BIG BIG GUY LOOKING TO START RIDING

[35nready]

HEY I am new out here and I just finish reading the Sport bikes arn't for beginners thread and posted this there. Then I realized that alot of people who could offer good advice might not go in there so I copy and pasting here for advice. Thanks in advance

First let me say thanks from the bottom of my heart as I am not one of the gung ho kids who doesn't care what someone says and I was going to buy a sport or sport touring bike abouve 600cc as my first bike. I believed some of the points you posted, expecially the wieght one and that was the reason for my thoughts.

I would like to tell you guys my situation and have you suggest some good starter choices for me.

I just turned 35 and have waited for 2 years till this B day to make sure wanting a bike was not a fad. I rode dirt bikes occasionally as a kid when I could sneak out on my cousins Yamaha 100mx (very tame machine). My love afair came on a trip we took accross canada and seeing all the touring machines making the same trip. I drive a convertable Mustand and after talking at a rest area we compared the experiences and although some simularities the bike's seemed to offer more of what I loved about the trip.
I did agree to actually put the top up and ride in the fast lane to block the cross wind through the flat lands for them which they were so appreciative of they bought dinner for me

Anyway I realized that it was what I wanted to do tour (long trips and weekends on a bike) Here is where it gets interesting. I am an extreamly large person. At my biggest I weighed 488lbs I am now down to 450lbs and will get down to 400lbs which is my other goal to get a bike now. My question is for someone who eventually would like to get a 2000ish triump spirit st and do some touring with and without my wife on the back what would be a good started bike? Also note no experience at all with street bikes and very little with dirt bikes 20yrs ago. I plan on taking the local safty course they offer at the college but I don't think 2 days is going to be all that great of a course but much better then nothing and I am hoping they after some follow up courses after you have your license as well.

Anyway any info would be greatly appreciated I plan on eventually getting down under 300lbs and have told my wife I need at least 2 years of experiece riding before I will think of putting someone on the back of my bike.

Thanks again for this thread and to the person who says that "it's just natural selection to not inform new riders" I hope no one you run into when you are about to make a major decision that could be life threatning treats you will the same absent mindedness you treat new riders with.

[naustin]

My ST1300 has a load capactiy of 410 pounds maximum.  That's all it can carry, and that includes passangers, gear, luggage, etc.  The ST is a large bike.  Even a GoldWing has a maximum load capacity of around 400 lbs, and the biggest harleys are around 450 I think....

Not sure about a Triumph Sprint - but its probably in the 300-350 range.

I weigh 160 and my wife is 130 without gear - and when we are wearing all our gear + luggage for a 2 week trip, we are pushing the max load capacity of the ST.

Whatever you decide, be careful.  I wouldn't put your wife on the back of any bike without upgrading the suspension, even if you get down to 300 and she is 5'4" and 97lbs....  Overwhelming the suspension can be very dangerous.  Just remember most sport bikes, including the Triumph you mentioned, were designed for a 150-170 lb, male who is 5'10"...  

If I were you, I'd look at an 800cc metric cruiser as my first ride.  It won't be too expensive or heavy for you, will have the right amount of power to learn with, and will have ergos that won't torture you to death.  

PS) many bikes can safely carry more than the manufactures load capacity - but to be safe, you need upgrade the forks spring and rear suspension etc.... Quality suspension upgrades for front and back can run in the $1,500-$2,000 ballpark if you're talking about a Triumph Sprint or a ST1300 like mine...

[spinalator]

Buell Ulysses

Dry Weight 425 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating 950 lbs
Load Carrying Capacity 452 lbs

[UFO]

Rated load capacities probably have a factor of safety of 2X and are more suspension dependent than frame/subframe dependent.  My Vette has a load rating of 423 lbs...which is absolutely ridiculous for a car, same as your ST1300.

I recommend starting solo on something in the 800cc realm that's more of an ST bike that has a more robust subframe (as opposed to supersports).  After you get some time and miles under your tires you can think about upgrading to a larger bike with a larger load capacity.  But, as naustin said, even though the bike may be able to handle the loads you may have to invest in some suspension upgrades.

Good luck.

[fhaze]

If you need some cheap gear lemme know. I am 6 3 and 300lbs, and am about to offload some riding gear.  

[naustin]

Rated load capacities probably have a factor of safety of 2X and are more suspension dependent than frame/subframe dependent.  

That may be true most of the time, but I'm convinced that overloading my `01 buell overstressed the engine mounting system through the engine mounted shock and caused both the repeated failures of the front motor mount and the eventual catastrophic failure of the bolts in the head of the engine.  I don't even wanna think about it actually  

I agree with you generally, though.  

