Is this really a good deal for an oil change.

[Bryan]

I saw this on a Texas Craigslist.

  http://houston.craigslist.org/mcy/673939491.html

I can do my bike (Concours) for a good deal less than this guy can do a HD, are HDs really that expensive to maintain?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[chornbe]

No. Most Harley owners are chrome-polishing dinks who couldn't turn a wrench to save their lives. Owning two Harleys, I'm working harder and harder to distance myself from the whole "Harley lifestyle" more and more. I mean, we're talking about a group of people whose majority spend as much as a WHOLE NEW BIKE on eking out 100 ponies from a cruiser and will buy more chrome and leather over riding lessons every day of the week.

Anyway, about the bikes...

They're dirt cheap to maintain. No chain maintenance. The belts require inspection periodically and adjustment like every 20k miles or so. If you're into chrome, then they're probably marginally faster to clean. Wheels come off for tire changes as quickly as any other "big bike".

The only real cost is oil. The Big Twins have three oil holes (engine, gear box, primary/clutch). (~3.5 quarts for engine, roughly 1.25 quarts for gear box, 1 quart for primary)

The Sportsters have two hole (engine, gearbox/primary/clutch). (~3.75 quarts engine, 1 quart primary/clutch)

Filters are cheap. The job takes mere moments longer than any integrated casing bike.

As far as the rest of the bike goes... it's just a bike. It's got steering head bearing and wheel bearings and fork seals (in Showa forks!!!), etc.

There's no mystery to it. Only stigma and poorly informed consumers.

[Scratch33]

No. Most Harley owners are chrome-polishing dinks who couldn't turn a wrench to save their lives.

 

[Bryan]

I know the guy up the street from me has spent as much doing mods and bolt ons on his HD  as it has cost me for my entire bike and he still has to trailer it in an enclosed U-Haul when he goes to Florida.

 It just looks to me that people who have the money can afford to do stuff like that.

But I do all my own work on my bikes, I always have, so the investment in money is low as compared to the guy with the HD who pays good money to get people to install steel brake lines etc.

 An oil change that cost $80 and no doubt tax and disposal fee on top of that just sounds like far too much to pay.
 I mean its not an MV Agusta or any thing like that its a Harley Davidson.

I like Harley Davidsons and some of them look like a bike I would buy, but considering they are very very common I surmised that items such as an oil change would be affordable.

 Considering the price of a HD is usually above that of the types of bike I ride I am assuming that the majority of people that own them are like what chornbe say they are.

 Are they the professional people that would rather work for four hours in the office to earn the money to pay such extravagant prices rather than spend a Saturday morning doing it themselves and learning how as they go. And at a considerable saving as well. My X brother in law really likes to say "My Mechanic" when telling people about his transportation woes, Like he is the aristocrat and the tech is the indentured servant that he sort of owns. Are HD riders like that?

 My remaining brother in law took the MSF course this week and he picks up his new HD (don't know which model) next week, he has never ridden or done any mechanical stuff. I am slightly worried about him, big bike, never ridden, its not going to be a sporty I know that much.

 He is recently divorced and moved in to an apartment and the bar across the street is frequented by HD riders and thinks it is cool, so he jumped in with both feet.
 He is a big boy and can do what he wants, his mother and sisters are very afraid about what he is doing.
 They worry about me also but he is blood with no riding experience to speak off.

Any way its going to very interesting to see the metamorphosing that is about to take place with him, as did happen with the shirt and tie wearing guy up the street who now is leather and denim all the way.

 Still $80 for an oil change, looks like the mechanics saw the people comimg when they feel they can charge that much.

[chornbe]

The UHaul-to-Florida thing is a limitation of the rider, not the bike. That's an important note. As is evidenced by the fact that my bike is in Portland waiting for me, I would ride my 'Glide anywhere for any length of time. The only reason I shipped it to Portland was because of a limitation in vacation time to ride the initial three days it would take to beeline there. It's a ROAD bike they've built, not a trailer whore 'chopper'. It's sad to me that people would drop a collective $35k on the bike, mods and TRAILER to go show off their ass jewelry for 3 days a year. I guess if you've got the cash to do that...   My bike is my primary vehicle. My backup is a Corolla, so I don't mind spending a little extra on the main bike. But even with my mods, I've spent less than a Vision, a Goldwing or a K/LT.

