is awesome.

Look guys - the point at question was simply whether people were turned off the Buells simply by the Harley motor.  I and others have posted that yes, we are.  It's not something to argue about.  Some people just really don't care for low-revving, high-torque power delivery.  Rogue loves his L98 Vette and his Firebolt.  I sold my L98 Vette after one season and avoided the Buell until the 1125R.  There's just a pretty clear difference in taste there.  It's ok.

KeS

[Rogue]

You either love it or hate it.

Honestly, I don't understand why some hate the motor because I really, really like its rawness and power delivery, as well as its overall rwhp.  I've given up explaining it.  

BTW, I also like really smooth engines (VFR).  So go figure....

[atypical1]

You either love it or hate it.

Honestly, I don't understand why some hate the motor because I really, really like its rawness and power delivery, as well as its overall rwhp.  I've given up explaining it.  

BTW, I also like really smooth engines (VFR).  So go figure....

You're just weird...

james

[Rogue]

I think that's it.  

[Busy Little Whiner]

 Personally, I have no clue what these people are bitching at because I love the Firestorm engine and its personality and power delivery, especially its simplicity and low maintenance.

What no clue???

[Rogue]

You're hilarious.  

Go buy that Firebolt already and just ride.  You know you want to.  You may discover that it actually handles better than your beloved RC's.  

[Busy Little Whiner]

You're hilarious.  

Go buy that Firebolt already and just ride.  You know you want to.  You may discover that it actually handles better than your beloved RC's.  

I promised to test hop a Firebolt and I intend to keep it Rogue... full report will follow...

[Bueller]

Maybe you could get a job as an engine designer BLS.  That's a pretty good first effort.  Almost as simple as a Thunderstorm

[Busy Little Whiner]

Maybe you could get a job as an engine designer BLS.  That's a pretty good first effort.  Almost as simple as a Thunderstorm

I'd design a race bred 600cc V4... narrow as an arrow and light as a feather... Eric knows it
would dance rings around his tall and ponderous V2...  

[Rogue]

I promised to test hop a Firebolt and I intend to keep it Rogue... full report will follow...

I've been waiting since last year....    

[Busy Little Whiner]

I've been waiting since last year....    

Are you going to the WCRM???

[atadaskew]

Are you going to the WCRM???

Why wait, just go to a Buell shop and test ride one.

[Rogue]

Are you going to the WCRM???

No.

New job = no time for big rides for 6 months or so.

[Busy Little Whiner]

Why wait, just go to a Buell shop and test ride one.

If it's a Buell... I can wait...

[atadaskew]

If it's a Buell... I can wait...

 

[Phenix_Rider]

Hey, new here  

The 1125R will probably be my next bike- gotta test ride it first though.  And wait for the bugs to be worked out.  I love the look and feel and color.  The narrow (compared to a 600 I4 with your legs spread wide while you're humping the tank) waist is great, and the fairing is totally unlike anything else.  I've seen in several reviews that the 1125R is improved in every way over the older Buells.  The gauges are massively improved over the other Buells, and a decent redline means it'll be more fun to ride.  

I test rode several Lightnings at a Harley/Buell demo last season.  Wanted to try a Firebolt.  Seen one in person, and it was far more comfortable than the ST, STT, etc.  The lack of a front fairing- face out over the front wheel was bizarre.  They didn't have a 'Bolt, but they all have the same engine.  I hate the Harley lump- hate it.  A bike should not try to vibrate off it's sidestand.  Ridiculously low redline too- my truck almost revs higher.  Don't like having tons of torque low, but running out of engine in 5 seconds.   I'd much rather have an engine build power linearly, with just enough vibe to let you know it's alive.  The brakes were disconcerting (nothing like standing straight up when you trail brake), as was the harsh clutch and difficult neutral.  Hated trying to find the sidestand too.  Handling is incredible, but throttle is twitchy, and there's no room to hold higher revs through a corner- you need them to get out.  I've heard a couple owners brag "You only need one gear," well I'd rather shift, thank you.

  with my Ninja 650R though.  Had to wait for the second model year there too, for Kawi to iron things out.  The trans is slightly clunky, but the Lightnings felt like a cement mixer chewing bricks.

