Electric Motorcycles - what do you want to know?

[Hardware]

...I don't know guys....this thing just doesn't hold any water when you start asking the hard questions.

You're absolutely right Shah, the electric motorcycle doesn't hold any water...

[shah269]

You're absolutely right Shah, the electric motorcycle doesn't hold any water...

Well OK an pure electric one won't but a hydrogen fuel cell one may.
All I'm saying is that it's really a nice idea with many many draw backs!
And it's not an infrastructure issue it's a physics issue. You just can't recharge these things very fast. And god forbid you damage them!

[JReazor]

All I'm saying is that it's really a nice idea with many many draw backs!
And it's not an infrastructure issue it's a physics issue. You just can't recharge these things very fast. And god forbid you damage them!

I'll wait for Dante's report but my immediate feeling is that an electric is probably not for everyone or every situation. For the right person at the right price, on the other hand, it might make an ideal commuter/grocery getter. It wouldn't replace an internal combustion powered bike for touring or all day sport rides but I doubt that that is the target market. I could be wrong but I see the electric bike selling to the utility rider looking for inexpensive, efficient transportation rather then the typical motorcycle enthusiast.

[Baz]

I know of a fellow who sells electric scooters in Terrace BC.

They are a nice fit for that town for a run to the store etc. I believe he told me his had a top speed of 20 mph and about a 40 mile range. Charge overnight. It's the only transportation he uses for around town. In reality you can just about walk anywhere in Terrace in a half hour though.

No license required for his units.

[Scoop]

We have someone selling the same locally.  I think a great idea, as long as you understand the limitations and use it for what it is.  This is not a long distance tourer, except under very specific conditions (I say that, as it is inevitible that someone will tour cross country on an electric bike).  I think as long as the vehicle is reliable and operable within it's limitations, bring it on!

[HipGnosis]

When electric vehicles become popular, I'm sure there will be electric 'parking meters' that will dole out electricity by the quarter or dime.
Most logically at places people spend and hour or so, like restaurants.  Or they could turn on your meter from within when you order more than $5 of food.
It could choke the spread of fast-food...

[Mydlyfkryzis]

When electric vehicles become popular, I'm sure there will be electric 'parking meters' that will dole out electricity by the quarter or dime.
Most logically at places people spend and hour or so, like restaurants.  Or they could turn on your meter from within when you order more than $5 of food.
It could choke the spread of fast-food...

A quarter? a Dime?  A parking meter now takes more than that just to be allowed to park (In the Northeast, anyway).

Plus, waiting those 8 hours in the restaurant for your bike to recharge for the ride home will cost you as you spend 8 hours buying food. By the time the bike is recharged, you may way too much to ride home...

[Jes_VFR]

that's a good question, how much will rider weight effect the range. I mean above what most regular motorcycle manufacturers seem to plan for (as most of us are) and then if you add in my son or wife, it would seem fatal to the electric bike.
I mean how far will the bike go transporting about 450lb of rider, passenger and equipment at 65 to 70 mph???

It's not that I would not like to see something like this succeed, and I believe that someday it may, but right now it's not ready for the general public.

It needs to be bigger so that if can carry more rider, passenger and stuff.
It needs to be more powerful, since even burgmans are getting run over on I-95 these days.
It needs to have a real world range, something like 200 miles at 75 mph with passenger and luggage (with a moderate recharge time (like 8 hours) or 100 miles at 75 mph with a passenger and luggage (with a short recharge time like 1-1.5 hours).

That last point is going to create an infrastructure problem, because where is the average commuter going to get this thing recharged when they are away from home?

as others have stated, they are not going to get free electricity from the workplace.

Also what about the fact that it just shifts the fuel cost to your electric bill.

[shah269]

That's the thing,  you can't "quickly fill up" these LiPo batteries. They have a wonderful tendency to produce lots of heat and hydrogen which last I checked were two main ingredients in a bomb!
Oh and don't even think of puncturing one of these things! Holy mother of god they go up in flames! And not little let's make smores flames! I'm talking napalm type flames! The good stuff!
Ok maybe a turbine electric bike will work but an all electric bike? Thanks but well no thanks!

[Baz]

Please keep in mind that the majority of Power Plants burn coal. So your electric scooter will only make you feel good. You will still be indirectly spewing tons of carbon into the air.

[Hardware]

Good point Baz.  Too many "greenies" don't seem to get that fact.  Leonardo DiCaprio might feel all warm and fuzzy tooling around Beverly Hills in his Prius, but what about the overall carbon footprint created to build and ship the batteries for the car alone and then what about disposal/recycling at the end of the service life of the vehicle?

There's no magic bullet and basic scientific principles still apply - you can't get something for nothing.

I think we're a long way from a pure electric car/motorcycle that will be relevant to most working class people.  Hybrids have a lot more potential in the short/mid-term.

I think there might be commercial viability in a larger hybrid motorcycle.  A bank of batteries, small diesel engine, electric motors in the hubs (2-wheel drive), solar panels to assist in recharging, regenerative braking...

The diesel would kick in at highway cruising speeds.  The e-motors would propel it around town and during any aggressive acceleration (as long as there's enough charge).