As for which bike your brother in law is getting, many of Harley's bikes are actually wicked easy to ride and very forgiving. The touring frame bikes are heavy, yes, but they carry their weight well and are excellent parking lot handlers - very well mannered. If someone told me I *HAD* to let a newbie ride one of my bikes, I'd likely point him to my 'Glide before the Sporty. And long before any 'sport' bike. That's a tough call. If he's mature and approaches the bike with the right attitude, a new rider could do just fine on any of Harley's larger bikes. The whole "engage brain before disengaging clutch" idea. Judging by the number of sport bikes with broken plastics and in the bone yards, that's not just limited to "Harley guys".

[Leanintree]

On topic, I have to say when I stopped into the local HD boutique a while back regarding having them mount and balance a tire and they quoted me 1 hr minimum of shop time (off the bike, on it was 1.5 min) at $120/hr, I realized that they must REALLY have their clientel snowed. All other dealers in the area are running $70/hr shop time, one independant at $65, and all of them do tires at a flat rate off the bike. (which IMHO is still outrageous, but hey, thems the breaks if I don't want a tire changer in my garage)

I was floored to say the least. But I guess they get what the market will bear, and after all, branded shop time is worth way more than non branded (after all, do you know how hard it is to print a trademark bar/shield on as etherial an item as 'TIME'?).

Leanintree

[Bryan]

He went ahead and bought it, Electra Glide standard in black, good for him. He said that the first dealer he went to just said 20K for any bike he looked at, no info or any thing. He said he got tired of that fairly quick and left.

 The second dealer just a few miles away explained a lot of things to him as he is going to be a first time rider. The sat him down and asked what it was he was looking for and what type of riding he would like to do. He wants to ride between Olimpia and San Antonio every chance he gets.

 For him is was a tremendous experience, they gave him lunch, the gave him boots and a jacket when he singed the paperwork. Never heard of any helmet though. He is pumped,he is not the typical HD guy I don't think. He lost his dad a 15, he went to college became a teacher, joined up to pay of student loans and did his time in Iraq. Came home and eventually divorced. Now he may be the new breed of rider HD are looking for.
 I wish him all the luck.

[chornbe]

Please pass on my good wishes. I've become very familiar with many aspects of the their bikes. Feel free to put him in contact if he has any specific questions.

[fritzcoinc]

Maintaining a Harley is about as simple as it gets. Just roll a floor jack under the front motor mount, shove a wood box under the middle of the frame and there it sits for maintenance or cleaning. It appears that Harley is not too hard on the do it yourself-er. Parts are pretty simple to get, but some of the " kits" leave something to be desired. And if they took the " warning, failure to do so could result in loss of control of the vehicle personell injury or death" out of the service manual it would be about 1/2" thick. ( check it out, they say that about not installing new exhaust pipe clamps ) I often think when riding my Road king, this bike is like a Buick Electra 225, comfortable, faster than most, how far do you want to go, and once you learn it, it handles pretty good.

[weidauer]

It's getting to be that Harley threads are as volatile as oil and tire threads.

After about 3k on my '08 Ultra Classic, I can say that this is a solid, entertaining and very well-built motorcycle. I just need to get enough time to take it out for a proper trip to see how it feels after a few 600 mile days in a row.

HDs have always been somewhat controversial, image-wise. And like most things that create this type of emotional response, only a portion is actually true. I know Harley owners with two-year old bikes and fewer than 2,000 miles. They dress the part: leather vest and chaps, "doo-rag," and no helmet unless required. These aren't motorcyclists, any more than hauling a set of Pings around a golf course for an afternoon of torture makes me a golfer.

I'll give Harley credit though, in that they've "legitimized" motorcycling and made it socially acceptable, for the most part. The whole "loud pipes save lives" nonsense is still out there, and the backlash for that is far from over. But generally speaking, hotels and restaurants are happy to see these "bikers" pull in; they are seen  as generally successful and overall good customers. I'm old enough to remember when walking into a hotel lobby weary from the road, hauling riding gear, would get you suspicious looks at best, and I was asked to leave on more than one occasion.

The biggest complaint the hotels have today is the ruined towels from polishing chrome and getting the bugs off windshields.

In any case, don't lump every Harley rider into the same pile. HD gets more than its share of wannabes who can't ride, and own a bike because it was fun to buy and have in the garage and add chrome things to. Suzuki gets its share of flip-flop wearing squids who can't ride either, but that doesn't stop them from doing 90 mph wheelies on the freeway with shorts and no helmet. But I don't think anyone looks at every Hayabusa rolling by and thinks "squid."

I'm a motorcyclist, who happens to currently own a Harley. I also have a Kawasaki KLR, and (until a couple of weeks ago), a Moto Guzzi. I bought the Ultra on its merits as a long-distance touring bike that the SO would be willing to spend some time on, just as I bought the KLR based on its reputation as a solid, reliable trail bike.