[Brad1445]

.... and the fairing is totally unlike anything else.  

Tru Dat!

[Rogue]

I've heard a couple owners brag "You only need one gear," well I'd rather shift, thank you.

That's completely not true of the Thunderstorm engines.  You need all those gears.  In fact, because of its relatively narrow powerband, you need to shift it often.  The Thunderstorm requires its rider to adopt more to its nature.  Especially if you are used to the multi-valve, high revving motors with redlines up in the stratosphere.  It's not for everyone.

[Phenix_Rider]

That's completely not true of the Thunderstorm engines.  You need all those gears.  In fact, because of its relatively narrow powerband, you need to shift it often.  The Thunderstorm requires its rider to adopt more to its nature.  Especially if you are used to the multi-valve, high revving motors with redlines up in the stratosphere.  It's not for everyone.

Yeah- it's a sportbike with a Harley engine.  My 650R's redline is 11k, so not that high, but the short rev range on the XBs was horrible.  I can go into a corner at 5k and go up from there.  At 5k on the Thunderstorm, you're only what? 1500 from redline?  That's just far too much of an adjustment for me.

[scott-sts]

Yeah- it's a sportbike with a Harley engine.  My 650R's redline is 11k, so not that high, but the short rev range on the XBs was horrible.  I can go into a corner at 5k and go up from there.  At 5k on the Thunderstorm, you're only what? 1500 from redline?  That's just far too much of an adjustment for me.

You're missing the point of the engine, which is "Torque".  I rarely excede 5000 rpm and ride rather quickly.  You can't ride it like a japanese bike.

[Phenix_Rider]

You're missing the point of the engine, which is "Torque".  I rarely exceed 5000 rpm and ride rather quickly.  You can't ride it like a japanese bike.

Definitely a love it or hate it engine.

[Kinger]

You're missing the point of the engine, which is "Torque".  I rarely excede 5000 rpm and ride rather quickly.  You can't ride it like a japanese bike.

Great point.  Everyone always says it doesn't rev high enough.  Riding style needs to adjust to the bike.

[Busy Little Whiner]

That's completely not true of the Thunderstorm engines.  You need all those gears.  In fact, because of its relatively narrow powerband, you need to shift it often.  The Thunderstorm requires its rider to adopt more to its nature.  Especially if you are used to the multi-valve, high revving motors with redlines up in the stratosphere.  It's not for everyone.

True:

quote June 08 Motorcyclist

"The latest air cooled Thunderstorm twin concentrates its underwhelming muscle in a
relatively narrow band above 4000 rpm, just like previous Buell efforts. Below that
figure it feels unresponsive, a bit asthmatic and generally unhappy"  

[Rogue]

I don't find my Thunderstorm engine "generally unhappy" below 4k RPM.  In fact, around town I frequently have to spend a lot of time between 2k to 4k RPM.  It runs fine down there and is very torquey and responsive.  Off the line, I can pull away very easily and leave everyone behind without exceeding 4k RPM.  Coming out of a slow corner the bike pulls quickly away.  It is nice not to have a frenetic sounding and feeling motor that constantly feels like it's working hard just to deliver a good drive out of corners.  

If you want to compare that to your beloved V4, well the VFR800 motor doesn't even wake up until passed 4k RPM.  Off the line I need to slip the clutch to keep the engine from stalling.  PLus, it doesn't quite have the energetic pull of the Thunderstorm off the line.  This actually makes the Firebolt way more fun to ride around town and in tight twisties.

The difference is like a musclecar engine (Thunderstorm) vs. a high reving multi-valve V6 (VFR800).  

Both are fun.  But you need to ride each one in a different way.

Honestly, if you are the type that can't adopt or won't, then stick to your high revving Japanese inline engines.  Me?  I like both and enjoy both and find the required difference in riding style quite entertaining.  I guess some people are just not the type to try new things.  

[Busy Little Whiner]

 

If you want to compare that to your beloved V4, well the VFR800 motor doesn't even wake up until passed 4k RPM.  

