2nd season, 10 things I've learned

[chimera]

Hello all,

Start out by saying thanks to all the intelligent contributors to this resource guide.  It has been invaluable.

I'm well into my second season on the road riding a 1985 Honda Magna 500cc.  What a great scoot with a easy to use V4 that I've put about 8K miles on in one and a half seasons.  So far, the only show stopper, mechanically, has been a new coil.  She needs tires and a front fork job, maybe this winter?  A better suspension and brakes would be nice. Anyhoo....

10 things I've learned so far:
1) I am NO WHERE NEAR as good as I think I am
2) Fellow riders are awesome
3) Gravel just plain SUCKS
4) Deer also suck, just not as bad as gravel
5) The scenery never looked this good from a car
6) Zoning out is dangerous
7) Rear tires go quick
8) Most towing companies dont do bikes
9) Earplugs rule
10) Commuting has never been better

My $.02 adjusted for inflation

[black hills]

I agree with most of them, but gravel isn't that bad. You just have to get used to it. After that you won't even give it a second thought

[cultureslayer]

3) Gravel just plain SUCKS

Very much, it's a trial of your balance and low speed skills.  Stuff we don't normally have to use a lot.  

4) Deer also suck, just not as bad as gravel

Until you hit one, then they are way worse.

6) Zoning out is dangerous

extremely.  I keep a Mt. dew and some sort of snack in my tank bag so I can stop and eat a little when I start to zone out.  Don't go riding after a big meal either.

7) Rear tires go quick

Yup, had to purchase tire changing equipment.  It's easily paid for itself after a season.  After trying a Kenda rear I got free i think I might buy a set of those next time, unless I can find more race take-offs.

8) Most towing companies dont do bikes

Find a friend with a pickup and a ramp.  Towing is expensive too.

9) Earplugs rule

Yup.
[/quote]

[squeezer]

Excellent list.  
I have to agree, though, that deer suck more than gravel.  

[UHOH]

8) Most towing companies dont do bikes

AAA 'RV Plus' membership.
  'RV Plus' is an added cost, but it's worked for me.
 of course can't speak for the towing contractors in your riding area.

[atypical1]

Hello all,

Start out by saying thanks to all the intelligent contributors to this resource guide.  It has been invaluable.

I'm well into my second season on the road riding a 1985 Honda Magna 500cc.  What a great scoot with a easy to use V4 that I've put about 8K miles on in one and a half seasons.  So far, the only show stopper, mechanically, has been a new coil.  She needs tires and a front fork job, maybe this winter?  A better suspension and brakes would be nice. Anyhoo....

10 things I've learned so far:
1) I am NO WHERE NEAR as good as I think I am
2) Fellow riders are awesome
3) Gravel just plain SUCKS
4) Deer also suck, just not as bad as gravel
5) The scenery never looked this good from a car
6) Zoning out is dangerous
7) Rear tires go quick
8) Most towing companies dont do bikes
9) Earplugs rule
10) Commuting has never been better

My $.02 adjusted for inflation

Good post. A couple of quick comments (since you asked  ).

1. Remember this always. When you think you are better than you are you get lazy.

2. They can be but not all are so don't assume that!

3. Learn to not fear gravel. Gravel doesn't suck in and of itself. Not being aware of what to watch for and not know what to do when you encounter it does. Whether it is a gravel road (no big deal) to gravel in the apex of a blind turn (much bigger deal) if you know what to do it is not as bad as you think it is. Much of the riding that I do no involves roads with mystery gravel and you have to learn how to deal with it but it takes time.

5. So very true!

Looking forward to your third season lessons learned.

james

[chimera]

Thanks all!

Clarification:  Gravel roads are actually fun, I enjoy them.  Its as James pointed out, gravel on a blind corner at speed that sucks.  Bad.  I've had a close call that spooked me, maybe y'all can shed some light here......

