Had the crap scared out of me yesterday...

[Nny]

I went out riding yesterday and noticed a lot of icy signs on my way up the hill.  I was taking it kinda easy but still having fun and looking out for shady spots (where I figured what was left of any ice from the night before would be).  I was getting into it, remembering to keep my eyes up and rolling on a bit through the turns when, mid turn, all of a sudden the back end is way more to the left than it should have been and the front is way more to the right than it should have been and a split second later the opposite is true.  Out of instinct more than any conscious thought I backed off the throttle and tried to stay above the bike while straightening the bars.  I think I had about 5 oscillations all within 1-2 seconds then the bike straightened out and I continued up the hill a bit before stopping at a small pull out to relax a bit again and then kept going.

After that I slowed more for turns and leaned my body out more rather than leaning the bike over where it was wet / dirty.  This maximizes traction right?

[bizarro]

That does help maintain a larger contact patch. Regardless, nicely done keeping it upright!  

[Cpl Punishment]

Agree. Not funny but they do teach lessons and that you've just done something wrong (unless it's Kwaka 750 2 stroke from about 79. they would be normal then).

[Nny]

Agree. Not funny but they do teach lessons and that you've just done something wrong (unless it's Kwaka 750 2 stroke from about 79. they would be normal then).

My mistake was overestimating my traction available.  Speaking from experience there Cpl?

[Stormer]

Oh, oh, prety scaring...

[Nny]

Sadly yes. Greasy road, tyres cold. Thrashing a Commando up a straight with no damping on. And anythinmg from the 70's or 80's which was Japanese-even in a straight line. (and there was that time I managed to put a side car outfit into a tank slapper).
Trick is, stay cool. wrestle the front end, ease off the throttle, don't use the front brake.

Wow.. A tank slapper on a bike with a side car?

And yeah, no way was I going to jump on the brakes just then.  Had enough traction problems already..

[bubba zanetti]

Old Z1 Kawi's were bad for the tank slapper ... really bad. Scares me to think about it  

[Cpl Punishment]

Scared me at the time. And the way the old Kwaka triples cut in and out in the rain. Only time I had to apologise to a cage driver-sorry fir ramming your Marina up the arse. Gotta a crap bike with no engine managament. Or brakes.  
Actually, I just scowled and looked heavy. And they all fecked off as quick as they could.Still  my fault thogh.

[hobbes]

Trick is, stay cool. wrestle the front end, ease off the throttle, don't use the front brake.

NO!!!

Do NOT roll off the throttle when you enter a tank slapper. If anything increase the amount of throttle to lighten the front end. Letting off will maximize the amount of traction between your front tire and road, there for making each oscillation even stronger and possibly causing a crash.

I know it's incredibly hard to do in the moment, but at least try to keep the throttle on and don't chop it.

[Nny]

Come to think of it, I'm glad it happened while I was still going uphill.

NO!!!

Do NOT roll off the throttle when you enter a tank slapper. If anything increase the amount of throttle to lighten the front end. Letting off will maximize the amount of traction between your front tire and road, there for making each oscillation even stronger and possibly causing a crash.

I know it's incredibly hard to do in the moment, but at least try to keep the throttle on and don't chop it.

This is assuming it's the front end that has slid out right?  I mean, it seems to me that if the back end has slid out a bit, backing off the throttle would help stabilize it.

[county]

In the olden days a "tank slapper" was the front end oscillating back and forth while riding in a straight line at speed.

[Windblown]

This is what it sounds like happened from your description:

You lost the rear end and it slid out, then it caught and almost threw you into a highside. The resulting gyrations took a couple of seconds to work themselves back out.

Not a tankslapper per se, but every bit if not more deadly.

Good save  

A tankslapper usually happens as one powers out of a corner and the front end gets light.  I've seen some truly scary looking tank slappers on the track. It's amazing anyone every recovers from one.    

