Heads up to anyone headed to Americade

[mwt]

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--motorcycledeaths0530may30,0,1662755.story

   To summarize the article......the NY State Police are setting up road blocks to crack down on riders with modified exhausts and anyone wearing the "tupperware" helmets......

 

[marc11]

 

[Boxerdawg]

Yeah, what he said.    Although I do hate increased LEO attention on anything motorcycle related, those straight-pipe and plastic yarmulke goofs get pretty tiresome at the large gatherings.  BTW, I'm headed up to Americade in about 1½ hr.  I'll give a report on any increased enforcement [or not]

[nnjhawk02]

Yeah, what he said.    Although I do hate increased LEO attention on anything motorcycle related, those straight-pipe and plastic yarmulke goofs get pretty tiresome at the large gatherings.  BTW, I'm headed up to Americade in about 1½ hr.  I'll give a report on any increased enforcement [or not]

Be Safe

Go Backroads Son

[Snowbird]

   To summarize the article......the NY State Police are setting up road blocks to crack down on riders with modified exhausts and anyone wearing the "tupperware" helmets......

 

Granted, helmets are the law, but then, I disagree with helmet laws anyway. Not that I don't prefer riding with one and would never ride far without one, but if I want to move my bike without donning one, that should be my decision, not the state's.

As for the cheers going up regarding modified exhausts, most of the riders here would fall victim to that.... so be careful what you wish for. You might get it.

[marc11]

I've moved on from after market pipes and keep mine stock.  One day I realized as a couple of bikes passed my house screaming of loud pipes just how annoying it was; and then I realized I was a hypocrite as I was probably annoyed just as many other people when I rode.  From that point on, I went stock exhaust.

But that is just me and my opinion.

[marc11]

Read in the local paper, troopers stopped 123 bikes, issued 40 tickets for safety violations.  I bet most were helmet, plate and turn signal infractions.

Be warned, they stated they would have a southbound road block at the end of the event.

[squeezer]

Be warned, they stated they would have a southbound road block at the end of the event.

I hope that sells a lot of mufflers.

[BillToLast]

Seems like the NYS State Police got some extra monies from the Feds to set up this project.  I'll be leaving tomorrow morning, but I stay off the slabs, so won't have the pleasure of saying hi to  the boys in grey and purple.  From what I've heard so far, as long as you have a (real) DOT lid, and your pipes aren't saving lives, you'll be OK.

I have two problems with this type of operation, however.  First, it is a selective, discriminatory practice that singles out a specific group to be detained from a lawful activity with no just or probable cause.  I may be getting old, but I remember the days before Dick Cheney took our civil rights away from us, and locked thm up for safekeeping.

Second, the press kit released to the media is juiced-up with all kinds of fun facts, such as "motorcycle drivers are 20 time more likely to die while operating their vehicles" and "motorcycle fatalities have increased 45 percent in the past two years".  

Rather than take this money, and attempt to raise public awareness of motorcycles sharing the road, subsidizing rider education and training, (my MSF Rider Course cost me $100 out-of-pocket) the state decided to pay troopers overtime, and rake in a few bucks for Warren County. Doesn't make much sense to me.  

[NJFJR]

Rather than take this money, and attempt to raise public awareness of motorcycles sharing the road, subsidizing rider education and training, (my MSF Rider Course cost me $100 out-of-pocket) the state decided to pay troopers overtime, and rake in a few bucks for Warren County. Doesn't make much sense to me.  

Welcome to New York. We hope you enjoy your stay here.

As far as being "selective"? Good for them if they get as many of those non inspected illegal pieces of crap off the road.

[Bigfoot]

"I have two problems with this type of operation, however.  First, it is a selective, discriminatory practice that singles out a specific group to be detained from a lawful activity with no just or probable cause.  I may be getting old, but I remember the days before Dick Cheney took our civil rights away from us, and locked thm up for safekeeping"

Let me ask.  You call this discriminatory.  Is it also discriminatory when LE does DUI check points looking for DUI drivers?  Or when LE sets up truck enforcement check points and remove unsafe trucks?  Or checking details where the main goal is to remove unlicensed drivers from the road.  Just curious?

[et]

"I have two problems with this type of operation, however.  First, it is a selective, discriminatory practice that singles out a specific group to be detained from a lawful activity with no just or probable cause.  I may be getting old, but I remember the days before Dick Cheney took our civil rights away from us, and locked thm up for safekeeping"

Let me ask.  You call this discriminatory.  Is it also discriminatory when LE does DUI check points looking for DUI drivers?

I say not IF they are stopping and checking all vehicles; as opposed to only stopping a specific group of vehicles.
Why not also stop the cars and check their exhausts, tires, seat-belts, etc .... ?