The scenario:  30-40mph country road.  Sunlight streaking through the trees.  Getting a bit of glare and fail to notice the gravel plus, as instructed, I'm looking more toward my exit of the corner versus directly in front of me.

Front washes out, bang down on pegs/highway bars.  Here is the freaky part: I instinctively jammed down my foot (old motocross habit).  Well I managed to save it from a lowside.  Thankfully I was not traveling at such speed as to induce a highside.  BUT I do recognize the perilous nature of my automatic reaction.

The question:  Is there a way to practice lowsiding?

[atypical1]

Errrr...I would practice avoiding the lowside!

You really have to watch both the road directly in front of you and the road ahead of you in blind turns. Also make sure your speed is such that you can change your line if you need to. That just comes with practice too though. Sometimes your best bet is simply to run through it and hang on. Don't hit your brakes in the middle of it though as no good can come from that. But if you keep your line smooth you should be fine.

james

[ShawnKing]

1) I am NO WHERE NEAR as good as I think I am

Amen - and never will be but you *will* get better.

I'm one year ahead of you - it only gets more fun!

[black hills]

Errrr...I would practice avoiding the lowside!

You really have to watch both the road directly in front of you and the road ahead of you in blind turns. Also make sure your speed is such that you can change your line if you need to. That just comes with practice too though. Sometimes your best bet is simply to run through it and hang on. Don't hit your brakes in the middle of it though as no good can come from that. But if you keep your line smooth you should be fine.

james

There is a corner on my usual after work ride that always has gravel in it. It's perfect practice. Another good reason to leave yourself some room to adjust your trajectory.

[goldylocks303]

Gravel sucks way worse than deer.  Deer at least have the ability to get off the roadway when they see you.  

eD

[Mastros2]

A controlled gravel road, ie you know it's gravel, is not a bad situation at all.  You'll enjoy the back country roads soon enough!  Great list by the way!

[Malks]

Deer at least have the ability to get off the roadway when they see you.  

eD

Not really, ever see a deer try to get up off the road?

I have had two separate occasions where I have come upon deer and they were startled, slipped, fell on the road directly in front of me, and then could not get up.  Those little hooves just slip and slide all over the place because they cannot get any traction on the asphalt.  Kind of funny in a cartoon sort of way, except for the fact that they are doing this on the road right in front of you.  The last one was so close that I could hear the scraping hooves on the road as it finally got up and then fell into the ditch as I rode by.

Also, never bet that they will run OFF the road.  I have had one run down the centre of the road and then turn across my path at the last second.  The best way to avoid hitting them is to practice your emergency braking technique and give them lots of space.

Malks

[cultureslayer]

Not really, ever see a deer try to get up off the road?

I have had two separate occasions where I have come upon deer and they were startled, slipped, fell on the road directly in front of me, and then could not get up.  Those little hooves just slip and slide all over the place because they cannot get any traction on the asphalt.  Kind of funny in a cartoon sort of way, except for the fact that they are doing this on the road right in front of you.  The last one was so close that I could hear the scraping hooves on the road as it finally got up and then fell into the ditch as I rode by.

Also, never bet that they will run OFF the road.  I have had one run down the centre of the road and then turn across my path at the last second.  The best way to avoid hitting them is to practice your emergency braking technique and give them lots of space.

Malks

I'm lucky my only close encounter was a cow.  Stood there and didn't move, I went around.  This was on a foggy night, I slowed down even more after that.  

[tjhess74]

if only more newbies were like you! you seem to have a great attitude and ability to learn (hence the youre not as good as you think you are comment).  yea, gravel sucks, but if you intentionally start to ride on it you will get very comfortable on it and wont pucker when you encounter it on the street.  just expect the front end to dance a little. just hold on and steer and it will all be over soon!

[reppans]

Gravel sucks way worse than deer.  Deer at least have the ability to get off the roadway when they see you.  

Deer also have the ability to suddenly appear on the road, that was perfectly clear just a second ago.  At least gravel won't kamikaze you.

[goldylocks303]

Not really, ever see a deer try to get up off the road?

