***Spoiler--the Laguna Seca MotoGP Thread***

[Yamadog]

It's almost upon us--cannot wait!

'Thumbelina' to try to race! http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/16072008/3/pedrosa-utmost-motogp.html. I'll be shocked if he finished top five; that would almost be a win!

[LicketySplat]

Why I hate Laguna:

I never, freakin' never, remember to bother to take all my winter clothes out of storage and bring them.

Except one year I remembered. That was 2006.  

[Jeff N]

Brought to you by those fine folks at MotoGPnews.

http://www.motogpnews.com/home.php?pageid=1107

And yes, Randy does talk like that.  

[Jeff]

Holy crap the writing there is brilliant!

[miles]

I was offered space in a house a bunch of friends are renting.  I was offered free tickets- with pit pass and parking in the mostest desirable of locations- and I could not go.  

Sometimes it sucks to be me.

[Jeff N]

I was offered space in a house a bunch of friends are renting.  I was offered free tickets- with pit pass and parking in the mostest desirable of locations- and I could not go.  

Sometimes it sucks to be me.

Don't you got that place in Spain?

[miles]

Yeah, and it's so damned close to the Jerez racetrack you can hear the bikes from the roof patio.  One guess as to which race I have also never been able to attend?

[Tyrroneous]

Priorities Miles, its all about priorites.  

[miles]

Priorities Miles, its all about priorites.  

Yes- sadly.

[Giaka]

Wonder what the temps are like today? I am heading up tomorrow.

[LicketySplat]

Weather's pretty normal for Laguna. Alternately freezing and rather warm in the sun. The sun hasn't come out yet down the hill in Monterey and isn't expected to all weekend. Short sleeves optional, warm jacket indispensable, light gloves a huge help, definitely bring your sun hat.

[Colorado]

The weather was great today, not to hot with the riding gear on and in the track I was in short sleaves.  Foggy right now here in Carmel but hey its always foggy in Carmel.  Here are some pics from today.























See you on the track for the parade lap tomorrow!

[Jeff N]

Proof that Pedrosa is racing.

[Yamadog]

^  

[Jeff N]

Awww, Pedrobot went home.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Jul/080719dp.htm

[arkansawyer]

FOX is broadcasting the race live at 5pm Eastern.

[DogBoy]

I think its CBS that is broadcasting the race live.

[Jeff N]

It's CBS, live at 5 PM EST, with Greg White and Kevin Schwantz and their gripping commentary.

http://www.racefantv.com/USTV.htm

[arkansawyer]

Damn, speedtv's website says fox is broadcasting it.  I'd go over there and get the link, but it takes several minutes with dial up.

I guess I'll find out who's airing it when I see it, or miss it.

[protondecay123]

Why I hate Laguna:

I never, freakin' never, remember to bother to take all my winter clothes out of storage and bring them.

Except one year I remembered. That was 2006.  

  Remembered the winter clothes when the track was melting in front of our eyes. Nice one.

It's being broadcast by CBS. Nice move by Nascar Satellite Network. They can't even get the alternate broadcaster right!

Here's the CBS broadcast schedule

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/spectaculars

Looking like 5 to 6 pm ET for the broadcast.  

[Jeff N]

2006 was a trip to hell. Monster heatwave. They postponed all the pre-race on track activities in an attempt that the MotoGP race could go off on time with minimal damage to the racing surface. Dozens of spectators were carried away due to heat prostration and Dasani was giving away their $5 bottles of water to the thirsty masses. My buddy and I were lucky enough to find some shade.

Good thing it looks like early morning fog that burns off and leaves high 70s to low 80s with a nice ocean breeze this weekend.

[protondecay123]

2006 was a trip to hell. Monster heatwave. They postponed all the pre-race on track activities in an attempt that the MotoGP race could go off on time with minimal damage to the racing surface. Dozens of spectators were carried away due to heat prostration and Dasani was giving away their $5 bottles of water to the thirsty masses. My buddy and I were lucky enough to find some shade.

Good thing it looks like early morning fog that burns off and leaves high 70s to low 80s with a nice ocean breeze this weekend.

I was there. Rode out from Arkansas along I-40 mostly. Stayed up at Big Basin State Park near Santa Cruz. By the time I got to Paso Robles I was jerky. Got some family the the Valley (San Joaquin). It was hellish there as well. I stayed under the bleachers until the race was starting.

