head to head lightweights: GSX650F vs. 650R vs FZ6R

[chimera]

With the introduction of the Suzuki GSX650F in 2008 there is now a fully faired challenger for the Kawasaki Ninja.  These bikes have such similar specs and are exactly the kind of bike I would want in a lightweight sport-tourer.

The question is which one?

Discuss

EDIT:   Yamaha has a new player for 2009.  Fully faired FZ6R.  I added it to the poll and reset the counter.

Previous results were 27 for the Ninja and 17 for the Suzi

[Rincewind]

I would choose the 650R primarily because of its lighter weight.

[denisep]

I would choose the 650R primarily because of its lighter weight.

+1

However, if I did a lot of highway riding (like I do).. I would go with the heavier GSX650F -- I have also heard of alot of fairing vibration and noise with the Ninja that I didn't want to chance.   I would first define what you're trying to accomplish and then you can choose which suits your purpose best.

[Phenix_Rider]

650R 100%

The GSX whatever is just fugly and heavy and uncomfortable.

[kansaskat]

100% - GSX650F

Better looks, its heavier and more stable for distance riding and much more comfortable.

[ctbandit]

If I was to go down in displacement I'd also definitely want to go down in weight,  so that would push me towards the 650R. The styling also seems nicer, and the all black looks VERY nice. And list is cheaper. Just seems like a better buy.

But in that price range I'd prob give a look at the versys too.

[Hickey]

I chose the 650F.

I didn't get a chance to test ride them, but I was able to examine both in person while making up my mind.  They are both nice looking bikes and both feel nice to sit on.  In fact I really liked the look of the Ninja how narrow it felt between the knees.  The exhaust location is just cool.  Plus that bike is supposed to get very good fuel mileage and is fairly light weight.

However, the 650R does not have a fuel gauge and its fuel capacity is pretty small.  It doesn't have and can't have a center stand because of that exhaust placement.  Its alternator output is probably not enough to run a heated jacket liner with gloves -- or would be at the limits of the charging system.  I prefer twin side-by-side headlights to share functions, instead of one being high-beam and one being low-beam.  That narrowness includes the seat which made it feel unsupportive and weird to me.

The GSX650F is heavier, weighing around 530 pounds when ready-to-ride, but that still felt light to me coming from a 680 pound FJR.  It handles very well, accelerates and brakes just fine, is stable through even bumpy turns, and deals with cross winds excellently.  There are several luggage options for it, including a color-matched set from Suzuki.  The stock seat is fine but I add a Bead Rider cover for long rides.  There is some room for small items under the seat.  The headlights and mirrors work well.  Vibration is minimal.  The instruments are excellent.  The charging system puts out more than enough for my heated gear.  Fuel mileage has been averaging around 46 MPG giving a tank range of over 200 miles.

[ctbandit]

I chose the 650F.

Great info and choice I should say. My words were completely based on never having sat on these bikes, just from knowledge of their specs and visuals. Seeing the 650f bagged out really makes me like it a lot more, and if you're thinking of hard bags, I bet it'll look better with them.

I really would hate to try and buy a bike without riding it though.

[Grainbelt]

I voted with my $$

That said, I would bet the GSX is a bit better on long highway stretches given the additional weight. Should hand extra weight of luggage a bit better as well - the Ninja isn't really up for it. I need to upgrade the brakes, suspension, and change sprockets this winter.

Still love her though, 20k kms later.

[MustangRider]

I've never ridden either of these but I voted for the GSX based on what I've read about the very broad torque curve.

[rauchman]

Having not ridden either one, I voted Suzuki.  I've sat on both at the IMS show and at the dealer and preferred the Zook.  Felt like it fit my frame better.  The Kawi felt a little cramped and I didn't like the handlebar at all, whereas the Zook felt more spacious all around and feet, ass and hands had much better placement for me.  BTW, I'm 6', 34" inseam and shortish to medium arm length.  The GSX650 felt more substantial (more weight I would guess), but having come from a cruiser, I don't see the additional weight as a big factor.  Also, as others have mentioned, having an available centerstand and factory luggage is a plus over the Kawi.  The GSX has roughly 10ish more hp over the Ninja.  I'm sure either is a fun entertaining ride, but my preference would the GSX.  

[Kiwi]

Having test rode both, I ending up buying the Ninja. The GSX was a nice bike, but it was just a bit too heavy and wide for my tastes. It felt very utilitarian to me. The Ninja is lighter, and feels more filckable in the corners. I found that I prefer the twin to a I4. The low end toque of the Ninja makes it alot of fun. I'm also cheap, and while the price difference between the two is only $500, it's still $500. That's enough to keep my gas tank full for most of the summer.

[Phenix_Rider]

I like my Ninja for it's sporty, fun, do-it-all nature.  I'm sure the Zook would make a better tourer though.  It just looks blech, and weighs a ton, and is really wide, and has silly ergoes.

Oh yeah, the Suburban Machinery Bars make the 650R perfect- the stock bars are just goofy.

[chimera]

EDIT:   Yamaha has a new player for 2009.  Fully faired FZ6R.  I added it to the poll and reset the counter.

Previous results were 27 for the Ninja and 17 for the Suzi

[Phenix_Rider]

EDIT:   Yamaha has a new player for 2009.  Fully faired FZ6R.  I added it to the poll and reset the counter.

Previous results were 27 for the Ninja and 17 for the Suzi

Yanni's doing the same thing as Zook- taking an old design, and detuning it.  PASS.

[dark_isz]

Yanni's doing the same thing as Zook- taking an old design, and detuning it.  PASS.

Yep, not just the engine, either. The FZ6 has 4 pot monoblock calipers, 43mm forks and a cast aluminum frame. The 'new' FZ6R has 2 pot calipers, 41mm forks and a steel tube frame.

I do like the seat/tail section of the 6R, but everything else seems like a step down from the FZ6.

[zuke scoot]

Yep, not just the engine, either. The FZ6 has 4 pot monoblock calipers, 43mm forks and a cast aluminum frame. The 'new' FZ6R has 2 pot calipers, 41mm forks and a steel tube frame.

I do like the seat/tail section of the 6R, but everything else seems like a step down from the FZ6.

I think the Yamaha is aimed more at new riders who see the looks but don't know much about brakes, frames, ect.

[Fourstring]

I think the Yamaha is aimed more at new riders who see the looks but don't know much about brakes, frames, ect.

Ding ding!  We have a winnar!

I've been very impressed with Maggie's Ninja.  Tours well, sports well, crashes well.  I like it.

[zuke scoot]

Ding ding!  We have a winnar!

I've been very impressed with Maggie's Ninja.  Tours well, sports well, crashes well.  I like it.

Exactly.  The bike is not designed to appeal to experienced riders.  Less people will start on a 600SS this way.  It's a great idea by Yamaha!

[JamesG]

Kawi 650 because it is the only competent middle weight (when did 650cc become lightweight?!?).

The other two are just mediocre UJMs wrapped up in sportbike plastic.

[Nodaclu]

Kawi 650 because it is the only competent middle weight (when did 650cc become lightweight?!?).

The other two are just mediocre UJMs wrapped up in sportbike plastic.

Which is exactly what I wanted, and I couldn't be happier. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Most comfortable long distance bike out of the six I've had. I can pretty much echo everything Hickey said, so I won't repeat it, other then to say that I've had the bike up to 115 indicated with the bags on, and didn't even know they were there. That's what the extra weight gives you in stability.

[chimera]

(when did 650cc become lightweight?!?).

sport touring categories as I see it:

500-650: 650R, Versys, GSX, SV, etc. =  LIGHTWEIGHTS

750-1000: VFR, BMW F800, tiger, ST3, etc. = Middleweight

1000+ : FJR, Connie, BMW1200, etc. = heavy

Don't like it?  

[JamesG]

Your "light weight" catagory has bikes that outmass some of your "middle weight".

I think you should "reevaluate" your thinking.

[zuke scoot]

Your "light weight" catagory has bikes that outmass some of your "middle weight".

I think you should "reevaluate" your thinking.

Ok...whatever...technicalities...they are grouped by engine size and price.

[Cricket1]

I chose the 650F.


However, the 650R does not have a fuel gauge

The Ninja has a fuel gauge and a gear indicator for 2009. Plus a few other minor "tweaks". (not sure if I like the looks of the digital speedo tho)

[zuke scoot]

It does for 2009, and a gear indicator. (not sure if I like the looks of the digital speedo)

Which one are you talking about?

[Kiwi]

Which one are you talking about?

He's talking about the '09 650R.

[JamesG]

Ok...whatever...technicalities...they are grouped by engine size and price.

Back of the class with the both of you.  

There big differences between a twin cylinder (vee or parrallel) and a inline four cylinder engine.

[Hickey]

I really like what Kawasaki has done to the Ninja 650 for 2009.    Perhaps if that is how they had made the thing from the start, I would have chosen differently.  Maybe.  

[brianm767]

Can I do a write in?  out of the bikes you mentioned, I like the FZ , but I would go with my write in first, SV650S

[psyco1]

I'd go with the Versys over all of them, just for the riding postiton and front & rear adjustable suspension, but the Wee Strom and SV are both in the running for me.

[Zerosum]

I also voted for the 650R.  I love how light and narrow it is.

I didn't know about this FZ-6R.  That's cool.  I like the seating position of the FZ-6.  Never ridden one, though.

I've sat on a GSX650 and was appaled at how heavy it was.  The weight did not feel centered either, that wide inline-four motor really does things to the CoG that I don't like.

In general, I tend to gravitate toward twins.  I like the light weight and narrow CoG.  The only inline-4s that really interest me are the first-gen FZ-1, 919, Bandit 1250 and ZRX1200.

[Zerosum]

Can I do a write in?  out of the bikes you mentioned, I like the FZ , but I would go with my write in first, SV650S

Nice!  That's the SV650S that Suzuki should have built!

[mikeyman]

When I bought my used 06 Ninja 650r in early 07, the only other choice was really the SV650. I liked the ergos of the naked bike, but wanted a windscreen. My 06 Ninja has been great for the past 15k miles. I like the broad torque curve on the parallel twin and the fuel mileage is in the 50 range. Its light, tossable and looks good too.

The other two bikes really strike me a detuned versions of more focused designs. The ninja, while built to a low price point, was still a new design aimed at the target. I think today I would buy it agian.

[Lon]

GSX650F.

Biggest carry capacity = less stressed on tours.

[jonl]

Skip the cheapened "R" version, and the FZ6 would be a very credible touring alternative.  

I like the GSX in black, but the blue not so much.  The GSX should be offered with ABS, since the others in the family already do (DL, SV).

I like the Ninja, but in the showroom, found the ergos a bit cramped, and by all reports, the suspension could be better.  I would choose the Versys over the Ninja.

I am surprised the poll didn't include the most popular touring bike in the class, the DL650.  Mine is a 2006.

[JamesG]

?



 

[CheesyRider]

The Ninja has a fuel gauge and a gear indicator for 2009. Plus a few other minor "tweaks". (not sure if I like the looks of the digital speedo tho)

Are you sure the 2009 650R has a gear indicator?  In the specs under "instruments/controls" they list the following:

• New MotoGP-inspired multi-function instrumentation, which includes a new fuel gauge, digital speedometer, clock, odometer, dual trip meters and a bar-style digital tachometer
• The new layout allows the clock and trip meter to be viewed simultaneously
• Red backlighting for the LCD screen adds to the sporty image while the area around the instrument panel presents a clean, finished front cowl interior
• Redesigned handlebar holder and new curved shapes on the brake master cylinder reservoir and clutch lever contribute further to the Ninja 650R’s improved appearance

It wouldn't suprise me if they missed putting it in their specs.  I've seen lots of typos and omissions in specs on manufacturer's websites over the years.  The Vento V-THUNDER XL has had "disco" brakes for at least a year. http://www.vento.com/

[Cricket1]

Are you sure the 2009 650R has a gear indicator?  

I am not totally sure, as I was relying on Phoenix Rider from a post in the KAWI section about it-"Of course, they did add a gear indicator- which all the little kids on the 650R forums were complaining about."

