Reasons NOT to consider a used BMW R1150RT-P

[k4azy]

So my first bike is a '98 Honda PC800 which I bought about a year ago. I specifically looked for this bike because it was easy to sell my wife on it and because of that awesome trunk. I could ride it for another 100K miles and it would do just fine but now I want something with a little more... Oomph. Frankly, I'm also tired of people asking me if it's a scooter. Just yesterday I was at a light when a hippy in a green volvo leaned out his window and asked me if it had a clutch. Damn hippies...

As for my needs, by night I'm a support engineer in Silicon Valley and by day I'm a mild-mannered student at Cal Berkeley and a full-time daddy of 3 young children. I spend a lot of time on the road between destinations. Essentially, I'm looking for a comfortable, low-maintenance ride with lots of storage for year-round riding. My PC800 fits that description but, like any nice but lonely girl can tell you, personality ain't everything. I want something a little sexier.

The BMW R1150RT has all of the above plus ABS, heated grips an adjustable windshield AND it's a very attractive bike. I've searched many forums and have found only praise for the RT but I just wouldn't feel like I'd fully researched it until I hear some criticism. Specifically, I'm looking at used CHP bikes (the RT-P). Can someone tell me why I really DO NOT want one of these? Any bad experiences with BMW, the RT in general or with used RT-P's? Is the radio box on the RT-P very functional? Would I be better off with a civilian model? Any advice would be appreciated but I think I've heard all the pros. Now I want to hear the cons.

k4azy

[Orson]

I rented an 1150RT for 3 weeks.

besides sounding like a sewing machine...I'm sorry...I couldn't find anything wrong with it  

good bike...good luggage...good handling.

the bike did have a mild case of surging, but it was so minor as to be insignificant to anyone but the most anal personality.

[Thor]

No passenger seat.

[photomd]

I like these bikes, but remember they are police bikes: they've been run within an inch of their lives. I have a friend who teaches driving for SC to all the police. He describes his job as "breaking vehicles". They should have all their records, but unless you wanna "fiddle" with it, I'd suggest finding a low mileage civilian model. Also all the ones I've seen seem to be at the high end of the price range.

[Baron Samedi]

They lack soul. Buy a KTM.

And they're ugly.

[Tritium]

They lack soul. Buy a KTM.

And they're ugly.

Did you fail to read the part where he's moving from a PC800? Compared to that, the RT is a combination of Natasha Henstridge and Miles Davis.  

I don't know what your budget for repairs is but all oilheads of that era have a couple weak points that are quite expensive to fix: the final drive and the clutch output/tranny input splines. If either of these goes it's at least a $1k repair, but aside from that maintenance is stone dead simple and doesn't take much effort. Find out when the last clutch replacement on the police bike was - from what I've heard (I don't know firsthand) officers are trained to drag the clutch constantly during slow speed maneuvers and it can't be good for a dry clutched bike.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I rode one for a friend from LA to Seattle. It was a good ride (albeit a little cramped for my legs). There was a small wiring problem but it turned out to be a simple fix (once I found someone who knew what to look for, no offense whatsoever to BMW-K - he was a godsend!)

Here's the trip, not that it will help much: http://www.dantesdame.com/06irvine.htm

[Baron Samedi]

Did you fail to read the part where he's moving from a PC800? Compared to that, the RT is a combination of Natasha Henstridge and Miles Davis.  

I don't know what your budget for repairs is but all oilheads of that era have a couple weak points that are quite expensive to fix: the final drive and the clutch output/tranny input splines. If either of these goes it's at least a $1k repair, but aside from that maintenance is stone dead simple and doesn't take much effort. Find out when the last clutch replacement on the police bike was - from what I've heard (I don't know firsthand) officers are trained to drag the clutch constantly during slow speed maneuvers and it can't be good for a dry clutched bike.

You are quite right. I am illiterate and always will be.

They're still fecking ugly, mind.

[Putt]

How about a used  FJR, ST1300, or a Connie?? all three are pretty much bulletproof, and reliable...

Putt...

[JrGman]

I would put used police bike in the same category as buying an auto from a rental agency, pretty high risk. Had a friend buy a car from Budget (maybe Avis, been a couple of years ago) and was suprised to have ongoing mechanical troubles...
Never owned one but the old Concours has to be a good choice given the fanatical owners you run into all over the place. Good luck!

