Electric Motorcycles - what do you want to know?

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I have the opportunity to meet with the owner of Electric Motorsports and to do a test ride. I will be riding something like the photo attached and really want to make sure that I cover all of the bases while I'm there. So I ask you, my STN friends: what do you want to know? What questions would you like answered?

Some information can be found on their website, of course, such as horsepower and charge times. But what's missing?

[Bodhi]

I'd really like to get an electric bike for commuting. My round-trip is a little over 50 miles, so a single charge won't make the round trip. Is the holy grail for electrics 100 miles on a charge? If I could lay out a flexible charging panel on the seat while I'm in the office (and assuming it wouldn't be stolen) and if that could fully charge the bike (assuming eight hours of sunlight), then I'd be seriously thinking about it. I'm in the process of setting up a PV solar power rig in my backyard and would love to have (virtually) free transportation.

[Black Ice]

I have the opportunity to meet with the owner of Electric Motorsports and to do a test ride. I will be riding something like the photo attached and really want to make sure that I cover all of the bases while I'm there. So I ask you, my STN friends: what do you want to know? What questions would you like answered?

Some information can be found on their website, of course, such as horsepower and charge times. But what's missing?

Performance info.  Detailed specs on 0-60, 60-0, top speed, handling and 'seat of the pants' fun factor.

[SuperHans]

I'm not trying to be rude, but I have zero interest in electric bikes. What I would like to know is how do they plan on getting guys like me to ride bikes like that?

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I'm not trying to be rude, but I have zero interest in electric bikes. What I would like to know is how do they plan on getting guys like me to ride bikes like that?

Not rude at all. Obviously there are bikes for different riding styles and you may just not have one that would work with an electric bike. But here's a question for you: what is it about electric bikes that don't interest you? Are you assuming performance drops? Don't like the mileage limitations? If they know what you don't like, then they have something to work towards achieving  

[M.Brane]

 Cost of ownership vs. a comparable gasoline powered bike.

[Scoop]

Just give us your riding impressions.  That's enough for me!

[et]

What routine maintenance is different on an electric motorcycle ?
How long do the batteries last AND how much does it cost to replace them ?

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Good replies guys! Thanks and keep them coming!  

I'm going to call them tomorrow to set up a time to meet, hopefully this week.  

[JamminJere]

What voltage do they run at? 36V 48V? How many batteries in series? I'm assuming that alot of the weight is the batteries and motor.

Does the motor charge the batteries on deceleration like some of the hybrids?

What is the weight of the one that you're going to test ride?

What is the range of the bike. How do they fare in hilly terrain? Mountainous terrain?

Does riding an electric motorycle make you feel sexy?  (Oh wait.. strike that question)

I've heard some electric motors fitted to motorcycles can do over 100mph... and accelerate very quickly..

If they can make one that goes 300 miles a day with luggage, and charges overnight while I do.. I could be swayed to try one..

Jerry

[Rockin SV]

I have to say that I believe the limitations are the biggest turn off. I have a 50 mile a day commute and that would appear to be on the outer limits. Plus its not like you could take this thing across country. I think thats what is going to make a change to another form of power very tough. The bikes aren't bad looking though, but I just don't see them as being practical. Plus I really like the sounds of certain gasoline powered engines

[Mydlyfkryzis]

I'd really like to get an electric bike for commuting. My round-trip is a little over 50 miles, so a single charge won't make the round trip. Is the holy grail for electrics 100 miles on a charge? If I could lay out a flexible charging panel on the seat while I'm in the office (and assuming it wouldn't be stolen) and if that could fully charge the bike (assuming eight hours of sunlight), then I'd be seriously thinking about it. I'm in the process of setting up a PV solar power rig in my backyard and would love to have (virtually) free transportation.

From the Website:

A zero emissions street legal Electric Motorcycle for light commuters and motorcycle enthusiast alike. The 14.2 kilowatt electric drive system and Hi-Power Lithium batteries allow this light weight electric motorcycle to briskly accelerate to freeway speeds.

14.2 KW Motor.
A really good solar cell can put out 1000 watts per square meter on a bright, cloudless day.

the bike has about a 60 mile range, 30 miles at high speed.

So using everything for your 50 mile commute, you will need about 14.2 hours to replenish it with a 1 kw solar cell. Of course, you can half that time with a 2 square meter cell.

So 2 square meter panel, plus the charger, you can recharge your electric bike in only 7.1 hours. Unless it is cloudy, raining or otherwise.