[BluStreak]

Great topic for someone getting back into the sport!  Hey, it's my impression that the 650F is new in '09.'  Were they made in previous years with the up bars?   :headscratch:My impression after reading all of the posts is that the real question would more apporpriately be the way you're going to use the bike most of the time.  Don't know about the FZ6R, but it would seem to me that for touring, the 650F would be the choice, maybe the 650R for more local commuting type of riding.  I'm amazed you didn't include the SV650's in your condsiderations......

[Hickey]

Great topic for someone getting back into the sport!  Hey, it's my impression that the 650F is new in '09.'  Were they made in previous years with the up bars?   :headscratch:My impression after reading all of the posts is that the real question would more apporpriately be the way you're going to use the bike most of the time.  Don't know about the FZ6R, but it would seem to me that for touring, the 650F would be the choice, maybe the 650R for more local commuting type of riding.  I'm amazed you didn't include the SV650's in your condsiderations......

The Suzuki 650F is essentially a water-cooled Bandit 650 with a fairing.  Those were sold in Europe from 2006 or 2007.  They were never available here in the States.  The first version from that family we saw was the 650F in 2008.

On a related note, the water-cooled Bandit 1250 and the 650F share the same frame.  I'm fairly certain that many of the engine castings are the same as well.  This is part of why the 650F is heavy for its class.  But is is also over built.  It ought to be a tough little tank.  Another effect is that many of the Bandit 1250 accessories also fit the 650F, like luggage.

[Doug Just Doug]

The Suzuki 650F is essentially a water-cooled Bandit 650 with a fairing.  Those were sold in Europe from 2006 or 2007.  They were never available here in the States.  The first version from that family we saw was the 650F in 2008.

On a related note, the water-cooled Bandit 1250 and the 650F share the same frame.  I'm fairly certain that many of the engine castings are the same as well.  This is part of why the 650F is heavy for its class.  But is is also over built.  It ought to be a tough little tank.  Another effect is that many of the Bandit 1250 accessories also fit the 650F, like luggage.

I subscribe to UK's Bike and Ride, and they rave about the 650F for commuting/ST'ing.  They particularly love the smooth-running engine.  I don't know if the US version would be tuned different due to EPA or Cali. regs, tho.  One of the mags also pointed out that the 1250 engine would bolt right in to the 650F.

[ctbandit]

i actually think the yami is ugly. If I had to choose I'd likely take the Suzi, cause it looks like sex with the bags on.

[SVNET]

It is so funny to see people talk about this new generation of bikes...

The SV maniacs  are all disapointed about the new Galdius.  Equally powerfull, but UGLY.

The FZ6 Freaks they all hate the new FZ6R, once again total disapointment. Pretty, but Anemic.

And even thought the 650r continues to be the same anemic bike as it original was,
the green lovers are also disapointed at the new 650r, but this time why ?

In short, the American crowd is just a hard crowd to please, 3 different bikes competing for the same market and yet we manage to dislike all of them.  The wish dream here is that these company will just put out for sale a GSX-r, R6 or ZX 636 with a tag price of $6500.  Keep on Dreaming...

Here is my take at each bike:

1. FZ6r

My first bike was a Yamaha Seca, the original master piece from where the FZ6/FZ6r originated, so I am bias and quite happy to see a new version of the perffect bike I once owned.  I just hope it does not inherit the buzziness from the Seca which the FZ6 inherited 100%.

Personally, I think Yamaha hit the spot right in between the 650r/650F.  Very cute bike, very agressive looking but with good ergos, best combination. And the #1 point that sets it appart, Yamaha always produces very high quality products from the finish to the sound of the engines.

Based only on looks, I would go with the FZ6r, I just can't get enough of its looks.

2. 650F

Based only on features, I would have to go with Suzuki products, always jammed pack with little details that I like.
Based on smooth engine, I would have to go with suzuki, both the FZ6 and 650r are known for buzziness maniacs.

As faithfull as I want to be to Yamaha, my prior two bike and my current bike has been Suzuki, I owned the SV650s and now I own a C50 cruiser.

I like the front looks of the bike, but not a fan of its tail. It is not the most comfortable bike either.  If you don't have long arms, you will be laying your belly all over the tank in order to reach the handle bars.  The bike is top Heavy, but worse, the weight is not well balance.  I own a cruiser that is 530LBs and It doesn't feel as heavy as the 650F.  The 650F has the feel of my friend's VRod, when you lift the bike from its kick stand position, you see the weight of the bike sink the front forks, scary...

But, we must admit that Suzuki meant business when they created the SV650s, and they made a good quality product with a good quality finish and packed with cutting edge technology features.  Remember, the sharp lined SV came out on 2003, it still looks good and it still have more features then the 650r. But it is also the most uncomfortable bike I ever rode, you get all the pain and torture of a super sport bike at a much more reduced price tag.

3. 650R

Based on comfort, affordability, looks and its light weight foot print, I would have to go with the Kawasaki.
I deals for more local commutes in heavy traffic areas so that you can zip the traffic.

You have to give it to Kawasaki, they re-invented themselves and created a spot in this market out of thin air.  But couldn't they have made it more cheapy looking.  The 650r has that look and feel of a plastic toy. It does not feel like a Japan made product, instead it feels like it came straight from Taiwan.
The cheapy radiador, the bad welds on the frame, you name it the bike is cheap.  And the engine sounds and feels more like the Ninja 500r.

But the 650r offers something the others done, a very attactive design combine with a very up right riding position, something that not always come together and on top of that it is very light weight. So you get an easy to handle bike, that is cute and actractive with a very comfy riding position and you got the perffect commuter. Last but not least, cheaper the all the others so you get to save a few bucks.

For me, the perffect bike.  I am poor so saving money is important.  I am not a spring chicken, so having a good riding position is a must.  The bike offers me the pretty sport look that I always wanted...

Final Notes:

I am glad that the factors of this changing world has brought these companies into sense and they are starting to respond to the need of people like me.

1. I can't affort a top dollar high end machine, but I surely do love the LOOKS.
2. I am not a track racer so I don't need all the high tech components, but I love the LOOKS.
3. I am not a spring chicken and would not stand a super sport bike, but I sure love the LOOKS.

So this new 650cc market has brought to people like the all that we ever wanted.

Affordable bikes, that have all the aggressive looks of a super sport but with comfort.  PERFFECT.

I don't need the power of R6 so the anemic twin of the 650r will do just fine.
I don't need the front forks of a GSX-R, so the soft suspension of 650F will do just fine.
I don't need the agressiveness of a CBR so the comfort of the FZ6r will do just fine.

I just can't wait to trade my C50 cruiser for either FZ6r or 650r, Sorry Suzuki...Too heavy and ugly.

[chimera]

^^Good first post SVNET^^ thanks for your thoughts

[bugeyed]

2. 650F

Based only on features, I would have to go with Suzuki products, always jammed pack with little details that I like.
Based on smooth engine, I would have to go with suzuki, both the FZ6 and 650r are known for buzziness maniacs.

As faithfull as I want to be to Yamaha, my prior two bike and my current bike has been Suzuki, I owned the SV650s and now I own a C50 cruiser.

I like the front looks of the bike, but not a fan of its tail. It is not the most comfortable bike either.  If you don't have long arms, you will be laying your belly all over the tank in order to reach the handle bars.  The bike is top Heavy, but worse, the weight is not well balance.  I own a cruiser that is 530LBs and It doesn't feel as heavy as the 650F.  The 650F has the feel of my friend's VRod, when you lift the bike from its kick stand position, you see the weight of the bike sink the front forks, scary...

But, we must admit that Suzuki meant business when they created the SV650s, and they made a good quality product with a good quality finish and packed with cutting edge technology features.  Remember, the sharp lined SV came out on 2003, it still looks good and it still have more features then the 650r. But it is also the most uncomfortable bike I ever rode, you get all the pain and torture of a super sport bike at a much more reduced price tag.

As an owner of a 650F, I feel compelled to respond to a few remarks. Let me start by saying I have zero experience with the other 2 bikes referenced in this very insightful post. Now on to the retort, yep, the 650F is portly, I give you that, it is an I-4 after all. The remark about the forks sinking when lifted up from the side stand has me a little concerned. I just tried this on my bike, the forks sink maybe 1". Don't they all do that? I mean my Beemer sinks like 2-3 inches. Maybe the bike you tried this on was mis-adjusted. I really don't know as I haven't gotten into the whole suspension tuning thing, but I seem to remember every bike I've ever ridden on sinking the forks at least a tad when brought upright. I think the extra weight on this bike makes it a really stable platform for a sport touring bike. It doesn't blow around too bad unless caught is some severe side winds, which I've done. Also, I believe the weight is pretty neutral, it handles quite nimbly. I have yet to detect any desire of the front end to push or get nervous while turning. My Beemer is top heavy, the 650F is not even close to that, but in comparison to the other 2 bikes in this thread perhaps. I have no way to judge that.

For me the ergos are pretty darn good, it fits me quite well, but I am 6'2" so the long arms help with that. The 650F is easier on my back and I can put on more comfortable miles than I can with my R1200CL, which is a cruiser and tips the scales at right about 700 lbs.

All that being said, I'm not looking for a flame war. I am sure the other bikes also have very happy owners and may have issue with some things said about them, no problem. All the information we include in these forums will ultimately help others with decisions on which bike they should look at when the time comes. Oh, one other thing, looks are very subjective. I wouldn't say the Zuke is "ugly" by any stretch, and everybody is certainly entitled to their own opinion. I'm extremely happy with this bike, and I think that it will provide many miles of enjoyment for anybody who decides to own one.

[chimera]

As an owner of a 650F, I feel compelled to respond to a few remarks. Let me start by saying I have zero experience with the other 2 bikes referenced in this very insightful post. Now on to the retort, yep, the 650F is portly, I give you that, it is an I-4 after all. The remark about the forks sinking when lifted up from the side stand has me a little concerned. I just tried this on my bike, the forks sink maybe 1". Don't they all do that? I mean my Beemer sinks like 2-3 inches. Maybe the bike you tried this on was mis-adjusted. I really don't know as I haven't gotten into the whole suspension tuning thing, but I seem to remember every bike I've ever ridden on sinking the forks at least a tad when brought upright. I think the extra weight on this bike makes it a really stable platform for a sport touring bike. It doesn't blow around too bad unless caught is some severe side winds, which I've done. Also, I believe the weight is pretty neutral, it handles quite nimbly. I have yet to detect any desire of the front end to push or get nervous while turning. My Beemer is top heavy, the 650F is not even close to that, but in comparison to the other 2 bikes in this thread perhaps. I have no way to judge that.

For me the ergos are pretty darn good, it fits me quite well, but I am 6'2" so the long arms help with that. The 650F is easier on my back and I can put on more comfortable miles than I can with my R1200CL, which is a cruiser and tips the scales at right about 700 lbs.

All that being said, I'm not looking for a flame war. I am sure the other bikes also have very happy owners and may have issue with some things said about them, no problem. All the information we include in these forums will ultimately help others with decisions on which bike they should look at when the time comes. Oh, one other thing, looks are very subjective. I wouldn't say the Zuke is "ugly" by any stretch, and everybody is certainly entitled to their own opinion. I'm extremely happy with this bike, and I think that it will provide many miles of enjoyment for anybody who decides to own one.

Agreed.  This is why it is so hard to choose........

I really like the looks of the 650r

I really like the touring capabilities of the GSX650F

I really like the hot motor in the FZ6R

One of these three is probably going to be my next bike if I can ever decide which one.

[SVNET]

As an owner of a 650F, I feel compelled to respond to a few remarks. Let me start by saying I have zero experience with the other 2 bikes referenced in this very insightful post. Now on to the retort, yep, the 650F is portly, I give you that, it is an I-4 after all. The remark about the forks sinking when lifted up from the side stand has me a little concerned. I just tried this on my bike, the forks sink maybe 1". Don't they all do that? I mean my Beemer sinks like 2-3 inches. Maybe the bike you tried this on was mis-adjusted. I really don't know as I haven't gotten into the whole suspension tuning thing, but I seem to remember every bike I've ever ridden on sinking the forks at least a tad when brought upright. I think the extra weight on this bike makes it a really stable platform for a sport touring bike. It doesn't blow around too bad unless caught is some severe side winds, which I've done. Also, I believe the weight is pretty neutral, it handles quite nimbly. I have yet to detect any desire of the front end to push or get nervous while turning. My Beemer is top heavy, the 650F is not even close to that, but in comparison to the other 2 bikes in this thread perhaps. I have no way to judge that.