[k4azy]

Thanks to all for the suggestions and advice. To recap:

- 1150RT-P is risky because they're working bikes and ridden hard. Conversely, I've heard that police bikes are meticulously maintained and each CHP bike is assigned to only a single officer so they're essentially single-owner bikes.

- 1150RT is ugly and lacks soul. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I really like the look of the RT. Also, as Tritium pointed out, we're comparing this to my PC800 so the RT beats that hands-down.

- 1150RT sounds like a sewing machine. Considering that the PC800 sounds like the Jetson's hover car, I think a sewing machine would be an improvement.

- BMW maintenance costs can be very high. This is a concern. The first time I need to spend a lot to fix my (relatively) expensive used bike, I'll never hear the end of it from my better half.

- Putt suggested I look at an FJR, ST1300, or a Connie. The first two aren't that appealing to me. The ST1300 looks a lot like the PC800 IMO. I was actually considering a Connie long before I thought of the RT and I'm still considering it. I think that it offers a lot of bang for the buck and it's a good-looking bike. I'm still on the fence about that.

DantesDame, I read about your trip a couple weeks ago and really enjoyed it. It sounded a bit harrowing at times! Thanks for sharing that.

k4azy

[Tar Snake]

No one's mentioned the most important reason to buy or not buy the P model:

It scares the hell out other riders when they pick you up in their mirrors.

[aaanorton]

Hi!

Just curious if you ever got your RT-P. If so, how did it work out?
I'm considering one of these as well.

Thanks!
Cliff

[gmcjetpilot]

First on topic, PASS on the R1150RT-P unless you are into and really DIG ex-Police gear.

As some one said they ask WAY TOO MUCH FOR THEM. I think there is a market for them, for people who like police stuff and also ride in parades, (seriously). The RT-P has an extra large cooler and a fan I recall for slow riding. Because you can get a civilian RT (1100, 1150) way cheaper with less mileage WHY WOULD YOU BUY THE P? Also the R1200RT is a better bike, been out for a few years, so there on the used market. The dealers are making deals as well. If you like the P model, paint your RT black & white, take the back seat off and put some lights and siren on it.   You can pretend you are Erik "Poncherello" Estrada on the 1970's TV show CHiP's.  Estrada

Now to BMW boxer bashing. First your jealous because you can't afford one.   Second, I love the way the Boxer sounds, it DOES have soul. That is the point. It is all the water cooled rice burners that sound like sewing machines or a Prius, aka boring, a weird electric motor or quasi silent weird whine..... ha ha, KIDDING, it is all good.  

Yes the BMW cost more, but you see them all the time with 70K, 80K, 90K or more. How many nice BMW's from the 50's, 60's and 70's do you see for sale? Many. That tells me two things:

They are fun to ride and people who have them actually ride them, not just between bars and places to pose next to their bike. Second they don't break. Granted Japanese engines are pretty reliable, understatement. However they are more high strung and higher revving. The cruise RPM on the BMW I guess is about 2000 less?

The other good thing about the BMW is it weighs less, as much as 100lbs less than some monster Japanese sport-tour bikes. Different strokes. On cruise at high way speeds the RPM is significantly less on the Boxer? Most of the top of the line Japanese sport-tour bikes today have pretty much licked the buzz at normal cruise speed. Still I like the boxer. For value and more of a sport angle the newly redesigned Kawasaki Concours 14 is hard to beat. If you want a BMW deal stick with Civilian bikes unless you like to play Cop.

[Castertroy]

After searching VERY hard for the perfect bike for the right price...I set my sights on a R1150RT


I HATE the look of the R1200RT....whew...thats just aweful (to me) but the 1150 is very very nice.

I initially had my heart set on an RTP because of the PRICE and the Farkles!!! The BMW dealer her is a buddy of mine and his dad owns another dealership at the state capitol, so he gets used '04 RTP trooper versions (which are better than the city versions, as they have hiway miles and not the trashed POLICE versions that need a clutch at 40K)

They're NICE!!

