Why are BMWs so overpriced?

[1moreroad]

Why are BMWs so overpriced compared to higher performance Japanese bikes?

(Atypical asked me to post this here)

 

[atypical1]

 

[atadaskew]

The real question is why are they so cheap?
They do stuff like use two coats of paint compared to the Japanese one coat.

[TheGoose]

[kevin_stevens]

Why are BMWs so overpriced compared to higher performance Japanese bikes?

(Atypical asked me to post this here)

 

See, that's a great way to couch your argument - you *assume* the conclusion - that BMWs are overpriced; so there's no way to refute the position.

It's a really great technique, politicians and other assorted scum have been using it successfully for thousands of years.  (see how I turned that around?)

KeS

[atypical1]

This could turn out to be the best thread ever...

james

[1moreroad]

See, that's a great way to couch your argument - you *assume* the conclusion - that BMWs are overpriced; so there's no way to refute the position.

It's a really great technique, politicians and other assorted scum have been using it successfully for thousands of years.  (see how I turned that around?)

KeS

So says the Kwak and Duc rider who so obviously agrees with me in deed if not (yet) in word.

[rockinjc]

Kraphtzmanship.  

[UFO]

Same reason people spend $5 for a cup of fru-fru coffee.

Perception.

[atypical1]

Same reason people spend $5 for a cup of fru-fru coffee.

Perception.

Is that why you bought that pig of a VFR instead of the cheaper and better CBR?  

james

[rockinjc]

Jay Leno is not going around saying any bikes are over priced. Maybe we are all under funded.  

j

[1moreroad]

Jay Leno is not going around saying any bikes are over priced. Maybe we are all under funded.  

j

Jay Leno could probably hand out bikes from his garage and keep a good % of STNers happy (a few of them will b!tch even if they got free bikes).

[atypical1]

(a few of them will b!tch even if they got free bikes).

Truer words were never spoken...

james

[rockinjc]

Anybody got some nice red paint for this crappy ol' Vincent my buddy Jay gave me? The nerve of him, he knows I hate dark colors!

jc

[DogBoy]

Shouldn't this be in General Sport-Touring Discussion?

[atypical1]

Shouldn't this be in General Sport-Touring Discussion?

You would think that based on the last few posts in there  

james

[TheGoose]

Kraphtzmanship.  

Ja!

You owe me a new keyboard.

[Ghost Dog]

I think it's about time for another helmet laws thread.

[kevin_stevens]

So says the Kwak and Duc rider who so obviously agrees with me in deed if not (yet) in word.

I didn't say BMWs were overpriced, I said I wasn't willing to spend the money for one.  Big difference.

KeS

[DaleFranks]

Part of the reason may be that they come with heated grips, seat, ESA, etc., etc.

They aren't gicing those goodies away for free.

On the other hand, paying $1000 for a stereo "prep kit" thren another $600 for an FM radio seems...unwarranted.

[atadaskew]

So says the Kwak and Duc rider who so obviously agrees with me in deed if not (yet) in word.

I do not agree with you. I like the idea of having 2 coats of paint.  It's like having a whole new bike under the first coat.

[CRFJohn]

BMW does not sell bikes in the numbers that the Japanese do, they have to make more per bike. There are laws in Europe dictating vacation time paid to employees and other mandated benefits. I would say if compared to Harley-Davidson, BMW is underpriced and light years ahead

[R Doug]

I got bored this evening and did the following spreadsheet.  I know some of these bike comparisons are not exactly apples to oranges, but it's interesting information nevertheless.

Look at and talk amongst yourselves.  

[R Doug]

IMHO if I had to choose one bike per category, here would be my choices and whether or not the price of the BMW was a factor…

R1200GS:  it would be a close call between this and the 990 adv.  The final decision would NOT be influenced by price.  

F800GS:  Because I would want something more dirt worthy, it would be the KTM.  But, I would get a better seat for the 690 and Tourtech cases which would add to the price.  My decision here would NOT be influenced by price.  

K1200S:  If I were looking for a sportbike with nice comfort, this would be on the top of the list.  However, given my taste, I would pick the 1098.  With that said, the 1125R would get a solid look if I were looking for better ergos.  This decision would NOT be influenced by price.  