[Colorado]

I was there also and the heat sure did suck.  Today was totally different with a light jacket or sweatshirt needed most of the day.  Tomorrow may be different as well but during the free practice 3 many teams wer testing WET race setups with full and intermediate wet tires.  Dani was NOT there and Stoner was quick again.  On the way out of the track I received an achievement award from Monterey's finest for going out of the auto exit on my bike.  One point and $130, should I fight it

[Mr Sunshine]

OMG!!!!!!!!


Jorge's MASSIVE highside

Vals pass in the corkscrew!

INSAIN!!!

[keystonejenks]

Rossi has balls the size of coconuts. That's all I'm say.

[Yamadog]

WOW! What an epic race between Vale and Stoner!
Way to go Ben!

[UPNET]

Really BIG coconuts!    

[Darkrider]

AWESOME RACE!!!!    

The first race I got see live all year and what a race.

Talk about going toe to toe:  Rossi and Stoner.

Great recovery by Stoner.  If he had crashed out, his championship chances would have too.

That will probably be the best race of the year.

The Americans had a tough race. I am glad that Hayden took 5th.  Maybe that will push him to try Ducati next year.   Lord knows melandri can't handel the bike.  Maybe Hayden can.

CBS did a MUCH better job on the coverage too.  I think the Europeans are by far the best commentators though.

Tom.

[atypical1]

What more can I say besides GREAT RACE! That was absolutely amazing to watch those two fight it out. Vale showing why he is the best and Casey showing why he won the championship last year. This guy has got a great future ahead of him in racing indeed!

james

[Santhos]

I guess we all know who wanted to win more!  This race reminded me of when Alias beat Rossi a year or so ago, making those insane passes.  What a race and in the end, Stoner did make that one mistake for Rossi to win.  Of course Stoner was not happy about the passes, but if you're in MotoGP, you better have some bigs ones as have already been stated.  

[atypical1]

Yeah, but I am always impressed by Casey and that he is able to ride on his own without giving into Rossi and making really stupid mistakes. Casey's bike wasn't as settles as Rossi's was but I think that didn't upset Casey that much. Casey is still a relatively new rider and is still learning. We will be seeing some really great things from him in the future to be sure.

james

[R Doug]

Best back-to-back passing up in front in a long time.  What a shame that Stoner lost it in the last turn of the circuit.  Goodness knows my voice may not have made it the entire race with those two boys banging one another other.  

[protondecay123]

AWESOME RACE!!!!    

The first race I got see live all year and what a race.

Talk about going toe to toe:  Rossi and Stoner.

Great recovery by Stoner.  If he had crashed out, his championship chances would have too.

That will probably be the best race of the year.

The Americans had a tough race. I am glad that Hayden took 5th.  Maybe that will push him to try Ducati next year.   Lord knows melandri can't handel the bike.  Maybe Hayden can.

CBS did a MUCH better job on the coverage too.  I think the Europeans are by far the best commentators though.

Tom.

It was certainly my favorite race of the season. The back and forth with Stoner and Rossi was awesome. That big Duc has the horses, but it was fishtailing around quite a bit.

Though Stoner did make a big mistake and really handed it to Rossi, he obviously will be a force to reckon with for a long time in MotoGP.

Greg White got a little on my nerves with the announcing, but the Speed broadcast of the AMA Supersport race with GW, Freddie Spencer and some other guy was complete feces! Putting the TV on Mute was a great help for that broadcast.

Rossi has balls the size of coconuts. That's all I'm say.

More like basketballs in my opinion. He wasn't laying down today. He took it to Stoner.

[DogBoy]

I guess the GP boys have been watching WSB.  

Best race in the last two years.  

[kevin_stevens]

That was pretty damn funny -  I was watching the two duel it out, the Ducati moving all over the place under Stoner, thinking to myself "Wow, I can't even imagine doing that!".  Then he overshoots turn 11, completely target fixates on the outside of the track (watch his helmet on the replay camera), rides off into the dirt at 20mph, and falls over.  
 
Maybe I *can* be a MotoGP racer - I can certainly imagine doing THAT!  

KeS

[swimmer]

As much as it looked like target fixation I think it might have  been more of needing to keep the bike vertical to get slowed as much as possible on a dirty part of the track.  I really thought we was going to punt rossi.