Example:


And with most of them UNDER 30k miles for $7500 they're a HELLOVA DEAL

The biggest perk was he was leaving all the lights and switches....and leaving them active (turning head) And after test riding one...I discovered you didn't NEED the lights wired...I mean...you just RIDE one of these (with trooper sticker and badge removed) and everyone gets out of your way  

The PROBLEM was.......storage and back seat. OK so my wife doesn't ride that much, but if I HAD a back seat, she WOULD ride....and the conversion is OVER $1000 I don't care HOW you do it

Storage was the other gripe. I mean, the city bags are NICE, but can't hold SQUAT....and that BACK box holds a pair of sandles MAX!!

With for the neat stuff it DOES have (guards, lights, MUCH bigger electrical capacity, bigger cooler, taller 6th gear, dead nuts accurate speedo, intimidation factor)  it has AS many cons.


So I bought a civilian version for just a little more

[aaanorton]

The PROBLEM was.......storage and back seat. OK so my wife doesn't ride that much, but if I HAD a back seat, she WOULD ride....and the conversion is OVER $1000 I don't care HOW you do it

@ Castertroy:
could you please elaborate on the seat issue? Why can't you just pull off the solo/box and replace it with a 2 up?

Thanks for your input! Those black trooper motors look awesome. The CHPs here in CA are all white and black.

[Castertroy]

Here is a step by step
Conversion


And here's the parts list you'll need



Add those up and you'll be right at $1000

It ain't easy  

[aaanorton]

Is that the best help you can provide? I mean, just a full parts list and photographed step-by-step?!
Seriously though, what a great reply! Thanks for your effort and thoroughness!

One more question: I see the rear seat listed as cross referenced to this catalog, but I don't see the front seat. Do you reuse the original solo seat? I wonder how much of this stuff could be had from parts bikes or yards... There's got to be a parts market for these bikes, no?

Here is a step by step
Conversion

Best,
Cliff

[Castertroy]

I THINK you reuse the front seat....can't be sure though

THE best source for anything BMW related (RTP included) is BMWsporttouring.com

Beware of grumpy old men with absolutely no tolerance for personality or any word worse than DARN....that will gladly point you to the search engine....but if you USE the search only...whatta freakin goldmine!


But I'll puke my RTP favorites list for you below  



http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/MainDiagrams.asp?mospid=47981

http://jeffdean2.home.att.net/rtp5.htm

http://www.bmwmc.net/uploads/tm7/04RTP.pdf

http://www.brownmotorworks.net/brochure/R1150RTP_Brochure.pdf

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5863

http://www.rtp.autobahnpolizei.de/index.php?lang=eng

[motoguy128]

Too bad you don't like the look of the 1200's new ones.  The 40 or so fewer lbs and the 20 or so extra HP is VERY noticeable.  I went from a R1150R to a R1200RT and that extra HP is very noticeable... expecially with a passenger.  The 1150 felt a little wheezy at times by comparison.... like it was out of breath over 5000RPM.  The 1200 just keeps pulling even stronger at higher RPM's.  

[aaanorton]

The 1200s are way out of my budget. Has nothing to do with whether I like them or not (which i do!).

[motoguy128]

The 1200s are way out of my budget. Has nothing to do with whether I like them or not (which i do!).

\


Sorry, that was Castertroy that said he didn't like the look.

There's definitely a price difference between the two.

[reppans]

I know someone with an RTP. He said the police look was a double-edged sword. On a multi-highway, it was great as everyone moved over and cleared a lane for him. However, on two lane backroads everyone dropped down to exactly the speed limit, and stayed there (course that could a good thing if you don't mind double-yellow passing costantly).

[Rustydust]

As a many year owner of PC800's (bought my '95 model new- now has over 85,000 on it) and a R1100RT owner I can tell you that that BMW is not going to be as trouble free as that Honda is. I guess that is one of the main reasons that I enjoy them so much. One of the reasons that they have such a fanatical following as well. I even bought a second one last year just in case something happens to my '95 model I will still have a PC to ride. My BMW is my choice for anything over 100 miles or so, and it does handle a bit better and has more power, but I don't plan on ever being without a PC800. 14 years and nary a breakdown kinda helps to make the devotion a bit stronger as well. I have had my BMW in the shop a few times, mostly warrantee work, but never the PC even once. You may want to keep that in mind.

Enjoy your BMW, or the PC if you decide to keep it. I sure have enjoyed mine.