DD, here's a question.... What kind of outlet do you need for the charger (The high speed and built in)? 110V at what Amps? I doubt you can easily find over a 20 amps socket, with 10 and 15 amp sockets being the common ones.

[Snowbird]

 

Ask 'em who proof reads their web page:

Electric Vehicles us NO gas

Seriously, ask them if they are aware of and pushing for a law like Ontario passed wherein some electric vehicles are exempt from licensing and insurance requirements if the vehicles meet certain stipulations: 20 mph top speed, can be pedaled if necessary, bike helmet worn by rider, 60 mile max range, IIRC. The law is supposed to stimulate sales of city transportation.

[ride+dive]

"the bike has about a 60 mile range, 30 miles at high speed"

With a range like that I have to ask: what is there market?  Are they marketing this as a motorcycle or as a scooter?

Do they have any plans to give this bike a greater range, say 200miles btwn charges?  

[DogBoy]

What about an off-road version?

Wouldn't need as much range or weight to push around and would solve a lot of noise complaints (not that the noise bothers me).

[M.Brane]

What about an off-road version?

Wouldn't need as much range or weight to push around and would solve a lot of noise complaints (not that the noise bothers me).

 Fit some knobbies on this, and you're good to go.

[ctbandit]

Why would anyone buy one vs a ninja 250 or similar high mileage bike? You can get nearly 70mpg with those and go from here to anywhere at any time because of availability of fuel. I read 50miles as their limit in distance, which stinks.

there "speed charger" of 1.5hrs is optional? This HAS to come standard. 4 hours for a charge is ridiculous. You could barely charge it before lunch.

MSRP 8K? What's the appeal? Zero emissions? how about the chemical waste from the batteries needed to power these. Or the likelihood that the electricity created to charge it will come from coal energy.

Way way too many draw backs. But I suppose for those with that much disposable income and a hard on for no emissions this would be appealing?  

[Scoop]

Why would anyone buy one vs a ninja 250 or similar high mileage bike? You can get nearly 70mpg with those and go from here to anywhere at any time because of availability of fuel. I read 50miles as their limit in distance, which stinks.

there "speed charger" of 1.5hrs is optional? This HAS to come standard. 4 hours for a charge is ridiculous. You could barely charge it before lunch.

MSRP 8K? What's the appeal? Zero emissions? how about the chemical waste from the batteries needed to power these. Or the likelihood that the electricity created to charge it will come from coal energy.

Way way too many draw backs. But I suppose for those with that much disposable income and a hard on for no emissions this would be appealing?  

I'd buy one.  I have a hard on.

[Brad1445]

I'm not trying to be rude, but I have zero interest in electric bikes. What I would like to know is how do they plan on getting guys like me to ride bikes like that?

+1

[Hardware]

I can't access the linked site through the work firewall so I apologize if my questions are already addressed there.

1.  Is the motor mounted traditionally in the centre of the bike with a drive system (i.e. belt or chain drive) powering the rear wheel, or is the motor mounted in the rear hub (I can't tell from the pic)?

2.  Electric motors traditionally make a lot of torque for a given amount of hp - how is this regulated so that the rider can accelerate smoothly, avoiding the electric switch phenomenon?  Is the "throttle" in the right handgrip essentially a rheostat or potentiometer?

3.  How is this bike affected by heavy rains and moisture?

4.  How much affect will light operation including use of highbeams and signal lights have on a given charge?

5.  Is the company instituting a recycling program for their batteries?  What's the projected life span for the batteries?

[HipGnosis]

I'm not trying to be rude, but I have zero interest in electric bikes. What I would like to know is how do they plan on getting guys like me to ride bikes like that?

I have almost no interest in an electric bike like this, but...
I can clearly see that bikes like this HAVE to be made, sold and real-world tested for them to evolve into an electric bike I might/would be interested in.
I applaud their decision to make the quick-charger an option.  Why make everyone pay for it if they don't all need/want it?  But I do want to know if the quick-charger gets added to the bike or will users need to carry it to/from work (etc.)?
I second the Qs about battery life, cost of their replacement and their recycleability (preferably thru the dealer).
I like the idea of a solar charger.  Every little bit helps. How hard will it be to get the power to the battery?  How many square meters is the top of a trunk?
Could you put a cpl extra batts in saddle bags to extend the range?  Or is 'the battery' integrated somehow with the charger and/or power controller?
How good (ie. realistic) is the power 'guage'?  Not that my fuel guage is all that precise, but I can easily see/decipher how full/empty my gas tank is.
Is there anything like a reserve switch?

[B-rent]

Excellent DantesDame thanks for asking of our input on this!  