For me the ergos are pretty darn good, it fits me quite well, but I am 6'2" so the long arms help with that. The 650F is easier on my back and I can put on more comfortable miles than I can with my R1200CL, which is a cruiser and tips the scales at right about 700 lbs.

All that being said, I'm not looking for a flame war. I am sure the other bikes also have very happy owners and may have issue with some things said about them, no problem. All the information we include in these forums will ultimately help others with decisions on which bike they should look at when the time comes. Oh, one other thing, looks are very subjective. I wouldn't say the Zuke is "ugly" by any stretch, and everybody is certainly entitled to their own opinion. I'm extremely happy with this bike, and I think that it will provide many miles of enjoyment for anybody who decides to own one.

No offese taken and like you said, this open conversation will only be of benefits for those trying to make up their mind.

With regard the forks thing, it all depents your point of reference, I am a small guy so I have always own smaller and light bikes, so when compared to my experience and memory of the SV650 and my current 530lb C50 cruiser, the 650F does feel TOP heavy and it sinks the forks in a way that the SV650 never did.  But, when compared to the tanks that you have owned in the past, the 650F might be just fine...

With regard the comfort issue, a person with your height and thus length of arms will never have any issues reaching the handle bar on most bikes and will always be able to maintain a good sit up position on most bikes.  Me on the other hand, I am only 5'8' and for my height, I do have pretty long arms, but I still found the 650F a little too forward for my taste, but again it is all about point of reference. Coming off the SV650S the 650F would proabably feel just fine to me, but coming off the C50 cruiser, the 650F just feel to forward and top heavy.

With regard Suzuki in GENERAL, I am a huge fan of them.  Suzuki make their bikes and design their bikes in a way that makes sense.  I used to stare at my SV650s and now at my C50 and I just admire how suzuki laid everything out, it just purely makes sense.  These bikes are like a piece of ART drawing. It is so easy to work on these bikes compared to other brands.  Everything is located just in the right spot and well made.  All the parts just fit together well, like someone actually thought about it.

Now, from the little bit of reading I have done on the 650F around other forums, that is not quite the case with this particular model. the 650F seems to be some what of an adaptation, and effort from suzuki to create a new model by trying to fit some older parts together.  Trying to dress up a bike originally made to be naked, now they have find creative ways to tuck all the guts inside and make it work.  For example, look at the multiple black side panels, it seem like they were just creating little bit of plastic covers here and there to cover up all the little holes that were left behind.  The 650F is nothing more then a dressed Bandit and because of that there are some charasteristic of this bike that one just have to accept and live with it...  It is an old bike brought to live in a new world ahead of its time...

Again, point of reference is an important factor, a bike will feel as perfect to its owner depending on the deal that owner got on the bike.  If you got rip off on the bike and you pay way more then you should had, then every single little thing on the bike will become a big issue.  If on the other hand, you got a steal deal on a 650F, the bike will be the perfect bike to you, an awsome machine at a price that errases all of its flaws...  Just a reference point...

[bugeyed]

You're right about the point of reference

We are really picking nits when comparing bikes anyway. Let's face it, the quality of these bikes is quite high. I am sure that anybody would be happy with any of them. Now there are some significant differences that will sway the decision one way or the other, after all that's what this whole thread is about. My mantra is if it feels good to you, makes you happy and fills a void in your life, then you are obligated to commit without fear of reprisal from your peers (as long as it's legal   )

[yellow500]

I've got a friend with a '06 650R.  He likes the weight of the bike, the peppy twin, the underslung exhaust, and the great gas mileage--50 mpg at sea level, 56 mph in the mountains.  However, he complains that the suspension is cheap, and the bike sailed around during crosswinds at 5000 ft on the Blue Ridge Parkway.  He's bought about 50 feet of cheap Home-Depot weather stripping in attempts to kill buzzes in the fairing.  For the money he thinks the bike is wonderful.  I'm not a true fan of the bike due to lack of a gradrail (big $$ from Kawi), and the rear end doesn't seem to have facilities to strap on saddle bags--and the tank is peaky, and I'm not sure a big tank bag would work well.  At 5'10" with long arms, the bike seems to fit me fine (while sitting on it--I have not ridden it, and I don't have the heart to ask)--while my ex500 seems to have a slightly longer reach than I'd like.  He complained that the grip area of the 650R bars is canted too far in.  I believe the Versys addresses all of these questions, and the Versys is sure as heck lighter than a V-Strom or a 650F.

The 650F is intriguing, except for 43 mpg and 530 lbs.  And that muffler looks like a strap-on trashcan, and the headlight looks like a big silver candy-corn.  But hey, flat torque curve, good riding position, nice (expensive??) farkle from Suzuki--if the 650F hangs around for several years (and being a civilized Bandit, it probably will), I might be tempted to spring for a used one, Suzuki hard bags and all.  I'll try to hit Bike Week in Daytona for a demo ride.

[some_finn]

I rode my GSX650F 24500km (15200 miles) this season.
I get 47 mpg(US) if not thrashing it. I have a Yoshimura exhaust and had the injection remapped (only needed the tiniest bit, a waste of money).
I did a couple of proper tours (Nordkapp, Switzerland/Central Europe (pics here and here) including some 500+ miles days.
I have Kappa 33 liter contoured panniers (SW Motech QD racks) and a 35 liter Kappa top case.
Other mods include a MRA Vario Touring Screen, 15mm handlebar risers, heated grips, Scorpio alarm, Puig cras pads. (pics here note two pages)

I do a lot of riding around the local twisties, 150-250 mile afternoon rides mostly. Without the luggage it performs quite nicely on that duty too. Mind you I'm no Rossi.
A bit heavy when I have to manhandle it for some reason, but I don't really notice the weight while under engine power.
Good mid range makes it pleasant to cruise around on, and if you rev it you'll love it   Especially with the Yoshi screaming  
Ergos are good for me (5'10.5", slim, long back, short legs), I can ride it from dusk till dawn.

Before buying it I did test ride the Kawa ER-6f (Ninja 650R I believe in the US?) and Versys, Suzuki 650 V-Strom, BMW F800ST, Honda CBF600/S.

I'm thinking of upgrading next season. Triumph Sprint ST 1050 maybe... (Too bad Ducati no longer makes the ST3).

[wolf46]

Starting to lean towards fz6r, was looking hard at the fz6. Will have to test ride one, I don't mind the bit of loss of power between the 3 listed. I'm coming from cruisers and think I'll like the low seat hieght and bars that are somewhat up and back. I don't really expect I'll even use all any of these have, will be mostly commuting with weekend country rides and only 1 or 2 8-10+ hour trips per year. No matter what I choose I'll have to get used to the higher rpms of these bikes, only thing I think I'll miss is the sound of a twin cruiser (I had straight cobra's, could set off car alarms LOL).

[mikeyman]

Just took my '06 Ninja 650r for a VERY cold spin around to keep it from feeling neglected. Funny, every time I think of upgrading to another bike, I remember this one is paid for, economical, reliable and as fun as a barrel of monkeys. Lets see if I feel the same after the motorcycle show in two weeks!

[Hunter]

Where is the vote for "none of the above"? ZZR 600 would be my pick.

[SVNET]

Just took my '06 Ninja 650r for a VERY cold spin around to keep it from feeling neglected. Funny, every time I think of upgrading to another bike, I remember this one is paid for, economical, reliable and as fun as a barrel of monkeys. Lets see if I feel the same after the motorcycle show in two weeks!

In my way to church today I saw one in plasma blue at a red light and I just started drawling over it.

The wife said, "do not even think about"...

But, the same as you, now that I don't have $5K debt on my back, I feel so free and light that I don't want to go back to that heavy burden of a pending loan...

Right after I saw a guy on a SV650-S, it looks nice with the new lower faring but I did notice how bended the guys knees were and I just said ouch... Not comfy at all... Comfy is a big plus for the 650R...

[mikeyman]

Where is the vote for "none of the above"? ZZR 600 would be my pick.

ZZR is a fine pick too, but I am not much into carburetors. A real no brainer if they fit it with EFI.

[Phenix_Rider]

ZZR is a fine pick too, but I am not much into carburetors. A real no brainer if they fit it with EFI.

Carbs are easy enough to work on- just don't neglect them.  If you drop stuff like the floats, or leave nasty fuel in for too long, you get to work on them a lot more often.

[falconati]

They're all good picks, and about the same price, but I went with the Yamaha based solely on looks.  This is the new 2009 FZ6R:

[SVNET]

They're all good picks, and about the same price, but I went with the Yamaha based solely on looks.  This is the new 2009 FZ6R:

Here is some background info on the ancient blue prints of the bike you like so much today...

Quote from the internet:

"The Seca II was Yamaha's entry in the 'bargain motorcycles' sector. When it first came out, its competition was the Kawasaki EX500, the Bandit 400, and the GS500E. It had many advantages over all of them. The motor was based on the Diversion 400 motor used elsewhere in the world. It was put in a full size steel tube frame. The Seca was a stylish motorcycle, and performed very well. It was comfortable, simple to work on, and a decent performer. The two valve per cylinder engine was no technological marvel, but it was reliable and easy to live with. The half fairing did a good job of protecting the rider from the elements. The Seca II was a very well rounded package. If a new Seca II's price is a best buy, then buying an old version of the exact same machine for less should earn the buyer a place in the bargain-hunter's hall of fame. Power in 1992 was 49.1bhp, with torque of 35.4ft/lb's. Wet weight was 450lb's."

End Quote...

Note that the Seca was always known to be a weak link, lots of promises but not a lot delivered specially when compared to its direct competitor, the Bandit 600.  Up until today, these two bikes still compete for the same market, but the FZ6 seems to now have the upper hand when it comes to power, it is no longer the weak link the Seca was known for.

I owned a copy of the last year the Seca was made in 1998.  Yamaha went without a replacement for this bike up until 2006, when the FZ6 came out.  But just like Suzuki is doing today with the Bandit 600 and the GSX-650F, Yamaha never wanted for the FZ6 be associated with the old Seca.

Maybe because the Seca was my first bike, but I will always love it and it will always feel as the perfect bike, except for two things.  First, cold blooded bike as no other, it would take 15min riding for this bike to start get a hold of itself in cold weather.
Second, Buzzy as no other will ever be, from 55mph to 65mph, this bike would shake your teeth out, but 70mph and above it will be smooth as silk, it just had that rough spot.  From what I have read online, at least the earlier version of the FZ6 did inherit the buzziness...

Now that you own the latest version, is your bike buzzy at any speed ?




And the Cutest of them all:

1982 Turbo...!

Late 1970s

[chimera]

Yamaha never wanted for the FZ6 be associated with the old Seca.

And I think that is a shame.  ALOT of manufacturer's moved away from giving bikes NAMES instead of alphanumeric nomenclature.

BTW, I've got your old bike.  98 Seca.  Really enjoying it.

When it comes time to pick one of these three, it looks like the 650r has the lowest price.  That is a major deciding factor, for me.

[Kool shades]

Nothing technical... I just like the look of the Suzuki better.
 (But I might be a little Biased)

[SVNET]

For those following the FZ6r, here are some pictures I took at the dealer.

My first impression from just looking at the bike, not actually ridden it...

NOT Impressed at all.

Very cute and pretty lines, but very cheap feel to it.

There is no Free lunch there, Yamaha meant it when they said entry level.

Definitely a step down from the FZ6.

Clearly targeted at the Ninja 650R, direct competition not only in design, but in quality too.

Very straight up riding position and felt comfy for the 2 min I sat on it.

It does not feel heavy at all, very tiny little bike, any body can flat foot.