[35nready]

thanks for all the help guys. So I will prob buy my bike from one of the shops locally and should factor in the suspension right away. I notice you guys are recommending cruiser around 800cc that will work for me and was actually what I was thinking of at first. My question is this drives the cost up alot more as a starter bike option expecially with the shock work I will need done. I am not looking to buy a bike till Jan and then not ride it for a few months after that. How would I find the capacities of used bikes ??

[Zerosum]

I have a friend who's about your size who's thinking about getting into riding.  He's 400+lbs, 6'-3" tall.  I've been suggesting that he start on a V-Strom 650.

The whole idea that a big guy needs to start on a large-displacement bike is bit of a misnomer.  66HP is plenty, even at your weight.  If you're tall enough (say, 5'-10" or taller) it's a very comfortable, confidence-inspiring ride. It has tons of leg room and seat room.  It also has a longer suspension travel than other streetbikes, so you should be able to just dial up the preload on the fork springs and shock and go.   My friend sat on my Strom and really liked it.  Used they go for $4K to $5K, new they retail for $6900.



Yes, I realize that I've become "that guy" who recommends his bike to everyone.  So what?  Is it my fault the bike's so awesome?  

[garry]

I was going to suggest a V-Strom too (Wee or Vee). New fork springs are a must. I only weigh 165 pounds and needed stiffer ones. That'll cost you $100 (easy installation). You can also get a new rear shock spring (just the spring) from Wilbers for just over $100. I had the preload max'd on my Wee before changing out the shock spring. If you don't want to do the work yourself, I bet a shop would swap out both fork springs and rear shock for 2 - 3 hours labor ($200?). Big roomy seat with decent leg room and upright ergos. You can find lightly used Wee Stroms for $4500 - $5000. New/leftover 650s sell for $6000 (or less).

[DredheadV2.0]

 I notice you guys are recommending cruiser around 800cc

No one has recommended a cruiser - more like ST and standards.  Although a lot of people here have a cruiser as their second bike, and some have one as their primary, you'll find as a whole we all lean more towards ST bikes - it's kinda part of the whole STN thing.  I think part of the confusion may be one that's common to new riders: Many people think there's only three kinds of bikes - Cruisers, Sportbikes, and Dirtbikes.  While it may seem a little nitpicky to say Bike X is a supersport, Bike Y is a GT, and Bike Z is a standard, they are all different categories for a reason.

[doodah man]

No one has recommended a cruiser.

naustin recommended the cruiser in the second post, much to his chagrin I imagine now.  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

naustin recommended the cruiser in the second post,

 

[naustin]

Yes, I did....    My buddy bought a Suzuki 800cc cruiser as his first bike and it not only has served him very well, it was very nicely put together.  Minus the badge, you'd never guess it was an 800, it seemed as big as a 1500 and had lots of room, which is why I thought something similar would good for someone big and tall as a first bike.

[DredheadV2.0]

And the funny thing is, I did so well on my SATs and ACTs when it came to reading comprehension.  Amazing what 25 years will do to a once-sharp tool.  

[Jeff N]

And the funny thing is, I did so well on my SATs and ACTs when it came to reading comprehension.  Amazing what 25 years will do to a once-sharp tool.  

25 years and free scotch whiskey.  

As suggested, I'd think a Wee Strom would be a great first bike for someone who's big. Good luck, dude and welcome to the club!  

[DredheadV2.0]

25 years and free scotch whiskey.  

Er, yeah.  We had a comparative tasting at the office today.  A couple different single grain whiskies, one of them was 40 years old.  Then a bunch of single malts - Oban, Dalwhinnie, Highland Park, Strathisla, Talisker, some others.  The last exercise was "make your own blend" which was fun.  I love my job sometimes.

Wait, what were we talking about?

Oh, yeah.  Bikes 'n stuff.

[keystonejenks]

If you're looking at a Triumph, why not consider a previous generation Tiger? You can pick one of those up at a good price right about now.

[DNA]

As an owner of an '03 Sprint with a few miles on it I would not recommend this bike as a first.

The suspension is the soft part of this machine.  If you want to upgrade the shock it will cost about $1K - or more to get something really solid, it is top heavy and the plastics are really expensive (ask me how I know).

There are several really big guys riding GoldWings and RT's in the LD rides I do and they seem very comfy.

BTW - I am about 220 and my wife is tine, and we are comfy on the Sprint - but there is not much extra room.  I cannot see you both fitting.

As you seem to be mostly interested in Touring applications I'd look for a used HD - the prices are crashing and lots can be had with only a few thousand miles on 'em.

That style bike was made for your applications.

[keystonejenks]

As an owner of an '03 Sprint with a few miles on it I would not recommend this bike as a first.

The triple is very linear and user friendly but it can still get you in trouble quick!

