Tiered license system

[Ant]

Gotta pay someone to ride with you?

They're called instructors

[DosEquis00]

Here in Quebec we seem to have a semi-good system.

But they decided to raise registration costs across the board, this year, and for the next 3 years. This means all bikes deemed as "sport" bikes have higher registration costs than "standard bikes". This year, it is $617 to register a sport bike...next year $1000 and 2010 it will be $1400!!  

Thats right! If you have a 1995 CBR thats worth about $2K, it will cost you $1400 just to register the damn thing! So this discourages the purchase of sport bikes, and discourages newbies from buying sport bikes in the first place.

Yes...Quebec is a pretty ass-backwards place.

Glad to know the government goes after organized crime for extortion.  

[zer0netgain]

They're called instructors

Yeah, but why should you have to pay someone who is basically just following you around?  It's not like the other rider can take over your bike in an emergency.

[Baron Samedi]

Yeah, but why should you have to pay someone who is basically just following you around?  It's not like the other rider can take over your bike in an emergency.

Good grief.

[GooseMan]

Some of those Canadian rules are just stupid.

Ride with someone else?  What if you don't know anybody?  Gotta pay someone to ride with you?

If you can't ban it....just regulate it to death, I guess.  

Yup! That was one of the most frustrating things! I got my permit last April...so I had all summer to ride. Every time there was a nice day, or I was in the mood to ride, I had to scramble to find someone to ride with. I didnt know ANYONE that rides...so my bike sat in the garage most of the time

Finally found some riders on a local forum that would "babysit" me. Lucky for me, they were good people, and let me ride around at my own pace, so it was ok.

But yeah...pretty dumb rule. Like I said, you can get your permit in October...wait 7 months (winter, no riding) and just go for your license in the spring. Only the 7 month period is NECASSARY, but you dont actually have to practice in those 7 months!  

[leveredge]

Yup! That was one of the most frustrating things! I got my permit last April...so I had all summer to ride. Every time there was a nice day, or I was in the mood to ride, I had to scramble to find someone to ride with. I didnt know ANYONE that rides...so my bike sat in the garage most of the time

Finally found some riders on a local forum that would "babysit" me. Lucky for me, they were good people, and let me ride around at my own pace, so it was ok.

But yeah...pretty dumb rule. Like I said, you can get your permit in October...wait 7 months (winter, no riding) and just go for your license in the spring. Only the 7 month period is NECASSARY, but you dont actually have to practice in those 7 months!  

That's the way it's supposed to be in NY with a learners permit another licensed rider is supposed to be in site of you. I got in with a group that let me ride with them when I had my learners. They ended up going bar hopping! How's that for being a mentor. I left those guys a few times on my own because I didn't want to sit there and watch them drink when I would not. I had not rode in 25 years and could ride as good as some of them. Especially after they had a few. Crazy world.
I did end up with a guy from work that would ride around with me but again we usually met up someplace. I had to get there somehow. Three years ago it took all summer to get into the MSFBRC. I understand the wait is even longer now.

[CreepingMalaise]

 Here is what I would like to see. Granted, anyone already possesing a license would be exempt.

Tier 1 - 250cc limit - might consider a slighly higher initial limit depending on what bikes are available.

Tier 2 - 750cc limit - After 2 or 3 years with 250 license and no more than 2 speeding violation. 1 violation if excessive (100mph+) would reset the clock

Tier 3 - No cc limit - After 2-3 years with 750 license and same speeding rules

Utah just adopted a tiered system, based on what you take the riding test on:

O = 90 cc or lower motorcycle
2 = 249 cc or lower motorcycle
3 = 649 cc or lower motorcycle

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the next few years.  An interesting point about these tier choices is that would be 600 SS riders will have get something larger to test on. I wonder if it will push them to buy 1000cc bikes instead?

[Baz]

For fooks sake....

Make everyone signs a waver that says motorcycling is dangerous and it will probably kill you one day. Read & Sign. There you know your going to hurt yourself, we told you so, and you still want to do it? Well fine.

Just like the time I was thrown in an oil wrestling ring in Minneapolis with two ladies of questionable reputation. They informed me of the risks, but unfortunately they did not tell me I would have to explain my supple soft skin to my wife for the following month.


I love the "Have a licensed rider follow you" idea. Just what exactly is that person going to do for you? I guess he will be able to get you an ambulance a little faster when you pile into a truck, but that's about it.

[Hardware]

Let's be a bit more reasonable:

Minimum 18 years old, MSF training required, and 1 year on a sub 500cc bike, with no moving infraction on said bike  (this isn't that hard to do).  You get an infraction or are pulled over riding a 500+cc bike and that year gets reset.

If a rider can demonstrate they've learned what they've been taught, and some self control I don't see a need to drag it out beyond a year.  Any person who is serious about motorcycling as a lifestyle can wait a year...and you can still have a lot of fun on a sub 500cc bike.

I was riding street bikes when I was 16-17 years old.  I'm not sure that's such a good idea anymore.  Hell, I don't even trust a 16 yo driving a car let alone a bike.