I would love to hear how it sounds and test ride it to see how it handles.

If what you want is an alternative to the 650R, then the FZ6r is just that.

If what you are looking for is a better $7K Inline four then:

The Suzuki GSX650F feels much more built like a Tough FORD when compared to the FZ6r.

Enjoy the pictures:

[artyboy]

I went with the GSX650f.  It's got plenty of power.  The weight makes it feel planted on the interstate no matter how bad the wind is.  The fairing provides good wind protection.  It looks good with hard bags.  It just looks and feels like a big, solidly built machine.  The FZ6R would be my second choice.  I think it looks really good but it seemed too small for me.  For riding around town it would've been fine but I dunno how comfortable it would be for the long hauls.  In my opinion the ninja looks cheap, cheesy and chinsy.

[SVNET]

I went with the GSX650f.  It's got plenty of power.  The weight makes it feel planted on the interstate no matter how bad the wind is.  The fairing provides good wind protection.  It looks good with hard bags.  It just looks and feels like a big, solidly built machine.  The FZ6R would be my second choice.  I think it looks really good but it seemed too small for me.  For riding around town it would've been fine but I dunno how comfortable it would be for the long hauls.  In my opinion the ninja looks cheap, cheesy and chinsy.

Well Sir, I am very happy for you and I think you did make the best CHOICE.

>>>>  In my opinion the ninja looks cheap, cheesy and chinsy.

I still have to see the 2009 Ninja 650R, but based on the 2008 model I completely agree with you.

And since the FZ6R is a direct competitor to the 650R, it was also made too look cheap, cheesy and chinsy.

I am glad that I am not the only one that got this feeling about the Ninja, cheap, cheesy and chinsy.

>>>>  It just looks and feels like a big, solidly built machine.

And the reason it looks and feels like that is because it was not made based on the 650R concept.

The GSX 650F is a repackaged Bandit 650, which means it carries all the quality from that ERA when bikes were built with pride, and built well.

The only bad thing about the GSX 650F is the jump in price for 2009...  This is getting ridiculus...

A grant more just for a color change from black to orange...  What a rip off...

[keppyou812]

Hmmm,
Any of these bikes would serve anybody well.  

But if I'm putting my hard earned cash towards a purchase, I don't think it would be any of these.

I would be leaning towards a Triumph Street Triple, or the Aprilia Shiver.  Most likely the Street Triple.

If I wanted a full fairing, I would be between the Kawasaki ZZR600, or the Suzuki SV650SF.

[artyboy]

The only bad thing about the GSX 650F is the jump in price for 2009...  This is getting ridiculus...

A grant more just for a color change from black to orange...  What a rip off...

I haven't seen any shops with the new GSX in stock yet.  There are so many '08s still floating around, though, that it's really easy to get a killer deal on one.  You won't pay anywhere near MSRP if you buy one now.  

[chimera]

I haven't seen any shops with the new GSX in stock yet.  There are so many '08s still floating around, though, that it's really easy to get a killer deal on one.  You won't pay anywhere near MSRP if you buy one now.  

Big congrats on the new ride!    May I ask how much off MSRP you managed to get?

[Cricket1]

Hmmm,
Any of these bikes would serve anybody well. 

But if I'm putting my hard earned cash towards a purchase, I don't think it would be any of these.

I would be leaning towards a Triumph Street Triple, or the Aprilia Shiver.  Most likely the Street Triple.

If I wanted a full fairing, I would be between the Kawasaki ZZR600, or the Suzuki SV650SF.

Keppy;

I agree that the Street Triple, or Shiver would maybe make a better choice, if he was willing to give up the wind protection. Also, for alot of folks the lack of a dealership nearby is a deal killer.

The ZZR has carbs and the SV650S has radical ergos that would need a bunch of tweaks to match up with the other 3.

[chimera]

 In my opinion the ninja looks cheap, cheesy and chinsy.

2009 650r




2009 GSX650f



2009 FZ6R




I guess I'm cheesy.  I like the 650r best.  FWIW I would LOVE any of the three and it really all comes down to the $$$$.

[ctbandit]

I hate the damn pipe on the Suzy. (just like i hate it on my bandit)

I love how easy the shock is to adjust on the kawi, and the exhaust placement. It looks great too. I'd prob go for the kawi myself.

[Hickey]

I agree about the pipe on the Suzuki.     However, I balanced that against the improved instruments, headlights, alternator power, and available center stand.  The Suzuki is nicely featured compared to the 2008 Ninja 650.  (For 2009 the Ninja has improved instruments with the addition of a fuel gauge.  The 2009 Yamaha seems nicely featured as well.)

[SVNET]

> I haven't seen any shops with the new GSX in stock yet.  There are so many '08s still floating > around, though, that it's really easy to get a killer deal on one.  You won't pay anywhere near MSRP if >you buy one now.

Yes, I agree that there are a lot of left over 650F around and a killer deal could be achieve, BUT...

Suzuki no longer has a contract with HSBC and thus no longer offers the 2 yrs low interest, low payment.

So the good deals on the GSX 650F at this point are for those who can either buy cash or those who are very credit worthy that a regular bank would give them finance.

As bad as customer service HSBC had, but it is the only bank that woud loan to risky people.

>> I would be leaning towards a Triumph Street Triple, or the Aprilia Shiver.  Most likely the Street Triple.

Please not that those are not entry level bikes as the one we are discussing here and they also cost a lot more so those bike does not quality for this market.  We are talking about $7K MSRP TOPs NEW.

>> If I wanted a full fairing, I would be between the Kawasaki ZZR600, or the Suzuki SV650SF.

The ZZR600 is out of the market now, no longer listed on the Kwi website for 2009.  Even it was still in the market, I would not get it, radical position with clips on bars and the killer, still a carb bike.

The SV650S with faring now is top quality bike and a lot of bang for when it used to cost $6500, but it has too much of a radical riding position, that is a 30min bike tops, I know it, I owned a NEW 2006.

>>> I guess I'm cheesy.  I like the 650r best.  FWIW I would LOVE any of the three and it really all comes down to the $$$$.

Here is my personal take, something that might not mean anything to anyone else, but it does to me.
I like for the bike to have a nice broad fat gas tank, somehow that makes the deal for me, it makes it mean, agressive and some how good quality looking.

That whole skinny tank found on the 2006-2008 Ninja and now on the FZ6R ninja copy cat is such a turn off.

The 650R is at fault for all these backwards down grade in quality that we are now getting in 2009.

Look at Yamaha, why even bother with offering a nice bike like the FZ6 for $6500, just pull out the lego box, match something that looks like a bike and cheap to built, make it look like the 650R and join the Kawasaki wagon raping people...  Same goes for the Gladius...

I must admit that the 2006-2008 650R looks good on picture, but when you see it in person it is a complete turn off.  It doesn't take long after looking at the 650R to see that is a product with a Taiwan quality, NOT JAPAN.

I have not seen the 650R 2009, maybe it is built better...

[denisep]

Even it was still in the market, I would not get it, radical position with clips on bars and the killer, still a carb bike.

I could put helibars on mine for a couple hundred bucks (if the bars become an issue).   My Z cranks up and is warm and ready to go by the time I have my helmet on..   (22 degrees this morning and no problems at all)..   I'm not sure what the big deal on the carbs are..    I may have to buy a FI bike next just so I can see what all the hype is about.

The front of the Z lights up like a Christmas tree as opposed to other bikes-- NO ONE pulls out in front of me anymore---  most places still have a few ZZR600's in the back, ready for sale!

[keppyou812]

Ehhh, what can I say,  I'm a naked kind of guy..  

That and I'm one of those old timers that still works on his own carbs.

[Hickey]

Ehhh, what can I say,  I'm a naked kind of guy..  

That and I'm one of those old timers that still works on his own carbs.

The Street Triple is a fuel injected, modern bike.  The Shiver is not only fuel injected but also has a computer controlled throttle system.  Neither of those bikes is old school.  Very naked and cool, but also very high tech.

If you want a super fun, naked, carburated bike consider a KTM 950 Supermoto.  Although it is tall, it isn't heavy.  There are leftovers at dealers that might be very well discounted too.

[SVNET]

I could put helibars on mine for a couple hundred bucks (if the bars become an issue).   My Z cranks up and is warm and ready to go by the time I have my helmet on..   (22 degrees this morning and no problems at all)..   I'm not sure what the big deal on the carbs are..    I may have to buy a FI bike next just so I can see what all the hype is about.

The front of the Z lights up like a Christmas tree as opposed to other bikes-- NO ONE pulls out in front of me anymore---  most places still have a few ZZR600's in the back, ready for sale!

I like that you love what you ride and that is a good sign, I am not trying to pick on you...

Not too long ego I read a thread explaining that when you reading comments on a particular bike any where, to trust more the middle of the road reviews and opinions, people who proudly give you the highlights but are not afraid to comment on its short comings.

It was said to be cautious about those who just praise the bike and those who just trash the bikes. To carefully read between the lines so you can extract the truth about subtle details that although not highlighted, but such details do show up every time every where...

My dad always said that when you lived next to a river and you heard the river singing, that was the time to start packing up because a rush of water is coming to you.  So when you read subtle complains about a bike on different threads on different forums at different times, that is the river singing to you.

Most people here who have been riding for a while at some point in their careers have owned or ridden a carburetor bike and have experience the traits of such a system. Just like a Record vs CD, the CD will never sound like a record, but who wants to be dealing with records anymore, it is so much easy to just skip a song or put it on repeat and not have to worry about cleaning the record or changing the needles.

I read a thread of a guy that was thinking of buying a used 07 ZZR, low miles, mint conditions and he was asking for advice on the bike... He test rode the bike and said that at first it ran a little rough but after the bike came up to temperature it ran beautifully... There goes the HINT HINT HINT.

Last night I went to an Irish bar with my friend and we had a blast, great live music, I love that drunken sailor son...  I drive a fuel injected Geo Tracker that fires right up no matter the temperature, he drives a real Jeep that uses carburetor.  When we left the bar his first comment was I hope my Jeep will turn on because it just doesn't like the cold, there goes the HINT HINT HINT...  Carbs have a mind of their own and can be a pain in the rear at times...

Next, the whole Heli bars hipe, do not believe it...

Heli bars can only race the handle bar by an inch at the most, for some people that is all they need, for most that's just not enough...  Heli bars are limited by the existing cable and hoses on the bike, you would have to buy new cables and hoses to make a $500 converti bars work and they look horrible.

I owned one of the most uncomfortable bikes ever made, the SV650 ( S ), I tried everything that there is to make it work, in the end I just had to get rid of it, I spent $300 on a set of Heli bars, I paid $200 on a gel seat, I tried lowering the bike so that I would not slip down to the tank.  I tried the hold the tank with your inner tights, use my upper body to hold up myself, I joined a Gym to get myself in shape so that I can out stand the punishment of the bike...  When you are not meant to fit a radial riding position, certain bikes are just a nightmare no matter what you do...

But go to the SVRider forum and bring that up, they will shoot you, to them the SV perfect. But, every where you read about the SV650, if you pay attention, you will pick up on the comfort issues.  Just the other day while looking on craigs list I see an ad for a 2004 SV650S, the guys goes on to say how much he loves the bike and how much fun is to ride the bike, then buried in his description, he wishes to trade for a bike that can allow for longer trips, Subtle HINT HINT, there is the clue...

Talk to any Ninja 650R and Versys lover, they will denied until the end any problems with engine vibration around 3K RPMs on those bikes.  That 650cc parallel engine has a real issue with a rough spot on the RPM band. The river have been singing in between the lines...  On those bikes 3K RPM is about 45-50 mph, that is the speed limit for most roads around here.  That means to keep that bike from vibrating, I would have to either break the speed law, or slow down the traffic behind me.

Proof of the reality of the issue is that for 2007 Kawasaki offered a foam kit for the 650R fairing, in 2008 Kawasaki actually installed the foam kit on the fairing from factory, for 2009 Kawasaki decided to revise the frame of the 650R with rubber engine mounts, 3 years Kawasaki admitting to the issue and providing band aids, but no 650R owner will admit to any real issue, HINT HINT HINT, there is the clue...  Read between the lines and you will find the same vibration issues on the Z1000 and the Yamaha FZ6, but you have to look for the subtle giveaways...