I have had two separate occasions where I have come upon deer and they were startled, slipped, fell on the road directly in front of me, and then could not get up.  Those little hooves just slip and slide all over the place because they cannot get any traction on the asphalt.  Kind of funny in a cartoon sort of way, except for the fact that they are doing this on the road right in front of you.  The last one was so close that I could hear the scraping hooves on the road as it finally got up and then fell into the ditch as I rode by.

Also, never bet that they will run OFF the road.  I have had one run down the centre of the road and then turn across my path at the last second.  The best way to avoid hitting them is to practice your emergency braking technique and give them lots of space.

Malks

I didn't say they would run off the road, I said they at least have the ability.  I've had quite a few pick up and run in the exact same path I'm travelling which really undermines any arguments that deer are even the slightest bit intelligent.  A quick blast of the horn usually corrects their trajectory though.  

I guess the counter-point to my argument is that the deer can run right into the course you take to avoid them and gravel will stay put regardless of what you do...  why the hell do we ride motorcycles again?  

eD

[DaleFranks]

What is this "season" thing of which you speak? It is not a thing we speak of here in San Diego.  

Do you not ride all year 'round?  

[black hills]

What is this "season" thing of which you speak? It is not a thing we speak of here in San Diego.  

Do you not ride all year 'round?  

Riding year round isn't just reseerved for those of you in sunny CA!! We do it here in western South Dakota too (well a few of us do).

actaully gravel is great, far better than the Ice/Snow that is underneath it!

[2RR2NV]

Also, never bet that they will run OFF the road.  I have had one run down the centre of the road and then turn across my path at the last second.  The best way to avoid hitting them is to practice your emergency braking technique and give them lots of space.

Malks

+1.  i recall riding thru the hills on the Busa w/ my brother (95 GW) and my uncle (yam Venture) and these 2 deer were on the edge of the road. as i rode up nice an slow (5-10mph), they spooked right when i got next to em. 1 got smart and jumped off into the woods. the other decides to use me as a hurdle. well, i gunned to get away since it was heading my way. i ducked, looked over at it, and it was jumping up pretty high. high enough i could see it's belly. needless to say. Busa was outta there and i was gtg. slowed to a stop further down the road and my brother pulls up and tells me the dang thing was trying hurdle me and probably would have if i hadn't dropped the hammer. WHEW!!!!  what i call a sphincter moment.

[Thundergod]

Lets see, Im on about my 18th season--

Ten Things I have learned:

1. On a double turn lane, ALWAYS choose the inside lane.
2. Count to three, look around, before proceeding through a fresh green light.
3. Miles make smiles
4. Its a lot more fun to have your honey ride with you...than to ride alone. (no communication devices of course)
5. Roads are always more slick during a short rain, than during a long rain.
6. Observe the roads for skid marks to alert you to approaching problem areas on the highway in foreign locations.
7. Drink more water while touring.
8. Don't think you can squeeze "one more ride" out of that bald rear tire.
9. Bleed your brakes, change your oil....treat your mistress with grace and respect.
10. Don't ever...ever...tailgate.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

1. On a double turn lane, ALWAYS choose the inside lane.

May I ask why you feel this way?

[gregc]

One I've worked on for years, "Mirrors are only an indicator of what's behind you.  When changing lanes ALWAYS turn your head after looking in your mirrors."

[Thundergod]

May I ask why you feel this way?

At least around here....a lot of people "fade turns" they swing wide, outside their lane. If you are in a double turn lane and the blue-haired hat wearing old man on the inside lane fades their turn.....well...it leaves you no room for escape. Ive seen some cars take headers into the intersection lightpoles due to this.

I ALWAYS chose the inside lane knowing the risks are diminished --rarely will anyone ever "cut in" from the outside lane to the inside lane... but they are very likely to change lanes at the exit of the turn if they start from the inside lane.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

At least around here....a lot of people "fade turns" they swing wide, outside their lane. If you are in a double turn lane and the blue-haired hat wearing old man on the inside lane fades their turn.....well...it leaves you no room for escape. Ive seen some cars take headers into the intersection lightpoles due to this.