The solar panels would draw power for the batteries whenever there's sufficient light.  Every application of the brakes would send some power to the batteries.

[shah269]

Lipos aren't too dirty to make and you can if after you discharged them just throw them away with the trash.
The only catch with LiPo's are that they aren't exactly stable. In that if they short out they have a tendency to catch fire and do all kinds of funky stuff.
The best solution I've seen so far and I really can't talk about it due to a pending patent was a method by which one could "grow" their own juice via carbon recapture.
Needless to say you know how your pool will turn green in about 5 seconds if your pump is off? Well imagine that green stuff powered by high carbon emissions from a coal burning plant and then further refined using waste heat from said coal power plant.
Now if you want to go 100% clean electric? Well our hydro plants are all topped out and running at 100% efficiency. We could go nuclear but then there is the issue of where do you put the waste material? And well....solar isn't very efficient and wind though a very elegant solution isn't for every one.
Long story short, if this idea of electric cars and bikes is to take off they need to go in and kill a few geeks and replace them with a few race engineers. Innovation comes from racing (CRASHCAR excluded). And perhaps threw racing a more efficient power cell could be developed.

[Jake Harsha]

Why does the bike say 'Boxer" on it when it clearly contains no engine, boxer or otherwise?

[spinmaster]

Ok maybe a turbine electric bike will work but an all electric bike? Thanks but well no thanks!

This is the format I've always wondered about.  The biggest draw back to a internal combustion isn't that it uses gas....it's that it uses it so inefficiently.

A turbine on the other hand is very efficient.  In fact, if you use it to drive a generator, use the generator to charge batteries and high amp capacitors, and use those to then drive an electric motor you might have something that is 2-3 times more efficient than the best gas IC engines out there to day.  And it runs on gas.

If everyone reduced their gasoline intake by 50 to 65%....that’s a big part of the problem solved.

But....are these numbers right?  Would it cost less to make?  And would the components (turbine, batteries, and capacitors) last for 65k to 100k like a current IC?

Shaw, go find a government project building this type of system and get back to use.

[Hardware]

This is the format I've always wondered about.  The biggest draw back to a internal combustion isn't that it uses gas....it's that it uses it so inefficiently.

A turbine on the other hand is very efficient.  In fact, if you use it to drive a generator, use the generator to charge batteries and high amp capacitors, and use those to then drive an electric motor you might have something that is 2-3 times more efficient than the best gas IC engines out there to day.  And it runs on gas.

If everyone reduced their gasoline intake by 50 to 65%....that’s a big part of the problem solved.

But....are these numbers right?  Would it cost less to make?  And would the components (turbine, batteries, and capacitors) last for 65k to 100k like a current IC?

Shaw, go find a government project building this type of system and get back to use.

Turbines have to be built from extremely high grade materials, run at very high rpms and high temperatures.  I remember riding in a Bell Long Ranger once and the pilot explained that after we landed, their company policy was to let the turbine run at idle speed for four minutes to let it cool properly.  

They are also best suited to running at a constant speed - so having one connected to a generator might be the better application.  

Then there's issues with the exhaust.  Apparently Jay Leno's turbine bike has melted the grill on a car stopped too closely behind him in traffic.

Add up the turbine + generator + batteries + capacitors + e-motor + exhaust issues = high costs + serious packaging/engineering challenges.

[shah269]

Shaw, go find a government project building this type of system and get back to use.

Ge I don't know....maybe the M1 main battle tank!
Or the latest generation of light infantry vehicles?
Or the new Hummer that has been proposed?
Or.....any locomotive since what? 1960?
Turbine electrics are a well proven technology, and are very very sexy!
Think of it, the sound of that turbine coming up to speed when you turn your bike on!
And it wouldn't even have to be a big turbine. A little one no bigger than say a coffee mug would produce enough power.
Also the exhaust gases can be diverted to the front of the rear wheel so as to clean and dry the road as you ride!

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Please note that I have posted up my preliminary article for you wolves to have some fun with. It should answer a few of your questions, but please let me know if I missed something obvious.


And remember: they're making a commuter right now, not a sport-tourer  

[ZED]

I'm still waiting on a Mr. Fusion for my vehicle power needs...
...

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that too.  Hopefully I'll find out about it a bit before everyone else too so I can sell my conventional energy investments first.

[ZED]

Please note that I have posted up my preliminary article for you wolves to have some fun with. It should answer a few of your questions, but please let me know if I missed something obvious.


And remember: they're making a commuter right now, not a sport-tourer  

Thanks for the preview DD.  

I didn't see anything about front suspension adjustability.  Is it adjustable, or fixed?

I think the idea's great for a commuter, but for the varying sizes of riders I think you'd need a fair range of adjustment.  I suppose there's always a fork swap as an option, but what a PIA on a new bike.  I await the final report.  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Thanks for the preview DD.  

I didn't see anything about front suspension adjustability.  Is it adjustable, or fixed?

I think the idea's great for a commuter, but for the varying sizes of riders I think you'd need a fair range of adjustment.  I suppose there's always a fork swap as an option, but what a PIA on a new bike.  I await the final report.  

Don't wait too long - this is actually fairly close to the final. I'm just covering my butt and saying that it'll need to be tweaked. I'll see what I can find out about the front shocks though....