But as a magazine reviewer of the new Ninja 650R stated, the new rubber mound frame is just a band aid and a cheap way of Kawasaki dealing with the reality of the problem. If Kawasaki really want to fix that vibration issue they would revise the engine instead, but that is a much more bigger investment that Kawasaki doesn't want to incur.

If you carefully read the post from Versys's owners, which for 2009 went up on price but did not get a revised frame with engine mounts, people are filling their mirrors with caulk to try stop the vibration and filling the bars with lead to help the numbness on the hands...  But none admits to any issues, but they don't have to, you can tell by what they are doing to their bikes...  You can always trace the issues by the actions taken...

On the other hand the GSX650F is always proudly announced by its owners to have one of the smoothest running engines ever, maybe is because the bike is so heavy that it absorbs all vibes...

[Jeremy Z]

Of the three you mentioned, I'd go with the Suzuki.

Suzuki quality & support is better than Kawasaki's.

The modern Yamaha 600 engines have a reputation for not having any low RPM torque. This is unacceptable.

My choice would be the ABS version of the SV650SF:

http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/SV650/2009/SV650S.aspx

I had an SV650, and I've ridden lots of fours. The 90° V-twin is a superior engine configuration in the 600cc range. More power where you need it. My buddy on his then-new GSX-R750 could not keep up with me in local riding, even with a 30+ hp advantage.

Have you considered the Triumph 675? Those are said to have excellent powerbands too.

[artyboy]

Yes, I agree that there are a lot of left over 650F around and a killer deal could be achieve, BUT...

Suzuki no longer has a contract with HSBC and thus no longer offers the 2 yrs low interest, low payment.

So the good deals on the GSX 650F at this point are for those who can either buy cash or those who are very credit worthy that a regular bank would give them finance.

As bad as customer service HSBC had, but it is the only bank that woud loan to risky people.

My credit is OK at best.  I got this at 7.25% with 0 down through a credit union.  Don't listen to the hype about banks not lending.  They ARE lending and if you buy a new bike this year you get a tax credit.  

Big congrats on the new ride!    May I ask how much off MSRP you managed to get?

$7200 OTD after taxes and everything.  I could've gotten a better deal but I was more worried about the payment than the final price.  

It was said to be cautious about those who just praise the bike and those who just trash the bikes. To carefully read between the lines so you can extract the truth about subtle details that although not highlighted, but such details do show up every time every where...

Ding ding ding!  When it comes to reviews I don't put a lot of stock in what people have to say.  Bike mags get paid by the manufacturers via advertising so they can't piss them off too much with a bad review even if it's deserved.  A lot of people will do whatever they can to justify a purchase to themselves by telling everyone how great it is.  On the other hand there are a lot of people who just look at the specs and think that they know how the bike will perform.  The best thing to do is to test ride all of the bikes that you're interested in.  Just don't expect a 5 mile test ride to expose all of the problems that you might have with the bike over time.  Read all of the reviews that you can and try to read between the lines whenever possible.

On the other hand the GSX650F is always proudly announced by its owners to have one of the smoothest running engines ever, maybe is because the bike is so heavy that it absorbs all vibes...

The weight and the looks are the only two drawbacks that I ever see anyone bring up about this bike.  The looks are totally subjective.  If you don't like the looks then you're not going to be interested in the bike in the first place.  The weight provides just as many positives as it does negatives.  It's a bit of a pig at parking lot speeds but it still handles a lot better than cruisers and bigger sport tourers.  It's very well balanced so once you get moving you don't even notice the weight.  The brakes are sufficient to stop you quickly despite the weight although they're not as powerful as a modern sportbike.  The engine is powerful enough to get you moving all through the rpm range.  It's got plenty of torque to easily pull all of that extra weight and even a large sized rider won't find it lacking.  The top end is great, too.  It just keeps on pulling up until the redline.  The biggest benefit that the weight provides is that the bike is rock solid even in heavy winds.  It stays firmly planted at all times.  It's also not buzzy at all.  I've seen "a 650 just shouldn't be that heavy" so many times it's ridiculous.  I say that it doesn't even feel like a 650 because of the overall size and an engine that feels perfectly matched to it.    

[SVNET]

I took my son today to a horse form to feed carrots to the horses, that was fun for a cool afternoon...

In our way back I stop by the local dealer, empty, non one there so I was able to sit on many different bikes and look around...

like it was stated before, this is a good time to find a good deal on a 2008, the local dealer is packed with 2008.  But the local dealer is so bad they still want above MSRP out the door for the 08's models.

They had a used 2006 FZ6 with 3600mi, the engine looks exactly the same as the one on the new FZ6R.
That gives me the hint that bike is just a repackage of the FZ6 with a cheaper frame and more plastic.


The ZZR, definitely out of my league in terms of comfort and looks.  I had to lean forward as much as I would do on any other super sport bike with clips on. Plus that whole area where the instruments are located could use a cover to hide all the guts and wires that are exposed.  The front fairing doesn't completely cover some part of the frame bars, nothing seems to align right on that bike...

They also had two 2008 GSX 650F and once again I proved to myself that Suzuki has it going on, the GSX 650 F just feels great under me, a perfect match.  I love that purplish blue color, I loved the gas tank style, the bike just feels great, looks great, it gives a great impression.  It might not be as sexy looking as a 650R, but it sure does feels solid built.  It just doesn't look as flick able as the 650R, it is definitely a bike more for the open road then for line splitting during rush hour in a big city.

Another bike that I noticed today which I fell in love with was a 2008 Candy RED FZ1, the 1000cc I4. That is a sweat bike, with a very broad gas tank the way I like it, the built quality feels top notch and the bike felt comfortable with an excellent riding position.  I loved the wide and flat handle bar.  If I had $10K today I would had been riding that FZ1.

I wonder what would be a good OTD price for a new 2008 FZ1 at this time ?  I think MRSP was $9500

Now time for pizza and a movie with my son...  

One thing for sure, now that I don't have a bike I do spend a lot more time with the family...

[Cricket1]

SVnet;

The FZ1 is a great bike, but surely in a different class than the bikes mentioned. Don't be fooled, the Fizzer is a FAST bike. It has an R1 mill, slight de-tuned from the top end for more torque. A friend of mine had an '02, which was the previous generation from the '05, but man, that thing could move. Makes my Sprint ST, feel kinda slow. A FZ like that would prolly run high 10's in the quarter.

If you are looking at the FZ1, you might also consider a Trimph Speed Triple. Hoot of an engine, better looks than the FZ, and more unique. Less dealers tho.

[SVNET]

SVnet;

The FZ1 is a great bike, but surely in a different class than the bikes mentioned. Don't be fooled, the Fizzer is a FAST bike. It has an R1 mill, slight de-tuned from the top end for more torque. A friend of mine had an '02, which was the previous generation from the '05, but man, that thing could move. Makes my Sprint ST, feel kinda slow. A FZ like that would prolly run high 10's in the quarter.

If you are looking at the FZ1, you might also consider a Trimph Speed Triple. Hoot of an engine, better looks than the FZ, and more unique. Less dealers tho.

Well, I have been reading about the FZ1, and from what I have read so far, it seems to be another Buzz engine from Yamaha being affected by the same plage on Seca II and FZ6, and I would not doubt that the FZ6R is also just as buzzier...

People who own the FZ1 are doing different little tricks to insulate the fairing plastic so that it wont buzz...

Vibration on the food pegs also being reported, and also while at IDLE, if you press the font brake, engine vibration will be felt through different parts of the chassis, area around the seat and the handle bars...  

I think it is still a fine bike, specially for only $8000 NEW 2008 left over, but I have dealt with buzz before when I had my Seca II and that was not fun...

I mean, that is the whole perk about having an I4, smooth engine, no buzz, if I want buzz I would get a parallel twin...

So again, probs to Suzuki for creating very smooth, buzz free engines, weather it is the SV Vtwin, unique sound and feel, but very smooth for being a twin and also for the Bandit decendent I4 engines... As on the GSX 650 F.

[Cricket1]

SV-

Yeah, but have you ridden an FZ1??

I didn't find my friends '02 to be buzzy at all, but a very smooth engine. It's been awhile since I rode it, but the only thing remotely close to a buzz was a slight tingle around 6k. So at about 80mph in 6th, you get a little tingle. BFD.

In many ways, the FZ1 engine is smoother than the triple in my Sprint. The Sprint is more "rumbly" than the I-4 in the Yammy.

[Phenix_Rider]

I mean, that is the whole perk about having an I4, smooth engine, no buzz, if I want buzz I would get a parallel twin...

So again, probs to Suzuki for creating very smooth, buzz free engines, weather it is the SV Vtwin, unique sound and feel, but very smooth for being a twin and also for the Bandit decendent I4 engines... As on the GSX 650 F.

Say what?  The P-twin in the 650R is as smooth as most I4s I've ridden.  The SV has some nasty vibrations.  The Rotax in the Tuono is very nice.  Smoothest V-Twin I've ridden.  If you want something perfectly smooth, go buy an electric.

[Hickey]

Vibration is a tough thing to judge as it will vary from bike to bike within a given model.  Why?  Twins especially are sensitive to how well balanced their throttle bodies are, but that is also true for inline engines.  The more out of balance the throttle bodies are, the more vibration there will be.

Also people perceive vibration differently.  Vibration is an imprecise word to begin with.  Some people might term the "feel" of a big sporty twin as character and the "hum" of an inline as numbing.  Some people might find the resonance of a twin's power pulses to be distracting and the relative purr of an inline to be unnoticeable.  Some people want the mirrors and fairings to be vibration free and some might prefer that the handlebars throb gently rather than buzz even if the mirrors shake a little.

[2Pokey]

Face it all bikes have their quirks which you will either love or hate. Pick the one that fits you the best. All will perform extremely well.
Now for my blatent "my bike is best" comment. There seems to be alot of negative talk about low end torque of the FZ6 on the dyno. Dynos are for writers, braggers or highly skilled racers. But in the real world, the FZ6 is faster 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile than the GSX650F, 650R and the SV. While it may not give the feeling that its pulling as hard, in reality it is pulling ...away.

[SVNET]

Face it all bikes have their quirks which you will either love or hate. Pick the one that fits you the best. All will perform extremely well.
Now for my blatent "my bike is best" comment. There seems to be alot of negative talk about low end torque of the FZ6 on the dyno. Dynos are for writers, braggers or highly skilled racers. But in the real world, the FZ6 is faster 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile than the GSX650F, 650R and the SV. While it may not give the feeling that its pulling as hard, in reality it is pulling ...away.

That is so true, while reading at the FZ forums, they regard the Bandits as just insane torque machines with no match...

Owners of the FZ do wish for more torque and tend to drop the front sprokets to either 15 or 16 teeth to make it behave more like SV or in their mind like a Bandit...

It is so funny to see the different in cultures when you hop around different forums...

I do agree that vibrations is a very subjective thing that everybody do perceive in different ways... but...

At the same time, when so many people complaint about it and when the subject can be found just about every where about a particular bike, then that is the river singing to you...

On the other hand, I have never heard or read of a buzzing fairing on an SV bike.  Comfort issues every where...

Compared to how much buzzing it would take to get my old 1998 Seca up to 70mph, it was like a rebelation the first day I rode my new SV650S and I had it up to 95mph for a second with no hesitation, no vibration or buzzing of any kind... I felt like if I had been a bird in a cage of limiations and had just been let loose into the sky...

There is no perffect bike, they all have their thing, these days I am all about comfort more then anything else, that is why fuzzing is an issue as much as riding position...

I am actually very close to get into a Versys if I can settle on a price, right now I have located a 2009 Versys new for $6800 OTD...  I want it to be $6500 OTD... But if you read around, the Verys have its good share of buzzing reputation around 3K RPM as well...

We will see....

[SVNET]

Ohhhh....

Choices, choices... I can't take it....