[kevin_stevens]

Yeah, but he said himself he got it slowed enough to turn in and stay on the track - he would have lost 3-4 seconds instead of the race.  It's just nice to see those guys have a brain fart now and then too.

KeS

[swimmer]

Yeah, but he said himself he got it slowed enough to turn in and stay on the track - he would have lost 3-4 seconds instead of the race.  It's just nice to see those guys have a brain fart now and then too.

KeS

I did not see that.  I stand corrected.

[kevin_stevens]

I did not see that.  I stand corrected.

BBC interview after the race.  He still complained about the early dicing, though.  

KeS

[protondecay123]

BBC interview after the race.  He still complained about the early dicing, though.  

KeS

Stoner thought that Rossi was being "too aggressive" early in the race.

Rossi swore that they never touched and he used the same braking points throughout the race.

Below is an article with the post race interviews.

http://www.redbullindianapolisgp.com/news/12074/Rossi_Forces_Stoner_To_Blink__Wins_Tense_Duel_At_Laguna

Casey is really whining here in this BBC interview. Said Rossi's passing moves were "past the point".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/motorbikes/7516543.stm

[JonS]

BBC interview after the race.  He still complained about the early dicing, though.  

KeS

The Euro announcers always say that Stoner doesn't like to race. Just head off into the sunset. Today he had to and with a guy who likes it. Rossi was not going to settle for second, period!  I loved that pass in the corkscrew!
 Rossi's team-mate, Jorge Lorenzo sure is getting good at high sides!

[LicketySplat]

Made me realize we'd been asking the wrong question about the Rossi Curse all last week.

It wasn't whether the curse was still working on Sete Gibernau.

It was whether Rossi still had the ability to do the Urbino mind-meld, reach into his opponent's throttle hand and make him steer his bike clear off the track. Hadn't seen him do that in quite a while.

The boy's got his mojo back.  

[protondecay123]

Made me realize we'd been asking the wrong question about the Rossi Curse all last week.

It wasn't whether the curse was still working on Sete Gibernau.

It was whether Rossi still had the ability to do the Urbino mind-meld, reach into his opponent's throttle hand and make him steer his bike clear off the track. Hadn't seen him do that in quite a while.

The boy's got his mojo back.  

+1

I would like to know to which deity Rossi has made his Faustian bargain.

[Jeff]

That was the first race I'd been able to watch all year, and F'in A... I'm glad it was a great one. I was thinking more like bowling balls, or just balls of cast iron, instead of coconuts. That pass in the dirt on the corkscrew that Rossi laid down was incredible. Lorenzo's highside was HUGE! That had to screw him up.


http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2008/MGP/laguna/tim07/

I watched it at my in-laws, and I'm the only one who's into bike racing. The whole family... me, wifey, in-laws, sister-in-law and her husband, were all completely sucked into the race. Sister-in-law's husband is going with me to Indy, and after watching Laguna he's totally pumped.

Jeff

[UFO]

Awesome race...between 2 riders...for a handful of laps.

Other than that you never would have known there was an actual race taking place (coverage and actual racing).  Don't get me wrong, I like motorcycle racing, but man MotoGP seems so uncompetitive.  Especially if this is considered one of the best of the year.

[DNA]

I thought it was a very entertaining race - but they cut away for commercials often and at bad points.

I expected to come back from some inane spot and have Greg White say - wow Rosssi and Stoner took each other out- it was a really bad wreck - too bad you didn't see.  


I prefer to see it whole without 35% missed for ads even if it is not live.

[Orson]

Just playing the devil's avocado here...

Is there a rule about cutting the track?

Could the race steward have docked Rossi with a time penalty?

[Jeff]

I don't think so... I think it was a heat of the moment type thing. They were going really hard, Casey tried shutting the door and Vale was just like, "F You. I'm getting by."

But the thought crossed my mind too.
Jeff

PS. Didn't Eric Bostrom do something like that once back when he was riding Superbike on the ZX7?

[Lawn Dart]

Watching that pass over and over again, I can't help but think that Rossi was completely on the edge of losing it there.  Yeah, he pushed and pushed and pushed - but I don't think he did anything wrong.  IMO, Stoner was pushing just as hard - hey, he could have given up and simply walked away.

