Some Harley owners still delusional about their bikes' value

[atadaskew]

So I've been browsing cycletrader.com, looking at street bobs.
The 2009 is listed at $13000.  There are more people than I can count who are trying to sell used 2006 models for up to $16500!  These aren't custom jobs, just the typical SE pipes, air cleaner etc mods. One dood wants $14K for one that he wrecked!
Hmm, lemme see...
I'm guessing they bought their bikes in 05 before the credit crunch, paid over sticker and somehow still think they're an investment..
This is not a bag on Harley's (as I'm lookin' hard at them), but on some of the douchebags out there who are detached from reality.  Kinda like the kids trying to sell a 250Ninja for $6K...

[black hills]

But sometimes they find someone even farther detached and it all works out great for them

[ruffcut]

  Somebody will come along sooner or later and see his dream machine and he`ll pay whatever to get it. There`s a butt for every seat. The seller may be thinking like a used car salesman by asking a lot more than he really expects to get so he has some room to drop in price. On the other hand he might be nuts.

[black hills]

Just remember P.T. Barnum was right

[Playinthestreet]

I'd hazard a guess that many of the overpriced used H-Ds were not only bought at the top of the market, but financed as well.  10% down, 72 month contracts.  Read in the WSJ 6-8 months ago that, by mortgage loan standards, nearly 30% of H-D finance paper would be classified as sub-prime.

[nomadmax]

How many members would HOG have if it took a clear title to join?  Not many I suspect.  For the first time in a long time some HD owners are upside down in bike loans so the price they're asking isn't really based on what they think the bike is worth, (not deep down when they see the price of a new one) it's based on what they owe.  For every guy who walks into an HD Shop and plunks down cash (and I mean cash he had laying around, not cash he got from a home equity loan) a hundred will come in an buy with a loan and very little financial wherewithal.

The trouble is, most of these folks trying to sell themselves out of an upside down loan are so broke dick they can't sell it for what it's really worth because they can't absorb the difference.  Most of the time they can only eat a grand or two and that usually doesn't make their price competitive.  So, the only options are to stop riding the bike to protect residual value and pay the payments or let them repo it.  I know this is off topic a bit but loans for any kind of motor vehicle, especially one that isn't used to transport household goods and family 365 days a year should be avoided.

[Geoff]

Some Harley owners are delusional about their bike's value because they're upside down in their loan; they're not aware that new bike supply has caught up with demand; or they think the bling they added contributes to high resale value.  

[M.Brane]

 From what I've seen perusing the local bike classifieds pretty much all brands are overvalued.

 The HDs have been dropping lately though.

[atadaskew]

 From what I've seen perusing the local bike classifieds pretty much all brands are overvalued.

 The HDs have been dropping lately though.

I'm seeing 06 Dynas where the owners are asking $16K with basically no mods apart from pipe, couple o aftermarket trinkets. And this is  not the exception but the majority.  KBB lists them retail (as from a dealer not private party) at $11k.  These guys are asking more for their 06 bikes than 09s off the dealership floor.  Which there are lots and lots of....

[M.Brane]

 Yeah that's what happens when you use your overvalued home to finance your overvalued bike, and then reality pulls the rug out from underneath you.

 The sportbikes are just as bad. $5-6K for a 10-year-old sportbike? You can keep it.

[chornbe]

They just have VFR envy.

Some bikes are disproportionately valued and some are perceived as worth something more after certain things are added or resolved.

But yeah... delusions remain strong and fevered in the Faithful camp. No argument.

Look, people can ask whatever they want. The nutjobs paying it, they're the ones with the issues. Yes, most sellers are delusional, but if I can get an extra $3-4k by keeping it for sale a little longer, knowing that one of the faithful will sell him mom's ashes to a coke dealer in Fresno just to get the exact mix of stuff I've got on mine because he's a fucked-out ADD bike freak and needs what he needs... I'm cool with that.

As for financing... I financed my Street Glide. It cost more than my car. It's also my primary vehicle. A lot of riders say that, but with me, it's actually true. *I* put 4000 miles on my Corolla last year (my wife and kid, that's another story!   ). I put >20k on my bikes (the entire stable). That's a 5:1 bike->car mile ratio. The Corolla could die a horrible, devastating death tomorrow, and I'd just get something else... probably for $1000 and let it sit until January when the snow and sub-20 temps come.