I'm very interested in this and can't wait for batteries to be capable of handling our riding requirements.

I'd like to reiterate ride+dive's question of "Do they have any plans to give this bike a greater range, say 200 miles btwn charges?" The limit of 60 miles/30 miles high speed just isn't doable for any of the riders I know. Please convey this strongly to them but also suggest that the higher the mileage people can get out of the bike, the more they will sell up to 400 miles a charge. My work is 43 miles one way so this is out of the question for me.

Good questions on the charging Mydlyfkryzis and Hardware on the other questions.

Oh, one question would be how customizeable would the bike be? For example would it be possible if you buy the bike with a 150 mile battery that you could upgrade it to a 300 mile battery? (if these were available of course) If not, how could one supplement the extra power they need? Mount a battery behind the rider on the rear seat? In the space where the side bags would be?

[motoguy128]

I read the specs...

Ask them if they are considering offering an extended battery option.  Another 60lbs of battey would get the useable range close to the magic 100 miles mark.  Add some solar charging and you could commute aggressively and get the needed range.   That would still have the curb weight less than a a 600cc sportbike.

I did read about another biek having regenerative braking.  that is not mentioned, but it could easily increase your range in city riding.  I hear that it uses a 2 directional throttle.  If you twist forward, it applies regenerative braking propoertional to how far you twist...opposite of the throttle.

Ask them why they used a DC motor with brushes rather than an AC permenant magnet motor like Hybrid cars use.  I'm guessing that the DC motor and drive are about $1000 cheaper and still offer excellent torque at low RPM's, but the HP curve is very flat... meaning torque drops off very lineraly off idle.  Although torque normally falls off fast at higher RPM's.  Gearing will definitely dictate top speed.  Brushes are pretty easy to change.... and if they have open endshields on the motor, you should get a cool sparky lights show after dark.

[Bodhi]

From the Website:


14.2 KW Motor.
A really good solar cell can put out 1000 watts per square meter on a bright, cloudless day.

the bike has about a 60 mile range, 30 miles at high speed.

So using everything for your 50 mile commute, you will need about 14.2 hours to replenish it with a 1 kw solar cell. Of course, you can half that time with a 2 square meter cell.

So 2 square meter panel, plus the charger, you can recharge your electric bike in only 7.1 hours. Unless it is cloudy, raining or otherwise.

DD, here's a question.... What kind of outlet do you need for the charger (The high speed and built in)? 110V at what Amps? I doubt you can easily find over a 20 amps socket, with 10 and 15 amp sockets being the common ones.

Most of the panels I've seen put out about 200 watts for a 2.5 x 4 foot panel. I guess a small folding panel won't cut it. Those things can barely charge a cellphone battery. A better bet would be if there was an A/C outlet in the garage where I park and I could put it on my company's tab.

[Mydlyfkryzis]

Most of the panels I've seen put out about 200 watts for a 2.5 x 4 foot panel. I guess a small folding panel won't cut it. Those things can barely charge a cellphone battery. A better bet would be if there was an A/C outlet in the garage where I park and I could put it on my company's tab.

2.5*4 f oot is about a square meter.

My company is on an expense reduction kit. No water cooler, no more "free" coffee".  I doubt my company would want to pay for 10-12kw so I can get home.  

[Bodhi]

2.5*4 f oot is about a square meter.

My company is on an expense reduction kit. No water cooler, no more "free" coffee". I doubt my company would want to pay for 10-12kw so I can get home.  

Yeah, I hear that. My company started charging 50 cents for a cup of so-so coffee.    I have little doubt that some manager would see my bike plugged in and instead of admiring my initiative, would report me to security and I'd be warned not to do it.

[Magnarider]

I'm also another that's a bit skeptical about electric vehicles at this point, mostly because of the lack of range.  35-50 miles is a round trip to school, and if I hit any traffic I'd be a little worried...  How do they plan to remedy this, or what is in the works to extend battery life?  Also, looking at the suspension, they took the time to put inverted forks on it, but are still running a dual shock in the rear.  Why is that?  This should be quite interesting!

[phoenix]

I would like to know if it has some kind of throttle control / cruise control. With an electric motor and I assume not geared transmission, its going to feel weird and unfamiliar to maintain a steady speed.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Still compiling questions/concerns....  

[county]

Does it generate it's own power by braking like the hybrid cars?

Is it completely silent?

Tell me about the transmission or does it have one?

Is a lotta stuff "fragile" to reduce weight, i/e wheels?  

What's the life of the "battery" and how much does it cost to replace?  

[Mookie]

Can it wheelie?