On the other hand, he dumps the bike and it takes him 16 SECONDS to get back on - AND HE'S STILL IN SECOND PLACE???

Rossi & Stoner put on a clinic.  It really shows where the top talent is.  

Great race...up until around lap 16 when Stoner went into the kitty liter.

[TheGoose]

Is anyone but me picturing a maniacally joyful grin on Rossi's face under the face shield in that photograph? This is what he likes. Remember when he was on the Honda and would just hang around until towards the end of the race and then romp through the pack to the win? Rossi actually likes racing.

[Orson]

Having raced at Laguna (on my Superbike 2000 video computer game), the run up to the corkscew is ultra-scary looking.

You only see sky until you get right up to the corkscrew, then flick'er in  

[Stray Cat]

I didn't realize Stoner was such a whiner.  
Val hands him a big serving of this is how it's done, and Stoner reacts like he's entitled to win because Val pushed him to hard.  

[miles]

I didn't realize Stoner was such a whiner.  
Val hands him a big serving of this is how it's done, and Stoner reacts like he's entitled to win because Val pushed him to hard.  

Over on MotoGPNews there's this yes/no poll:

Stoner: happy to ride off into the scenery on a dominant package but whinges like hayden on "no family fornication friday" when challenged?

The voting is 50:1 for "yes".

[Giaka]

My son and I rode bikes up to the race and had a good time. 840 miles in two days. Woo Hoo........  It was a fun race to watch thats for sure. I am still amazed by the sound of these bikes. Its as insane as the speed!

Here is a pic with me the hot new Rockstar girls and another pic of the hottest new Honda at Laguna Seca this year.

[Jeff N]

Awesome race...between 2 riders...for a handful of laps.

Other than that you never would have known there was an actual race taking place (coverage and actual racing).  Don't get me wrong, I like motorcycle racing, but man MotoGP seems so uncompetitive.  Especially if this is considered one of the best of the year.

Didn't see the TV coverage, because I was there, baby. Lot's of mid-pack dicing with guys racing hard for points paying positions. Vermuelen pushed Nicky hard for a few before he got past, then Dovizioso and Nicky went at it for almost the entire race. And watching Spies dice it up in a pack of about 7 before things settled down was very entertaining, and that pack included Toseland, Nakano, and many others of note.

Poor Melandri can't get a break. Or maybe he can't make one for himself. He ran into the dirt at the exit of Andretti and everyone on the hillside just shrugged, as if to say, "Well, that's Marco."

It was fun standing there at the fence with fans from the UK. All the women were nutso for Rossi whilst the men were paying attention to Toseland and commenting on his every move. True manlove there.

Lot's of foreign tourists; a lot more than in years past. They wear funny clothes and speak strangely and don't seem to know about sunscreen, but we're all race fans at heart.

[Yamadog]

Stoner and Vale had words in the pits; worth a read http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/news/166590-1/rossi_vs_stoner_-_the_aftermath.html

[scott-sts]

Rossi is a maniac!  He wanted that race bad and pressured Stoner in to a mistake.  Stoner's lucky; how often can you drop your bike and still finish 2nd in a MotoGP race?  

[Tyrroneous]

Man what a race!  Best of the year so far.  


They didn't show him much, but big   to Spies for finishing well inside the top 10.  Hacking did a pretty good job as well...much better than his more experienced team mate Ant West.  

[keystonejenks]

Just playing the devil's avocado here...

Is there a rule about cutting the track?

Could the race steward have docked Rossi with a time penalty?

I think if you're crazy enough to make a pass like that, the stewards should look the other way.  

If you watch the race I don't think Rossi had the intent on going off the track, he just pushed it too hard. He's lucky in didn't get spit off the bike!!!

[LicketySplat]

Having raced at Laguna (on my Superbike 2000 video computer game), the run up to the corkscew is ultra-scary looking.

You only see sky until you get right up to the corkscrew, then flick'er in  

Plus, the top of the corkscrew is crazy off-camber. Not sure if the game showed that. I've never been on a bike there, but watching the fan lap (first time I've paid attention at all) really illustrated it. People were slowing down to about 5 mph and tiptoeing it into that corner  

[scott-sts]

I think if you're crazy enough to make a pass like that, the stewards should look the other way.  