Mercy Rouge... I'm not impressed with the VFR800 either... but if want to compare try
my 360º crank Race Bred V4... then you'll have a clue to a truly mind altering power
band...

Quote Andrew S3 Triumph Triple:

"OMG.  The RC45 is amazing.  It feels nothing like a VFR motor (Which I don't think is
anything special, anyhow.) The RC45 motor is amazing, smooth, torquey, not at all
lumpy like I think of the VFR. Larry may have converted me to a V4 aficionado."

[Bueller]

I guess that is the thing with the Thunderstorm.  There is no mind altering power band.  It is just on all the way.  No arm jerk, hands before neck when you wind on.  It just goes out through the rev range in a pretty linear fashion.  With the Micron it's even a bit more linear.

[Rogue]

Well, I have no clue what difference there is between the RC45 motor and the VFR800.  

What are the specs on the RC45 motor?

[Busy Little Whiner]

Well, I have no clue what difference there is between the RC45 motor and the VFR800.  

What are the specs on the RC45 motor?

[st ryder]

Where's the beef?

[Busy Little Whiner]

Where's the beef?

After an ride on a exotic homologated racer your bike may feel like a reduction in pay grade... like going
from a King to a Jack... like going from steak to hamburger...

[atadaskew]

Where's the beef?

At 50lbft torque it is a kiddie meal.  But it does come with a free plastic toy!

[Busy Little Whiner]

At 50lbft torque it is a kiddie meal.  But it does come with a free plastic toy!

Torque without modern RPMs equals slow going... here's 33,000 ft pds that puts all of us to shame... but it
won't win you any races however it does come with a free furry saddle...

[atadaskew]

Torque without modern RPMs equals slow going... here's 33,000 ft pds that puts all of us to shame... but it
won't win you any races however it does come with a free furry saddle...

So, you're saying your bike is faster than  a horse...

[Bueller]

Torque without modern RPMs equals slow going... here's 33,000 ft pds that puts all of us to shame... but it
won't win you any races however it does come with a free furry saddle...

But its only got 1 HP, and I can only see 4 foot pounds

[Rogue]

It's got what?  105 rwhp?  

That was a lot in the mid-90's but nowadays, a modded VFR can easily get that.  The 1125R has 130 rwhp!

[Busy Little Whiner]

It's got what?  105 rwhp?  

That was a lot in the mid-90's but nowadays, a modded VFR can easily get that.  The 1125R has 130 rwhp!

Where do you see 105 rwhp???

[Rogue]

120 at the crank.

Impressive in its day that's for sure.  But it's only marginally more powerful than the VFR800 and definitely no longer the standard when V-twins from Ducati and Buell are up in the 140-160 bhp range.

The GSXR750's are now in the 150 bhp range dude, and weighs around 425 lbs. wet.

[Busy Little Whiner]

120 at the crank.

Impressive in its day that's for sure.  But it's only marginally more powerful than the VFR800 and definitely no longer the standard when V-twins from Ducati and Buell are up in the 140-160 bhp range.

The GSXR750's are now in the 150 bhp range dude, and weighs around 425 lbs. wet.

European spec RC45s sported 120 RWHP stock and 150RWHP with the bolt on race kit...

Negative Rouge... according to Cycle World scales and dyno the 08 GSXR 750 weights 421 tank empty /
449 tank full and makes 127 RWHP...

Mr.RC45 currently weights in at 418 tank empty and makes 116 rwhp... so don't worry because I can hold
my own against the latest and greatest 750...









 

[Baz]

But its only got 1 HP, and I can only see 4 foot pounds

  Does anyone else sense a feeling of unhappiness on that four foot hoof pounds?

[Rogue]

European spec RC45s sported 120 RWHP stock and 150RWHP with the bolt on race kit...

Negative Rouge... according to Cycle World scales and dyno the 08 GSXR 750 weights 421 tank empty /
449 tank full and makes 127 RWHP...

Mr.RC45 currently weights in at 418 tank empty and makes 116 rwhp... so don't worry because I can hold
my own against the latest and greatest 750...

