it's just a Norge... right ?

[surfsup]

been sorta thinking about a single bike to replace my HD and provide more sportiness and the buell XB12XT is high on the list (link below)

second place on the short list goes to the norge.  

so i have arranged a tire kicking session and test ride this friday with our local goose dealer (60 miles away) - it is an awesome dealership (beemers and trumps too) and he has 2 reds/ 1 black - all 2008s - he seems motivated.

the pluses for the norge (over the buell) imo, are looks, a few extra gadgets, fairing protection, and the gooses are so classy.

i'm getting that feeling... ya know?!  

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,29160.0.html

[scott-sts]

Someone post a pic of this bike.  I'm following Surfsup's dilemma closely.

[kendenton]

I love both of those bikes.  Good chance the Norge will be my next bike.  I've ridden both several times at demo events.

The Norge won't cook you with engine heat like the Buell.

The Norge won't shake like a paint mixer at idle.

[surfsup]

I love both of those bikes.  Good chance the Norge will be my next bike.  I've ridden both several times at demo events.

The Norge won't cook you with engine heat like the Buell.

The Norge won't shake like a paint mixer at idle.

2 good points and noted...   i have read as much as i can on these 2 (and many other) bikes - but the test ride will tell much more. obviously you were impressed. being a lover of torque, air cooling, and maintenance simplicity - the choices are few in the ST world.

[kendenton]

I do like the Buell as well, but the heat, the very loud fan, and the cheap-looking clocks/switchgear keep me from loving it.  The low, low maintenance is a plus though.

My mind likes the Buell, but after riding the Norge my heart was won over.

[surfsup]

Someone post a pic of this bike.  I'm following Surfsup's dilemma closely.

what - you think i'm that easy... ???

[kendenton]

Someone post a pic of this bike.  I'm following Surfsup's dilemma closely.

[scott-sts]

Ah, thanks for the pics.
I think the Norge may cook you more than the Buell.  Naked bikes don't get hot air trapped EVERYWHERE the way faired bikes do.

I like the Buell, and it's probably less expensive, huh?
If you look at the windscreens, it looks pretty close as far as weather protection too.

[atypical1]

You would think that...but that friggin' Buell was a furnace. And it shook like a meth addict waiting for a fix. Uck...I will never ride another Buell. But, they are cheap.

james

[kendenton]

...And it shook like a meth addict waiting for a fix...

james

Of course, it's fix was just some revs, but still funny  

[SuperRat]

Before I start I have to admit I'm biased since I own a Guzzi with over 70k on it and once you own one you are hooked.   You get that sweet big twin torque w/o the shaking that a 45' v has.  I recently rode a new Buell at a Harley demo days. Very nice bike but hot and really a shaker at idle. I'll admit it smoothed out at speed but that is due to it's iso-mount engineering not the smoothness of the motor. That would be a potential red flag to me for long term ownership. With the Guzzi you get good primary balance in the engine and shaft drive for life.   Buell might have a bit more power but they are both push rod twins so again basic engine design comes into play. (I pray to the Guzzi gods each night that they will en-lighten management to add the 4v to the Norge  ) I don't like the Guzzi rear trunk but a nice GIVI would be just the ticket.

My choice would be the Guzzi but as I said. I'm biased.

[sagerat]

My Breva 1100, which is basically a Norge w/o the tarting up via bodywork and 50cc's more mill, doesn't get that warm.  I'll get a little heat off of the cylinder (jugs are in the air on the Breva) but not very much.  Even with the Norge being slightly more enclosed in terms of the jugs, I doubt you'll see a lot of heat.

By contrast when I test rode a Uly, I was the Human BBQ.  I really, really, really wanted to love that bike, but the heat, the shakes at idle, and the howling of the cooling fan (think F4 Phantom on afterburner) killed the tryst before it began.

[keystonejenks]

If you're looking at the Buell, why wouldn't you consider the Tiger 1050?  

[surfsup]

rear chain maint, radiator, valve adjustments*... 3 no-gos for me! but it is a sweet bike for anyone without similar criteria.


*i am looking at the norge as my #2 choice, which has 6k valve intervals - but with guzzis that is an easy task

[keystonejenks]

rear chain maint, radiator, valve adjustments*... 3 no-gos for me! but it is a sweet bike for anyone without similar criteria.


*i am looking at the norge as my #2 choice, which has 6k valve intervals - but with guzzis that is an easy task

Okay, I was just curious.

[prshguy]

Looking forward to your thoughts after the test ride.  Recently did the same but came away with mixed feelings.  Hopefully your dealer has set up the bike better than mine did.  I'm very interested to hear how the bike was for vibes at various rpm and if you notice any surging with light or trailing throttle.  Have fun!  