[EuroRash]

After owning numerous BMW cars previously
and not riding for several years
I decide to get a motorcycle again

I had a old 740iL I traded for an X police bike
from an "adult" rider that has numerous motorcycles and maintains them well

I can understand the reluctance to own one
most common is how the police are trained to ride the clutch rather than use the brake
also whether it was a highway patrol vs city cop vehicle
and what type of climate it was used in

My bike originally came from Utah, though the bike was now registered in Washington

All emergency equipment was removed, was repainted (professionally, not in someones backyard)
New parts were installed.
Such as; clutch, brakes, battery and also new seals and fluids (recently received the 12k service)

Most retired RTP bikes I see advertised are straight out of an auction with no service nor even a paint job

The only issue I had was the starter failing, which I replaced with a good used inexpensive one
and installed a CD/MP3 AM/FM radio (original was removed for the police aux. battery)

I have been please so far, though have interest in a K12RS, and already have one lined up to trade

[veefer800canuck]

2 and a half years later.....

[RBEmerson]

IMHO, most of the knocks on the RTP are in the realm of beauty and the beholder's eye.  With one notable exception: BMW parts aren't cheap.  No way around the worst of it, although there are good alternative sources for oil filters, etc.  Even with DIY labor, maintenance just isn't as cheap as, for example, a Connie.  

BMW stuff is quirky in that some stuff is brilliantly engineered and some stuff... clearly the bean counters or the suits over-ruled common sense and/or good engineering practice.  Either way, fixing it just isn't cheap.  

Bottom line: if you want a BMW, fine, buy what makes your eye glad but know that BMW really does stand for "Bring Many Wallets".  If you want a smooth, good bike with fast long-haul capability and low cost for acquisition and maintenance, a C10 Connie is a good deal.  

- - -

FWIW, my previous bike was a C10.  I would have stayed with it for at least a couple more years.  Unfortunately, the engine committed suicide (hydro-locked cylinder #2) at about 60K.  Stupid me for missing the signs of impending doom (e.g., whiffs of gas at the wrong time).  About the only real gripe about the Connie was the lack of ABS.  

I think my '03 BMW K1200RS is a great ride and it does have me grinning even after the "new" has worn off.  NTL, I'm looking at some repairs (ABS is acting oddly at start up) that I know are going to have SWMBO questioning my financial sanity.  OTOH, we have two four-wheel BMW's in the garage and they've trained us well on the point that "BMW repairs aren't cheap", so where's the surprise.  

"Con" enough for ya?  

[EuroRash]

BMW "Bring Many Wallets"  

I've owned nine BMWs, and would be the last person to be accused of being rich.
I've learned how to maintain all of them and find affordable parts.

After owning many makes and models of cars & motorcycles (including Mercedes)
I prefer BMW over the rest for overall design, engineering, and performance  

If you're taking anything to a professional to repair for you
you'll always pay high prices because they're in the business to make money

[RBEmerson]

Um... try pricing out replacement shocks or a steering damper for the KRS, for example.  Compare those prices with similar UJM parts.  Not the cost to install the parts, just the cost to acquire the parts.  Yes, there are sources for the expendables and commonly worn out parts, but for everything else, Bring More Wallets.    

In the realm of four-wheel BMW's, consider this seemingly easy task: release a trapped CD from an X3 radio/CD drive.  Hint: no hole for the magic paperclip trick that works on any PC or Mac.  Short answer: Disassemble the entire center section of the dash (custom tools almost a must) just to release the radio.  Maybe get lucky with tweezers in the CD slot or replace the radio (no emergency release exists) - $800 for the radio alone (forget an after-market radio from Crutchfield).  [How do I know? BTDT - got lucky, though, as the CD drive coughed up the disk literally 8-9 weeks after the drive began ignoring eject commands.  And, yes, I've seen the YouTube video about pulling radios in X3's.  It glosses over releasing the vent assembly, which is critical to the job.  Two thumbs down]

As I said, BMW = Bring Many Wallets


Added: When BMW gets the engineering right (and they do that much more often than not), it's hard not to be impressed and delighted with the results.  But when they get it wrong...  

[cruisin]

  uh -- hmmmmmmmm -- let me think a minute;

I owned the '98 for 8 years and put about 100K on it with no problems; replaced it with the '00 that had 12.3K on purchase, so -- nope, I got nuthin' negative to say about an 1100 or 1150RT.

sorry

[atadaskew]

BMW "Bring Many Wallets"  

Right?!