Anyway, to answer the initial question, Harley labor rates are ridiculous. I do all my own work, and always have. I also mow my own lawn, although I've finally given up doing the maintenance on my cars - too much hassle, and I'd rather spend the time riding. But for those to whom the Harley in the garage is just part of a larger "adult toy" collection (boat, snowmobile, SUV, etc.), the labor rates aren't that important.

I think we often forget that our passion is just a pastime for many folks. They don't take it any more seriously than I do golf, although I must assume they enjoy it more.  

[Geoff]

HD dealers in my area charge about $45 for a while you wait oil change.

[ray6576]

All things said about Harleys being easy to maintain is true. I am however not to good with working on my bike. But I did buy the shop manual and look at what is required and then decide wether or not I can do it. When I put 5, 15 ir 25 thousand miles on the bike it only requires an oil change and inspection of various parts and checking some fasteners which I do. When I had the 10K done recently the head steering bearings had to be greased and adjusted and I do not feel comfortable at my level of competence. I called several HD dealers and was quoted $650 to $670 for the 10K service and about $450 by the independents in my area. I called the dealer I purchased the bike from and they quoted $300 for the same service. I went with the lower price and had a rear tire replaced at the same time for $170 parts and labor. When getting maintenace done that you can not do or do not want to do yourself it pays to shop around.

[RickC1957]

HD dealers in my area charge about $45 for a while you wait oil change.

Thats just labor, right Because if that labor/fees and material....thats a smokin deal!

[scott-sts]

Oil changes on my Harley powered Buell are quicker and cheaper than the XX.
No doubt the engine will explode suddenly, it being a Harley and all.

[Desmo Demon]

I should roll 100,000 miles on my old HD next week. For the most part, I've been the only one to work on the bike since I bought it slightly used back in '93. They are fairly straight-forward to work on. I've got an older one, so I still have to worry about chain maintenance and all the grease and grime associated with it.

[Bryan]

If you change the oil yourself will it void the warranty?

[scott-sts]

If you change the oil yourself will it void the warranty?

Absolutely not.  Furthermore, by law you can have the bike serviced anywhere you want to.  Save your receipts for oil and filters, etc.
Warranty work, by law, can be performed by any Harley dealer; you do not have to go back to the dealer you purchased the bike from.

[whoaru99]

Yeah....

Most of my riding buddies drive Harleys. They're all totally convinced that all they can do is ride, gas, and polish the bike. All else MUST be done by the dealer or their warranties will be terminated and the bikes will immediately self destruct.

I've volunteered to help them change oil and other things but they get this deer in the headlights look on their face and start muttering about warranty and dealer and....but...but...dealer...warranty...


Not only does the dealer get this simple stuff handed to them, they also get the sales of another $100 in new farkles each time.

Brilliant, simply brilliant marketing.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot the best part... most of them have the service/repair manuals for their bikes!!!  

[Desmo Demon]

EDIT: Oh, I forgot the best part... most of them have the service/repair manuals for their bikes!!!  

I have two different manuals for my HD. A factory one and a Clymer's. The very first job I did paid for both of them, and after that, every job I did on my bike paid for new tools by the savings that had by doing the work myself. My 6-hp 30 gallon air compressor was bought from one chain and sprockets change, an impact wrench and set of Torx sockets was bought with the savings from another service, two different sets of other sockets, specialty tools, this and that......I've bought a lot of tools with the savings from doing my own work, plus......if anything screws up, I only have myself to blame. I'd done a couple of things wrong, repaired my F-up, and STILL came out ahead of takign it the dealer. I have the same theory with my Ducatis.  

[Bryan]

Today my wife and I were sitting on the back porch just chatting and who the hell walked in!
My brother in law, he rode that Glide 2800 miles in three days from Seattle to San Antonio.
 He said his ass was sore and he was looking tired.
He asked if I would keep his bike for a year and do what it takes to keep it in shape while he serves another tour in Iraq.

 No problem, I will do that for him, I guess I will learn the ins and outs first hand.

But a new rider taking on a distance like that, good for him, well done, and a outstanding testament to Harley Davidson.

[M.Brane]

Today my wife and I were sitting on the back porch just chatting and who the hell walked in!
My brother in law, he rode that Glide 2800 miles in three days from Seattle to San Antonio.
 He said his ass was sore and he was looking tired.
He asked if I would keep his bike for a year and do what it takes to keep it in shape while he serves another tour in Iraq.