K1200R:  I’ve already made my choice given the fact I ride a Super Duke.  This decision would NOT be influenced by price.  

R1200S:  Tough call here because I like the Monster.  But, I would pick the BMW and it WOULD be influenced by its price… but not in a bad way.  

K1200GT:  Now here’s the one I really struggle with.  A base price is nearly $19 LARGE!?  I would pick something else and it WOULD be influenced by the price of the BMW.

F800ST:  I would like to ride the 800 twin, it seems like a good deal too.  But, given the choices, I would prefer the Ducati Multi.  This decision would NOT be influenced by price.  

In conclusion, I don't believe BMW motorcycles are grossly overpriced for the most part.  But, I do struggle w/ the price of the GT.  I know it has a lot of bells and whistles.  But, for the price difference, you can easily add most of the features to another bike and still be way under in price.  

[Global Rider]

Why are BMWs so overpriced?

$8060 out the door divided by 18 years = $448 per year...and it still has a value of about $8000. Sounds cheap to me.  

I've known a lot of local riders that buy and sell every few years. The money they lose on the bike, not to mention all the money spent on farkles would buy my bikes.  

[DangerMoney]

BMW does not sell bikes in the numbers that the Japanese do, they have to make more per bike. There are laws in Europe dictating vacation time paid to employees and other mandated benefits. I would say if compared to Harley-Davidson, BMW is underpriced and light years ahead

In addition the labor laws in Germany are pro-employee compared to other countries resulting in higher company overhead costs. The money to cover those costs has to come from somewhere. As others have pointed out, one needs to compare fit & finish as well.

[DredheadV2.0]

I got board

Is that like getting wood?

[R Doug]

Is that like getting wood?

I suppose it is.

I also got lazy with proof reading.  BORED!

[DredheadV2.0]

I suppose it is.

Spreadsheets are kinky.

[atadaskew]

Spreadsheets are kinky.

you should see what he can do with Powerpoint...

[R Doug]

you should see what he can do with Powerpoint...

I usually have to wait until wifey goes to bed before launching Powerpoint.  

[DredheadV2.0]

I usually have to wait until wifey goes to bed before launching Powerpoint.  

Oooh, I bet you're all like "American Piechart"

[UFO]

Is that why you bought that pig of a VFR instead of the cheaper and better CBR?  

james

My 6' 2" doesn't fit on a CBR.  Not unless I want to ride around with my legs spread open like a kite to avoid banging my knees on the tank cut outs.  And the

VFR is only a pig on a track.  It handles just fine for the street.

[Mac]

Oooh, I bet you're all like "American Piechart"

I don't care who you are, thats funny right there.

[1moreroad]

PEOPLE!PEOPLE!  It appears that some people are starting to take this thread seriously!  WTF?

I didn't say BMWs were overpriced, I said I wasn't willing to spend the money for one.  Big difference.

KeS

You're a cheap ba$tard or they're overpriced.  You pick.

[twist]

Why are BMWs so overpriced compared to higher performance Japanese bikes?

BMW's are not overpriced.  Japanese bikes are underpriced.

[atypical1]

My 6' 2" doesn't fit on a CBR.  Not unless I want to ride around with my legs spread open like a kite to avoid banging my knees on the tank cut outs.  And the

VFR is only a pig on a track.  It handles just fine for the street.

But the paper figures show the vfr is a pig...the magazines love the cbr...and the cbr is cheaper...

you mean there are some intangibles that make you prefer the vfr?  

damn vfr owners are as bad as bmw owners...

hmmmm, did I just post this in the wrong forum?

james

[Lawn Dart]

Why are BMWs so overpriced compared to higher performance Japanese bikes?

(Atypical asked me to post this here)

 

Fecking BRILLIANT!  

 

[Lawn Dart]

I got bored this evening and did the following spreadsheet.  I know some of these bike comparisons are not exactly apples to oranges, but it's interesting information nevertheless.

Look at and talk amongst yourselves.  

Although I have a couple minor alterations to this this (ie:  CBR1000RR compares more directly to the R12S...or th enew Deutchland Super-bike not yet released), this is a good start.

Excellent effort Doug.  Excellent Effort.

[DrD]

Excellent effort Doug.  Excellent Effort.