If you watch the race I don't think Rossi had the intent on going off the track, he just pushed it too hard. He's lucky in didn't get spit off the bike!!!

I'm pretty sure running off the track is not viewed as "Cutting the course".  He took a big chance there though.  

[garry]

So what happened to the rest of the field? I mean, third place being 26 seconds off the lead? That's an eternity (almost a second per lap, every lap, off the lead pace).

[phoenix]

What I saw in this race:
Stoner and the Ducati is the best package out there, performance-wise.
Rossi is just a better rider. And the better rider can overcome a deficit in performance.
Stoner looks like he's trying to muscle through to a win, with the Ducati fishtailing and swerving all over the place. But you take one corner much too deep, and there's no recovery.
And its all part of racing. I don't expect there to be any easy passes between the 2 front runners. Not that I would ignore any bold blocking moves or other crap, but that wasn't a factor.
And then whine about it after the race is over?  

[rajflyboy]

Rossi out road Stoner big time!!   Rossi was awesome yesterday.   Making the pass stick in the dirt on the corkscrew (AKA Alex Zanardi Style)

The Duc clearly had the HP advantage out of the corners.    Rossi made up the difference in the corners!!

I love this type of motorcycle racing.   Too bad we don't see it much anymore.   GP or AMA

I kept thinking the whole time >>   The Ducati would really fit Nicky Hayden's riding style.  

[black hills]

I though it was a great race. Rossi in the dirt was the best!! As for the whining I was a bit disapointed with Stoner for that  In the end another example of why they call Rossi the Doctor!!!

[keystonejenks]

I kept thinking the whole time >>   The Ducati would really fit Nicky Hayden's riding style.  

Me too! I have my fingers crossed that he signs with Ducati next season.

[Darkrider]

Stoner's bike has more hp but Rossi's manuevers better.

On a slow track like Leguna Seca (with no long straights) , the better manuervering bike has the advantage.  Leguna Seca is supposed to be one of the hardest tracks in MotoGP to pass.

That's why Val had to get in front of Stoner and keep him from passing him and leaving him in the dust.  
Val had a excellent start for a change and used that to catch Stoner and than shut him down.
He as much said so when before the race he said that he need 30 seconds on Stoner to win tomorrrow.

Val has worked hard on making the Yahama the best manuevering package in GP.  It's not a mistake that it is the best at manuvering.

Val out thought Stoner as far as strategy and than won.  

Tom.

[rajflyboy]

Me too! I have my fingers crossed that he signs with Ducati next season.

Time Will tell

[atypical1]

To be fair though I think that you will get the worst out of a rider immediately after a race that he just lost. Not just lost but made a big mistake, dropped his bike, then had to get back onto the field again. We were definitely seeing the worst of his frustration at that point.

I think these are great lessons for Casey though. Vale has many more years and 6 more titles than Casey does so these lessons couldn't come from a better teacher. I bet him and Bayliss will share some beers over this one though and talk about lessons learned. Casey continues to impress the hell out of me from the kid who couldn't stay upright to the guy battling Vale on one of the toughest tracks out there.

LS is definitely a track that suits the better handling bikes. The Duc has some advantages over the Yam but wasn't able to use them to the best advantage.

Next stop Brno!

james

james

[Orson]

y'all are talkin' trash.

just wait til Busy Little Shop gets home so he can post a 15 picture treatise on the inherent handling advantage of the V4 over stinky inline 4s.

[Tar Snake]

All I could tell you about Laguna Seca is that it takes place sometime in July

....but that picture of Rossi is simply amazing!

[Mr Sunshine]

To be fair though I think that you will get the worst out of a rider immediately after a race that he just lost. Not just lost but made a big mistake, dropped his bike, then had to get back onto the field again. We were definitely seeing the worst of his frustration at that point.

I have to +1 that.  I saw the video where Rossi and Stoner had words and frankly Stoner was just pissed.  Nothing wrong with that...to me it doesn't make him a "whiner" like people are saying.

[1moreroad]

The race followed a 1 hour summary of the TdF.  I can't believe I was glued to CBS for 2 hours!  My wife and son watched the whole GP race, too (all of us went to LS in 2005).

Rossi is just a better rider. And the better rider can overcome a deficit in performance.