Here are my 3 choices as of tonight, all brand new bikes...

2009 Versys      $6850 OTD   Green, my favor color, good looking bike...
2008 GSX650F  $6200  OTD   Favorite bike out of the 3, but Black/Gray is not my favor color, sales guy was awesome...
2008 FZ6           $6600 OTD  Blue, another favor color, not so attracted by the bike design...

Versys,      8% for two years with low monthly payment.
GSX650F   Pending credit approval, Interest rate anywhere from 3% to 12%, payment could end up being $150/5yrs.
FZ6           8% for three year with low monthly payment.

If this was you, which should you choose...

[Jeremy Z]

Versys. The long-travel suspension is just brilliant. Once you've ridden a DL650, DL1000, KLR, Triumph Tiger, or other "adventure" bike on some of the same roads you've ridden with a conventional road bike, you will instantly see the advantage.

But do yourself a favor, and arrange financing outside of the dealership. I started my bike loans at the dealer, but quickly changed over to a loan from the local credit union. Saved myself hundreds of dollars.

[SVNET]

SV-

Yeah, but have you ridden an FZ1??

I didn't find my friends '02 to be buzzy at all, but a very smooth engine. It's been awhile since I rode it, but the only thing remotely close to a buzz was a slight tingle around 6k. So at about 80mph in 6th, you get a little tingle. BFD.

In many ways, the FZ1 engine is smoother than the triple in my Sprint. The Sprint is more "rumbly" than the I-4 in the Yammy.

I was just reading someones review of the SC motocycle show that just happened and again found the river singing about the FZ6 and its buzz...

Quote:
I went to the show yesterday. It is about 1 mile from my house. I was able to get three demo rides in. I rode the Versys, FZ6, and Yamaha TMAX. I currently ride a 2001 Honda Shadow ACE 750. I have really been wanting to get either a Versys or a WeeStrom. I really loved the power of the Versys. That thing is fast. It was not quite as comfortable as I had hoped. I am not really used to my legs being that cramped under me, but I guess I would get used to that. The FZ6 was cool but just too buzzy. What really suprised me was the TMAX, that thing is awesome. I had so much fun on that thing and it was super comfortable. I loved being able to move my feet around while riding. It had great wind protection. I also liked the fact that my helmet would fit under the seat.

I am staying aways from Yamaha...  Either Versys or GSX650F for me...

[artyboy]

Well I haven't had a chance to ride the FZ6R yet but I went to a dealer yesterday, sat on that and the FZ6 and talked to one of the salesmen for a while.  I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the buzziness that the FZ6 has would be reduced or gone on the FZ6R because of that steel frame.  It made it noticeably heavier.  If it's anything like the GSX650F then the weight will absorb most of that buzziness and make it feel more planted.  It also feels smaller and lighter (not by much) than the GSX650F and it has a less aggressive riding position.  Unfortunately, the seat is a brick.  Also, the front suspension isn't adjustable (neither is the FZ6's).  The GSX650's is.  The tachs are different on the FZ6 and the FZ6R.  The FZ6R redlines much sooner so I assume that it's because it's tuned down for a lot more low end grunt.  I'd have to ride it to really compare it to the GSX but my impression is that the two bikes would be pretty comparable with the edge on comfort going to the GSX and the edge on looks (imo) going to the FZ6R.  Another thing to keep in mind is that the FZ6R doesn't need to have it's valves adjusted until 24k  .  The GSX needs it done every 14.5k.  I don't know if you have to take anything apart on the FZ6R for routine maintenance but oil and the oil filter on the GSX can be changed without removing anything.  Last year I was looking pretty closely at the Versys but decided that I didn't like it that much.  I'll just go with a V-Strom or a KLR650 if I'm going to go that route.  

If you take your financing options into account I think that I'd lean towards the GSX650F.  I don't like gimmicky financing.  Just remember that if you go with the "low monthly payment for so long" option and you don't pay down the principal or pay off the bike before the payment goes up then you're stuck with a 2-3 year old bike that you still owe the full balance of your loan on.  If you buy new then you can rest assured that if you decide to sell it before it's paid off that you won't get anywhere near what you owe.  At least if you go with a conventional loan you'll be paying it off from the start and you won't take such a big hit or feel like you're stuck with it if you decide you want something different in a year or two.  

[Cricket1]

I was just reading someones review

So, no you haven't actually ridden it. Maybe the guy who rode it has only ever ridden big bore cruisers?? Who knows, what matters is how it feels to you.

Don't forget, the FZ6 is not an FZ1. Maybe the FZ6 is buzzy? Don't know since I have never ridden one.

 

Either Versys or GSX650F for me...

Either bike will make a great choice, but the front end on the Versys If Kawasaki would just change the headlight.

[SVNET]

Well,

The insurance quote is helping my decision as well...

I currently have Geico...

My last bike, 800cc Cruiser, $205/YR

2008 GSX650F $680/YR Quote

2009 Versys $399/YR Quote

I have to shop around for insurance as well, but I think the difference will remain the same...

I am leaning towards the Versys big time...

[Cricket1]

WOW, that's a huge premium for the Suzi! Seems excessive, not like it is a GSXR600.

Definitely shop the insurance, sometimes the rates are ALL over the place.

[artyboy]

WOW, that's a huge premium for the Suzi! Seems excessive, not like it is a GSXR600.

Definitely shop the insurance, sometimes the rates are ALL over the place.

+1 When I bought my GSXF my insurance company quoted me $165 a year because my agent didn't realize that his company considered it a sportbike.  A few days after buying the bike I got a call from him saying that he misquoted me and that it would be $900 a year  .  I shopped around and managed to get it for $300 a year.  

[2Pokey]

I personally think the FZ6 Buzz is blown out of proportion. Does the FZ6 have slight buzz at certain rpm yes. Which RPM Im not sure because its so slight its not even worth checking out. My comparison is with a Honda flat six that is so smooth that sometimes you have to look at the tach to confirm the engine is running.

[SVNET]

+1 When I bought my GSXF my insurance company quoted me $165 a year because my agent didn't realize that his company considered it a sportbike.  A few days after buying the bike I got a call from him saying that he misquoted me and that it would be $900 a year  .  I shopped around and managed to get it for $300 a year.  

Who did you went with ?

[artyboy]

Who did you went with ?

McGraw's.  I hear Dairyland is good, too.  State Farm was within about $50.

[Jeremy Z]

Get a quote from State Farm before you decide on insurance.

I got ridiculous quotes from Geico, Progressive, and Allstate before finally going to State Farm. State Farm goes by engine size. So a 1300cc Harley costs a lot more to insure than a GSX-R750.

Reading the last few posts, buzziness is something to watch for. It is a hard or impossible problem to fix, and has nothing to do with the mass of the bike. It has to do with how buzzy the engine is, and how rigidly mounted it is to the frame.

I had a Concours that was horrible, buzz-wise. It was a massive bike.

I have an FJR now that has probably 1/4 or less the buzz, but is still enough to put my right hand to sleep some times. I haven't done anything to address it yet. I'm hoping heavier bar end weights will help. Yamaha did a much better job of counterbalancing the engine than Kawasaki did with the old Concours, but in their arrogance, they decided they did such a good job that they would just go ahead and rigidly mount it to the frame. The FJR weighs the same or less than the Concours, but buzzes a lot less.  My SV650 (naked) weighed a lot less than either, and buzzed about the same as the FJR.

With regards to SVNET's earlier comments, I could see how the SVS would be a rack. It was a little too forward for my taste too. One either needs longer arms, or to spend a lot of time going fast enough for the wind to be lifting one up. (that would be 80+ I bet)

[SVNET]

Reading the last few posts, buzziness is something to watch for. It is a hard or impossible problem to fix, and has nothing to do with the mass of the bike. It has to do with how buzzy the engine is, and how rigidly mounted it is to the frame.

With regards to SVNET's earlier comments, I could see how the SVS would be a rack. It was a little too forward for my taste too. One either needs longer arms, or to spend a lot of time going fast enough for the wind to be lifting one up. (that would be 80+ I bet)

With regard the buzziness, I totally agree... that is not something to take lightly. If the seat is a problem, get a different seat, if the head light is to dim, buy a different bulb, If the engine is too buzzy, what are you going to do, buy a different engine... Buzz is a difficult issue to deal with and one that is very disturbing specially on longer rides, it takes the joy of the ride away.

With regard the too forward position of sport bikes, I was thinking the same thing when I read that quote about, let the wind lift you up... I am glad someone else picked up on that too...  To me, it is a mental distress if I have to always be thinking of hold my self up with my upper body mussles, and seat like this and seat like that, that takes the joy out of riding in my opinion... Just buy a bike that fits you better and ride in comfort...

I think a bike like the GSX650F has just enough performance for the streets, to break the law and give you good amount of adrenaline, it has enough good looks to be a sexy bike and it has enough comfort to make the ride enjoyable, if you are not doing track days every day I really not see the need for the punishment of a super sport riding position and being lift up by the wind...

[Nodaclu]

I think a bike like the GSX650F has just enough performance for the streets, to break the law and give you good amount of adrenaline, it has enough good looks to be a sexy bike and it has enough comfort to make the ride enjoyable, if you are not doing track days every day I really not see the need for the punishment of a super sport riding position and being lift up by the wind...

+1

Couldn't have said it better myself. You pretty much described my 650F exactly.

[SVNET]

+1
Couldn't have said it better myself. You pretty much described my 650F exactly.

JEJEJEJE and I don't even own one yet, but I am this close to do so, but the Versys is putting a good competition in my book...

I think Suzuki is going to have to start paying me for all the good kind words I put on their way...

I thought I was going to be riding this weekend, but I just got signed on to a two weekend crash course by my company in order to get my insurance adjuster lic...

This will be insane, Fri and Sat 8AM to 7PM straight...  

Most dealers around here close on Sundays and during the week by the time I get out of work the dealers are closed so it won't be for another two weeks before I can make it to a dealer...

[artyboy]

I'd pick the Versys before I pick the 650r any day of the week.  I've said it before and I'll say it again...the 650r is just ugly.  It looks like a cheap, sportbike wannabe.  At least the GSX650F looks every bit as sexy as it's GSXR counterparts.  The Versys looks different from most anything else on the street.  I'd still keep my GSX650F before getting a Versys.  

[Hickey]

I think all three are good looking, but setting aside the subjective stuff for a second.  The two Kawasakis have substantially less alternator output than the GSX650F.  If someone doesn't use heated gear or only uses a vest, then this is probably a non issue.  I need around 100 extra watts of power in order to run my heated jacket liner with gloves and the GSX650F can do that.

[SVNET]

I think all three are good looking, but setting aside the subjective stuff for a second.  The two Kawasakis have substantially less alternator output than the GSX650F.  If someone doesn't use heated gear or only uses a vest, then this is probably a non issue.  I need around 100 extra watts of power in order to run my heated jacket liner with gloves and the GSX650F can do that.

Yet, another proof of the cheap concept introduced by Kawasaki and unfortunatelly followed by FZ6R and Gladius.

Suzuki did not cut any corners when it came to the 650F, that is a solid bike in all aspect.

I do agree with the previous quote as the generation 1 of 650R just looking like a cheap product, SS want to be...

But this weekend I saw in person the new 2009 650R and I must say the bike has a new filling to it, looks better.

I would not mind owning a new 2009 ER6N, that bike will be a hot cookie for this year...

At this point I think I am just going to pick me up a Ninja 500R for now, just to commute to work...

Even the Versy has high insurance cost these days, I refuse to pay $950/YR in insurance for the 650F.

Insurance company just don't like the 650F, it is rated as a full flesh sport bike and collition coverage is insane.

I just got my new policy renewal today from Geico.

2007 C50 800cc cruiser $210 / Yr.

2009 Versys $399 / Yr with same coverage I have now for the C50.

2008 650R  $289 / YR, with same coverage.

2008 GSX 650F, $950 / YR, with same coverage I have now, Insane, I refuse to do it...

2009 Ninja 500R, $255 / YR, that I like so and I think I will go with it...

I really have no need for a powerfull bike, all I do is commute to work on country roads, so the 500R...