I ALWAYS chose the inside lane knowing the risks are diminished --rarely will anyone ever "cut in" from the outside lane to the inside lane... but they are very likely to change lanes at the exit of the turn if they start from the inside lane.

'k.  That's rather what I figured, but I wanted the check. The inside lane can have debris (gravel, sand) on it, so I guess it's just a matter of which one is more likely to be out that day  

[2RR2NV]

i like the inside turn lane except when i'm first, then i hate it. people around here seem to think, when people are making a left turn (coming from your right), that since they don't see some regular vehicle, they can cut across your lane almost taking out your front tire. not fun. just me tho.

[Clint]

AAA 'RV Plus' membership.
  'RV Plus' is an added cost, but it's worked for me.
 of course can't speak for the towing contractors in your riding area.

MOTOW thru AMA costs $25/yr.

[blueridgerider]

10 things I've learned so far:
1) I am NO WHERE NEAR as good as I think I am

With few exceptions - no one here is.  Those exceptions are the ones talking about how much they have to learn.

2) Fellow riders are awesome

For the most part.    But, like any large group we have our fair share of assholes.

3) Gravel just plain SUCKS

Experience will lessen this feeling - but never get too comfortable with it or any surface.

4) Deer also suck, just not as bad as gravel

Gravel does not jump out in front of you - deer do.  They suck worse.

5) The scenery never looked this good from a car

I sometimes get astounded by the fact that I am riding a motorcycle.  It's been 20 + years.  If that feeling ever goes away - then I guess I'll give up riding.

6) Zoning out is dangerous

In a car as well.

7) Rear tires go quick

Look around there are good tires and bad tires.  Of course the shorter they last the less sticky they are

8) Most towing companies dont do bikes

And most shouldn't.  I've had my bike towed twice this past year, but only because it was someone else's dime.  Unless I'm out of town and pretty far away, I get wife or friend to bring my own trailer.

9) Earplugs rule

Just recently convinced a neighbor of this - unfortunately it was after he got tintinitus (sp?)

10) Commuting has never been better

I don't have as good a day at work if I have to take the truck.  I know my bike is not outside waiting for me to have a nice ride home, and that makes the day long and dreary.

My $.02 adjusted for inflation

[chimera]

MOTOW thru AMA costs $25/yr.

FYI My progressive insurance carrier subcontracts w/cross country  and covers towing for $8.- WHOLE dollars per year.

The tow I had a few months ago cost $85.- and I was about 4 miles from my house.  The representative was very helpful but couldn't find a contracted provider to come get me.  He still helped me find a tow truck company that would recover the bike. I had a truck there in under an hour.  I submitted the bill and Progressive reimbursed me within 30 days.

[Faith7]

1 prepare and check bike every ride
2 wear correct gear
3 never assume anything
4 watch left turning vehicles like they do not see you
5 watch front tire of stopped vehicles because it is your first indication of when they move
6 public streets are not safe race tracks
7 take riding safety riding courses
8 ride with fingers on clutch and brake at all times
9 ride with friends for fun and safety
10 be responsible buy life insurance for family-we all know the risk  

[Bodhi]

Scully really was a hottie.

[Prog Rocker]

The question:  Is there a way to practice lowsiding?

I guess a better question would be (especially for new riders or rider-to-be like myself) would be is there a way to practice laying a bike down on purpose?      

I have read of situations where this was done to avoid a larger catastrophe.  I would think this would be a valuable skill to learn (on an expendable bike, of course).



Cheers

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I guess a better question would be (especially for new riders or rider-to-be like myself) would be is there a way to practice laying a bike down on purpose?      

I have read of situations where this was done to avoid a larger catastrophe.  I would think this would be a valuable skill to learn (on an expendable bike, of course).