I thought Rossi was more smooth, too.  Not just with the Duc sliding around but on the throttle/brakes.  They had a little graphic about halfway through the race.  Stoner would go full throttle/full brake/full throttle/full brake while Rossi just 0.1 seconds in front of him was much more nuanced with smaller inputs.  That might be a contributor to Stoner running wide twice (he ran wide in turn 1 IIRC, too).

[Scoop]

I think much of the disparity between the top two riders and the rest of the field comes from tires.  The Michelin guys knew that they had no chance at LS and said so before the race.  Rossi was obviously not going to let Stoner get anywhere.  Stoner started out heading for his typical 20 second lead on the pack, but you could see that Rossi was ready for that and was willing to give it all to prevent it.  An amazing race by both riders, but Rossi showed why he is who he is.  He has the smarts and the calmness to beat a faster bike.  You could see from the telemetry that Rossi had a calmer hand on the throttle and the brakes.  
I think that Jorge is trying to amass a series of photos from several continents of him flying through the air, upside down!!
Oh, and some other guys were there too....
Good thing that Stoner didn't just walk with a 30 second lead.  It would have made for a boring race and many potential fans would have gone looking for NASCRAP.

[DogBoy]

Stoner's (immediate) post race comments on the BBC website:  click me

[bogthing]

How irritating, another win for Monkey Boy!.

With good luck, the next round will provide some interesting results. A bloody shame the U.S. contingent was unable to place. Time to step up lads, time to step up!

[flynfink]

Awesome race...between 2 riders...for a handful of laps.

Other than that you never would have known there was an actual race taking place (coverage and actual racing).  

I agree, coverage sucked. saw almost none of the racing except at the front. Couse, that was pretty freaking insane..

[Jeff]

I think if there hadn't been so much dicing at the front we would've seen more of the rest of the pack.

[rajflyboy]

Look out for Nicky next year on the Duc

 

[Yamadog]

MotoGPNews have their race report up, and as usual they have some gems such as

After a season of being rubbish on the Kawasaki the Aussie reject took his dire performances to a whole new sub-plateau and was comprehensively beaten by the AMA pensioner Jamie Hacking riding as a wildcard. It was Hacking's first ever ride on the Kawasaki. Or a MotoGP bike. Ever. Yet the AMA rider was just 16 seconds away from lapping West.
It was remarked later that it was fortune for Anthony that the Laguna circuit is run anti-clockwise as if it were to have run clockwise he probably wouldn't have had enough speed to climb up the corkscrew.

Link to the whole bit http://www.motogpnews.com/home.php?pageid=1108

Pretty harsh on Stoner and Vermin but then they are harsh on everybody

[Ralf]

How irritating, another win for Monkey Boy!.

With good luck, the next round will provide some interesting results. A bloody shame the U.S. contingent was unable to place. Time to step up lads, time to step up!

How irritating? Rossi made the race fascinating. Just because some Americans didn't make the podium doesn't make a race uninteresting   And this coming from a big fan of Rainey, Schwantz, Mamola, Spencer et al.

[jwhite518]

Wow! I didn't watch it but just reading the comments here tells the whole story. Wish I had seen it! Who's got it Tivo'd? Thanks for posting the shot of Rossi in the dirt. A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Scoop]

How irritating, another win for Monkey Boy!.

With good luck, the next round will provide some interesting results. A bloody shame the U.S. contingent was unable to place. Time to step up lads, time to step up!

I think that Nicky would have done better if it were not for the tires.  Spies is not sure what to do when he has not lapped half the field by the third lap.  Hacking almost lapped his "teammate", a guy who had two years on the bike where Hacking had two hours.  I would have liked to see Edwards do better, but his year has not been that bad.  

[pearsonm]

Don't get me wrong, I like motorcycle racing, but man MotoGP seems so uncompetitive.  Especially if this is considered one of the best of the year.

My theory is that when it comes to important subjects, there’s only two ways a person can answer. For example, there’s two kinds of people in this world, MotoGP people and WSBK people. Now MotoGP people can like WSBK. And WSBK people can like MotoGP. But nobody likes them both equally. Somewhere you have to make a choice. And that choice tells me who you are.