[Rincewind]

I think all three are good looking, but setting aside the subjective stuff for a second.  The two Kawasakis have substantially less alternator output than the GSX650F.  If someone doesn't use heated gear or only uses a vest, then this is probably a non issue.  I need around 100 extra watts of power in order to run my heated jacket liner with gloves and the GSX650F can do that.

Do you have specific figures for these bikes?  I'm just curious, I have a soft spot for the ER6N, which probably has the same spec.

[Hickey]

Do you have specific figures for these bikes?  I'm just curious, I have a soft spot for the ER6N, which probably has the same spec.

I don't have exact figures, no.  But I have some estimates based on what I've read online.  The Kawasakis all have around 335 total watts.  The Suzuki is more than 400 watts total.  My understanding is that the Suzuki ends up with more than 100 surplus watts.

I've got a service manual ordered for my bike and I'll look up the specs when I can.  It isn't in the owners manual.

[Sarchi]

Yep, not just the engine, either. The FZ6 has 4 pot monoblock calipers, 43mm forks and a cast aluminum frame. The 'new' FZ6R has 2 pot calipers, 41mm forks and a steel tube frame.

I do like the seat/tail section of the 6R, but everything else seems like a step down from the FZ6.

I agree, it seems like they've focused all the attention on cosmetics.  I had a 2005 FZ6S, good bike and the motor is decent enough (2003 R6 more or less, but different throttle bodies and cam profile).  I think all these middleweight bikes are fine choices, if it was me in 2009 I'd probably go for the GSX or the Versys.  Yamaha quality is nice, but Suzuki and Kawi aren't far behind and they seem to be catching up, at least on fit and finish.

[bugeyed]

Something seems fishy on that insurance price quote. I have Geico and my GSX650F is less than $300 yr. About the same as my 1200cc Beemer.

[Nodaclu]

Something seems fishy on that insurance price quote. I have Geico and my GSX650F is less than $300 yr. About the same as my 1200cc Beemer.

When did you get your policy?

I have Geico for my cars. I bought my 650F in July 2008, and when I called Geico to add the bike, I was quoted $962/year. My Harley through them (full coverage) had been $244/year.

I'm hoping you bought your policy recently, because I had to go with a fly-by-night outfit to get the policy under $400, and I would really like to go back to Geico if they've now adjusted their rates for the 650F and no longer consider it a "sportbike" as they did last summer.

EDIT: Just ran my quote again through Geico. Better, but still high - $692/year. This is full coverage with $1,000 deductibles on Comp and Collision, and with an MSF discount. The Collision is what is driving the price up - all the plastic would be my guess.

And Progressive was $1,454/year. WTF?!? I have no accidents - ever.

[Jeremy Z]

SVNET, you were smart to get quotes before buying.

Now be smarter, and get quotes from other companies too. Start with State Farm.

Ninja 500s have a reputation for being very comfortable too. Hell, you don't even need to qualify it by saying it is just for commuting. They're good solid bikes. I'm kind of surprised Geico didn't put the "Ninja Tax" on that one too.

[SVNET]

When did you get your policy?

I have Geico for my cars. I bought my 650F in July 2008, and when I called Geico to add the bike, I was quoted $962/year. My Harley through them (full coverage) had been $244/year.

I'm hoping you bought your policy recently, because I had to go with a fly-by-night outfit to get the policy under $400, and I would really like to go back to Geico if they've now adjusted their rates for the 650F and no longer consider it a "sportbike" as they did last summer.

EDIT: Just ran my quote again through Geico. Better, but still high - $692/year. This is full coverage with $1,000 deductibles on Comp and Collision, and with an MSF discount. The Collision is what is driving the price up - all the plastic would be my guess.

And Progressive was $1,454/year. WTF?!? I have no accidents - ever.

SVNET, you were smart to get quotes before buying.

Now be smarter, and get quotes from other companies too. Start with State Farm.

Ninja 500s have a reputation for being very comfortable too. Hell, you don't even need to qualify it by saying it is just for commuting. They're good solid bikes. I'm kind of surprised Geico didn't put the "Ninja Tax" on that one too.

I would like to own a nice machine like the 650F and pay for what it is worth, but I refuse to give money away on insurance so if that is how it is going to be, I refuse it own one...

So far I have gotten quotes from 3 different companies, I still have to try State Farm, but so far it has been very consistent with regard the 650F, very high collision premiums.  This bike is being rated as a Katana and it appears as the Katana has an ugly collision history.

I also got a quote for the Yamaha FZ6, that one is also up there, $984/YR and the new FZ6R $1225/YR.
That makes no sense because the FZ6 is more expensive bike and more racy prompt, but the new bike has the " R " on the name so it gets an automatic $300 insurance increase...

I will call state farm tomorrow and will report back...

[Nodaclu]

For what it's worth, I'm paying $342/year through E-surance. But they farm the policy out. I'll have to look and see who the policy is actually written through, but it's no one I'd ever heard of, and my wife is a work comp claims adjuster, so I thought I knew 'em all.  

[SVNET]

For what it's worth, I'm paying $342/year through E-surance. But they farm the policy out. I'll have to look and see who the policy is actually written through, but it's no one I'd ever heard of, and my wife is a work comp claims adjuster, so I thought I knew 'em all.  

I just wonder how would that work, if you every got into an accident, who would you call...

How would they respond or would you be out on your own and putting up with a bunch of bull...

I will check them out though...  I wish to stay with geico since I have been with them for so long...

[chimera]

Dang, these insurance quotes are high.  I went and sat on FZ-6 and the 650F two days ago.  Really like them both.  No 650r's in stock  

2009 FZ-6           $7,295.-
2008GSX650F       $5,999.-


That $1,300 dollar difference buys a few years insurance........


OR just keep my 1998 Seca 600 and pay the $117.- per year insurance bill(collision only).

Hmmmm....

[SVNET]

Dang, these insurance quotes are high.  I went and sat on FZ-6 and the 650F two days ago.  Really like them both.  No 650r's in stock  

2009 FZ-6           $7,295.-
2008GSX650F       $5,999.-


That $1,300 dollar difference buys a few years insurance........


OR just keep my 1998 Seca 600 and pay the $117.- per year insurance bill(collision only).

Hmmmm....

I would say keep your Seca and stay debt free... I once owned a 1998 Seca II and those are great bikes...

I did the E-insurance quote thing, it turned me over to progressive which gave me $776 quote on a 2008 GSX650F.

Still way to high...  I like $400 / YR or less...

[bugeyed]

When did you get your policy?

I have Geico for my cars. I bought my 650F in July 2008, and when I called Geico to add the bike, I was quoted $962/year. My Harley through them (full coverage) had been $244/year.

I'm hoping you bought your policy recently, because I had to go with a fly-by-night outfit to get the policy under $400, and I would really like to go back to Geico if they've now adjusted their rates for the 650F and no longer consider it a "sportbike" as they did last summer.

EDIT: Just ran my quote again through Geico. Better, but still high - $692/year. This is full coverage with $1,000 deductibles on Comp and Collision, and with an MSF discount. The Collision is what is driving the price up - all the plastic would be my guess.

And Progressive was $1,454/year. WTF?!? I have no accidents - ever.

I got my policy in November. Maybe the state you live in is the difference, I dunno.

[bugeyed]

OK, I must apologize, all this talk got me to wondering so I dug out the policy. $491 is my yearly premium on the GSX. Still way better than what you guys have been quoted from GEICO. Sorry about that. The big difference between it and my Beemer is collision. I guess they plan on the bike being totaled with any kind of incident. The Beemer is bigger displacement, more expensive to fix, and likely to be totaled due to all the plastic on it. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Jeremy Z]

As a point of reference, State Farm rates bikes by displacement.

My 2005 FJR costs $491 per year.

My 2007 Burgman (400) is $208 per year.

I'm 32, married, good driving record. Those are both full coverage quotes.

Curious what the State Farm quotes come back as...

[Nodaclu]

As a point of reference, State Farm rates bikes by displacement.

My 2005 FJR costs $491 per year.

My 2007 Burgman (400) is $208 per year.

I'm 32, married, good driving record. Those are both full coverage quotes.

Curious what the State Farm quotes come back as...

Looks like I have to talk to an actual human at State Farm instead of getting an online quote.

Thanks for the info Jeremy. I'm moving in 90 days from NV to CA, so I'm not sure calling in for a quote will do me much good until then. But I'll keep this in mind and give them a call as soon as I have a CA address to give.  

[tomla]

All nice bikes, but I gotta go with the Versys.

[SVNET]

As a point of reference, State Farm rates bikes by displacement.

My 2005 FJR costs $491 per year.

My 2007 Burgman (400) is $208 per year.

I'm 32, married, good driving record. Those are both full coverage quotes.

Curious what the State Farm quotes come back as...

I have not pull the trigger on anything yet because too many factors involved.

I just got a quote with State Farm and I like it...

The deal with State Farm is that they just pulled out all their HO line out of FL and with that they are loosing a lot of their customers who also had HO/Auto packages so they are hurting for business now, got to get them while they are down...

If I move all my personal Auto (cars) with them, which I will, I get their better rate on the bike.

2008 Suzuki GSX650F  $183 / 6mo or $366 per year.
2009 Kawasaki Versys  $186 / 6mo or $372 per year.
2009 Kawasaki 500R    $174 / 6mo or $348 per year.  This one makes no sense...

Given the above numbers I can make the following conclusions...  I am lost.
I am all confused when it come to insurance and State Farms seems to be on their on league...

I guess with State Farm I no longer have to limit myself to a 500cc but I can get any of the 3 bikes,
which ever I like best because they are all being rated just about the same...
I am also 32, Married with a just OKAY record, not bad, but not a clean driving record.

At this point everyone is to make their own conclusion...  I am choosing State Farm.

I called Geico again to confirm the quote on the Versys, guess what... Magically desaperance...
The lady I talk to today advised there are no records of any of my last week quotes.
She requoted the bikes for me, both Versys and 500R rate the same at $540/YR.

The lady advised that the 500R is a very popular bike that attracks a lot of inexperience riders and also have a very high ratio of theft, they get stolen a lot and have a high rate of accidents. Now win there...

I guess I am scratching the 500R and Geico all together...  The best choice will be Versys/State Farm

[Zerosum]

Yeah, just don't make a claim against them.  State Farm adjusters are reknown in the industry for being collosal pricks.  

I was hit by a woman who was insured with them... they're snakes.

[SVNET]

Yeah, just don't make a claim against them.  State Farm adjusters are reknown in the industry for being collosal pricks.  

I was hit by a woman who was insured with them... they're snakes.

What I have to say to that is, they are all the same, they are all evil, just pray that nothing goes wrong...

3yrs ego I had a bike wreck.
Per the dealer, my bike was total, it had major frame damage.
Brand new bike with only 500mi, Dealer said it would be cheaper to buy new then to repair.
Geico adjuster was a snake as well, he refused to total the bike or pay for shop repairs.
I had to hire an attorney to get Geico to pay the repair shop, so that they would release the bike.
The bike never ran straight after that, it always pulled to the right, Frame in fact was twisted.
The whole thing was a complete mess between the shop trying to milk and Geico not wanting to pay.
The best insurance you can have is, do not get into any wrecks...  That is full proof coverage.

The only thing that makes it or breaks it for me, is customer service.
If you quote me a rate yesterday, don't tell me today that you can't find no record of it on your system.

After the experience I had with State Farm today, I am sold, not only for the lower rates, but because the way I was treated and all their efforts into earning my business...

I just got the quote back for all my Autos, I will be saving $280/YR with all matched coverages, plus I am getting the discounted rate for the bike. 10/20/10 LIB, UM, $500 DED Comp and Collision.

[artyboy]

I've heard some great things from State Farm.  All of those recommendations came from motorcyclists.  They were just a little high for me to go with them, though when I was shopping but I'm probably going to give them another shot with all of my cars and everything else included.

[FlashZer]

If I was to go down in displacement I'd aswell absolutely wish to go down in weight, so that would advance me appear the 650R. The administration aswell seems nicer, and the all atramentous looks VERY nice. And account is cheaper. Just seems like a bigger buy.