BMW = Bust My Wallet, not Bring Many Wallets.

Sheesh..

[RBEmerson]

  uh -- hmmmmmmmm -- let me think a minute;

I owned the '98 for 8 years and put about 100K on it with no problems; replaced it with the '00 that had 12.3K on purchase, so -- nope, I got nuthin' negative to say about an 1100 or 1150RT.

sorry

Hey, good on ya!  I hope, once my ABS woes are sorted out, I get the same good service from my KRS.  

Keep in mind, though, the title of this topic.  The OP asked for cons and I posted to that.  

[cruisin]

The OP asked for cons and I posted to that.  

that's why I apologised at the end; had nothing negative to say.  

[EuroRash]

My 9th BMW so far
Best Machine with no Worries  

[EuroRash]

that's why I apologised at the end; had nothing negative to say.  

I figure the "cons", like with any used vehicle, would be the previous owner(s)

After owning many used cars; Imports, European, and American
In my experience, it would be how reluctant the owner is to provide history and service records (if any)

Depending on price, almost any vehicle can be repaired to be road worthy
From what I have read the boxer engine is bullet proof and the only "cons"
would be how much care was put into removing the police emergency equipment
and how resourceful you are to find affordable parts, and whether you can do your own repairs

The only "con" I can find with the RTP model is being restricted to not accommodate a passenger  
and after riding one, no other bike will be as comfortable

[ripdaddy]

  The surging problems caused me to sell my GS and my RS from the mid-90's.  The '04 1150's had double plugs which reportedly took care of the surging.  I would hesitate to buy a model earlier than an '04, though some pre 04's  surged worse than others.

[RBEmerson]

Meh... my '03 doesn't surge (unless I twist the right-hand grip hard...   ).  Right now there's only 25K on the clock, so maybe things will change.  So far, so good.  

[ripdaddy]

I rented an 1150RT for 3 weeks.

besides sounding like a sewing machine...I'm sorry...I couldn't find anything wrong with it  

good bike...good luggage...good handling.

the bike did have a mild case of surging, but it was so minor as to be insignificant to anyone but the most anal personality.

  Which, after reading this forum for years, applies to about 98% of us!

[tigertom1965]

I figure the "cons", like with any used vehicle, would be the previous owner(s)

The cons to this bike are the previous owners??
I am glad I have an 09 I bought from the BMW dealer. I won't buy anything from a con!  

[alexsystems]

From what it sounds like there are only a couple people who actually OWN an RT-P and they dont offer any opinion about it. I have a 2004 R1150RT-P and have had it for about 15,000 Miles now. I bought it with 102,000 on the clock and I have to say the only reason you wouldn't want one is because its black and white, it brings some unwanted attention. However if you are like me and strictly use it to commute 158 Miles a day 7 days a week to work and it sits in a parking lot you will be fine.  If you look into what you are buying, test it and possibly have a mechanic look at it I dont see how you could get a horrible deal. With the miles on mine there is a bit of slack in the drive as in a bit of a clunk in first gear when releasing the throttle (however my local BMW stealership says the transmissions are always loud on BMW's and mine is just fine but I dont know I havent ever bought a new BMW) but for $2500 at 15,000 miles I got the same deal as the CHP 16 Cents a mile so if it takes a dump on me tomorrow Im not losing out. But I am hoping for 50k to 100k out of the bike which should bring my costs to between 5 cents and 2.5 cents per mile to buy the bike. Hope this helps for someone looking to specifically buy a used police bike if you arent prepared for the people speeding by you and pissed off at you that they slowed down thinking you were a rozzer don't buy one. If you can accept that, thoroughly inspect it, and enjoy the most comfortable sporty ride for usually under $5000.

[dduelin]

Consider the reasons given in the 2008 report why these R1150P riders did not wish to replace them after purchasing them in 2005. Would any apply to you?

http://www.ci.costa-mesa.ca.us/council/agenda/2005-01-18/Jan%2018%20-%20APPROVE%20PURCH%20OF%20BMW%20MOTORCYCLES.pdf



http://www.ci.costa-mesa.ca.us/council/agenda/2008-04-01/APR%201%20-%20FORMAL%20BID%201121%20PURCH%20OF%204%20PD%20MOTORS.pdf