So how much does a stock RC45 weigh with tank full?  And how much rwhp does it make without mods?

116 rwhp vs 127 rwhp....dude, you would still get owned by a GSXR750.  

[Busy Little Whiner]

So how much does a stock RC45 weigh with tank full?  And how much rwhp does it make without mods?

116 rwhp vs 127 rwhp....dude, you would still get owned by a GSXR750.  

Stock RC45 weigh is right there in Honda's brochure I posted... 469 tank full and Honda released it Europe
with 120HP and 98HP in the USA (thanks to the Federal Government)... the only engine mods done to
Mr.RC45 are a homemade K&N filter (they don't make one for the RC45) and my buddy Rob Lindeman
made us a homemade titanium exhaust also I snipped and rerouted 3 wires in the ECU as per Honda's
Racing
bulletin...


 

[Bueller]

Those curves impress.  I imagined that the bike would be peakier. Looks like it doesn't start much before 4, but given the rev range there is nothing wrong with that.

[Busy Little Whiner]

Those curves impress.  I imagined that the bike would be peakier. Looks like it doesn't start much before 4, but given the rev range there is nothing wrong with that.

The dyno doesn't do the seat of your pants any justice... it actually pulls with authority just off idle...
providing a continuous power in a linear smooth fashion which just builds into a mad crescendo the nearer
you get to the 12,500 rpm rev limiter... By this time the Mr.RC45 feels like it's accelerating with near-violent
power...  I wish more people should experience it just how flexible this race bred V4 powerband is... it will
amaze you how it just builds and builds...

[Bueller]

They are probably pretty rare around down here now.  If I get a chance I'll ride one.

[Busy Little Whiner]

They are probably pretty rare around down here now.  If I get a chance I'll ride one.

According to my friend Jamie Campbell of Adelaide the RC45 wasn't a standard model for Australia, he
believes only 3 were sold new sourced from European spec machines and then put compliance plates on
them, the three bikes are in the 51-60 chassis range... his RC45 is a 55... they went for $45000AUS...

[Bueller]

According to my friend Jamie Campbell of Adelaide the RC45 wasn't a standard model for Australia, he
believes only 3 were sold new sourced from European spec machines and then put compliance plates on
them, the three bikes are in the 51-60 chassis range... his RC45 is a 55... they went for $45000AUS...

I'll be dreaming then  

[tomek]

I with couple of friends took a part in Inside Pass Buell track/demo day at Road America on July 10th.

I did two sessions on 1125,one on XT and four on my modded 04 R1.

Road America is ultra fast 4 mile track that will suck out each and every hp from the motor.Keep that in mind.

1125 was working very well at the pace we were riding ( 60% of my comfort zone),could not find fault with the bike.Motor has smooth powerband,no hits,hesitations,etc.But power was dissapointing,guy walked away from me on late model r6,there is no way that those bikes we rode were in 130-140 rwhp range,more like 110-115.I actually asked Buell people whether they were detuned for safety reasons,but they gave no answer,,,,,,,Hmmmmmmm
I`ve expected more from brand new design.

XT ,bike is fun to ride once you recalibrate yourself to soft,long travel suspension.Different kind of bike of course,but I liked the way it handled.Once again motor was dissapointment,very narrow powerband (5-7000 rpm),plus wide ratio 5 speed gearbox made your eyes glued to a tach.This is not liter bike where you have a option of 2,if not 3 gears in the corner.
It seems like you gotta shift more,not less with v2s,
Now, weak motor or not I was laughing inside of my helmet and was having fun,becouse bike like that is not supposed to go that fast in the corners.Hm,,,,,,going slower,,,,,,,,,more fun,,

Xt will be very capable,fun to ride bike once they put 1125 motor in it.