/Very important question

[suzooker]

My Rant--

I would miss the sound of a gasoline powered engine.  The sound of going through the gears is a major factor that makes riding a motorcycle fun.  I don't think it would be the same without the beautiful sound that our bikes make.  Also, a quiet electric vehichle is very hazardous to pedestrians and inattentive drivers.  Part of your presence on the highway is the sound that your bike makes.  Now, I'm not the open-pipe, hell raising rider that just likes to make noise, but I do believe that part of the reason that I've never had a major accident on a bike for over 30 years is that I can be seen and heard.  I know that synthesized sound could be created to mimic a gas engine, but there's enough fake crap around us in this modern world already.  No, I'm not converting to electric anytime soon as the bikes we have now offer unbelievable performance for a reasonable asking price.  If it comes to paying $15 a gallon, I'll just march on down to the Kawi dealer and pick up a Ninja 250.  

[Scoop]

My Rant--

I would miss the sound of a gasoline powered engine.  The sound of going through the gears is a major factor that makes riding a motorcycle fun.  I don't think it would be the same without the beautiful sound that our bikes make.  Also, a quiet electric vehichle is very hazardous to pedestrians and inattentive drivers.  Part of your presence on the highway is the sound that your bike makes.  Now, I'm not the open-pipe, hell raising rider that just likes to make noise, but I do believe that part of the reason that I've never had a major accident on a bike for over 30 years is that I can be seen and heard.  I know that synthesized sound could be created to mimic a gas engine, but there's enough fake crap around us in this modern world already.  No, I'm not converting to electric anytime soon as the bikes we have now offer unbelievable performance for a reasonable asking price.  If it comes to paying $15 a gallon, I'll just march on down to the Kawi dealer and pick up a Ninja 250.  

You can put a card in the spokes.  

[02Tac]

 I do not see electric motorcycles as an if thing, but a when thing.  The big issue will be batteries and/or on board power such as a fuel cell type system.  I would expect brushless hub mount motors to be the most likely method of power in long term applications.

 I see elec motorcycles/scooters to be aimed at the commuter initially.  I would try one as my commute is a 7-10 miles (one) depending on the route I take.

 I would like one in a dual sport configuration. For the looks more than the actual dual sport aspect.

 Strange as it may seem, the RC sceen can show you many of the interesting innovations in the electric power area.  Brushless motors are amazing.  Lithium batteries provide loads of power with light weight.

 

[bajajoaquin]

I've actually been thinking about building my own electric car conversion and maybe a feet-forward motorcycle.

I have a 40-mile round trip commute, with a big hill at the work end. It's freeways both ways. So my questions would be:

1) What's "high speed?"
2) How much is it affected by hills?
3) How effective is a couple hours on the regular charger? I.e., if I'm right on the edge of range, will an hour or two plugged in be enough to get me home for a full charge?

[Magnarider]

You can put a card in the spokes.  

 

[Mydlyfkryzis]

I've actually been thinking about building my own electric car conversion and maybe a feet-forward motorcycle.

I have a 40-mile round trip commute, with a big hill at the work end. It's freeways both ways. So my questions would be:

1) What's "high speed?"
2) How much is it affected by hills?
3) How effective is a couple hours on the regular charger? I.e., if I'm right on the edge of range, will an hour or two plugged in be enough to get me home for a full charge?

My Guesses:

1) What's "high speed?" - Over 30 MPH, less than 60MPH

2) How much is it affected by hills? You can go 100 miles if it is all downhill, 10 miles if it is uphill  

3) How effective is a couple hours on the regular charger? I.e., if I'm right on the edge of range, will an hour or two plugged in be enough to get me home for a full charge? - According to the literature, fast charger is 1.5 hours, so if you live close and downhill, you will get home.

[Bodhi]

There are also hybrid bikes in development. http://www.ecycle.com/powersports/hybrid.htm

[toddrod]

How will the 'loud pipes saves lives' thing work? Actually suzooker mentioned what I was gonna say. I have heard some discussion on the local radio that some manufacturers of electric powered cars are working on some type of audio devices so that people can hear the vehicles as they approach. Maybe they have a response to this.

[ZED]

Looks neat.  I really like the looks of their electric motard too.  

One question I still have.  Does it have adjustable suspension?
Better suspension means less less energy wasted slowing for bumps and corners.

Look forward to the ride report DD.

[ZED]

After another review of the FAQ and battery list I came up with another question.  What is the cost of replacing the battery pack when it wears out?
They list the type of batteries used, and they list the costs of batteries in another section, but I don't see what the battery pack consists of so I can't calculate the cost.