[HD Guy]

35nready -

I would highly recommend looking at the recommended weight carrying capacity of several different bikes and getting the highest possible.  I would start looking at the middle weight cruisers in the 600 to 800 cc's.  Even larger if necessary to find one that physically fits you and is comfortable.

I weigh 260 lbs in gear, 6" 3" tall, have been riding bikes since the early 70's, including desert dirt bike riding and racing.  I can't even remember if I have ever riden a stock suspension bike that worked for me.   That includes Harley Road King, Gold Wing, and the BMW sport tourer with electrical adjustable suspension.  I can't remember which BMW it was, maybe the GT 1200.  The big reason, is they are all designed for riders weighing 180 - 200 lbs.  I have always had to upgrade my suspenension.  

The other problem with upgrading suspension, is the aftermarket companies may not have heavy enough springs for the bike you buy.  You may want to make sure air shocks and heavy fork springs are available for any bike you buy.  In addition, expect to get the dampening curves of the shocks and forks changed to match the springs, that will cost more.   The aftermarket suspension companies will be able to supply good suspension for the bigger cruisers, but may not have any experience or parts with bikes like the SV 650, Tiger, V-Strom for 400 lb riders.

Another word of caution.  Overloading bikes can cause wheels, frame and suspension components to break, bend, crack.  I've done it myself.  There was a recent picture on the adventure forum where the front axle of a BMW 650 adventure bike broke off the forks while the guy was on the highway.  No telling how much he abused the bike before hand.   For this reason, I would stay away from the SV 650, Tiger, V-Strom, BMW 650 adventure bike.      

In addition, you will want to have a very large seat which is available on the cruisers but not on the SV, Tiger, or V-Strom.

Make sure the bike has a strong kick stand that can hold up under your weight.  Make sure the bike has very strong brakes.  Dual discs up front and single disc in the rear.  Make sure you can comfortably reach all the controls.   I have ridden some bikes which did not have enough room for my boots between the foot peg and shifter lever.  Make sure you can get tires with enough load carrying capacity.  Stay away from lowered bikes.

I am not trying to discourage you, just trying to give you a realistic idea of things you need to look closely at.  It is one thing to overload a bike for a short trip, it is another thing to always ride overloaded.

[Lon]

My ST1300 has a load capactiy of 410 pounds maximum.  That's all it can carry, and that includes passangers, gear, luggage, etc.  The ST is a large bike.  Even a GoldWing has a maximum load capacity of around 400 lbs, and the biggest harleys are around 450 I think....

Not sure about a Triumph Sprint - but its probably in the 300-350 range.

Try +100lbs.  Like 465.

Most BMWs and Triumph's Tiger and Sprint ST have ridiculous load caps.  The Suzuki GSX650F has a 480lb load cap.  Beefy bikes are out there - but they're hard to find.

Most Japanese bikes have lower weight capacities than Triumphs and BMWs.  Load capacity was a factor when I bought my BMW, since it was going to serve as a 2-up tourer some of the time (and it does the job *very* well).

Edit:
DL650 -> 925 GVWR, 472 ready-to-ride -> 453 load cap
DL1000 -> 965 GVWR, 517 ready to ride -> 448 load cap
Sprint ST 1050 -> , 554 ready to ride -> ??? load cap
My R1100S -> 992 GVWR, 504 ready to ride -> 488 load cap

... etc.

If I find the Sprint ST GVWR, I'll add it.  Same with GSX650F.  I remember being utterly shocked at the GSX650F's load capacity.  Keep in mind none of these load caps take into account addition of luggage systems, which will increase the "ready to ride" weight, thereby decreasing the available load capacity.

[Baron Samedi]

Don't mess about, buy a Victory.

[Lawn Dart]

Just a couple of quick notes:

1.  Congrats on wanting to join the ranks!  Always good for new blood to come in.
2.  Your first bike.  Whatever it is, buy USED if you can!  A used Honda Shadow 750 cruiser, for instance, can be had under $4k with less than 5,000 miles on them.  Many used bikes out there, especially the Japanese cruisers, can be had for a song.  Don't worry about it not having enough power, suspension, or whatever:  it's a stepping stone.  Use it to learn on.  Use it to figure what kind of riding you REALLY want to do.  Too many people make the mistake of trying to buy their "dream bike" as their first bike.  Then they drop it backing it out of the garage (which, btw, is how you will likely drop the bike the first time.  We've pretty much all done it.  It's all part of the learning curve.)
3.  Put 6,000 miles on the bike BEFORE deciding what you need to change, etc.  Given your weight, max out the pre-load on the rear shock and, at least for the short term, just call it good until you get the basics of riding down.  It takes 6mo. / 6000 miles to get used to clutching, throttling, downshifting, braking, etc.  It just takes time for the controls to become ingrained in your behavior.
4.  Assuming you buy used, factor in the cost of new tires ($300-400 mounted), brake & oil & radiator fluid change ($120) and a battery ($75).  The tires are likely old and ozone cracked while the fluids just need to be changed because the bike was likely sitting for a long time, absorbing moisture.Possible, but not likely on low mileage models might include a new chain and brake pads.  But not likely.

