HARLEY BUYS MV AGUSTA AND CAGIVA

[mr moto]

interesting times ahead , harley have just bought mv agusta and cagiva in a 70 million euro deal , due to be finalised shortly . http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/mcn/2008/july/7-13/jul1108-harley-davidson-buys-mv-agusta/?content-block=1

[rockinjc]

How would you like a Harley now?  

jc

[mr moto]

How would you like a Harley now?  

jc

 take the new xr1200 engined sportster and give it an italian brutale style makeover and i am sold  

[Rincewind]

I will shit bricks if they start selling Brutales at my local HD dealers.  

[cworley5150]

I will shit bricks if they start selling Brutales at my local HD dealers.  

Oh . . .  I just had . . .  a moment.  Whew, I need a smoke now.

That's interesting news.  Lots of good stuff could come from this, but I'm not holding my breath.  I mean, HD will not even sell there own Euro marketed XR1200 here and the Buells are shunned by most HD delaerships.  Will they really sell MV's at the HD dealerships?  Doubtful, but we can always hope.  

[DaleFranks]

I gotta wonder why Harley wants MV Agusta.  Unless they want that 190-HP inline four-banger for some reason, it's hard to see what they accomplish by picking up a boutique bike manufacturer that sells less than 6,000 motorcycles per year.  Harley doesn't really do sport bikes well.  They're hardly competent at pushing Harley-engined Buells.  What they'll do with MVA is a mystery.  

IT can't be the compnay itself.  MVA makes very few bikes even in Europe, so I can't imagine the MoCo has plans to import the bikes.  MVA has had financial problems, and a buttload of debt.  I don't see what makes the company itself attractive.

It's just a wierd acquisition, for the MoCo.

Harley says it's trying to expand its presence in Europe.  OK, but they've had double-digit sales growth in Europe for the last few years, so it seems to me that their presence is already expanding quite nicely.  I don't see how owning the MVA brand makes the Harley name any more noticeable in Europe than it already is.

Odd.

Anyway, it looks like they're planning on keeping Castiglioni and Tamburini involved in the design of the bikes, so hopefully the MVA product will retain its high-end quality.

Personally, I'd love to get my hands on a F-4 1+1.

[scott-sts]

Too bad.  Harley sucks.

[rockinjc]

Not a bad deal. You get two active badges for a hundred very-large and change.

jc

[Lawn Dart]

Fascinating.  Does this obsolete Buell?  

I'm not quite "feeling" this match up.  MV and Cagiva have both had problems and I really can't see what they bring to HD's core.  Unless HD needed a distribution network in Europe?  Or, perhaps it's just diversification where HD is hoping the MV sport-bike sales (cuz there's so many of them) will help smooth out the dip in cruiser sales?

HD's got a reason for this...I just don't quite get what the reason is.

[atypical1]

HD's got a reason for this...I just don't quite get what the reason is.

Both brands appeal to high income (I know, I know stereotypes suck) owners. Buell doesn't as much which means it doesn't attract the folks with a lot of disposable income. Think of MV as another luxury good instead of a mode of transportation and it begins to make a lot of sense. This allows HD to capture more of the high end market share. Pretty good move on their part and it was the right brand to purchase.

james

[kansaskat]

The MV F4 1000 has now been officially been removed from my wish list.

[atypical1]

The MV F4 1000 has now been officially been removed from my wish list.

Isn't that kinda throwing out the baby with the bath water?

Would you really have bought one anyway?

james

[kansaskat]

If I had the money I sure as hell would have!!!!! I actually got to ride on one in KCMO last summer. It was owned by a rider from our group who let me and another guy take it 'around the block' since he knew how much we liked them. It was nice...sounded sweet and would have been a blast on the track.

[Lawn Dart]

Both brands appeal to high income (I know, I know stereotypes suck) owners. Buell doesn't as much which means it doesn't attract the folks with a lot of disposable income. Think of MV as another luxury good instead of a mode of transportation and it begins to make a lot of sense. This allows HD to capture more of the high end market share. Pretty good move on their part and it was the right brand to purchase.

james

There's more to this than just the stereotypical buyer.  HD could have gone after Guzzi - which in a lot of ways makes more sense.  Both are air-cooled idio-syncratic twins with one being just a tad more sporting than the next.  I can't see any HD owner doing some "J4 Bashing" to a Guzzi-phile.  