[surfsup]

Looking forward to your thoughts after the test ride.  Recently did the same but came away with mixed feelings.  Hopefully your dealer has set up the bike better than mine did.  I'm very interested to hear how the bike was for vibes at various rpm and if you notice any surging with light or trailing throttle.  Have fun!  

i'll be on the lookout for these concerns... and report back

[surfsup]

My Breva 1100, which is basically a Norge w/o the tarting up via bodywork and 50cc's more mill, doesn't get that warm.  I'll get a little heat off of the cylinder (jugs are in the air on the Breva) but not very much.  Even with the Norge being slightly more enclosed in terms of the jugs, I doubt you'll see a lot of heat.

By contrast when I test rode a Uly, I was the Human BBQ.  I really, really, really wanted to love that bike, but the heat, the shakes at idle, and the howling of the cooling fan (think F4 Phantom on afterburner) killed the tryst before it began.

yea... no complaints about heat on the norge from any of the reviews i've read. most complaints are low power and dragging centerstand... which is supposed to be easy to fix the latter. i am concerned about the power, but i am not looking for a rocket sled either. i'll give it a fair chance.

[surfsup]

due to morning rain, i decided to go pick up my boat and put the guzzi test ride off till tomorrow. i don't mind riding in the rain, but the HD is spit shined ready to "trade".

so this afternoon... i decided to go test ride (close to home) one of the more "complex" motorcycles that i have on my list - just in case the guzzi or the buell don't float my boat... a brand spanking new FJR!!!

WOW... that is a very nice machine. not too big and bulky like a concours (which sat right beside it on the showroom) - yet big enough to feel planted on the road. having not been on an ST for several years, i was amazed at how quickly and easily i fit into the environment that the FJR provides the pilot. everything seemed to be 'right there' and very user friendly. leaving the parking lot, the front rake was street smart, it felt like it hunted the path i wanted to go without a fight - but with plenty of precision to remind me it was ready for sport. the ride was short but i did get to hit a half dozen wimpy curves, which i pulled though the apexes with throttle as best as flat curves will allow - any gear would do. coming out of the curves at what felt like maybe 55mph i look at the speedo and i'm bumping 70mph... yup i grinned, this bike is trouble. fun - but trouble. i would have liked to have taken her out to a 75mph ramp or piece of slab to get a feel for the I4 vibes. at 60mph in 5th gear i was looking for 6th - due to the feeling i was getting in the hand grips. keep in mind i ride a harley, and at 60mph it is totally relaxed with not a hint of vibes. i did get a good variation of windshield effects as i cycled through up/down/up/down switch (neat-o). several of the settings would be very useful for my 5'11'' frame. the temps today were in the high 80s/ humid and at several stops the bike did not seem to be swamping me with heat (yay!!) - or no worse than my HD, which is very tolerable.

oh yea... my wife looked at the pics and likes the rear seat set-up... "not too perched up looking" says swmbo. she will get a run on it before i make any final decisions. its too early to tell how i might like it on long days in the saddle - but i do know that it is initially more comfortable than my 2003 concours and and in the short 2 years and 20k mile we rode together, i put several 500/600 mile days on her - and at least 1 or 2 800+ mile days!

i hope i didn't make a mistake by trying this bike on... it really doesn't meet my initial criteria.    

[iguana]

I spent some time earlier this year looking for a sport tourer. Managed to talk all the local dealers into giving me rides on everything they had in - C14, FJR, Norge, Multistrada, 4 different BMWs, ST1300, all in the space of a week. The local Yamaha dealer also caries Moto Guzzi, so the sales dude twisted my rubber arm into taking the Norge and FJR out back-to-back. I enjoyed the ride on the Norge - good ergos, good air managment, very good looks, lots of personality. Then I hopped on the FJR, and there was no comparison, except in the looks area. I still think the Norge's a great-looking bike, while the FJR's just good-looking. But I plan on spending more time riding the bike than looking at it, and the FJR's power, handling and smoothness just blew the Norge away. (The Norge is seriously underpowered compared to all the rest. It is adequate on my test ride, but if felt as if it would struggle 2-up going over mountain passes.) I told the sales guy that if his strategy was to use the Norge to sell FJRs, he was doing the right thing.

Comparing the FJR to the other bikes? The C14 was a rocket, but felt clumsy and heavy at low speeds. Air management wasn't quite right - I either got major helmet buffeting, or no protection at all. Loved the Multistrada, but no lower fairing. I really, really want to like BMWs, which is why I took out 4 of 'em, but they were all merely competent rides, not great. I'd compare the ST1300 to an Accord - nice piece of engineering, smooth, capable, but boring. Heavy, to boot. Best wind protection of the bunch, though. Did I mention that I loved the Duc? Maybe not quite as powerful as the FJR, but ever-so-slightly better handling. AND it has that Ducati sound. But I need the lower fairing, and an ST3/4 is just too ugly.

One other thing about the Norge - the ambient temp was around 15 degrees C/ 68 F, yet my right leg was cooking after 20 minutes, most of it spent over 50mph.