[denydog]

I've had two really bad tank slapper incidents.  The first was on my old Honda CB500T.  Doing about 70 mph up hill in a sweeper, throttle wide open.  All of a sudden the bike felt and acted like it was hinged in the middle, back and forth across the whole lane.  Wasn't until I dropped about 15-20 mph that she straitened out.  Really weird feeling.  Really primitive suspension

The other slapper was in a braking situation.  On my current bike I was doing about 80 when I came over a rise to see a line of cars stopped in the road.  I slammed on the brakes and the handlebars violently shook back and forth so fast it was a blur.  I was able to stop in time, but I should have went down.  It was all instinct cause it happened too fast to think.  I examined the front tire when I returned home, and found shreds of rubber hanging off every tread block.  The next day, my arms were very sore from being wrenched back and forth.

Glad you survived your bit of excitement Nny!

[hobbes]

This is what it sounds like happened from your description:

You lost the rear end and it slid out, then it caught and almost threw you into a highside. The resulting gyrations took a couple of seconds to work themselves back out.

Not a tankslapper per se, but every bit if not more deadly.

Good save  

A tankslapper usually happens as one powers out of a corner and the front end gets light.  I've seen some truly scary looking tank slappers on the track. It's amazing anyone every recovers from one.    

I think you are right here. Not really a tank slapper, but still scary.  


Do not slow down when in a violent tank slapper if possible. GAS IT!  

I mean, it seems to me that if the back end has slid out a bit, backing off the throttle would help stabilize it.

Actually backing off the throttle in a rear slide gives you a better chance of the rear wheel catching while stepped out, causing you to get tossed. In a major rear wheel slide your best bet is to keep steady throttle, no more no less. This will try to keep the rear wheel from catching hard while kicked out, but if it's out too far you may be FUBARED anyhow.

[Mac]

This is a classic tankslapper from the Isle of Man TT.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=A2svJf4-g4I

[Nny]

Thanks for the input guys.  I've seen that clip before..  That's what it felt like it did, but I was going much slower at the time and it straightened out pretty quickly once I straightend the bars and backed off the throttle..  Maybe it was more just the lack of traction than the throttle input that caused it?  

[hobbes]

Thanks for the input guys.  I've seen that clip before..  That's what it felt like it did, but I was going much slower at the time and it straightened out pretty quickly once I straightend the bars and backed off the throttle..  Maybe it was more just the lack of traction than the throttle input that caused it?  

I dont think we're gonna be able to fully figure it out here, but it's probable that the tank slapper was pretty minor and the bike straightened itself out by you wrestling the bars. A scary situation, and let's hope you don't experience it again! lol

[BLARNEY]

 What you experienced was a weave not a tankslapper.


 A tankslapper ( like the vid ) is when the back tire is connected and
 the front tire does the wobbly "shopping cart wheel" which may or
 may not eventually crash you. This is an oscillation of the front wheel.


 A weave is an oscillation of the motorcycle behind the steering head
 where the front wheel has traction and the rear of the bike is oscillating.

 Anyone who has ridden old bikes or Goldwings aggressively knows this well.


 You were lucky to not highside...... when the rear wheel spins you want
 to maintain even throttle ( hard to do with ass-clenched ) and allow a
 couple second for speed to equalize ( tire to road ) and traction to return.

 Closing or opening the throttle induces an additional request for more
 traction ( engine braking or acceleration ) from a tire that is already
 sliding..... bad.   Braking or engine braking removes traction from the
 sliding tire AND plants the front to give you a pivot point and that
 is how highsides happen.


 Bad situation..... glad you rode it out !

 Good job !    

 Tom

[Mr Sunshine]

 What you experienced was a weave not a tankslapper.

Hey I was gonna just say that.  

[Nny]

I think I was fairly low in the RPM's so I didn't really engine brake much when I backed off the throttle..  Oh well, I guess I shouldn't dwell on it too much.  Just be more careful when there *could* be ice or sludge on the road and if it happens again try to keep a bit of throttle rather than chopping it.