If the bike died tomorrow (well, it's under warranty, but you know...) I'd replace it before the sun set with something comparably-able and never think twice about it. In all fairness, I have likely purchased my first and last two Harleys. They're cool bikes. They're exceptionally nice bikes. They're well built and have excellent quality in every part. If I had to replace the Glide and the Sportster tomorrow with other Harley(s), I might just to get a Dyna with all the quick-release stuff and call it done. The Dyna with suspension mods and quick release tour appointments would do better what each of these does for me, for what I want them for. You have to look pretty far to find a better 2-up legal-speed luxo-tourer than the Electraglide series, but I ride it more like a mid-weight sportier-tourer, and I could do that way cleaner on a Dyna. And for solo, I do that on the Sportster.

If brand was not an issue, I'd probably just get a Ulie-XT and a little Monster (or Shiver, or Mana, or SV or... or... or...) or maybe a 1200 Sportster Roadster (as a starting point).

I dunno.... see, this is why I'm not shopping bikes until it's actually time to replace them. I'll go nuts. Again.  

[scott-sts]

Yeah right.  Sport bikes are priced to sell.

[Geoff]

Asking and selling prices are two different birds, so don't be fooled by the classifieds. Here in northern Illinois we have a short riding season. There are lots of clean, used low mileage Harleys in the classifieds, especially 2003 anniversary bikes. Nice thing about buying used is you save on tax and there are no freight and prep charges.  

[atadaskew]

Asking and selling prices are two different birds, so don't be fooled by the classifieds.

I understand that, but when these turkeys are off by $5000 from dealer retail, you just don't want to bother.

[Playinthestreet]

I understand that, but when these turkeys are off by $5000 from dealer retail, you just don't want to bother.

I've got friends who have no qualms about offering sellers 1/2 the asking price but I just don't have it in me to do all that jerkin' around.  As an aside, I've been watching this bike for months and it's almost there...

http://www.califspeed.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/15697/subcatid/0/id/339430

[M.Brane]

I've got friends who have no qualms about offering sellers 1/2 the asking price but I just don't have it in me to do all that jerkin' around.

 +1

 I don't mind a little haggling, but I at least want to start with someone who's got a decent grasp on reality.

 Vintage bikes are a whole 'nother animal. I see there's an old XS on that page.

[Lon]

or they think the bling they added contributes to high resale value.

I've found this to be the case universally.  "I spent $1400 on a sweet pipe with no baffles, so that increases the value of my bike at least $900".

Try about $200.  Take it off and sell it; it's actually worth more off the bike than on.

[black hills]

 +1

 I don't mind a little haggling, but I at least want to start with someone who's got a decent grasp on reality.

 Vintage bikes are a whole 'nother animal. I see there's an old XS on that page.

I'm having this very problem right now... A fairly nice '88 hawk GT but the guy is sure it's worth $3400  

[photomd]

I ran into this when I decided to do a cafe bike. I thought a Sportster 1200 would do. Then I'd put an alloy tank, alloy bump stop seat and maybe a GSXR front end. I couldn't find a wrecked one for less than $5K. So now I'm doing it to a 30 year old Guzzi: works for me.  

[atadaskew]

 I don't mind a little haggling, but I at least want to start with someone who's got a decent grasp on reality.
 

Exactly!
True story.. there's a Jeep dealership in Thousand Oaks, CA called Shaver Jeep.  A few years ago, before oil was expensive and the economy tanked I was looking at Wranglers.  All the trucks in their lot had huge $5000 off signs on them.  Great, right?  So I take a look at them.  On the invoice it said in small print "dealer price adjustment $4500".  That meant they marked them $4500!  And then put on huge signs claiming $5000 off!  So it was only a $500 discount..  Salesman came over and the conversation went like this:
Salesman "Huge sale, $5000 off, an amazing deal"
Me         " But you have them marked up $4500"
Salesman "But we are giving you $5000 off!"
I walked away...
It's a complete waste of time if you have to haggle to just get it to the starting point.