So, the FJR was the clear winner for me, and I'm still looking for a good 2007 to buy. Now, if only Triumph made a lower fairing for the Tiger (and don't say "Sprint ST" - the ergos on that bike don't work for me).

--iguana

[prshguy]

due to morning rain, i decided to go pick up my boat and put the guzzi test ride off till tomorrow. i don't mind riding in the rain, but the HD is spit shined ready to "trade".

so this afternoon... i decided to go test ride (close to home) one of the more "complex" motorcycles that i have on my list - just in case the guzzi or the buell don't float my boat... a brand spanking new FJR!!!

WOW... that is a very nice machine. not too big and bulky like a concours (which sat right beside it on the showroom) - yet big enough to feel planted on the road. having not been on an ST for several years, i was amazed at how quickly and easily i fit into the environment that the FJR provides the pilot. everything seemed to be 'right there' and very user friendly. leaving the parking lot, the front rake was street smart, it felt like it hunted the path i wanted to go without a fight - but with plenty of precision to remind me it was ready for sport. the ride was short but i did get to hit a half dozen wimpy curves, which i pulled though the apexes with throttle as best as flat curves will allow - any gear would do. coming out of the curves at what felt like maybe 55mph i look at the speedo and i'm bumping 70mph... yup i grinned, this bike is trouble. fun - but trouble. i would have liked to have taken her out to a 75mph ramp or piece of slab to get a feel for the I4 vibes. at 60mph in 5th gear i was looking for 6th - due to the feeling i was getting in the hand grips. keep in mind i ride a harley, and at 60mph it is totally relaxed with not a hint of vibes. i did get a good variation of windshield effects as i cycled through up/down/up/down switch (neat-o). several of the settings would be very useful for my 5'11'' frame. the temps today were in the high 80s/ humid and at several stops the bike did not seem to be swamping me with heat (yay!!) - or no worse than my HD, which is very tolerable.

oh yea... my wife looked at the pics and likes the rear seat set-up... "not too perched up looking" says swmbo. she will get a run on it before i make any final decisions. its too early to tell how i might like it on long days in the saddle - but i do know that it is initially more comfortable than my 2003 concours and and in the short 2 years and 20k mile we rode together, i put several 500/600 mile days on her - and at least 1 or 2 800+ mile days!

i hope i didn't make a mistake by trying this bike on... it really doesn't meet my initial criteria.    

Well, we're of similar minds.  You've hit on my dilemma also.  The power of the FJR is hard to resist.  I had a 2005 FJR for about a year but sold it to get the finances under control.  I had a chance to ride a buddies FJR recently and it was quite a contrast. I'd gotten used to the STs weight but getting on the FJR reminded me why I prefer a SPORT-touring bike over a sport-TOURING bike.  So, for me it's down to either the Norge or FJR.  While I've read the concerns about the Norge not having as much power as the current Japanese STs, I think they may be missing the way character of the Norges power.  

In the early 90s, Suzuki made v-twin called the VX-800.  In my opinion it had a great motor with that classic v-twin grunt but the reviews complained it wasn't fast enough.  Outright speed isn't everything though, how the power is delivered can be just as much or even more appealing than how much is delivered.  Course, all the other factors have to line up for you too and that's an individual choice.    

[WitchCityBallabio]

I'm not sure how either of you drove the Guzzi, but typically Guzzi's make their power from 4000 rpm up. That's where things really start happening. I've watched people unfamiliar with the Guzzi curve, shift and run these things at 2-2500 rpm and be disappointed with it's performance. Coming from a Japanese inline four or V four, you may be used to having more acceleration down low in the rpm range. It definitely won't have the HP of the FJR or ST, but the usability of the HP it does have makes it a lot of fun to ride and I think you'd be hard pressed to lose the Guzzi in the twisty stuff.

[sagerat]

Guzzis aren't about eye-ball flattening power, but rather gobs of usable real world power.  Get the Norge into the 5-7K range and see how it handles the twisties.  

[surfsup]

the feejer won... the bike, the dealer, THE DEAL, etc.

i had to compromise on my initial criteria... but it was a compromise with a grin.  

[prshguy]

the feejer won... the bike, the dealer, THE DEAL, etc.

i had to compromise on my initial criteria... but it was a compromise with a grin.  

Curious about your impressions of the Norge, care to share?

[surfsup]

i had every intention to go to the guzzi and the buell dealer this morning, but never made it - i was up at 0600 and got all my chores done. at 0915 the yamaha dealer called - he knew where i was heading - after about 45 minutes with back and forth phone calls, he met my magic number - the figure i had reserved that would cause me to look no further.

to be honest i was pretty smitten over the feejer - i didn't expect that - it really is a very well sorted out piece of gear.

i am pretty sure that neither the buell or the guzzi would have changed my mind especially knowing where the yamaha/ harley trade was at.

i sorta feel bad about not giving those fine bikes a fair shake - maybe next time?  

al