_________________
Led flashlight

[dankatz]

Anybody read BiKE October, 2009 comparison between the FZ6R, GSX650F and Ninja 650? (who cares about the Mana GT) curious who won...

[Fourstring]

Yeah, just don't make a claim against them.  State Farm adjusters are reknown in the industry for being collosal pricks.  

I am certainly finding that out.  

A data point for prospective buyers to consider-  Result of a 50mph lowside on a 650r?  No damage to frame, engine, forks, and ten minutes of work to the transmission.  These bikes feel cheap when you first sit on them, but they're stout as hell.

Total cost to replace fairing, frame & axle sliders, windshield, etc is about $1500.

[pamfs1]

Hello everyone!

I justed wanted to say that I have bought Suzuki GSX 650F (2008 model) as my first bike! Partially thanks to this forum thread

I actually got my education on Ninja 600R, but i find it quite nervious and very light weighted...

Suzuki, is very balanced, very stable, i feel very safe having the weight under me It is very calm, i am able to release the gas without any problems and keep going... i am actually used to keeping my right hand free more than the left one - cougld't do that with Ninja.
GSX650F is yet quite powerful, it was always able to get me going fast! Aceleration is a blast ! and i am still running within the first 1000km, so i can't go up in to the high revs...but i must say, this bike forgives you the wrong gears, and i am able to drive on 4-5th gear about 40 km/h without realizing it...

it may be a little bit heavy for newcommers, or short people...but it has really grown on me...I have stoped feeling it after about 100 km. It was heavy on the feet though, at the first week. But i did manage to do the figure of 8 and etc for the driving exam on kawasaki 600R without anyproblems on the first go after driving Suzuki...

Sure GSX650F is not very agile, but on the motorway it is extremely pleasent to drive, and even in the city it takes the curves great!  it is just not light enough for traffic madness...but maybe, it's just me not being skilled enough.

Breaks are great, and the engine aids a lot in stopping power. Plus you feel almost no vibrations from the engine.

in total - GREAT bike, i love it. I actually bought it without ever trying it...and i was pleasently surprised!

The funny thing is: At first my driving instructed said it was a bad idea getting a big bike as the first...he said it is too clumsy, too big for the city...so i gave him to try it for 30 minutes in the city traffic. And he told me that when i decide to sell it in the future...i should talk to him Haha ha He was very impressed with it too...

And just if you are interested ...why km and all...I am Russian, and I live and drive in Italy

PS: i was considering Yamaha too...but i saw a FZ6R crashed on the day i was getting a motocycle...and i thought it was a bad sign...

PSS: GSX650F is not a common bike...which means that it is less likely to be stolen. Cause here a lot of motorbikes are stolen and then sold for parts at the black market...especially this is common for popular models....

I will be glad if someone finds my comments usefull.- oh...GSX650F also has a fuel and gear gauge...very useful to me

[bogdani0405]

Hi all,

I'm a rider from Romania, and yes we speak English and write in this language also. That being said, I want to tell you that I'm leaning towards the GSX650F becaue I think this bike manages the town traffic and the long rides also. I'm more of a practical guy and I think this bike has the corect price/performance/quality ratio. I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner, try a smaller engine for the start. I started with my '96 Suzuki RF 400, a great bike for a beginner.

I can recommend for whoever wants a new bike, but not to a beginner, the SV650SF, a very nice bike. My brother has one and he likes it very much, good MPG(or Litres/100Km in the European system), I have some friends with Ducati Monster who are jealous on the SV's mileage, and now with the crisis and the big prices for gas, we are paying 1,33 dollars/litre(that means ~5,05$/gallon) in a country where minimum wage is around 180$, the less a bike drinks more Km(or miles) we ride.

Best weather

[pamfs1]

Hi all,

I'm a rider from Romania, and yes we speak English and write in this language also. That being said, I want to tell you that I'm leaning towards the GSX650F becaue I think this bike manages the town traffic and the long rides also. I'm more of a practical guy and I think this bike has the corect price/performance/quality ratio. I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner, try a smaller engine for the start. I started with my '96 Suzuki RF 400, a great bike for a beginner.

I can recommend for whoever wants a new bike, but not to a beginner, the SV650SF, a very nice bike. My brother has one and he likes it very much, good MPG(or Litres/100Km in the European system), I have some friends with Ducati Monster who are jealous on the SV's mileage, and now with the crisis and the big prices for gas, we are paying 1,33 dollars/litre(that means ~5,05$/gallon) in a country where minimum wage is around 180$, the less a bike drinks more Km(or miles) we ride.

Best weather

I must say thet having it as the first bike never brought me trouble, i actually love the extra weight, as it makes me feel more secured... the only time i droped it, was when i had all the bags packed with 40kg of extra weight and with a full tank...and it was my own falt, i forgot about the extra weight on it and had my legs relaxed.

The drop didn't do any damage at all actually, as the lights popped inside the fairing, which was designed to do so by the enginers. (the indicator lights have a rubber mount that holds them in place, with extra presure they pop inside, and can be easily restored to the original position with a screwdriver).

PS: I was able to lift it up on my own! and quite quickly as well. Just lifted it up on one side and pushed as much as i could. Was ready to go in 5 minutes. (i still had to take off all the bags though, but it didn't take long)

[gwrx64]

Great info shared on these bikes.

I currently have a 2004 GS500F and a 2007 SV650N.  I really like the handling of the GS since it is very communicative and relaxing to ride even in the twistys of N. GA mountains.  The SV is obviously much faster, quicker, and newer electronics, but the handling is terrible.  I feel like I'm riding a knife's edge and any turn/curve requires full attention and constant corrections.  When I'm done riding it, my mind is more tired than my muscles.

Of the three bikes in the poll, I've only riden the FZ6R and that was a demo at Road Atlanta so real world experience is none.  I can say that it was a refined bike but lacking in the power departement.  My top speed in the back straight was 113mph and then the engine's rev limiter prevented higher speed.  Again, riding it all out on the track, I dont know what it would be like in stop-n-go or just touring.

Can anyone make a comparison of one of the poll bikes to the GS500F?  I'm 6' 180lbs. and can flat foot most bikes I've sat on.  If I can find the characteristics of the GS only with more power, FI, and better gauges (read as gas gauge or light ), I think I will have found nirvana.  Based on this thread, I'm hoping the GSX is the answer.

[dankatz]

European Bike magazine compared the three and the Aprilia Shiver GT. The Shiver GT won, but is much more expensive and is much less reliable. The Ninja 650 (the new 2009 model) was dead last. The GSX and the FZ6R ties each with their own strengths. Yamaha's quality suspension and better fuel economy vs the Suzuki's larger and more powerful engine. Yamaha atad more flickable, but Suzuki is better for gobbling miles.  Each bike would suit different people. I think the newer Ninja is a big improvement both in vibration damping and in instrumentation. Still, I would probably get the Suzuki for its wonderful engine/transmission. Currently I ride an FZ6S2 which I really like. Much more powerful, but needs to be revved compared to the others.
As for your comments, best suspension is on the Yamaha, but you would need to rev it. The GS650F has better suspension than tha SV and newer SVF. I don't think you would be disappointed in the GSX650F unless you are looking for a much racier bike. In that case i would recommend the GSXR750.

[wolf46]

European Bike magazine compared the three and the Aprilia Shiver GT. The Shiver GT won, but is much more expensive and is much less reliable. The Ninja 650 (the new 2009 model) was dead last. The GSX and the FZ6R ties each with their own strengths. Yamaha's quality suspension and better fuel economy vs the Suzuki's larger and more powerful engine. Yamaha atad more flickable, but Suzuki is better for gobbling miles.  Each bike would suit different people. I think the newer Ninja is a big improvement both in vibration damping and in instrumentation. Still, I would probably get the Suzuki for its wonderful engine/transmission. Currently I ride an FZ6S2 which I really like. Much more powerful, but needs to be revved compared to the others.
As for your comments, best suspension is on the Yamaha, but you would need to rev it. The GS650F has better suspension than tha SV and newer SVF. I don't think you would be disappointed in the GSX650F unless you are looking for a much racier bike. In that case i would recommend the GSXR750.

Yes the FZ6 that you have needs more revving to start from stop but the FZ6R doesn't, much lower torque band. The GSX650F for highway miles does seem more comfortable and lower revs but for 2 lane blacktop for hours on end the FZ6R is comfortable AND fun.  

[dankatz]

Yeah, I read that the FZ6R has 20% more power at 6k rpm than my FZ6S2 which is very difficult for me to believe (how can you chop off 20hp and still get 20% more power at 6k rpm!). I would be very curious to ride the FZ6R at some point. I also hear tha transmisison and clutch engagement is a little smoother.

[wolf46]

Transmission little better than last bike (VTX1300) but the clutch is butter smooth and lightest pull I've ever used.

[mescol]

My precious

[aTahmission]

I think the FZ6 would be my choice, though I believe the fact it's engine is essentially a detuned/retuned R6 mill, it's perhaps not the ideal choice for someone who's looking for his or her entry into the wonderful world of sport touring.  I think the "R" is likely built to fit that niche, as I assume the standard FZ6 has a peaky powerband and enough umpf to get an inexperienced rider into trouble.

[knolltop314]

My precious

Hehhhhhhhh Mescol, fancy seeing you here!
And that's one sweeeeeet lookin bike you have there.

[Crackedpot]

My precious

Wow! Suzuki needs to sell a black one like this!

[mikeswitzer12]

Okay let me break it down:
I currently own the 650f and the 650r 2009's, here is my opinion on which bike is better.

A friend and I raced on the drag strip 100 yard dash and a circle track. I used the 650f first and he used my 650r, i beat him with the 650f on both of the races. Then we switched and i rode the 650r and he rode the 650f, he ended up smashing on me with the 650f! on both Tracks.....

Conclusion: The 650f is all around a better bike, the engine is basically bulletproof. I keep reading that people say it is heavy..... when your riding it you cant tell the different between both of the bike's weight.
The 650f has more torque and power, plus your gonna smash on the 650r in the long run because the 650f is a 4cyclinder while the 650r is only a twin. You got to realize both these bikes ARE NOT track bikes!!! they are sport/touring. If you want a track bike then get a gsx-r600 or a zx6r.

FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE WEIGHT- if you plan on taking the bike on the freeway your gonna want more weight so your don't get blown around like a feather! try taking a light bike on the freeway and you'll know what i'm talking about. my 2cents  

[See red]

I had a hard time deciidiing between the gsx-f and the 650r, I test rode both extensively. I mean EXTENSIVELY! like a for an entire weekend for each one. ( my buddy owns a dealer) I then road my friends FZ6R. That was it.... power is right between them, weight is dead nuts in the middle. It pulls good all around, I like the feel, it tracks the curves without fan fair, it is just plain smooth.


I do like the gsx, but I do a lot of low speed in town driving, as well as highway for road trips.


Picture this as a smaller version of an FJR.

[Jay S.]

I had a hard time deciidiing between the gsx-f and the 650r, I test rode both extensively. I mean EXTENSIVELY! like a for an entire weekend for each one. ( my buddy owns a dealer) I then road my friends FZ6R. That was it.... power is right between them, weight is dead nuts in the middle. It pulls good all around, I like the feel, it tracks the curves without fan fair, it is just plain smooth.


I do like the gsx, but I do a lot of low speed in town driving, as well as highway for road trips.


Picture this as a smaller version of an FJR.

 

My sentiments exactly. I had the luxury of riding all three and the FZ6R was the clear winner for me. GSX650F next and 650R last. Just this man's humble opinion.

[jfusaro]

torque and touring the GSXF

[02Tac]

For use as an all-around bike I would opt for the baby Bandit.  Then again, I am biased as I have the Bigger Bandit.  

[See red]

This is my Fz6r, 7500 on her in this summer, I have had it out on maybe 5 good trips this year.



I liked it best since the gsx_f is gone, and it does an admirable job on expressways. I think for me the slightly moore weight, and the slightly better highway feel is what nudged out the 650r.