[Stray Cat]

My theory is that when it comes to important subjects, there’s only two ways a person can answer. For example, there’s two kinds of people in this world, MotoGP people and WSBK people. Now MotoGP people can like WSBK. And WSBK people can like MotoGP. But nobody likes them both equally. Somewhere you have to make a choice. And that choice tells me who you are.

Huh?
I like them both.  
They are both a form of entertainment. Nothing more.

[scott-sts]

My theory is that when it comes to important subjects, there’s only two ways a person can answer. For example, there’s two kinds of people in this world, MotoGP people and WSBK people. Now MotoGP people can like WSBK. And WSBK people can like MotoGP. But nobody likes them both equally. Somewhere you have to make a choice. And that choice tells me who you are.

I like 'em both equally.

[Colorado]

How irritating? Rossi made the race fascinating. Just because some Americans didn't make the podium doesn't make a race uninteresting   And this coming from a big fan of Rainey, Schwantz, Mamola, Spencer et al.

Rainey was at the race.  I saw him in the Yamaha box and said hello to him as we were leaving.  IMHO he would have been the best of all time had his career not been cut short.  One helluva nice guy too.

[Orson]

Rainey was at the race.  I saw him in the Yamaha box and said hello to him as we were leaving.  IMHO he would have been the best of all time had his career not been cut short.  One helluva nice guy too.

he may have been one of the best road racers of all time, although he & Schwantz tied with 25 GP wins. Who knows how many championships Saarinen would have won?

However, when you throw in Roberts' dirt riding career, riding underpowered Yamaha 650s against Harley 750s to 2 national championships, that cements him as the King in my book  

[kevin_stevens]

he may have been one of the best road racers of all time, although he & Schwantz tied with 25 GP wins. Who knows how many championships Saarinen would have won?

However, when you throw in Roberts' dirt riding career, riding underpowered Yamaha 650s against Harley 750s to 2 national championships, that cements him as the King in my book  

Since we're referencing Laguna this week...  Soon after I moved to the Bay Area, I had a chance to go down and see the last AMA race of the season.  Kenny Roberts was back from one of his first GP championships in Europe and going to run the race.  His bike had a mechanical or something in qualifying, and he had to start from the back of the pack.  He was in seventh after the first lap, second after the second, and if I recall, went on to lap all but two riders by the end of the event.

And I had decided not to go...  

KeS

[DredheadV2.0]

I think that Nicky would have done better if it were not for the tires.  

I have to wonder about that.  If the top six finishers of this race were to swap tires, would they also have swapped positions?  Were the Michelins really sucking so hard that they were a second slower per lap?

[Jeff]

If the fact that the Michelin riders were practicing on intermediate tires IN THE DRY is any indication, then I'd say yes... Michelin really screwed the pooch on this one.


http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2008/mgp/laguna/schnarvilla/Toseland_Inter.htm

Jeff

[Jeff N]

Quite a few of the Michelin riders are very upset with Mr Bib. A suggestion has been made that they hire someone who knows how to look up a weather forecast online and maybe not make their tire plans 2 weeks in advance of the event. The sight of some of them on intermediates was to laugh.

[keystonejenks]

Quite a few of the Michelin riders are very upset with Mr Bib. A suggestion has been made that they hire someone who knows how to look up a weather forecast online and maybe not make their tire plans 2 weeks in advance of the event. The sight of some of them on intermediates was to laugh.

Also, if I remember hearing it correctly, Michelin riders were only provided with two tires?  

[Orson]

Quite a few of the Michelin riders are very upset with Mr Bib. A suggestion has been made that they hire someone who knows how to look up a weather forecast online and maybe not make their tire plans 2 weeks in advance of the event.

It was the rules change that did them in, wasn't it?

I remember reading an article on how Michelin made Rossi's race tires the night before the race, based on the 24 hour weather forecast, then had them express delivered to the European venue just a few hours before race time.

[Jeff]

It was the rules change that did them in, wasn't it?

I remember reading an article on how Michelin made Rossi's race tires the night before the race, based on the 24 hour weather forecast, then had them express delivered to the European venue just a few hours before race time.

I've heard that as well. One would think a big company such as Michelin would be able to adapt after 1.5 years.
Jeff

[Yamadog]

I've heard that as well. One would think a big company such as Michelin would be able to adapt after 1.5 years.
Jeff

One would think so, but in my experience the larger the company the larger the bureaucracy, not unlike the US Government.