Sure is.  One change I would suggest:  Ditch the K1200GT and put in the R1200RT.  The RT is more in line with the features of the other bikes and is priced at $16,800.

As noted earlier in this thread, one reason BMW has to price the bikes like they do is they sell so few bikes.  So, rather than throw stones at them, why don't you help them with this problem -- Every STN'er should buy a BMW motorcycle so BMW can lower the prices.  

[kevin_stevens]

The K1200S isn't really matched against the R-1, it is comparable to the ZX-14 and Hayabusa.  But I understand that Yamaha doesn't have a more comparable product in their lineup.

KeS

[Global Rider]

I got bored this evening and did the following spreadsheet.

I got my BMW GS Adventure for $2500 less than the ST1300 and FJR1300 I was also looking at at the time. BMW gave me $3700 off MSRP; Honda and Yamaha weren't willing to move very much on price.

[R Doug]

Excellent effort Doug.  Excellent Effort.

Thanks.  I would be happy to make any updates.  As previously discussed, I really get into my spreadsheets.  

I'll need to think about how I could make a piechart on this.  

[atypical1]

I would compare the VFR and R12S. K12R and S4S.

Excellent start though.

james

[chimera]

Question:  Does BMW offer German delivery on their bikes like they do their cars?  How about military pricing?

When I was stationed in Germany picked up a BMW car for a song through military discount.  The saleslady told me straight out BMW gets a healthy profit margin on U.S. sales.  I saved nearly $8K on a 3 series and BMW STILL made a profit off me. Yeah, there are some shipping charges, dealer overhead, etc but not $8k worth on a $37K car.

If this pricing strategy translates over to the bikes then they might be getting a little extra for status.

[twist]

I'll need to think about how I could make a piechart on this.  

[CRFJohn]

 

[Lon]

damn vfr owners are as bad as bmw owners...

Well, if you average the price I paid for my BMW and my VFR, you come out to ~$3750 each, and I bought the BMW in early-ish 2006... I think?

I wouldn't call that overpriced

[awlittle]

Question:  Does BMW offer German delivery on their bikes like they do their cars?  How about military pricing?

When I was stationed in Germany picked up a BMW car for a song through military discount.  The saleslady told me straight out BMW gets a healthy profit margin on U.S. sales.  I saved nearly $8K on a 3 series and BMW STILL made a profit off me. Yeah, there are some shipping charges, dealer overhead, etc but not $8k worth on a $37K car.

If this pricing strategy translates over to the bikes then they might be getting a little extra for status.

Yes to question the second: http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/promos/index.jsp
Don't know about European delivery on bikes. 

As for the topic question, I always thought the price premium was to keep people like burnergold2B out of the dealership. 

[Oilhed]

Simple - to keep the resale value up.  Or to keep the riff raff out of the fancy showroom.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

You pay more, so I don't have too.

j/k

[stewm_21]

Selfish swine that dare question the cost of the mighty BMW.  If they didn't charge what they do then how would Charlie and Ewan get around the world and down to the cape?  How would Charlie be able to ride in the Dakar with 2 other blokes?  
 
 

True story- When I picked up my bike the salesman gave me a free hat and I looked at him on as we stood on the sales floor with other customers, started to laugh and said "for what I just paid and all I get is a free hat, you shitting me or what?"  And that was after getting a good deal on the bike.  Glad he had a sense of humor.  

[BigHoss]

I used to think the BMW was over priced but after buying the hYM I have to say the Italian stuff is way over priced...the frickin fasteners are shite and the welds look like braille.....but I like it anyway.

[1moreroad]

True story- When I picked up my bike the salesman gave me a free hat and I looked at him on as we stood on the sales floor with other customers, started to laugh and said "for what I just paid and all I get is a free hat, you shitting me or what?"  And that was after getting a good deal on the bike.  Glad he had a sense of humor.  

Better than when I took my near new Saturn to the dealer for its 3rd leaky shock seal before the car reached 6 months old.

The service writer's comment:  You only paid $15,000 for the car.  What did you expect?

[Rocket_Cowboy]

The service writer's comment:  You only paid $15,000 for the car.  What did you expect?

Hmmm ... to which your responses should have been "for $15000 I should have planned for another pair of shoes, cuz I'm not going to want this one back after it's retrieved from up your ass"