Or when LE sets up truck enforcement check points and remove unsafe trucks?

If the authorities were truly concerned about safety; then they would do away with being able to register a vehicle with "self inspection" status.
Then there would be no need for "truck enforcement check points"; because the trucks and trailers would have inspection stickers.

Or checking details where the main goal is to remove unlicensed drivers from the road.  Just curious?

Again; not IF they are stopping and checking all vehicles.

[Windblown]

Is it also discriminatory when LE does DUI check points looking for DUI drivers?  Or when LE sets up truck enforcement check points and remove unsafe trucks?  Or checking details where the main goal is to remove unlicensed drivers from the road.  Just curious?

It's discriminatory, lazy, and effective.  However the most important issue is delaying the lawful travel of those who are not breaking the law. I realize it's not an issue that bothers most LEOs since they are on the clock and getting paid while manning checkpoints but it's a problem for me when traveling on my own time.

There was a time when it was considered to be unlawful to detain people from their right to unhindered travel here in the US without just cause.  I understand the good intentions of these roadblocks, but I find the precedent deeply disturbing.

[marc11]

I guess it would be best to define "detain" versus "delay"?  Also, doesn't anyone here know for sure the check points were corralling motorcycles only and not all vehicles?

Personally all of those check points, be it DUI or the occasional ones I see on town roads to check reg and inspection are a bunch of BS.  Then again, in the last six months I have had my wife hit by someone without insurance or registration and had someone crash into a ditch across the street from me at 3 AM who was DUI AND a teenager to boot, more of those check points may have taken both of those asshats off the road.  Its one of those things that is always better when it happening to the other guy...

[nnjhawk02]

Seems like the NYS State Police got some extra monies from the Feds to set up this project.  I'll be leaving tomorrow morning, but I stay off the slabs, so won't have the pleasure of saying hi to  the boys in grey and purple.  From what I've heard so far, as long as you have a (real) DOT lid, and your pipes aren't saving lives, you'll be OK.

I have two problems with this type of operation, however.  First, it is a selective, discriminatory practice that singles out a specific group to be detained from a lawful activity with no just or probable cause.  I may be getting old, but I remember the days before Dick Cheney took our civil rights away from us, and locked thm up for safekeeping.

Second, the press kit released to the media is juiced-up with all kinds of fun facts, such as "motorcycle drivers are 20 time more likely to die while operating their vehicles" and "motorcycle fatalities have increased 45 percent in the past two years".  

Rather than take this money, and attempt to raise public awareness of motorcycles sharing the road, subsidizing rider education and training, (my MSF Rider Course cost me $100 out-of-pocket) the state decided to pay troopers overtime, and rake in a few bucks for Warren County. Doesn't make much sense to me.  

+ 1

It's discriminatory, lazy, and effective.  However the most important issue is delaying the lawful travel of those who are not breaking the law. I realize it's not an issue that bothers most LEOs since they are on the clock and getting paid while manning checkpoints but it's a problem for me when traveling on my own time.

There was a time when it was considered to be unlawful to detain people from their right to unhindered travel here in the US without just cause.  I understand the good intentions of these roadblocks, but I find the precedent deeply disturbing.

Yeppers to both of U.

Its quite disturbing that some of those that posted above would agree to selective enforcement.  If ur stopping one for vehicle for checks, U need to stop all.  NY is getting crazy - NYC has been stomping down hard on sportbikes for the last 2 yrs.  Make sure ur stuff is legal or ur in for a hurtin.  I'm calling the AMA.

If U don't belong - U should join - Protect Ur Right to Ride!!

http://www.amadirectlink.com/join/index.asp

[Snowbird]

Second, the press kit released to the media is juiced-up with all kinds of fun facts, such as "motorcycle drivers are 20 time more likely to die while operating their vehicles" and "motorcycle fatalities have increased 45 percent in the past two years".  

Rather than take this money, and attempt to raise public awareness of motorcycles sharing the road, subsidizing rider education and training, (my MSF Rider Course cost me $100 out-of-pocket) the state decided to pay troopers overtime, and rake in a few bucks for Warren County. Doesn't make much sense to me.  

My local paper did not have the extras you list. Shame on any paper that would run such filthy fillers.

I agree also with spending money on public awareness.

As for the question of discrimination, my local paper mentioned tickets given to car drivers for speeding and seatbelts. Covering their asses 101.

[Uwe]

 it is a selective, discriminatory practice that singles out a specific group to be detained from a lawful activity with no just or probable cause.  