[Mr Sunshine]

One would think so, but in my experience the larger the company the larger the bureaucracy, not unlike the US Government.

Bridgestone is the largest tire manufacture in the world.  They don't seem to be having a problem.

[Yamadog]

Bridgestone is the largest tire manufacture in the world.  They don't seem to be having a problem.

I take your point; I thought Michelin were larger, but it could be the difference between a Japanese company and French, or it might have no bearing at all. Might simply be the corporate culture, peter principle, or?

But my comment was based on working in a SD8(a) business which graduated. When I first started there, we had no HR department or employee manual or any other trappings of a large corporation. But as the company grew, the bureaucracy eventually got their talons in, and the once flat management structure became hierarchical and on and on. My older sister worked for MaBell and her work environment reminded me very much of government bureaucracy (which I saw from both military and civilian sides.)
YMMV

[DogBoy]

The previous CEO of Michelin was killed in (I think) a boating accident in late 2006. Michelin's MotoGP effort has been uneven ever since.

[black hills]

Hmm...... an "accident" you say??? Sounds very suspicious to me.......

[scott-sts]

The tire issue hasn't received enough attention, IMO.  It's a HUGE issue and has much to do on the outcome of MotoGP races.  Bridgestone knocked Michelin off of the top step by winning the championship and stealing Rossi.  They were the tire to have and are falling hard!

[Mr Sunshine]

Colin Edwards was quoted that Rossi getting off Michelin's was the best thing for all of the other Michelin riders.  This is because Rossi rides a tire so firm that nobody else likes it but Michelin was making those for everyone.  Stoner and Rossi apparently like a similiar tire...rock solid.  So Michelin has now been making tires more for everyone else.

[Mookie]

Too bad they forgot to bring them to Laguna  

[DredheadV2.0]

Too bad they forgot to bring them to Laguna  

Snerk

So everyone else likes sucky tires, essentially?

[Mookie]

Nah, but there was a $5 bet on who could lap laguna the fastest on intermediates in the dry  

[JonS]

Look out for Nicky next year on the Duc

 

I thought the same thing about Melandri, last winter.  

[Oscar]

I thought the same thing about Melandri, last winter.  

+1

I suspect we will see Nicky follow in the steps of the young Mr. Roberts.

[Darkrider]

Hmm...... an "accident" you say??? Sounds very suspicious to me.......    



Ditto.

Tom.

[awlittle]

Somehow my TIVO didn't record the damn race.  
Does the motogp.com subscription give access to previous races?  

[protondecay123]

Yes, it does.

[pearsonm]

Somehow my TIVO didn't record the damn race.  
Does the motogp.com subscription give access to previous races?  

Check the Assen Sachsenring thread (the one I missed). Someone said it's $50 for a season?

[FJR-UK]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2008/MGP/laguna/tim07/

Okay, I've come late to this discussion and you've discussed the race already. I've still got my two penneth to add:

The gaffer said the MotoGP racing is uncompetitive and he could be right. If so, watch the 250's or especially the 125's. For the most part, you don't know the winner till the finish line in those races!

Now, Rossi/Stoner.

First, that's a terrific photo and shows what Stoner was complaining about. However, Stoner's complaints were immediately after the race and before he had a chance to review race films. I'll bet, after seeing what we saw, he will moderate his tune, even if not in public.

Rossi said before the race, when asked if he would be competitive, that he had had a word with the race organizers and they had agreed to allow him to start 30 seconds before Stoner. He knew Stoner had set faster times and had a faster bike in the straights. He also said that to win, he would have to lead from the start.

That is exactly what he did. If Stoner passed, Rossi passed him back in the next corner.

The photograph:

Rossi had just been passed. He committed to repassing Stoner in the next corner, but Stoner closed him down. His only line short of collision was to take the inside. Stoner was forced wide (no contact, mind) and there lies his complaint. But, when Stoner sees the race film, he will marvel that Rossi didn't take the both of them out. To come off the dirt and onto the edge of the tarmac without losing it was a wonderment to me. (Maybe, even Rossi if he's honest.)

I'm sure a lesser rider would have taken them both out.

Stoner would have kept up the fight, but his rear was stepping out on him.

The race of the year in my book, just for watching those two for 16 laps.

Chris Vermeulen did well, too.