Bikes I like:
1995-ish BMW R1100R.  
Wee-strom.
Any sub-1000cc J4 (aka, Japanese Big 4 Mfg's) cruiser.  There's a darn good chance of finding something of a modern day classic like the Kawasaki Vulcan Drifter in an 800cc model with super low miles.  J4 bikes, shaft drive, medium displacement cruisers are just this side of indestructible.  It takes crashing of a small nuke to truly damage them.
Honda CB750 Nighthawk
Suzuki Bandit 600

IMO, the first three options are likely the better ones.  

Accept a certain degree of humility in this.  Chances are you will dump the bike.  Several times.  Chances are you will think you are a better rider than you really are.  Humility will be your friend here.  It takes a solid 6-10000 miles to really start to get the flow of riding.  And another 25,000 miles of work to reach a true level of competence.   Take it slow.  Take it easy.  Be open to learning.  And be open to a bit of caution - especially when you start thinking "I've got this licked." and you dial in another bit of throttle.  That's when danger really happens - it's called overconfidence.  Lord knows, it can bite us all.

Crashing sucks.  Invest in a decent set of riding gear, including some riding pants.  A very good friend of mine (Viffer Vern) crashed at 35mph.  Hit a dog at night.  Broken collar bone, tweaked ankle, possible rotator cuff damage.  Some knee rash where his leathers wore through.  Big concussion.  He was wearing full leathers and a full face helmet.  Shit can happen at any speed.  Imagine the damage had he not invested in good gear.  

Good places to shop for gear:

www.ironpony.com  - check out Teknic textiles - lots and lots of supercheap clearance stuff.  
www.newenough.com  - great place.  great owner.  I heard he rode through an ice-storm to donate his left kidney to someone in Montana in the dead of winter.  
www.ebay.com  - you just never know...

Good Luck!

Oh, and post back when you think you've found some solid bike examples!

Regards,

Robert

[servicerifle]

Hey guys, what's the load capacity on the older style Goldwings?  Maybe he could get one of those (the pre-1800cc engine ones) and it would suit the weight issues and comfort issues fine, and still not take a monetary beating when it gets dropped.

[Triple88a]

Just a couple of quick notes:

1.  Congrats on wanting to join the ranks!
2.  .......Don't worry about it not having enough power, suspension, or whatever:  it's a stepping stone.  Use it to learn on.

Join the ranks, not the statics.  It's your first bike, not your last

[BABOU]

35nready,

Welcome back to life on two wheels.  I too did the dirt bike thing while a pre teen and early teem years and 10 years ago got the itch and wanted to ride again.  At that time I was 6'2" and probably topped around 350 lbs.

Walked into a dealer that was a "friend" and he overcharged me a thousand bucks for a Honda VTX1100.
That bike was just baaaaaaaddddd.  So I bought a Harley Electra Glide because another friend didn't think I could.  After 20 minutes on that bike my low back throbbed.  I sold it because we built our house and I knew I wasn't going to ride for awhile.

During the time I was without a bike I walked into a local dealer and saw a Honda ST1300.  I explained to the dealer my back problems and he indicated that the lean forward of a sport bike / sport touring takes the pressure off of the lower back.

After a lot of thought I decided against the ST1300 and found a left over 2003 Kawasaki ZR-7S.
I agree with the other folks, find an inexpensive bike as a starter in the 600 to 800cc range.  The one thing that has given me the edge in riding long distance is padded bicycling pants.  That one accessory has added many miles to my riding comfort.  I also purchased an aftermarker seat, this helped a lot also.

I will also add something.  As yo continue to loose the weight your riding enjoyment will increase also.  I am down from 340 to 240 pounds.

[nomadmax]

I dunno about a cruiser boys.  This guy is heavy and having all that upper body pushing down his spine to his tailbone with his feet forward may cause some back issues.  A 150-160 pd guy slouching w/ feet forward on a cruiser with no way to weight is feet is one thing but add a couple hundred pounds to that and he may wind up with back trouble, a sore coccyx at the least.

Beef up the suspension on a DL650, old 750 NightHawk, Versys or any older standard and get to gittin'.


If Loud Pipes Save Lives, How Come So Many People Who Have Em' Crash?

[lanceg]

got a katana 1100 that will hold you up with no problem

[Triple88a]

If Loud Pipes Save Lives, How Come So Many People Who Have Em' Crash?

It's different when the crash is rider error, you know that.