 No problem, I will do that for him, I guess I will learn the ins and outs first hand.

But a new rider taking on a distance like that, good for him, well done, and a outstanding testament to Harley Davidson.

 

 I applaud any rider who actually rides their bike. Even noobs.

 HD's are no different than any other machine, and simpler than most. Keep the fluids fresh, the primary adjusted properly, and they will go a long way without complaint. They do have their quirks like anything mechanical, but nothing that isn't well known/ documented.

[Scratch33]

 He said his ass was sore

Geez.  How many dealers did he stop at on the way?

[Geoff]

Harleys are one of the easiest bikes to wrench on the planet. The oil/filter can be changed in almost less time than it takes to get the plastic off some bikes. Most HD owners I know perform their own maintenance.

[CosmicHD]

No. Most Harley owners are chrome-polishing dinks who couldn't turn a wrench to save their lives. Owning two Harleys, I'm working harder and harder to distance myself from the whole "Harley lifestyle" more and more. I mean, we're talking about a group of people whose majority spend as much as a WHOLE NEW BIKE on eking out 100 ponies from a cruiser and will buy more chrome and leather over riding lessons every day of the week.

Funny, my experience is the opposite. Most HD owners I know do all their own maintenance and avoid the dealers and indys at all costs.

If anything, I think a lot of the metric crowd are the ones who do little of their own work.  

As to changing the oil the original post asked about.....it is a breeze. It is like changing the oil on any machine; drain plug, oil filter, oil cap. It is a no brainer.

[fritzcoinc]

If anything, I think a lot of the metric crowd are the ones who do little of their own work.  

That's because Jap bikes need very little maint.

[scott-sts]

That's because Jap bikes need very little maint.

   As compared to what?  A Harley?
Harley's require no valve adjustments & no chain adjustments.  Furthermore, i'll be done with an oil and primary fluid change before you even get the plastic off of your (insert Jap bike here).

[chornbe]

True story.

[Geoff]

My Harley is much easier (and less expensive) to service than my BMW.  

[stevent]

Ditto, the factory black oil filter is about $10. and a gallon of 15w40 weight Rotella is $11.00. Oil & filter every 5k, primary chain case is 1 qt of whatever 10w40 you want to throw in there every 10k and the transmission is a quart of 75w90 gear oil every 20k. Air filter is one screw to check, 4 total to remove swish around a pan of gas to clean and re-install, steering head bearings are a zerk fitting, plugs are every 20k and just about unscrew them selves they're so easy to get at. The fact is a modern stock Harley is about the easiest and maintenance free bike you can own. Buy the factory service manual and some decent tools and you'll be good to go.

I also put over a 100k on a couple of Shovelheads and they were not much more trouble, the main difference being points and timing to adjust and the Bendix carb accelerator pumps used to wear out. 90% of the stories you hear about "unreliable HD's" is because some ham-fisted clod fucked them up in the first place with their "performance " mods and aftermarket junk..

The fact is I had more trouble with the '84 Sabre and '97 VFR I owned than any of the 7 Harleys and more warranty work on my '79 R 100 RT  & '85 K 100 RS...

[Kat-Rider]

the link is gone, but someone said it was $80.
that is not that bad.  At the shop I use the minimum fee is 1 hour at $75 for an oil change and basic service.
they will also charge for oil as well as the filter and a small disposal fee.  I think the invoice was over 100 for an oil change with synthetic.  (It was the guy in line in front of me when i was looking at negotiating tire prices.)

[Zixxerpilot]

The only thing that Harley claims is necessary is some aditive they use for the air cooled engine. However, I know that all the S&S engines are shipped filled with Mobile One synth, and that is what most of the guys run. I've never heard of any problems. The guys not using M1 are using Rotella, and again, with no problems.

I bashed H-D for a long time. Then, I got actively involved in the business around those bikes, and it changed my mind a bit. The final change was from a couple of family members and their close friends who are as true a biker as can be. The honestly live by the "Live to Ride" phylosophy, and respect anyone else that does, regardless of the choice of bike. My wife's uncle rides with a local club, and they are some of the most outstanding guys ever! Not to mention, just about any one of them could tear their bikes down in their sleep, and have them running again before dawn. I LOVE riding with these guys! I'm looking at bikes my kids can ride on with me safely, and so far the H-D products are winning my vote.

As for labor charges, I've seen them all over the board. Lax H-D is a huge shop, and they whip out oil changes for around $50, and take a good look over the bike while they do it. Other dealers are charging anywhere from $45 to $145(yes, you read that right), and I can tell you which ones will continue to operate.