How do you figure?   Many "novelty" helmets are easy to identify visually from a distance -- they lack the thickness that's intrinsically required for a helmet to be able to meet the DOT specs.    And loud pipes, well, they're loud.   So in both cases, probable cause can be established from a distance, even prior to the stop.

-Uwe-

[Clint]

Yes, but the cops are forcing ALL motorcyclists to pull over. There's no probable cause there. They're just rounding up everyone to pick out a few violations. In this country, you have an inherent "Freedom of Movement". This means you can travel unimpeded at will without fear that authorities will detain you without a specific reason.

[marc11]

Problem is, a law enforcement officer can cite you for almost ANYTHING and say that is the reason they stopped you.  Whether it holds up in court is another thing, but you can be given a ticket for almost anything.

[doozer]

I think this all stems from past events at Americade. Providing this is effective, I'd gladly deal with a short delay to eliminate what Americade has become in the last couple of years.  It used to be a very civil and laid back event but when I went up there last year, it was complete chaos-burnouts, loud pipes, fights.  During the week isn't so bad but once Thursday rolls around the place gets turned upside down.  A huge amount of Americaders now leave early and only spend part of the week because of this.  

I'm not counting on it but maybe these crackdowns will turn things around.

Just my 2 cents.

[st2sam]

How do you figure?   Many "novelty" helmets are easy to identify visually from a distance -- they lack the thickness that's intrinsically required for a helmet to be able to meet the DOT specs.    And loud pipes, well, they're loud.   So in both cases, probable cause can be established from a distance, even prior to the stop.

-Uwe-

AB-SO-LUTLY, but then again that makes to much sense and it's more work than just setting up a road block.
I remember when I was a kid reading about how in Russia they could set up road blocks for no reason and thinking how lucky I am to be in America were that was illegal.
I DON'T FEEL AS LUCKY ANYMORE.  
I do still feel I live in the best country in the world but I'm just not happy about the direction we're heading.......

[Clint]

I think this all stems from past events at Americade. Providing this is effective, I'd gladly deal with a short delay to eliminate what Americade has become in the last couple of years.  It used to be a very civil and laid back event but when I went up there last year, it was complete chaos-burnouts, loud pipes, fights.  During the week isn't so bad but once Thursday rolls around the place gets turned upside down.  A huge amount of Americaders now leave early and only spend part of the week because of this.  

I'm not counting on it but maybe these crackdowns will turn things around.

Just my 2 cents.

While that's all true and very regrettable, harassing ALL motorcyclists coming into town is the wrong way to address the problem. All it's going to do is to convince law-abiding Americaders (who far outnumber the problem element) to stay away next year. If a NYS trooper sees a guy with a possible non-DOT helmet and/or loud pipes, he should be pulled over individually. Leave the old farts wearing full-face helmets aboard Goldwings alone.

[googus]

Lets just see what Laconia week after does?!


Always in point people who Ride respect their suroundings or should period.

[Snowbird]

I think this all stems from past events at Americade. Providing this is effective, I'd gladly deal with a short delay to eliminate what Americade has become in the last couple of years.  It used to be a very civil and laid back event but when I went up there last year, it was complete chaos-burnouts, loud pipes, fights.  During the week isn't so bad but once Thursday rolls around the place gets turned upside down.  A huge amount of Americaders now leave early and only spend part of the week because of this.  

I'm not counting on it but maybe these crackdowns will turn things around.

Just my 2 cents.

I quit going after listening to Lake George shopkeepers bitching about the event not being for Goldwingers any more. I asked a one if I should just send my money and stay home? They hit you for every conceivable charge on top of the fact that they raise room rates for the week. It's a game of gouging the motorcyclists, gouge the vendors. But I don't like rallies, so perhaps my view is too harsh.  

[BillToLast]

 Or when LE sets up truck enforcement check points and remove unsafe trucks?  Or checking details where the main goal is to remove unlicensed drivers from the road.  Just curious?

I'm so glad that you brought that up.  Interstate truck traffic is regulated by the ICC, and part of the deal is that all commercial truck traffic is subject to random inspection. We all know this.  Cargo manifests, log books and safe equipment all contribute to the efficient operation of business.  If you don't like that, you can always get another job.

As far as removing unlicensed drivers from the road, a fine, noble cause, but if that were the goal, wouldn't it make more sense to check the vast majority of drivers (automobiles) then single out a minority group for no other reason than that they are a minority?  Sorry, apply that to ANY other subset, and it really doesn't pass the smell test.  

   

[SteveG]

+1

I remember when I was a kid reading about how in Russia they could set up road blocks for no reason and thinking how lucky I am to be in America were that was illegal.
I DON'T FEEL AS LUCKY ANYMORE.  
I do still feel I live in the best country in the world but I'm just not happy about the direction we're heading.......