No, I think HD bought them for a different reason.  Maybe HD wanted the technology or the tooling?  Maybe it's case where HD thinks that MV & Cagiva are truly world class bikes simply needing a better marketing department?  

This goes beyond demographics.  HD needed something.  They don't need brand recognition, and they don't need market share (55%!) in the US.  So it could be this is being driven entirely by the demands of the Euro market.  Owning a Euro brand in Europe may relax import restrictions on HD's because they aren't a company in the EU?  Maybe HD needs a better handle on Euro-4 emissions?

Maybe they want MV because they want to give themselves a sportier, edgier image?  

Again, I'm not sure.  But this goes beyond just wanting more Market Share.  HD's trying to secure their future somehow.  They NEED something.  The question is, what?  

[ww73]

This is pure speculation on my part.  Why did HD buy MV?

We have been complaining about the lack of of "true" american made sport bikes, and thus have been spending all our money on japanese or european hardware.  Yes, we have Buell, Fischer, and Motoczysz, but none are serious threats to the Japanese manufacturers.

If HD completes the deal, then technically we have an american made sport bike, and a very good one at that.  Now, the price of the F4 is out of reach for most consumers, but what if they started to produce a 600cc or 800cc model?  Maybe priced around the same as a Japanese liter bike?  Would you buy it?

Couple this w/ the changes in AMA/DMG, we might start to see a true "American" presence in racing, given HD's resources.  It would be nice to see 4 factory MVs racing next year, no?

If these things are true, then that'd be pretty cool actually.

[Lawn Dart]

If HD completes the deal, then technically we have an american made sport bike, and a very good one at that.  

No.  What we have is a Euro made bike OWNED by an American company.  Big difference.  Noone's going to call an MV an American bike...

But I do like your thinking!

[atypical1]

Don't think of the working class guy you see riding from bar to bar. Think of the rich guy who owns a fully loaded Electra Glide, a Ducati 1098, and a huge RV. That is the one buyer they are looking to secure.

It also gives them a huge European presence with Cagiva and their "learner bikes". Perhaps it gives them more of that market and perhaps they expand the Cagiva line and include it in the US (maybe using a non-HD dealer network). Let's not forget that HD is trying hard to make a European presence with the introduction of the Euro only XR bike.

Buying Guzzi makes no sense to them because the brand is not exclusive enough. They might be trying to bring in a younger buyer into the fold but MV ain't the brand to do it (bikes too expensive). It also does not give them the market penetration that the would want.

It has nothing to do with technology. They have that in spades and if they want more they would just pay for it. This is diversification. I also would not be surprised if they played a "back seat" role in all of this. I don't see them putting MVs in HD dealers here in the US or in Europe.

james

[Rincewind]

No.  What we have is a Euro made bike OWNED by an American company.  Big difference.  Noone's going to call an MV an American bike...

Yeah that would be like saying Ducati's were American back a few years ago when they were owned by a Texas Investment company.  Or, it's like saying that Benelli's are now Chinese bikes, because they are being financially backed by a Chinese scooter company.  

From the article linked in GD, it sounds like Harley is doing this mostly for greater access into the European market.  I sort of doubt this will have much of any ramification on the home-front, unfortunately.

[atadaskew]

From the article linked in GD, it sounds like Harley is doing this mostly for greater access into the European market.

Ding! Ding! Ding!
Harley will now have 500 more outlets to sell their bikes.  While the market has slowed down in the US, it is expanding in Europe and given the strength of the Euro against the $$ this is a great move.  Harleys will be much more affordable to Europeans and the bonus is that Harley has also saved MV from going under.
If this isn't a win win situation to the motorcycling world, I do not know what is.

[Bjorn Toulouse]

I'm surprised that Comic HD hasn't come aboard to give us the "real" lowdown.


Rex