1125 R needs more Hp to be serious,no excusses sport bike.

http://www.myinsidepass.com/p/3_ra_advanced/insidepass_roadamerica_06-10-08_sm_9c4w163454

http://www.myinsidepass.com/p/3_ra_advanced/insidepass_roadamerica_06-10-08_sm_9c4w166314

http://www.myinsidepass.com/p/3_ra_advanced/insidepass_roadamerica_06-10-08_sm_gm5v00088

[atadaskew]

IBut power was dissapointing,guy walked away from me on late model r6,there is no way that those bikes we rode were in 130-140 rwhp range,more like 110-115.I actually asked Buell people whether they were detuned for safety reasons,but they gave no answer,,,,,,,Hmmmmmmm

Are you suggesting that the bikes that the magazines tested and dynoed in the 130rwhp range are ringers?
Has anyone dynoed a privately owned 1125R?

[Sound Uly]

Lots of private bikes have been dynoed and all are coming in over 130rwhp.  Lots of talk about people feeling like the bike doesn't feel fast but yet they are beating their best previous track times acheived 'faster' bikes.  The 1125 is a bit deceiving in how it delivers its power but, trust me, the power is all there.

Ron

[atadaskew]

Then maybe it was a late model R1 that motored on past!  Cuz an R6 with, what, 105hp is not going to pull a 130hp 1125R.

[st ryder]

Then maybe it was a late model R1 that motored on past!  Cuz an R6 with, what, 105hp is not going to pull a 130hp 1125R.

Years ago, when I actually had an interest in such things, I remember reading a comparo article in Motorcyclist IIRC, and 750 gixer beat all 1 litre superbikes in top speed runs. The horsepower difference between them was probably close to what we're discussing here. The surprise outcome of debunking the "there's no replacement for displacement" myth was attributed to better aerodynamics on the 3/4 gixer. A R6 has no sidemounted radiator "pods" like the 1125r, and a much, much smaller frontal area which is very key for slippery aerodynamics. Grunt will get you going real good, but cannot overcome the speed limitations of a high drag co-efficiency. Maybe, there's something like that at work here.  

[atadaskew]

interestink...

[tomek]

Well,08 R6 makes 115 hp and weights less then 1125 ( 30-40 pounds ? ).Much less aero drag too.We were only allowed to accelerate to about 140 ( lead rider would not go faster),but at this point acceleration was already flat,they would maxed out in upper 150`s.

Those 1125s that we rode did not make 130 at the back,no fricking way,lazy,relaxed V2 feel or not,110-115 more likely.

Btw,second gen of RC51 makes 130 from 1000 ccs,I truly expected more from brand new design and 1125 cc.

 Once again,I actually liked those Buells that I rode,they had very refined feel,but 1125 motor needs improvement ( steem),and that air cooled one is long passed due.No power and very narrow powerband.

 

[atadaskew]

2008 r6 makes 104 hp
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2008-supersport-shootout-cbr600rr-vs-daytona-675-vs-zx6r-vs-r6-vs-gsxr600-82371.html
2005 RC51 121 hp
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_weights_measurements/index.html#honda

I think the aerodynamics comment may be on the money.

[ccryder]

For awhile here I thought I had fell into a V45 black hole....  

Anyway, if any of you are around the Nashville, TN area you can ride my 1125r and get your own impressions.  In 4 months and 8,500 miles, my 25r keeps a grin on my face that's even bigger than my other 4 Buells combined!

Is it perfect?  No.  Is it what I wanted Buell to build? Yes!  Have I modified it to fit my needs and wants? Yes.  Would I sell it for an 848/ 1098/ Duke/ RC8?  NEVER!

The changes I have made are to better fit my needs of a daily rider and, one-up Sport-Tourer.  After Convertibars, Spencer seat, Givi V35 bags, HID lights, some sounds and radar detection, I have what I want and love everything about it.

Time2Work
Neil S.

[mept]

I saw one at the cycle world bike show in detroit and thought it was to ugly to even walk up to, now about 7 months later I saw one up close in a dealer while trying to check out the XB, and it was very nice, unique, but seemed quite comfortable for a sport bike.  Seemed similar in some way to a VFR position wise but I have only ridden a VFR once last year.  I think if I can ever find a dealer with both the XB and the 1125 I would definately try it.  Now CCRYDER, any chance you could post some close up picks on you bag set-up, brackets, etc? You did a great job turning that bike into a very nice looking SPORT-tourer!