[JETSET]

Lets just see what Laconia week after does?!


Always in point people who Ride respect their suroundings or should period.

Just remember these words "LIVE FREE OR DIE".
I'm leaving for NH on the 18th

[JamminJere]

Trev,

Maybe you'd want to borrow my new Cobra "Skank Buster" for the trip?  

It goes off WAY early to give you LOTS of warning...

Have fun and be careful my man!

JJ

[highside]

Problem is, a law enforcement officer can cite you for almost ANYTHING and say that is the reason they stopped you.  Whether it holds up in court is another thing, but you can be given a ticket for almost anything.

The sad fact is that there is probably something illegal on MOST bikes in the country, be it aftermarket turn signals, exhaust pipes, windscreens, license plates, you name it.

[nnjhawk02]

To follow up - Below is AMA email back to me.

Dear Rhino:

 

Thank you for using the "Contact Us" feature at www.AMADirectlink.com
 to share your concerns regarding the New York
State Police motorcycle checkpoints.

 

The New York State Police held their first mandatory motorcycle checkpoint on
Interstate 84 in East Fishkill on October 7, 2007.  A total of 280 motorcycles
were stopped, 225 inspected, and 104 citations issued during a four hour period.  
Coverage of the checkpoint was provided in a report online at
http://www.troopers.state.ny.us/Public_Information/2007_News_Releases/10-11-07_Results_from_State_Police_Motorcycle_Safety_Checkpoint.cfm.

 

In April, Sergeant Jim Halvorsen of the New York State Police gave a
presentation at the Lifesavers 2008 conference (see  http://www.lifesaversconference.org/handouts2008/Halvorsen.ppt).  
He indicated the police planned up to fifteen of these checkpoints during the
2008 riding season and stated that New York authorities believe these
motorcycle-only checkpoints are legal.

 

During the Memorial Day weekend, the first 2008 mandatory motorcycle checkpoint
was conducted at the AmJam Rally in Cobleskill. The second appears to have been
held May 30 on I-87 north of Albany in the Glens Falls area (between exits 17
and 18), snagging riders heading to the Americade Rally at Lake George.  Yet
another has been announced, targeting those returning from the Americade Rally.

 

While the AMA and various groups plan how to address these motorcycle-only
checkpoints, here are a few steps you can take to make your displeasure known:

 

1)     Contact the office of Governor David A. Paterson:

Telephone: 518-474-8390

E-mail: visit http://161.11.121.121/govemail and enter your message.

Write: Governor David A. Paterson, State Capitol, Albany, NY 12224

 

2)     Contact the superintendent of the New York State Police, Harry J.
Corbitt:

Write: Harry J. Corbitt, Superintendent, New York State Police, 1220 Washington
Avenue, Building 22, Albany, NY 12226-2252

 

3)     Contact the New York State Police Internal Affairs Bureau using e-mail
(see http://www.troopers.state.ny.us/Contact_Us/Compliments_or_Complaints/Pro-ConEmail.cfm)
or complete the form (see http://www.troopers.state.ny.us/Contact_Us/Compliments_or_Complaints/Pro-ConForm.pdf)
and mail it in.

Note from their Website: "It is the policy of the NYSP to respond to compliments
or complaints received from the public."

 

Talking points:

*   If these checkpoints are really about safety, then all motor vehicles should
be stopped, not just motorcycles.
*   Singling out only motorcyclists for special screening is discriminatory.
*   If the New York State Police have cause to believe a motorcyclist has
committed a violation, the individual rider should be stopped.  A motorcycle
dragnet to check for violations is unjust and unfair.
*   Unnecessarily entering and exiting rest areas is dangerous, especially when
unsuspecting motorcyclists are forced off the highway with little notice.

Take a few minutes to register your dislike of this discriminatory practice by
the New York State Police.

 

Thanks again for contacting us and for your many years of membership support.

 

Sincerely,

 
Mr. Imre F. Szauter
Government Affairs Manager
American Motorcyclist Association
13515 Yarmouth Drive
Pickerington, OH 43147-8214
1 (800) AMA-JOIN
1 (614) 856-1900, ext. 1125

[nnjhawk02]

I just emailed the NYSP Internal Affairs & Lake George C of C

I have contacted Lake George Chamber of Commerce to notify them, that I have canceled my plans to ride to Lake George this year, due to NYSP stopping only motorcyclist for safety checks.

This is a discriminatory!

If a safety check is enacted it should be for all vehicles.

I and many other motorcycle riders will be staying away from New York State this riding season and take our money else where.

Hit them too

IAFFAIRS@troopers.state.ny.us

info@lakegeorgechamber.com