Currently I see battery life (rather than range) may be the limiting factor.  They claim 200 to 500 charges.  If a person was to ride it to work most nice days, the battery would likely last little more than a year before replacement.  That could raise the cost of ownership.

Long term I think bikes like this and electric smart cars will be the norm as we are likely to get better and more efficient at generating electricity.

[motoguy128]

the battery life confused me.  I know there are Toyota Prius's on the road that are almost 10 years aold and as far as I know their battery packs are still functional, although they may be ready for replacement soon.  

I wonder if it's 500 cycles before capacity begins to deminish, and it's a slow downwards spiral from there.

[lizard]

How much do the optional windshield and luggage impact speed and range? Individually and combined.

Seems like they would adversely affect both, but would be useful if one really wanted to use this machine for commuter duty.

Edit: Also, is it street legal in the USA? Nearly all the dimensions are in metric units.

[CLAY]

 I do not see electric motorcycles as an if thing, but a when thing.  The big issue will be batteries and/or on board power such as a fuel cell type system.  I would expect brushless hub mount motors to be the most likely method of power in long term applications.

 I see elec motorcycles/scooters to be aimed at the commuter initially.  I would try one as my commute is a 7-10 miles (one) depending on the route I take.

 I would like one in a dual sport configuration. For the looks more than the actual dual sport aspect.

 Strange as it may seem, the RC sceen can show you many of the interesting innovations in the electric power area.  Brushless motors are amazing.  Lithium batteries provide loads of power with light weight.

  +1  I think we're a long ways from an electric bike (or car) being your *only* ride.  I commute 35 miles round trip, and I could certainly see myself on one of these for that.  I'd never give up the B12 for the hooliganism factor or the range with gas, but for commuting I'd be interested.  I see the range as the biggest drawback.

[shah269]

Compare it to a 250 Ninja.
If it's as much fun as a 250 Ninja they may survive.
It it's not as much fun and costs more then they are dead and pleas let them know that.
Causie / tree huggers tend not to listen to reason and expect you to do AB&C because they told you so.
In other words their market research on average suck bean kerd!

[CharlieBrown]

Ask if there is a way to add a 25 or 30 cc motor with a small half gallon or one gallon tank.  Something along the size of my weed eater.  After the electric battery has discharged, run the small motor as a generator to recharge.  Then you wouldn't need to worry about finding a plug outlet or need to wait overnight for the battery to recharge.  Something along the lines of Chevys Volt.

[HipGnosis]

SO when do we get to know what we want to know?!?!?

[Mrs. DantesDame]

SO when do we get to know what we want to know?!?!?

Hopefully soon  

I have 95% of it written out and am now waiting for confirmation from them on making sure that I'm understanding something correctly, then I just need to figure a way to wrap it up coherently!

[TuffguyF4i]

I don't see the appeal yet...but i can see how it is pretty cool that you could actually ride a bike that is totally silent while at a light....and zero heat/exhaust is produced.  That would be nice.  

How much juice does it take to fully recharge and how long does it take?

[Jeff N]

Hopefully soon  

I have 95% of it written out and am now waiting for confirmation from them on making sure that I'm understanding something correctly, then I just need to figure a way to wrap it up coherently!

Looking forward to it. It's an interesting subject and I know you'll do it proper, Dante.  

[shah269]

HAY! Here is a dumb one, ok say you are on your electric bike and your run out of power....what then?
I  mean do you walk hope? Not like you can get a recharge at the local gas station like with gas.
I mean sure you could find some one who will let you plug your bike into the grid but then what? Hang around for 10 hours for the thing to recharge? I don't know guys....this thing just doesn't hold any water when you start asking the hard questions.

[Jeff N]

It's why we're waiting for a report.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

thanks Jeff - that was a good one  

[shah269]

So are you thinking what I"m thinking?
That he is now pushing this new fangled electric bike back?

[Mrs. DantesDame]

So are you thinking what I"m thinking?
That he is now pushing this new fangled electric bike back?

 

your logic continues to evade me, shah....

[shah269]

 

your logic continues to evade me, shah....

As in he took the thing for a spin, ran out of power and is now pushing the bike back to the garage due to the inability to quickly and efficiently recharge the batteries.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

As in he took the thing for a spin, ran out of power and is now pushing the bike back to the garage due to the inability to quickly and efficiently recharge the batteries.

Where are you coming from? No one went out and ran out of power. If you're making up some hypothetical situation then that's something else, and is addressed in my forthcoming write up.