Sorry, there is never an instance where "I had to lay 'er down" is a viable excuse. Your efforts should be 100% towards stopping or swerving. "Laying the bike down" is just a stupid way for morans to make it sound like they knew what they were doing after they f*cked up.

[Prog Rocker]

Sorry, there is never an instance where "I had to lay 'er down" is a viable excuse. Your efforts should be 100% towards stopping or swerving. "Laying the bike down" is just a stupid way for morans to make it sound like they knew what they were doing after they f*cked up.

OK...I suppose that the answer is "no", then...    


Hey, I thought that it was something worth asking...!    


Cheers

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Hey, I thought that it was something worth asking...!    

Never hesitate to ask!!!  You'll get an answer, either tactfully or smart-assed (like mine   ) but at least then you'll know  

[Prog Rocker]

Never hesitate to ask!!!  You'll get an answer, either tactfully or smart-assed (like mine   ) but at least then you'll know  

I hear ya, DantesDame...better to be a smart-ass than a dumb-ass anyday...!  



Pleased to make your aquaintance, BTW...!    


Cheers

[jfurf]

One thing I liked about the MSF class... My class' instructors were cool as hell and didn't mind answering our dozens of silly of noob questions like that.

Oh, and if there are any other Atlanta-area noobies on here... highly recommend Honda Rider Education Center in Alpharetta.

[chimera]

Sorry, there is never an instance where "I had to lay 'er down" is a viable excuse. Your efforts should be 100% towards stopping or swerving. "Laying the bike down" is just a stupid way for morans to make it sound like they knew what they were doing after they f*cked up.

I respectfully disagree.  Notice RESPECTFULLY so please don't call me a moran (sp?)

Have a fair amount of DIRT riding experience.  Many a lowside on DIRT.  Much preferrable to a high side. My origional question pondered the possibilites of how this may be applicable to the ROAD.  Your assumption that it is better to swerve and steer and brake has merit.  The quandry becomes the inevitable "not if, but when".

I also partake, or have participated in, other sports such as snow skiing, water ski, snowboarding, surfing, skate, BMX, MTB, MX, etc.  Is it also better to never learn how to "take a fall" in those applications too?  Better to learn how to never crash vs take the crash well?  

You see, I would LOVE to see a course in which participants got some classroom training by qualified instructors, then dressed up like stay-puff marshmellow (over the top ATGATT), jumped on a DRZ or similar skid plated/sliders motard, hit a wet/slippery track, and LEARNED the limits of available traction.  The ultimate goal of course is to being able to INTIMATELY know the limits of traction and what to do when they are exceeded.  Plus a special trophy for the most spectacular off.......

[black hills]

I respectfully disagree.  Notice RESPECTFULLY so please don't call me a moran (sp?)

Have a fair amount of DIRT riding experience.  Many a lowside on DIRT.  Much preferrable to a high side. My origional question pondered the possibilites of how this may be applicable to the ROAD.  Your assumption that it is better to swerve and steer and brake has merit.  The quandry becomes the inevitable "not if, but when".

I also partake, or have participated in, other sports such as snow skiing, water ski, snowboarding, surfing, skate, BMX, MTB, MX, etc.  Is it also better to never learn how to "take a fall" in those applications too?  Better to learn how to never crash vs take the crash well?  

You see, I would LOVE to see a course in which participants got some classroom training by qualified instructors, then dressed up like stay-puff marshmellow (over the top ATGATT), jumped on a DRZ or similar skid plated/sliders motard, hit a wet/slippery track, and LEARNED the limits of available traction.  The ultimate goal of course is to being able to INTIMATELY know the limits of traction and what to do when they are exceeded.  Plus a special trophy for the most spectacular off.......

I agree with you, but what you are talking about is learning the limits, with a lowside as the result. The "lay er down" crowd is using the lowside as an alternative, not a result. There is a big difference.
 I too ride in the dirt, snow ski, water ski, ride mtn. bikes, watercraft, etc. I have plenty of practice with lowsides and highsides too

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I respectfully disagree.  Notice RESPECTFULLY so please don't call me a moran (sp?)