Of course I know none of this would ever happen because it takes away our " 'merican freedom" which is why I believe people have the right to off themselves in all silly ways imaginable as long as they don't maim anyone else in the process.  Want your 17 yo kid to have a GSXR1000 as his first bike and wheelie it into a brick wall?  Could care less.  But since no one wants anything like reasonable required training, experience, or even a helmet...what do I care?

No tiered system will ever address the fact that 1/4th of motorcycle fatalities involve riders with no endorsement...they just jump on a bike and start riding:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810892.PDF

Live and die by your freedoms.

+1

As soon as you make something idiot-proof, nature goes out and engineers a better idiot.

[spinalator]

It is amazing how these "discussions" always seem to polarize everyone. I may be off base, but IMO, most of these personal rights vs public safety topics are, incredibly, not entirely black and white or right and wrong issues.

From what I have seen from living in three countries:

• Training and instruction is good, it should not have to be mandated, but some will never voluntarily go unless legislated
• Licensing levels does weed out some wackos and reckless hoodlums. Some idiots fall through the cracks, they always do.
• In modern society there is some loss of personal rights to be able to live in an integrated society.
• It sucks whenever you have more layers of senseless bureaucracy, but it makes absolutely no sense for a 16 year old to be allowed to buy and license a 1400cc GT bike, when even 85HP is too much for someone who is 40% testosterone and 60% Red Bull. That is the current reality in many situations and that is what I see ripping up the streets at 3:00AM on weekends. I would love to send the little pricks back to 85cc scooter camp.

I think if the motorcycle industry and riders take control of this issue, then non-riders, the government, and/or the insurance industry will not own the issue before we have a chance to respond.

[zer0netgain]

In modern society there is some loss of personal rights to be able to live in an integrated society.

True, but since special interests often craft the laws and government has no sense where to stop and accept that it exists to serve the sovereign man and not to enslave him, I'm very protective of my personal rights.

It sucks whenever you have more layers of senseless bureaucracy, but it makes absolutely no sense for a 16 year old to be allowed to buy and license a 1400cc GT bike, when even 85HP is too much for someone who is 40% testosterone and 60% Red Bull.

Agreed, but not all 16-year-olds are equal.  The more you make a system to account for everyone, the more you impose unreasonable standards because you are catering to the lowest common denominator.  Some of the practices in other countries affect people regardless of age or experience or economic means.  As I've said elsewhere....if you can't ban it, regulate it to death, and that's what often happens.  

[zer0netgain]

Good grief.

Once you obtain your motorcycle learners permit, you can ONLY ride alongside another rider, whom of which must have had a FULL license for 2+ years. You can ride whatever you want, whenever you want, but NO passengers.

For the average person....you get a permit (didn't indicate an age restriction) and for the next TWO YEARS you can only ride if you have someone else with you who also has at least 2 years of experience?  Okay, what if you don't have a riding buddy?  I suppose you wait 2 years without riding to get your regular license?

No thank you.  I got my first bike with ZERO motor bike experience.  Someone taught me in an hour the basics (on a rented motorcycle), and yes, I made some mistakes, but I was able to practice, get my MC endorsement, and enjoy the road.  I took the risks and the responsibilities.  If I had to do all that other BS, I'd never have gotten on 2 wheels.

I was without a bike for about 10 years (motor on my first bike blew), and I got a used sportbike.  I had years of driving experience.  I had tactical pursuit driving training as a cop.  I knew I had to respect the power of the bike.  I still had my MC endorsement.  I didn't have any major problems.  Some bad technique, but I learned once I met more skilled riders who taught me.  There's no why the DMV courses would have taught me how to ride a sportbike properly and the specialty schools were too far away and too expensive.

A lot of these regulations would deny anyone but the wealthy the pleasure of the open roads.  In Europe, the chief strategy to get cars off the road and people onto mass transit is to make car ownership too expensive to be practical.

If you can't ban it, regulate it to death.

[ScotchFan]

And of course, folks like me who have been endorsed since the 1970's are exempt.  However, I still recall an old codger who wanted to ride his big Harley and failed the driving test many times.  Each time, he retook it with something smaller.  When I took my riding test he was on something like a Honda Trail 70 or QA-50.  He was dressed to the 9's in leather chaps, vests, boots.  I do not think he passed that day either.
It sucks that you have to buy up different displacement bikes.  But, the thought of a noobie starting our with a 'Busa is a little scary.    Problem is common sense is more and more getting to be uncommon.

[OMJunk]

I have read in some European countries it is 35HP max for the first 2 years, then anything goes. I learned to ride on a BSA Lightning which I think was about 45 HP. It was more than enough, in fact one of the fastest bikes available in the 60's. Young people today are buying bikes with 3 times the power to learn on. One bike shop in S Cal kept track for a year and every sport bike sold that year was totalled by the end of the year. I also had a ZG1000, not a good beginners bike, but I know they made a 35HP version and when the time came, replacing the throttle slides returned the bike to 108 hp, so a new bike was not required. I do not believe that allowing our young riders to kill themselves off is good for the sport, but neither do I believe there is any easy answer.  Just my .02