[JReazor]

say you are on your electric bike and your run out of power....what then?

I think the short answer is 'Don't do that'.

[shah269]

Where are you coming from? No one went out and ran out of power. If you're making up some hypothetical situation then that's something else, and is addressed in my forthcoming write up.

It's was a hypothetical. I was watching 60min last night and they were talking about the Tesla. A gorgeous car with one flaw....8 hours to recharge. So what do you if you get lost and you run out of power? Especially on an electric bike?

[Baz]

And I always seem to end up in the worst neighbourhoods too!

No place to plug in, no gun, I am not buying one ever.

[Hardware]

...I don't know guys....this thing just doesn't hold any water when you start asking the hard questions.

You're absolutely right Shah, the electric motorcycle doesn't hold any water...

[shah269]

You're absolutely right Shah, the electric motorcycle doesn't hold any water...

Well OK an pure electric one won't but a hydrogen fuel cell one may.
All I'm saying is that it's really a nice idea with many many draw backs!
And it's not an infrastructure issue it's a physics issue. You just can't recharge these things very fast. And god forbid you damage them!

[JReazor]

All I'm saying is that it's really a nice idea with many many draw backs!
And it's not an infrastructure issue it's a physics issue. You just can't recharge these things very fast. And god forbid you damage them!

I'll wait for Dante's report but my immediate feeling is that an electric is probably not for everyone or every situation. For the right person at the right price, on the other hand, it might make an ideal commuter/grocery getter. It wouldn't replace an internal combustion powered bike for touring or all day sport rides but I doubt that that is the target market. I could be wrong but I see the electric bike selling to the utility rider looking for inexpensive, efficient transportation rather then the typical motorcycle enthusiast.

[Baz]

I know of a fellow who sells electric scooters in Terrace BC.

They are a nice fit for that town for a run to the store etc. I believe he told me his had a top speed of 20 mph and about a 40 mile range. Charge overnight. It's the only transportation he uses for around town. In reality you can just about walk anywhere in Terrace in a half hour though.

No license required for his units.

[Scoop]

We have someone selling the same locally.  I think a great idea, as long as you understand the limitations and use it for what it is.  This is not a long distance tourer, except under very specific conditions (I say that, as it is inevitible that someone will tour cross country on an electric bike).  I think as long as the vehicle is reliable and operable within it's limitations, bring it on!

[HipGnosis]

When electric vehicles become popular, I'm sure there will be electric 'parking meters' that will dole out electricity by the quarter or dime.
Most logically at places people spend and hour or so, like restaurants.  Or they could turn on your meter from within when you order more than $5 of food.
It could choke the spread of fast-food...

[Mydlyfkryzis]

When electric vehicles become popular, I'm sure there will be electric 'parking meters' that will dole out electricity by the quarter or dime.
Most logically at places people spend and hour or so, like restaurants.  Or they could turn on your meter from within when you order more than $5 of food.
It could choke the spread of fast-food...

A quarter? a Dime?  A parking meter now takes more than that just to be allowed to park (In the Northeast, anyway).

Plus, waiting those 8 hours in the restaurant for your bike to recharge for the ride home will cost you as you spend 8 hours buying food. By the time the bike is recharged, you may way too much to ride home...

[Jes_VFR]

that's a good question, how much will rider weight effect the range. I mean above what most regular motorcycle manufacturers seem to plan for (as most of us are) and then if you add in my son or wife, it would seem fatal to the electric bike.
I mean how far will the bike go transporting about 450lb of rider, passenger and equipment at 65 to 70 mph???

It's not that I would not like to see something like this succeed, and I believe that someday it may, but right now it's not ready for the general public.

It needs to be bigger so that if can carry more rider, passenger and stuff.
It needs to be more powerful, since even burgmans are getting run over on I-95 these days.
It needs to have a real world range, something like 200 miles at 75 mph with passenger and luggage (with a moderate recharge time (like 8 hours) or 100 miles at 75 mph with a passenger and luggage (with a short recharge time like 1-1.5 hours).

That last point is going to create an infrastructure problem, because where is the average commuter going to get this thing recharged when they are away from home?

as others have stated, they are not going to get free electricity from the workplace.

Also what about the fact that it just shifts the fuel cost to your electric bill.

[shah269]

That's the thing,  you can't "quickly fill up" these LiPo batteries. They have a wonderful tendency to produce lots of heat and hydrogen which last I checked were two main ingredients in a bomb!
Oh and don't even think of puncturing one of these things! Holy mother of god they go up in flames! And not little let's make smores flames! I'm talking napalm type flames! The good stuff!
Ok maybe a turbine electric bike will work but an all electric bike? Thanks but well no thanks!