Have a fair amount of DIRT riding experience.  Many a lowside on DIRT.  Much preferrable to a high side. My origional question pondered the possibilites of how this may be applicable to the ROAD.  Your assumption that it is better to swerve and steer and brake has merit.  The quandry becomes the inevitable "not if, but when".

I also partake, or have participated in, other sports such as snow skiing, water ski, snowboarding, surfing, skate, BMX, MTB, MX, etc.  Is it also better to never learn how to "take a fall" in those applications too?  Better to learn how to never crash vs take the crash well?  

You see, I would LOVE to see a course in which participants got some classroom training by qualified instructors, then dressed up like stay-puff marshmellow (over the top ATGATT), jumped on a DRZ or similar skid plated/sliders motard, hit a wet/slippery track, and LEARNED the limits of available traction.  The ultimate goal of course is to being able to INTIMATELY know the limits of traction and what to do when they are exceeded.  Plus a special trophy for the most spectacular off.......

First off "respect" noted    
Secondly, "moran" is a joke on this board. See attached picture  

Next, learning the available limits of traction on a DRZ in a wet parking lot is fine, if you find yourself in an emergency situation on that DRZ in a wet parking lot. But what about a different bike? Different tires? Different road surface? Different speed? There are way too many variables out there to practice what they are. So while "learning how to crash" can be valuable in other sports, I just don't see how applicable it is to our sport  I feel that you're better off learning how to avoid it rather than how to deal with it.

[2RR2NV]

First off "respect" noted    
Secondly, "moran" is a joke on this board. See attached picture  

Next, learning the available limits of traction on a DRZ in a wet parking lot is fine, if you find yourself in an emergency situation on that DRZ in a wet parking lot. But what about a different bike? Different tires? Different road surface? Different speed? There are way too many variables out there to practice what they are. So while "learning how to crash" can be valuable in other sports, I just don't see how applicable it is to our sport  I feel that you're better off learning how to avoid it rather than how to deal with it.

 i was wondering where that came from. i thought i was having spelling issues cause everyone was spelling it that way. WHEW!!  now i can feel better about myself.

thanks  

[Prog Rocker]

Secondly, "moran" is a joke on this board. See attached picture  

Only in America...!  

And we wonder why people in other countries think less of us???      


AIGF,

Cheers

[Triple88a]

is there a way to practice laying a bike down on purpose?      

Instead, why not practice how to brake and swerve better?

[doodah man]

I guess a better question would be (especially for new riders or rider-to-be like myself) would be is there a way to practice laying a bike down on purpose?      

I have read of situations where this was done to avoid a larger catastrophe.  I would think this would be a valuable skill to learn (on an expendable bike, of course).



Cheers

When you lowside, the coefficient of friction of everything now contacting the pavement (plastic, metal, leather, skin, etc.) is lower than your tires.  The end result is that lowsiding takes longer to stop for both you and your bike, not shorter, than using your brakes and staying upright.  That is why lowsided bikes on the racetrack can and do take out the rider ahead of them if the rider ahead is braking.  There is no valid reason to lowside to "avoid" a crash because if you missed the object by lowsiding - you could have missed it by staying upright on the brakes too.  Therefore there is not much point in learning how to lowside on pavement unless you want a career as a stuntman or think you will someday have to slide under a semi trailer to avoid decapitation.

[Yuma]

What is this "season" thing of which you speak? It is not a thing we speak of here in San Diego.  
Do you not ride all year 'round?  

You don't get out into the local mountains????  I have had a deer standing in the road on Old Hwy 80 near Buckman Springs and I was in a group riding the Sunrise Hwy when a deer ran across the road about 10 feet in front of the leader.

By the way GOOD LIST and we should alway live by it and a few more.....

Oh YES, Year Round riding IS GREAT....

Yuma,