[Baz]

Please keep in mind that the majority of Power Plants burn coal. So your electric scooter will only make you feel good. You will still be indirectly spewing tons of carbon into the air.

[Hardware]

Good point Baz.  Too many "greenies" don't seem to get that fact.  Leonardo DiCaprio might feel all warm and fuzzy tooling around Beverly Hills in his Prius, but what about the overall carbon footprint created to build and ship the batteries for the car alone and then what about disposal/recycling at the end of the service life of the vehicle?

There's no magic bullet and basic scientific principles still apply - you can't get something for nothing.

I think we're a long way from a pure electric car/motorcycle that will be relevant to most working class people.  Hybrids have a lot more potential in the short/mid-term.

I think there might be commercial viability in a larger hybrid motorcycle.  A bank of batteries, small diesel engine, electric motors in the hubs (2-wheel drive), solar panels to assist in recharging, regenerative braking...

The diesel would kick in at highway cruising speeds.  The e-motors would propel it around town and during any aggressive acceleration (as long as there's enough charge).

The solar panels would draw power for the batteries whenever there's sufficient light.  Every application of the brakes would send some power to the batteries.

[shah269]

Lipos aren't too dirty to make and you can if after you discharged them just throw them away with the trash.
The only catch with LiPo's are that they aren't exactly stable. In that if they short out they have a tendency to catch fire and do all kinds of funky stuff.
The best solution I've seen so far and I really can't talk about it due to a pending patent was a method by which one could "grow" their own juice via carbon recapture.
Needless to say you know how your pool will turn green in about 5 seconds if your pump is off? Well imagine that green stuff powered by high carbon emissions from a coal burning plant and then further refined using waste heat from said coal power plant.
Now if you want to go 100% clean electric? Well our hydro plants are all topped out and running at 100% efficiency. We could go nuclear but then there is the issue of where do you put the waste material? And well....solar isn't very efficient and wind though a very elegant solution isn't for every one.
Long story short, if this idea of electric cars and bikes is to take off they need to go in and kill a few geeks and replace them with a few race engineers. Innovation comes from racing (CRASHCAR excluded). And perhaps threw racing a more efficient power cell could be developed.

[Jake Harsha]

Why does the bike say 'Boxer" on it when it clearly contains no engine, boxer or otherwise?

[spinmaster]

Ok maybe a turbine electric bike will work but an all electric bike? Thanks but well no thanks!

This is the format I've always wondered about.  The biggest draw back to a internal combustion isn't that it uses gas....it's that it uses it so inefficiently.

A turbine on the other hand is very efficient.  In fact, if you use it to drive a generator, use the generator to charge batteries and high amp capacitors, and use those to then drive an electric motor you might have something that is 2-3 times more efficient than the best gas IC engines out there to day.  And it runs on gas.

If everyone reduced their gasoline intake by 50 to 65%....that’s a big part of the problem solved.

But....are these numbers right?  Would it cost less to make?  And would the components (turbine, batteries, and capacitors) last for 65k to 100k like a current IC?

Shaw, go find a government project building this type of system and get back to use.

[Hardware]

This is the format I've always wondered about.  The biggest draw back to a internal combustion isn't that it uses gas....it's that it uses it so inefficiently.

A turbine on the other hand is very efficient.  In fact, if you use it to drive a generator, use the generator to charge batteries and high amp capacitors, and use those to then drive an electric motor you might have something that is 2-3 times more efficient than the best gas IC engines out there to day.  And it runs on gas.

If everyone reduced their gasoline intake by 50 to 65%....that’s a big part of the problem solved.

But....are these numbers right?  Would it cost less to make?  And would the components (turbine, batteries, and capacitors) last for 65k to 100k like a current IC?

Shaw, go find a government project building this type of system and get back to use.

Turbines have to be built from extremely high grade materials, run at very high rpms and high temperatures.  I remember riding in a Bell Long Ranger once and the pilot explained that after we landed, their company policy was to let the turbine run at idle speed for four minutes to let it cool properly.  

They are also best suited to running at a constant speed - so having one connected to a generator might be the better application.  

Then there's issues with the exhaust.  Apparently Jay Leno's turbine bike has melted the grill on a car stopped too closely behind him in traffic.

Add up the turbine + generator + batteries + capacitors + e-motor + exhaust issues = high costs + serious packaging/engineering challenges.

[shah269]

Shaw, go find a government project building this type of system and get back to use.

Ge I don't know....maybe the M1 main battle tank!
Or the latest generation of light infantry vehicles?
Or the new Hummer that has been proposed?
Or.....any locomotive since what? 1960?
Turbine electrics are a well proven technology, and are very very sexy!
Think of it, the sound of that turbine coming up to speed when you turn your bike on!
And it wouldn't even have to be a big turbine. A little one no bigger than say a coffee mug would produce enough power.
Also the exhaust gases can be diverted to the front of the rear wheel so as to clean and dry the road as you ride!

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Please note that I have posted up my preliminary article for you wolves to have some fun with. It should answer a few of your questions, but please let me know if I missed something obvious.


And remember: they're making a commuter right now, not a sport-tourer  

[ZED]

I'm still waiting on a Mr. Fusion for my vehicle power needs...
...

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that too.  Hopefully I'll find out about it a bit before everyone else too so I can sell my conventional energy investments first.

[ZED]

Please note that I have posted up my preliminary article for you wolves to have some fun with. It should answer a few of your questions, but please let me know if I missed something obvious.


And remember: they're making a commuter right now, not a sport-tourer  

Thanks for the preview DD.  

I didn't see anything about front suspension adjustability.  Is it adjustable, or fixed?

I think the idea's great for a commuter, but for the varying sizes of riders I think you'd need a fair range of adjustment.  I suppose there's always a fork swap as an option, but what a PIA on a new bike.  I await the final report.  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Thanks for the preview DD.  

I didn't see anything about front suspension adjustability.  Is it adjustable, or fixed?

I think the idea's great for a commuter, but for the varying sizes of riders I think you'd need a fair range of adjustment.  I suppose there's always a fork swap as an option, but what a PIA on a new bike.  I await the final report.  

Don't wait too long - this is actually fairly close to the final. I'm just covering my butt and saying that it'll need to be tweaked. I'll see what I can find out about the front shocks though....

[ZED]

 

[M.Brane]

 No cost of ownership comparison to say a EX250 or other similar bike?

 Even a WAG would be good. Shouldn't be too hard to come up with a ballpark figure based on projected costs. Just something to sway a potential buyer other than the fact that it's quiet, and clean.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

 No cost of ownership comparison to say a EX250 or other similar bike?

 Even a WAG would be good. Shouldn't be too hard to come up with a ballpark figure based on projected costs. Just something to sway a potential buyer other than the fact that it's quiet, and clean.

Well, $7/month for electricity vs say... $4/gal at 70mpg, 40 miles a day. It's late. I'll do the maths later...

[Mephistopheles]

Chrysler did a lot of research on turbine cars and much of that showed turbines were not efficient enough...at low altitudes and high ambient air temps, and with the technology of the 60's and 70's.

Hell, they came to it late.

GM was doing it as early as the 30's and built cars in the 50's

Check out the sweet pages about the projects...

http://www.conklinsystems.com/firebird/



/ I know I geeked out, I have had this page bookmarked for ages, and never needed it, until now!

[Mydlyfkryzis]

I don't believe we had turbine technology until late in WWII...

1918 - General Electric company started a gas turbine division. Dr. Stanford A. Moss developed the GE turbosupercharger engine during W.W.I. It used hot exhaust gases from a reciprocating engine to drive a turbine wheel that in turn drove a centrifugal compressor used for supercharging.

1920 - Dr. A. A. Griffith developed a theory of turbine design based on gas flow past airfoils rather than through passages.

1930 - Sir Frank Whittle in England patented a design for a gas turbine for jet propulsion. The first successful use of this engine was in April,

1937. His early work on the theory of gas propulsion was based on the contributions of most of the earlier pioneers of this field.
        The specifications of the first jet engine were:

         Airflow = 25 lb/s
         Fuel Consumption = 200 gal/hr or 1300 lb/hr
         Thrust = 1000 lb
         Specific Fuel consumption = 1.3 lb/hr/lb

1936 - At the same time as Frank Whittle was working in Great Britain, Hans von Ohian and Max Hahn, students in Germany developed and patented their own engine design. 1939 (August) - The aircraft company Ernst Heinkel Aircraft flew the first flight of a gas turbine jet, the HE178.

1941 - Sir Frank Whittle designed the first successful turbojet airplane, the Gloster Meteor, flown over Great Britain. Whittle improved his jet engine during the war, and in 1942 he shipped an engine prototype to General Electric in the United States. America's first jet plane was built the following year.

1942 - Dr. Franz Anslem developed the axial-flow turbojet, Junkers Jumo 004, used in the Messerschmitt Me 262, the world's first operational jet fighter.